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[Version 3.0]

Since the Wii arrived, the logical excuse for its lack of downloadable demos has been that they'd be too large to reasonably manage in its internal storage: you'd only be able to download a few before you'd run out of space.

I've always considered that a shame, since a lot of Wii games really need to be tried to see if they're worth purchasing--moreso than games on other consoles, I think. Nintendo also constantly said this about the Wii, back before it became such a phenomenon.

Well, anyway, now the lack of space is nullified. Wii Ware and the Nintendo Channel nullified it. If we can have full games available for purchase that take up a large portion of the available storage, then there's no reason we can't have demos of the same size. And the Nintendo channel has DS demos available, so there's also no reason to think Nintendo is against having demos.

The Wii obviously should have a larger storage solution. But even without one, it should have downloadable demos, just like the competition.

 

[akachan ningen]

They're probably worried that people will just play the demos and not buy the real game, which would be a shame because nintendo is hurting for money.

That's probably why they only let you play the demos on the Brawl disc for like 30 seconds. pieces of shit.

 

[TrueReligion]

There's No HDD. I bet 1 demo wouldn't even fit in the internal storage. :lol

 

[Narag]

There's No HDD. I bet 1 demo wouldn't even fit in the internal storage. :lol

This. The downloadable games really aren't that large unless you're suggesting we roll with 40MB demos.

 

[Version 3.0]

There's No HDD. I bet 1 demo wouldn't even fit in the internal storage. :lol

Why would you assume a demo would be significantly larger than a full WiiWare game?

 

[Jiggy]

At the absolute least, nobody can argue a "but it won't fit" stance against the idea of having demos of the WiiWare games themselves. And those very much should be happening.

 

[Lee N]

Dr. Mario Online Rx has a demo.

 

[jooey]

No excuse for the Wii not to have demos

interesting theory.

 

[Slavik81]

I'm not sure I understand what has actually changed about the Wii that now makes a lack of demos unacceptable. Everything that's changed has been changed by Nintendo. It's not as if prior to now it was out of their control. Should it not have always either have been excusable or have always been unimportant?

Either way, the need for demos is overblown. I play a lot of demos, but I practically never buy games for which I play the demos. It's far more interesting to play a new game knowing nothing about it besides that people think it's good and watching a few trailers. My knowledge of B and C-level Wii games is therefore a little bit sparser, but it hardly affects anything important (like what games I choose to buy).

 

[Jiggy]

Dr. Mario Online Rx has a demo.

I'm not sure if you're trying to refute the thread or agree with it--but whatever the case, the fact that one game has a demo definitely leads to the conclusion that having more is in the realm of possibility.

 

[Version 3.0]

I'm not sure I understand what has actually changed about the Wii that now makes a lack of demos unacceptable. Everything that's changed has been changed by Nintendo. It's not as if prior to now it was out of their control. Should it not have always either have been excusable or have always been unimportant?

Either way, the need for demos is overblown. I play a lot of demos, but it never affects my purchasing decision because I practically never buy games for which I play the demos. It's far more interesting to play a new game knowing nothing about it besides that people think it's good and watching a few trailers.

What has changed is just that the obvious reasoning that they wouldn't fit well was faulty, if only because we underestimated Nintendo's stupidity.

And your use (or lack thereof) of demos hardly refutes the reasoning to have them. I rarely buy a game because of a demo, but it does happen. And there are a lot of Wii games I certainly will not buy without trying them first.

 

[Windu]

512mb of space, with only half of that useable for stuff. I think thats a big excuse, although a dumb one considering we should have more storage anyway.

 

[Narag]

What has changed is just that the obvious reasoning that they wouldn't fit well was faulty, if only because we underestimated Nintendo's stupidity.

I guess the question is how big do you expect demos to actually be?

 

[fernoca]

Just because there are classic emulated games or actually new games on the console, doesn't mean that there can also be long demos..

Remember that there's a limit on WiiWare for up to 43MB. Virtual Console games also seem to have the same limit, mostly since it seems that each VC game constains it's own emulator explaining the...bloated filze size in many cases..

Depending on the game, a demo can be at least between 50-100MB..that basically is 50% of the internal memory of the Wii..IF you don't have anything else on it.

At the same time, demos are usually one (maybe two) time experience..so there's no problem in playing a demo and then deleting it; but then again..you have people around here complaning that the 80GB on their PS3s are not enough for all the demos, all the music, all the pictures, all the..shit ..they have on it....geeze..

 

[SapientWolf]

Why would you assume a demo would be significantly larger than a full WiiWare game?

Even a one level demo of Mario Galaxy would probably take up several hundred MB.

 

[DongHungLong]

Ummm if they put out demos of third party games the real games wouldn't sell lol. Wanna use a shovelware reference but will refrain... Believe me I would have never bought CoD3 or the medal of honor game had I known how horrible they are. Haven't touched my Wii since. Damn Zelda game... If not for Twilight Prince I wouldn't have even bought a Wii.

