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Staff No conspiracy theories or fringe content on the Politics board

ManaByte

Gold Member
Jun 10, 2004
31,163
38,056
2,470
California
manabyte.com
Just checking if talk about Lizard People and Flat Earth is OK?

If you're stupid enough to think the Earth is flat, there's a containment thread for you:
 

Halo is Dead

Member
May 20, 2018
6,653
11,897
770
Just checking if talk about Lizard People and Flat Earth is OK?
Idiot! Only crab people are acceptable for discussion!

 

QSD

Member
Nov 8, 2020
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RNK

Member
Jan 22, 2013
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Because conservatives preserve free speech and open debate. This means that some people will speak their conspiracies.

Also because conservatives have been pushed to the fringe of society, and progressives clap for it.

Also because conservatives have watched this process in other countries in the past 100 years, a marginalization of a culture's conservative beliefs paired with a frenetic progressive push to install new values and norms.

So it's natural to come to the conclusion that "no conspiracy" will disproportionately silence conservatives more than progressives, in the same way that "no books" would disproportionately affect literate people and not illiterates.

Progressives only seem to believe in conspiracies that have firm backing of corporations and politicians, which by definition aren't really conspiracies.
This is just ridiculous. Nobody is trying to silence conservative voices. Nobody is trying to ban conservative beliefs. They're simply trying to remove the platform for people who have pledged an undying loyalty to an unhinged lunatic former president that has preached conspiracy and fraud about one of our most sacred traditions. What our country was founded on.

Do you think if Trump hadn't claimed the election was rigged ad nauseam and then proceed to whip his followers into a frenzied march on the capitol, he would have been banned from those services? If that were the case, he would have been kicked off them long before the 6th, when he was making unfounded and damaging allegations day after day. No, he was removed because he was viewed as a threat. His followers are being removed because they are viewed as a threat as well. Both are warranted as far as I'm concerned.

This notion that the conservative voice is being silenced is just plain wrong. Removing dangerous people from having a platform is more than justified. The only voices being silenced are the dangerous ones, and I have absolutely no problem with that.
 
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Ornlu

Member
Oct 31, 2018
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This is just ridiculous. Nobody is trying to silence Islam. Nobody is trying to ban Muslim beliefs. They're simply trying to remove the platform for people who have pledged an extremist ideology that has preached violence about our most sacred traditions. What our country was founded on.

Do you think if muslims hadn't claimed the US was evil and then proceed to whip their followers into a frenzied attack on the twin towers, they would have been banned from flying? If that were the case, they would have been kicked off them long before the 6th, when they were making unfounded and damaging allegations day after day. No, they were removed because they were viewed as a threat. Their followers are being removed because they are viewed as a threat as well. Both are warranted as far as I'm concerned.

This notion that the Muslim voice is being silenced is just plain wrong. Removing dangerous people from having a platform is more than justified. The only voices being silenced are the dangerous ones, and I have absolutely no problem with that.

That took a lot less work than I thought to morph that into the worst of the 2002-2006 right wing anti-muslim stuff that was thrown around so frequently after 9/11. I really didn't have to change any tone or intent at all, just switched the names and a lot of "he" to "they". :messenger_beermugs:
 

The Hamburglar

but get my takes from clown world with Ronald
Mar 6, 2016
3,508
2,561
800
EviLore EviLore man you've done a good thing here - despite support from many, its a shame some have decided to suicide, troll and hurl abuse at you, rather than openly discuss it, which is now bleeding in to many different threads.

Unfortunately, many can't see the real issues or the big picture and are feigning ignorance or trying to argue about double standards. Off the top of my head a few nutjob threads spring to mind. The left wing conspiracy's to invade the capitol to make Trump look bad; woman who was fatally shot staged (again left wing conspiracy) and that communist British government trying to chemically poison population.. Two of these literally had NOTHING to back them up, was just ramblings and pictures from twitter..

