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Staff No conspiracy theories or fringe content on the Politics board

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showernota

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the thread
 

Redlight

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Who gets to decide which ones are 'fuckin stupid'?

It's the unpopular opinions that need protection, not the popular ones.
I was a tad offhand with that comment. :)

I actually agree that people should be able to voice their opinions, even the nutty ones. It's good to see them exposed and challenged. I mean, Netflix has a bunch of bullshit 'documentaries' about UFO's, ghosts and all kinds of conspiracy garbage, should they be banned? What about books? I can still buy 'Mein Kampf' if I want to (quite rightly).

They say that sunlight is the best disinfectant and I personally believe that open discussion is the best way to battle extremism. Closed groups that won't allow dissent are where the craziest stuff gets traction.

It's becoming complicated though, I think that sites like GAF have a perfect right to limit what people talk about, it's a private concern, strong moderation has always been a feature and there are alternatives.

However when companies like Facebook and Twitter limit who can talk, and about what, then we're drifting into dangerous territory. Those very large companies have become near monopolies and are so central to many people that they're almost akin to utilities like light and power.

Guidelines about 'allowable' speech should be set by governments and implemented by private companies with an independent appeal process, 'TOS' rules be damned.
 
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Zog

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I was a tad offhand with that comment. :)

I actually agree that people should be able to voice their opinions, even the nutty ones. It's good to see them exposed and challenged. I mean, Netflix has a bunch of bullshit 'documentaries' about UFO's, ghosts and all kinds of conspiracy garbage, should they be banned? What about books? I can still buy 'Mein Kampf' if I want to (quite rightly).

They say that sunlight is the best disinfectant and I personally believe that open discussion is the best way to battle extremism. Closed groups that won't allow dissent are where the craziest stuff gets traction.

It's becoming complicated though, I think that sites like GAF have a perfect right to limit what people talk about, it's a private concern, strong moderation has always been a feature and there are alternatives.

However when companies like Facebook and Twitter limit who can talk, and about what, then we're drifting into dangerous territory. Those very large companies have become near monopolies and are so central to many people that they're almost akin to utilities like light and power.

Guidelines about 'allowable' speech should be set by governments and implemented by private companies with an independent appeal process, 'TOS' rules be damned.
Those big companies exert control over smaller companies like Amazon did with Parler and I wonder if that happened on this forum.
 

Zefah

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Jan 7, 2007
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How is this rule even tenable EviLore EviLore when half the users here base half of their posts on conspiracy theories they refuse to actually provide any evidence for or address any arguments against in a meaningful way? The entire world is plotting against Trump.. the FBI is basically a wing of the Democrats, blah blah blah.. it's mind numbing lol

Good luck dude.. putting this area on ignore personally.

What do you want? More bans? CNN/NYT source requirements?
 
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Redlight

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Those big companies exert control over smaller companies like Amazon did with Parler and I wonder if that happened on this forum.
Now your drifting into the kind of conspiracy theory stuff we're not allowed to talk about.

Except to say that your claim is bullshit.
 

showernota

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I wonder if you might be a conspiracy nut.
Evilore already cleared this up, but don’t pretend like this is something completely unheard of. That’s pretty disingenuous. I’d imagine this type of thing could escalate in the near future as well.

 
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highrider

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So, culling of conservative leaning members. I understand. I’m getting messages pretty frequently from other members asking me to join the discord because a forthcoming ban is inevitable. Very disheartening to see Crypto get banned, one of the most well read and intelligent guys on this forum.

I’ve been here a decade and I’m not an account suicide type, I have nothing but love for GAF, only forum I ever liked. I still remember vividly being finally accepted on here using some paid email from my mom’s work at the time. Sincerely wish the best to everyone that’s been here. King of Foxes I’m sorry I got pissed at you that one time you’re a solid dude. 🤛

At the end of the day this forum lives on new people coming in, and an older, conservative gamer probably doesn’t belong anymore. If anyone needs to get in touch with me David Creyke, I’m very easy to find on purpose.

But I’m done. Peace out everyone, I’d rather leave uneventfully than get banned going off on some fool 🤘
 
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EviLore

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If the Politics section were deleted outright would you make the same decision? Because this is just one section of the site, and you normally post all over. Seems unnecessary to leave GAF over the guidelines update, and you aren't a big conspiracy theory poster either afaik. A lot of people are really keyed into politics right now, but after the inauguration things will most likely settle down and you may not be as emotionally invested in it.

You’re not going to be culled for being a conservative, and you weren’t on the verge of being banned, highrider highrider .
 