 

[Lee N]

I'm not sure if you're trying to refute the thread or agree with it--but whatever the case, the fact that one game has a demo definitely leads to the conclusion that having more is in the realm of possibility.

I'm saying that the Wii does not not have demos (double negations, yay).. clearly it has happened, and maybe they'll do it again if the whole demo thing is successful.

They can see exactly who downloaded a demo - and how many of them bought the full version after that.

 

[reminder]

Why would you assume a demo would be significantly larger than a full WiiWare game?

Most PS3/360 demos are much bigger than full PSN/XBLA games.

 

[Slavik81]

What has changed is just that the obvious reasoning that they wouldn't fit well was faulty, if only because we underestimated Nintendo's stupidity.

The only games that got demos have been Wiiware titles. It's always been incredibly obvious that downloadable titles could have demos. After all, the probability that the demo would be bigger than the game is exceedingly slim.

But I see nothing that speaks to the technical feasibility of retail game demos having changed. Only the maximum game data size policy seems to have changed and it could have been fixed at any time. After all, it's only policy. It's not like the technical limitations of the console have actually changed.

And is technical feasibility even a valid excuse? After all, Nintendo designed the console hardware in the first place. If it can't handle demos because of a hardware limitation, that's still Nintendo's fault and they should not be given any extra leeway on the subject.

 

[frAntic_Frog]

That's probably why they only let you play the demos on the Brawl disc for like 30 seconds. pieces of shit.

is that really true....if so.....damn thats even more retarded than i thought

 

[Barrett2]

Most games you would be interested in downloading demos for wouldn't even fit onto the internal storage of the Wii. There is a huge difference in size between tiny Wiiware games and a full-on retail demo.

 

[D.Lo]

Hmm, you're probably right, PSP has demos that are as small as 10 megs.

Always thought demos are a bad idea for all but very niche games that need the exposure though. Many great games take an hour to get into, so a 5 minute demo would do more harm then good.

A racing game demo with one track would be a good idea though. Though it would still likely be 50-100 megs if it were a good game using the Wii's power fully.

 

[robor]

Didn't Iwata acknowledge the necessity of a HDD for the Wii recently? Maybe they'll unveil something at E3, perhaps even a new channel for game demos....

 

[Artofwar420]

Put yourself in Nintendo's place, you can find a hell of a lot of excuses not to get a hard drive solution.

They make shit tons of money right now. That's it.

 

[Version 3.0]

Most PS3/360 demos are much bigger than full PSN/XBLA games.

That's because full PSN/XBLA games have a size limit imposed.

There is a huge difference in size between tiny Wiiware games and a full-on retail demo.

I checked out several notable demos from my Playstation 2 discs, here's what I found:

Okami: 159 MB
Black: 157 MB
Beyond Good & Evil: 57 MB
Metal Arms: 139 MB
Prince of Persia: SoT: 326 MB
Metal Gear Solid 3: 629 MB
Shadow of the Colossus: 650 MB
Sly Cooper: 103 MB
Guitar Hero 2: 209 MB
Soul Calibur II: 145 MB
Final Fantasy X: 743 MB

Obviously, some of these would not fit, but many would. Also, we're not quite comparing apples to apples, since the PS2's architexture is very different from the Wii's. While it's possible the Wii would use larger, higher quality assets (hope springs eternal), I think Wii demos might actually be smaller due to its more advanced tech. The PS2 doesn't use texture compression, for example, but the Wii does.

 

[neight]

The PS2 may not have had hardware texture compression but it still compressed textures through software.

Edit: Eh, or something like that. I found this thread about PS2 texture compression on B3D. http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=25827

One thing's for certain, the PS2 did compress textures.

 

[Easy_D]

Only way the Wii would have demos would be through demo discs. But I'd be fine with that.
I'd even considering buying the dumb official magazines for the demos :/'


Demo discs = awesome.

 

[woobit]

Only way the Wii would have demos would be through demo discs. But I'd be fine with that.
I'd even considering buying the dumb official magazines for the demos :/'


Demo discs = awesome.

They could (should!) make demo discs and sell them online. I'd buy. I think

 

[hirokazu]

Yes there is:

There's No HDD. I bet 1 demo wouldn't even fit in the internal storage. :lol

For people saying "Oh, WiiWare is under 50MB, why can't demos be squeezed into such a size? Well, WiiWare is designed with the constraint in mind. Demos would have to be branched off the full game and then cut down as much as possible, it's probably not worth it. It would really depend on the game whether it can be made to fit or not.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Downloadable trailers would make a lot more sense.

The Metroid Prime channel was almost a smart concept.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Well, anyway, now the lack of space is nullified. Wii Ware and the Nintendo Channel nullified it. If we can have full games available for purchase that take up a large portion of the available storage, then there's no reason we can't have demos of the same size.