One of the main reasons these kind of threads were being frequently entertained is because the lunacy had been normalised. The nutjobs would post these kind of threads and of course non-nutjobs would argue against. However, the so called moderate conservatives or 'just normal conservatives with normal conservative values' would routinely enter these threads and not discredit the lunacy, but instead quote and personally insult or throw whataboutism at people who called out the insane fud. When so called normal people won't call out insanity, but would rather insult people that do, then that is legitimising lunacy. These same posters have not taken the change well and have ended up account suiciding, while others are talking about double standards.

Now you've got some people dying on their sword saying they're leaving the site because they're seeing something that isn't there. TO some this change has turned into a personal attack on conservative beliefs - Reality is you're being asked not to post unsubstantiated claims (such as the election vote, Trump has months to prove it now), and nut job conspiracy theories. As mentioned above some of these people (not all) were happy not to post the conspiracy nonsense, but happy to cheer it on, which is why they're so upset now.

Going to put an example in perspective - Imagine owning a website that contain lots of nonsense content or in this case threads such as "Woman who stormed capital and fatally shot in the neck, was a set up" - That is alex jones tier content. Now imagine the nutjobs who believe this garbage, need to search for answers on the internet so they google it. Now imagine all the fringe website and forums that host that content coming up. Imagine GAF coming up along side them and realise why one of the reasons EL doesn't want GAF to be associated with that.
 

Shmunter

Member
Aug 25, 2018
7,069
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Tricky. I guess a “conspiracy” thread tag was considered and didn’t pass muster?
 
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DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
29,277
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USA
dunpachi.com
Dude, I've been on this forum since the late 90's. You can kindly F off with your alt bs. You are just proving my point.
You made no point at all. All your history with this site and you can't handle playful ribbing? lol okay

In my short time here, I've seen a lot of posters return to tell us all about how the forum really is, but if you're not really participating I dunno what to tell you. Either you're a lurker, in which case enjoy the show, or you're an alt of someone else's account. That's not a GAF thing, that's how forums go.
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
May 4, 2005
16,429
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You made no point at all. All your history with this site and you can't handle playful ribbing? lol okay

In my short time here, I've seen a lot of posters return to tell us all about how the forum really is, but if you're not really participating I dunno what to tell you. Either you're a lurker, in which case enjoy the show, or you're an alt of someone else's account. That's not a GAF thing, that's how forums go.
Or he just returned, e.g. because he took a time off forums, or felt uncomfortable here earlier or any number of other reasons.
 

Smaug

Member
Jun 10, 2004
87
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You made no point at all. All your history with this site and you can't handle playful ribbing? lol okay

In my short time here, I've seen a lot of posters return to tell us all about how the forum really is, but if you're not really participating I dunno what to tell you. Either you're a lurker, in which case enjoy the show, or you're an alt of someone else's account. That's not a GAF thing, that's how forums go.
I speak when I have something to say, not for some forum cred. The point being that I have seen this forum cycle several times ideologically and I suspect a new cycle is at hand and we all saw where the last cycle ended.
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
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Or he just returned, e.g. because he took a time off forums, or felt uncomfortable here earlier or any number of other reasons.
Do you have sources for these theories? :pie_thinking:

I speak when I have something to say, not for some forum cred. The point being that I have seen this forum cycle several times ideologically and I suspect a new cycle is at hand and we all saw where the last cycle ended.
Okay. Thanks for sticking around to try to make it better.
 
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Goro Majima

Kitty Genovese Member
Sep 2, 2007
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Going to put an example in perspective - Imagine owning a website that contain lots of nonsense content or in this case threads such as "Woman who stormed capital and fatally shot in the neck, was a set up" - That is alex jones tier content. Now imagine the nutjobs who believe this garbage, need to search for answers on the internet so they google it. Now imagine all the fringe website and forums that host that content coming up. Imagine GAF coming up along side them and realise why one of the reasons EL doesn't want GAF to be associated with that.

That’s definitely a concern most likely.

Another concern is that far right conspiracy theorists just got deplatformed across the entire internet and they’re going to be looking for places to retreat to. I doubt GAF wants to be one of those places.

