Yeah I replied before seeing the video, my bad. At first I was thinking about the sight tracing you need for the thousands of stars, that if you'd compute what could be seen over such long distances you'd simply cripple any CPU. But seeing their gridbased LOD calculating I guess you could have some kind of radial cutoff point and have every planet within that area at single dot LOD. Still seems like an enormous memory hog to keep all those generated planets in memory while you are walking around on the planet. I think it's more likely that the skybox turns into an actual skymap when you shoot through the atmosphere.
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No Man's Sky info from Game Informer
- Thread starter JehutyRunner
- Start date
Yeah I replied before seeing the video, my bad. At first I was thinking about the sight tracing you need for the thousands of stars, that if you'd compute what could be seen over such long distances you'd simply cripple any CPU. But seeing their gridbased LOD calculating I guess you could have some kind of radial cutoff point and have every planet within that area at single dot LOD. Still seems like an enormous memory hog to keep all those generated planets in memory while you are walking around on the planet. I think it's more likely that the skybox turns into an actual skymap when you shoot through the atmosphere.
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
It all sounds amazing, yet I remain sceptical.... I wish I wasn't so pessimistic these days!
Basically the starmap is just fancy way to show list of seeds. You don't actually travel that distance in any way. The game only generates relatively small areas at once. The actual high resolution land generation starts only when you are closer to the surface. It's still not even certain that the space-planet surface transition is actually seamless.
I'm wondering what you mean by this, since we've already seen it about what, 7 times now over the 4 gameplay trailers and they've explained in depth exactly how they are doing that?
It's probably like that and you can actually go from space from surface directly and the lod system handles the rest. Technically that's very simple and many games have done it already.
But I have only seen the videos displaying the transition with "zoom" effect or there has been a layer of opaque cloud before the "planet map" loads. Maybe i haven't just looked close enough.
What you are talking about is the transition from space to atmosphere, in which there is a red "heat" distortion, and occasionally a brief moment where you go through clouds - if you fly through a cloud. You don't always go through clouds.
The game doesn't really load a "planet map" which is the main reason it can be seamless. It just becomes more detailed as you approach it because you are in fact just the point of view of a decimal place travelling along a number. From far away, the planet looks like 1.0. When you hit the atmosphere, you can see that it's actually 1.03413. Same thing, just more detail.
MemoryHumanity
Member
See this is what I don't get. It's procedurally generated, right? So when I arrive on a planet, everything is just randomly spawned as it enters the draw distance.
So if I then leave that planet and come back to it later, it will be completely different again, or no?
So if I then leave that planet and come back to it later, it will be completely different again, or no?
Any Questions
Member
Am kinda hoping you can dive in and out of this game as well as stay submerged for hours on end. New things to do etc etc keeping it fresh while you journey into the centre. Will see...either way nothing gets pre-ordered. EVER.
I have and it's fantastic!
Dirtyshubb
Member
Notsureiftrollpost.jpg
Okay, everyone else should try Space Engine then.
I think what's going on with the zoom effect you were talking about earlier is the planets are relatively small. Like the average in the trailers is probably around Mercury-sized, so it seems like you're getting through the atmosphere too quickly.
Also, a couple of the later trailers has a space-to-ground transition without any clouds, and there's some of the inevitable Lod popping (or scaling, or whatever he wants to call it). It's nowhere near as bad as Space Engine, but it's there.
CarbonFire
Member
The only "random" element is time, which is probably the second seed that is used to generate animal/robot/ship placement. Now obviously time isn't random, but it gives the appearance of randomness so that the world doesn't always generate in exactly the same when you go places.
If there were no time variable, then every ship, robot and animal would always generate in exactly the same position if you return to a particular spot in the universe.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
No. The initial mathematics are obviously randomly generated and then these computations are used to procedurally generate the planet. Once that equation is saved the same equation will result in exactly the same planet on returning and it's the same for anyone else who visits the planets you discover.
Icyflamez96
Member
I'm not sure where this common misconception comes from. Sean said that things you do will be saved on your local system, but it wont be shared to others unless it's significant.
Haunted
Member
The changes will be stored for you, locally, or if large enough (I'd assume significant changes to a planet like terraforming or destroyed terrain would count for that) in the coordinates/formula that is then used to calculate the look of the planet for the next passer-by.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
I would imagine that would just change the algorithm and so would be there when you return. They did say they've been selective with this though.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
No. It's procedural, not random. You could say that it's pseudo-random, as there are definitely random number generators involved, but those RNGs base their output on a predetermined seed (basically just a long number that serves as the base for all calculations) that's the same for everyone. This means that although there are "random" things, it's always the same "random" every time. Given a certain point in the universe, the mathematical functions that generate the world will always give the same output. So that planet will be exactly the same the next time you (or someone else, for that matter) go there.