"Entire small games can fit in a few dozen megabytes if they're designed to." does not necessarily lead to "Making demos for disc-based games that fit in a few dozen megabytes would be a negligible task."

Also, considering how much of a bother it can be to shuffle things around to download a new game I plan on playing for hours, I probably wouldn't bother trying many demos for games I wasn't already pretty sure about.

 

[hc2]

I've always considered that a shame, since a lot of Wii games really need to be tried to see if they're worth purchasing--moreso than games on other consoles, I think. Nintendo also constantly said this about the Wii, back before it became such a phenomenon.

It may hurt their sales to have folks see exactly what the majority of games on the Wii offer. :lol

 

[MisterHero]

I really really want Nintendo Power to start coming with demos.

I'd resubscribe for that.

 

[bigswords]

I really really want Nintendo Power to start coming with demos.

I'd resubscribe for that.

Oh..oh noes you just made a few more Nintendo execs more happier.

But honestly to buy a mag with Nintendo reviews and demo... well Nintendo power might really become power again.

 

[Fuzzy]

I really really want Nintendo Power to start coming with demos.

I'd resubscribe for that.

So would I. The last time I had a subscription was for the Zelda disc.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I really really want Nintendo Power to start coming with demos.

I'd resubscribe for that.

Boggles my mind why they never did this.

It obviously didn't make sense with the N64, but there was no excuse once the Gamecube rolled around and it makes even more sense with the Wii.

 

[GC|Simon]

I don't understand why people want demos. Okay, you can play a game before release. But i don't want to play a Super Mario Galaxy before it's release. I think this would be destroy that wow effect.

 

[nny]

I don't understand why people want demos. Okay, you can play a game before release. But i don't want to play a Super Mario Galaxy before it's release. I think this would be destroy that wow effect.

Not every game is Super Mario Galaxy; maybe you would like to check how some games are before making the decision of buying or not? Specially with Wii software, where the implementation of the wiimote can be really hit or miss.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I don't understand why people want demos. Okay, you can play a game before release. But i don't want to play a Super Mario Galaxy before it's release. I think this would be destroy that wow effect.

But Galaxy is a game that most (MOST) people don't need to try before they buy.

Some people might be more skittish on, say, Trauma Center and hesitant to plop down money for it. It's not really a "buy before you try" game and people that are likely to try it and hate it will more than likely be the people who wouldn't buy it without trying it, anyway.

Another good example is DQ Swords. As far as I personally know, it's a near-launch primitive waggle game that finished development before all the good games really came out and learned no new lessons. It's possible I could love it as much as I love The World Ends With You, but I'm not going to risk $50 or subscribe to Gamefly to find out.

 

[Speevy]

I'm in the camp of people who doesn't want to buy another large Wii game until they have a storage solution.

It's a shame, really. Nintendo came up with one of the better ideas for digital distribution (the Virtual console), and limits everyone's ability to enjoy it.

 

[Fafalada]

The PS2 doesn't use texture compression, for example, but the Wii does.

Contrary to popular Urban Myths - pretty much every PS2 game used compressed textures, and above all - the assets are usually additionally compressed on discs to reduce load times.

The reason those demos are so large is because they shipped on discs - there was no reason to think about space usage, they took the path of minimum resistance. They could easily have been made MUCH smaller if they needed to be - see most PSP demos.

 

[hirokazu]

Downloadable trailers would make a lot more sense.

The Metroid Prime channel was almost a smart concept.

Although the videos are not downloadable, Nintendo Channel already serves this purpose.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Although the videos are not downloadable, Nintendo Channel already serves this purpose.

Does it? I've never gotten around to downloading it.

My fridge is full with stuff I still frequently play.

 

[hirokazu]

Does it? I've never gotten around to downloading it.

My fridge is full with stuff I still frequently play.

Yeah, well the resolution is kinda shitty, the videos look like YouTube quality. If I were you, I'd just keep those games handy rather than allocate space for it.

 

[Starchasing]

Nintendo is not forcing demos on companies. That doesnt mean that a company are not allowed to release demos.

If there is demand there will be demos

 

[Zedsdeadbaby]

'there is no excuse, yes yes I know that it has tiny storage dammit but I'm going to ignore that white elephant there'

 

[Haunted]

One of XBLA's best features is that every arcade game has a demo.

I'd like to see the same for Wiiware games.

 

[Gagaman]

Can't we just have demo discs on the cover of the Nintendo magazine, or something? You know, like how we used to always get demos that everyone seems to have already forgot about?

 

[Starchasing]

Remember that there's a limit on WiiWare for up to 43MB.

I think there is no 43 mb rule.

I read somewhere that it was only a recomendation. In theory you could make a wiiware that could fill the whole wii memory

 

[VicViper]

Can't publishers just disguise their demos as free WiiWare stuff?