I speak when I have something to say, not for some forum cred. The point being that I have seen this forum cycle several times ideologically and I suspect a new cycle is at hand and we all saw where the last cycle ended.

EviLore EviLore was a victim of cancel culture so to suggest that this forum will essentially revert into Era 2.0 is laughable. I don’t see us swinging that far to the left as long as the far left continues to be associated with their own brand of insanity.
 

Redneckerz

Those long posts don't cover that red neck boy
Jun 25, 2018
3,753
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Stuck in 1Q84.
Damn, some of y'all are really losing your minds over not being able to post demonstrably false, harmful bullshit anymore huh?
The best course of action is to not post in Politics at all.

I mean i could also talk about how the Dutch Cabinet might fall this week too.

Probably not half as interesting, but hey, there you go.

I won't though, Politics is such an everyday thing that what happens today will happen somewhere again tomorrow. Its the talk of the day.

Which is great. Personally i don't want to be swamped in discussions regarding that (Same with Covid-19).

US citizens can and will see this differently ofcourse.
 

gioGAF

Member
Jun 14, 2011
1,693
567
775

Hi everyone. We've had a relaxed moderation style for a while now on Politics, but in light of recent events at the Capitol, we'll no longer be tolerating fringe content or conspiracy theories on the Politics forum. It could previously be looked at as fun and games, but now there's no way to justify its presence here in any quantity. Keep it to mainstream sources and positions. That also goes for "sacred landslide" stolen election conspiracies.

Thanks.
This is unfortunate. Keeping it to mainstream sources and positions limits the type of discussion that the internet allows us to have in the first place (those that aren't represented in the mainstream). I understand that some level of moderation is needed to keep things in line (perhaps also to avoid backlash from other sources as well, after all this is a business), but nuking the clown world thread seems a bit much. It was fun and games.

There are always people that commit criminal acts, seems like an adult should be able to distinguish what is fact and what is fiction or entertainment.
 
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NickFire

Member
Mar 12, 2014
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Although I am very worried for the future of free speech on the internet, I do not seen any evidence that people are being banned here for taking conservative positions. The rule seems simple enough and easy to follow based on the exchange of ideas that continue in this board. Not that it matters, and not trying to derail the thread, but I do think there is a wide canyon between protecting free speech and forcing every message board to allow anything. There has to be a middle ground if people can learn to work together to find solutions to how polarized everything has become.
 

Thaedolus

Gold Member
Jun 9, 2004
11,736
6,050
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This is unfortunate. Keeping it to mainstream sources and positions limits the type of discussion that the internet allows us to have in the first place (those that aren't represented in the mainstream). I understand that some level of moderation is needed to keep things in line (perhaps also to avoid backlash from other sources as well, after all this is a business), but nuking the clown world thread seems a bit much. It was fun and games.

There are always people that commit criminal acts, seems like an adult should be able to distinguish what is fact and what is fiction or entertainment.
Most adults tend to be just older children and should be treated appropriately.
 

Slings and Arrows

Formerly 'Boswollocks'
Apr 19, 2019
9,377
15,449
780
Away with the fairies
What if the direction that social media companies are taking, is the wrong direction for smaller sites?

What if, small businesses shutting down due to lockdown, is similar to small-medium websites losing traffic and forcing them offline? Neither of those outcomes are intentional but are just a consequence of the necessary?

I hope that doesn't come off as a conspiracy, i'm genuinely wondering if small sites can survive a drop in users?
 

strange headache

Fluctuat nec mergitur
Jan 14, 2018
2,065
8,788
825
Hi everyone. We've had a relaxed moderation style for a while now on Politics, but in light of recent events at the Capitol, we'll no longer be tolerating fringe content or conspiracy theories on the Politics forum. It could previously be looked at as fun and games, but now there's no way to justify its presence here in any quantity. Keep it to mainstream sources and positions. That also goes for "sacred landslide" stolen election conspiracies.

Thanks.

I'd just like to voice my support for this new moderation policy.