Shmunter

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Aug 25, 2018
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So, culling of conservative leaning members. I understand. I’m getting messages pretty frequently from other members asking me to join the discord because a forthcoming ban is inevitable. Very disheartening to see Crypto get banned, one of the most well read and intelligent guys on this forum.

I’ve been here a decade and I’m not an account suicide type, I have nothing but love for GAF, only forum I ever liked. I still remember vividly being finally accepted on here using some paid email from my mom’s work at the time. Sincerely wish the best to everyone that’s been here. King of Foxes I’m sorry I got pissed at you that one time you’re a solid dude. 🤛

At the end of the day this forum lives on new people coming in, and an older, conservative gamer probably doesn’t belong anymore. If anyone needs to get in touch with me David Creyke, I’m very easy to find on purpose.

But I’m done. Peace out everyone, I’d rather leave uneventfully than get banned going off on some fool 🤘
Don’t be ridiculous, the only criteria needed for this site is tolerance and to not be an insufferable asshat. Who cares what your politics are, as long as they don’t negatively affect the 1st two points.
 
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Redlight

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Feb 5, 2014
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So, culling of conservative leaning members. I understand. I’m getting messages pretty frequently from other members asking me to join the discord because a forthcoming ban is inevitable. Very disheartening to see Crypto get banned, one of the most well read and intelligent guys on this forum.

I’ve been here a decade and I’m not an account suicide type, I have nothing but love for GAF, only forum I ever liked. I still remember vividly being finally accepted on here using some paid email from my mom’s work at the time. Sincerely wish the best to everyone that’s been here. King of Foxes I’m sorry I got pissed at you that one time you’re a solid dude. 🤛

At the end of the day this forum lives on new people coming in, and an older, conservative gamer probably doesn’t belong anymore. If anyone needs to get in touch with me David Creyke, I’m very easy to find on purpose.

But I’m done. Peace out everyone, I’d rather leave uneventfully than get banned going off on some fool 🤘
There is no culling. If not being able to post unhinged and unsupported nonsense is reason for you to leave then that's on you, not GAF.
 
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Relativ9

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If the Politics section were deleted outright would you make the same decision? Because this is just one section of the site, and you normally post all over. Seems unnecessary to leave GAF over the guidelines update, and you aren't a big conspiracy theory poster either afaik. A lot of people are really keyed into politics right now, but after the inauguration things will most likely settle down and you may not be as emotionally invested in it.

You’re not going to be culled for being a conservative, and you weren’t on the verge of being banned, highrider highrider .

I'm not a conspiracy guy either, heck I'm not even conservative, and I don't agree that the new policy update is "culling" conservative members. I am personally not being effected by the policy update and I have no intention of leaving or never posting again or anything (not that I'm a huge contributor or anything). But I do understand why some people are concerned, I think it would go a long way if you EviLore EviLore acknowledge that the new policies is an imperfect solution to a problem which more than being about "dangerous ideas" is about the soul of the forum and not wanting it to be overrun by fringe elements. Like I said in an earlier post, I'd like to think that everyone here is sophisticated enough in their thinking to realize when someone is full of shit and won't be seduced by the "dark side". This is your platform, you own it, and if I owned it I also wouldn't want it to be overrun by that type of poster either. But given the history of the forum, I can see why a lot of people would go "censorship? FUCK THIS THEN!"... for that reason I have a feeling a lot of the people now banned or soon to be banned don't actually believe in any of that conspiracy nonsense, but are just so upset by the idea of people being censored for their beliefs (no matter how misguided they are) that they are committing account suicide or shitposting. I don't know, I'm mixed, some of the stuff is definitely ban worthy, but on the other side, the sensitivity with which the rules are applied is a bit too reminiscent of "the great sundering"...there has to be room for being wrong and getting corrected before the banhammer comes down, surely?

I'll re-suggest having some dedicated fact-check mods who will inject links and debunks into user posts that make BS claims.
 
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Rentahamster

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Jun 26, 2007
44,796
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So, culling of conservative leaning members. I understand. I’m getting messages pretty frequently from other members asking me to join the discord because a forthcoming ban is inevitable. Very disheartening to see Crypto get banned, one of the most well read and intelligent guys on this forum.

I’ve been here a decade and I’m not an account suicide type, I have nothing but love for GAF, only forum I ever liked. I still remember vividly being finally accepted on here using some paid email from my mom’s work at the time. Sincerely wish the best to everyone that’s been here. King of Foxes I’m sorry I got pissed at you that one time you’re a solid dude. 🤛

At the end of the day this forum lives on new people coming in, and an older, conservative gamer probably doesn’t belong anymore. If anyone needs to get in touch with me David Creyke, I’m very easy to find on purpose.