Over these past few months, GAF's Overton window shifted so far to the right that I didn't feel comfortable participating anymore. When I joined this forum after the split, the majority of the remaining members were disgruntled leftists who refused to share the reductive views of their own side, rather opting for a nuanced approach to hot button issued such as Trump, identity politics and metoo. Most of us found ourselves stuck between a rock and a hard place, criticizing the far-left attack on enlightenment values but also rejecting far-right populism. We had people from all over the political spectrum, but debate remained friendly, rational and for the most part grounded in facts.

Over the past few months, more and more Trump supporters joined and pretty much monopolized the whole politics section. I got called a "pompous fedora wearing neckbeard" on numerous occasions for simply trying to maintain a high level of discourse. It had gotten to the point where each and every leftist found himself subjected to a constant stream of ridicule and derision. After a while I just stopped participating in political discussions altogether because there was simply no point in confronting the tight-knit cabal of Trump supporters who were circle-jerking each and every topic.

Don't ask for "receipts" just to send me on a wild goose chase, I don't have time for that. The general direction the politics section was slowly evolving should be obvious enough. At the beginning I thought that maybe I was just imagining things, but after a little break and taking a bit of a distance from this forum it became pretty apparent to me.

The U.S. population used to take pride in the intellectual tradition of its magnificent presidents, nowadays it celebrates ignorance and stupidity for the sake of partisan politics and it makes me sad. When I joined this forum, I felt like we had something special here, a place to practice healthy debate and well-informed discussion, unfortunately the constant influx of conspiracy theories, populist narratives, crappy vojak and pepe memes pretty much ruined that possibility.

It is not that I can't deal with opposing views and opinions, my posting history should be testament to that. What I find hard to stomach is anti-intellectualism, pride in being ignorant and blatant misinformation and yes the far-right is just as guilty of doing this as the far-left. That being said, there is a big difference between tolerating opposing views and being part of a community. I really don't feel the need to associate myself with a forum that peddles conspiracy bullcr*p, far-right populism and race-based thinking. If I wanted that, I'd just pick a far-left community. At the same time it is not my place to meddle with forum moderation and I also don't believe that communities have to cater to my specific preferences, so all I could really do is keep my distance and observe from afar.

Feel free to criticize the far-left for their lack of self-awareness, but over these past few weeks it became painfully obvious that the far-right isn't any better. No amount of finger-pointing at the opposing side is going to hide that fact and I found it really worrisome to what extent people were willing to make excuses just to avoid criticizing their own side.

I have faith in EviLore EviLore and his moderation team and I knew that sooner or later they would need to pull the handbrake if they wanted to prevent this forum to slip too far to the other side again. The ban on fringe political content is a necessary reaction to keep this board centered by disallowing extremist views to take hold. I'm also sure that the moderation teams takes no pleasure in banning people which is easily demonstrated by their saintly patience and leniency. I think that EviLore is taking his responsibility extremely seriously in that regard especially in view of his own experiences in the past. These measures are here to prevent that history repeats itself and I'm glad to see that this community knows when enough is enough.

All of you, take care :)
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
May 30, 2004
28,642
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Cheers strange headache strange headache . We're also pushing back against personal attacks and hateful rhetoric to restore that environment you appreciated. It'd be easy to say that politics is inherently divisive and heated, and leave the standards lower than they are on the other sections of GAF, but I'd rather take on the challenge of raising the standards to a uniform level. Our users shouldn't move from tab to tab on GAF and then recoil in disgust when they get to the Politics tab.
 

Ornlu

Member
Oct 31, 2018
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I appreciate the thought and care you conveyed with your post; unfortunately I disagree and think you are a bit off the mark in this case. People are getting banned for discussing things recently declared taboo, not just for what was previously considered bad behavior.

I liked a quote of yours from a couple of weeks ago in the ban thread:

Policing the boards does not necessarily result in higher quality of discussion when said policing is wrongly applied. I think the implosion of this forum in the past would have clearly demonstrated this. If quality of discussion is your concern, then why do some regulars often get a free pass for their sh*tposting and edgy humor while others are undeservedly punished for a comment that's far less inflammatory?

Best wishes to everyone.