But I’m done. Peace out everyone, I’d rather leave uneventfully than get banned going off on some fool 🤘
You're overreacting. Noone is being culled for being a conservative. Don't get caught up in a groupthink chicken little scenario.
 

Ornlu

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Don’t be ridiculous, the only criteria needed for this site is tolerance and to not be an insufferable asshat. Who cares what your politics are, as long as they don’t negatively affect the 1st two points.

I agree; it would be nice for that to be the rules. Can we implement that? :messenger_heart:
 
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SF Kosmo

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Jul 7, 2020
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So, culling of conservative leaning members. I understand. I’m getting messages pretty frequently from other members asking me to join the discord because a forthcoming ban is inevitable. Very disheartening to see Crypto get banned, one of the most well read and intelligent guys on this forum.

I’ve been here a decade and I’m not an account suicide type, I have nothing but love for GAF, only forum I ever liked. I still remember vividly being finally accepted on here using some paid email from my mom’s work at the time. Sincerely wish the best to everyone that’s been here. King of Foxes I’m sorry I got pissed at you that one time you’re a solid dude. 🤛

At the end of the day this forum lives on new people coming in, and an older, conservative gamer probably doesn’t belong anymore. If anyone needs to get in touch with me David Creyke, I’m very easy to find on purpose.

But I’m done. Peace out everyone, I’d rather leave uneventfully than get banned going off on some fool 🤘
It's interesting to me that people feel like the conspiracy thing is inseparable from their broader worldview, like if you can't believe conspiracies you can't be conservative. It feels like an unintentionally scathing indictment of conservatism itself.

I understand distrust of the media, distrust of the government, and I certainly understand skepticism and consider myself an ardent skeptic. But I think it's important to understand that conspiracies aren't born out of skepticism.

A skeptic asks to be convinced. A conspiracist convinces himself. The conspiracists will accept anything and everything that affirms an existing belief or deeply held narrative and reject anything that does not. Believing conspiracies doesn't make a person skeptical, it makes a person gullible.

Believing in conservative values doesn't require believing in conspiracies.
 
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nyr88nyg

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Lotta people crying about how a private entity does business. If you don’t like it, leave. I implore the same to everyone using big tech.
 

nyr88nyg

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Cheers @strange headache . We're also pushing back against personal attacks and hateful rhetoric to restore that environment you appreciated. It'd be easy to say that politics is inherently divisive and heated, and leave the standards lower than they are on the other sections of GAF, but I'd rather take on the challenge of raising the standards to a uniform level. Our users shouldn't move from tab to tab on GAF and then recoil in disgust when they get to the Politics tab.


I wish people were more civil when it comes to politics as well. But I don’t see that as a gaf problem, it’s a real world problem.
 
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EviLore

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I wish people were more civil when it comes to politics as well. But I don’t see that as a gaf problem, it’s a real world problem.
No doubt. We're at the low point for baselines of political civility in my lifetime. Most platforms are increasingly enforcing a political monoculture, so it seems like it's only going to get worse.
 

Rentahamster

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Jun 26, 2007
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No doubt. We're at the low point for baselines of political civility in my lifetime. Most platforms are increasingly enforcing a political monoculture, so it seems like it's only going to get worse.
Yup. As long as the algorithms prioritize engagement and click through rate without regard to quality of content, these self reinforcing echo chambers aren't going to go away anytime soon. Being an asshole to score political points that increases one's clout and monetization potential while being cheered on by smoothbrain dickriders is an alluring siren song that even otherwise civil people can be seduced by. The psychological impact is subtle in the beginning, yet very consequential in the long term. When the most rewarding trigger for a Pavlovian response is to be a dick on the internet, well, we can see where that leads.
 

Ornlu

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Yup. As long as the algorithms prioritize engagement and click through rate without regard to quality of content, these self reinforcing echo chambers aren't going to go away anytime soon. Being an asshole to score political points that increases one's clout and monetization potential while being cheered on by smoothbrain dickriders is an alluring siren song that even otherwise civil people can be seduced by. The psychological impact is subtle in the beginning, yet very consequential in the long term. When the most rewarding trigger for a Pavlovian response is to be a dick on the internet, well, we can see where that leads.

One need only look at the Ban/Review thread to see an example of the bolded. Lots of people get their graves tapdanced on by people who apparently didn't like them for years.
 
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