Games like Minecraft work the same way. If you travel far away from your starting point, that area will literally not exist anymore. It will just be thrown away as you leave it. But it will be there again when you go back. Not because it was saved somewhere (unless you changed it by digging or something, in which case those changes are of course stored), but because the same stuff is always pseudo-randomly generated the same way given a certain location in the world.
The algoritms won't change (even a tiny change in a complex procedural algorithm can change the end result dramatically). What they'll do is save your changes (the holes you made by blowing stuff up, etc) locally, and the next time you go back there the game will generate the planet the same way as always (untouched), and then apply the stored changes to the generated result.
CarbonFire
Member
I was under the impression that Minecraft (at least at one point) stored all chunk data. That's why you can "pre-seed" a world with generated terrain and have it show up in game. And also why exploring new areas (especially quickly) is slower and experiences more pop-in than exploring already generated areas. But maybe they changed the way Minecraft handles chunk storage since the 1.0 release?
It seems like NMS save sizes would get quickly out of hand if they had to store all terrain deformation info on the local client. Especially if you just went around blowing up terrain all the time (which I'm sure some people will do).
King Cobra
Banned
But what exactly do you DO in this game?
jk, I am mega hyped for this. They are sitting on something that could be industry changing if it lives up to everything they have been showing.
jk, I am mega hyped for this. They are sitting on something that could be industry changing if it lives up to everything they have been showing.
tfur
Member
I am starting to think it's a next-gen version of a wat do synthesizer.
He also said that it is indeed posible to completely wreck an ecosystem (which would have consequences and attract the attention of the "ennemy"), and said wreck would then be impacted onto the game itself for everyone.
Not sure why anyone would want to do this, but I am also sure that it'll happen, and a lot too.
macfoshizzle
Member
Can't wait.. when is it coming out??
Icyflamez96
Member
who wouldn't want to wreck an ecosystem tbh
So much confusion. This is going to disappoint so many people.
Right now it's just "2015".
Right now it's just "2015".
Monkey_Plunkett
Member
That video was great! Really looking forward to this, and no, I dont know what I have to/am going to do in this game either but I guess when i get there im gonna do whatever I feel like doing and go where the wind takes me.
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
Here is the information I am still waiting for: WHEN IS THE DAMN RELEASE WINDOW?
SPACECADET
Member
after burning out on destiny, i'm itching for this.
IAmRandom31
Banned
I keep having this thought pop up into my head about how they could add a FTL type adventure into the offline mode and how incredible that sort of thing could be.
Just take out the ship management from FTL but keep the perma-death, the random events that occur throughout your trip, the hazards in space that you may run into, the hostile aliens you run across and the general sense of " anything can happen on any next move ". With how this game is structured, I could see a scenario like:
The game puts you on a random planet on a random solar system in a random spot of the galaxy. You are given a general idea of where to go to reach the center of the universe. Your first task will be, just like in the normal game, gather resources to upgrade your suit and build up your ship to give you the ability to travel and to survive the more hostile regions of space. The different suits could be like, an Oxygen suit allowing you to survive underwater. A suit made from volcanic rock that allows you to survive harsh temperature fluctuations that may occur on some planets. A suit that survives harsh cold weather. Things of that nature. Ships could also have unique special abilities like. One ship may be extremely powerful but light on armor and doesn't warp far. So you can be worry free of being raided by pirates, but you'll be trudging through the galaxies at a snails pace, with each move adding just another possibility of some really bad ( or really good ) random event occuring to throw you off pace and off course. Some ships could be heavy in cargo space, allowing you to bring along a ton of extra resources with you. Other ships could be specially fitted to survive harsh space conditions. Some ships could be best suited for intergalactic travel across massive distances.
As you begin your journey, you can only warp. So you have to carefully plan your next move through the galaxy. Some parts of the universe will be far more hazardous then others. Some with electromagnetic disturbances that could destroy your ship in the middle of a warp, tossing you into a random direction and crashing you onto any random planet that may be in the universe. You don't know what may be on the planet you land on. Could be a paradise world full of lush life and just an insanely rich ecosystem. Or it could be a nightmare world, full of lush life and an insanely rich ecosystem but filled with ultra aggressive carnivores fighting for supremacy over the food chain. You just being another meal to be had.
Since the whole journey to the center is perma-death. You are constantly in a battle to stay alive. Constantly in a struggle to keep your ship together so you can keep doing warps closer and closer to the center, but the trials and tribulations becoming more and more harrowing the closer you get. You'll have moments of supreme triumph as a warp is lucky and you land on a planet with a super powerful ship that can blast other ships to pieces in moments and warp you hundreds of light years into the right direction, or you could warp into a mess. Something that gets you killed, forced to try again and think back on what went wrong.
See where I'm going with the idea? With the way the game is built, putting different modes like this offline could be doable and could be extremely fun and challenging and rewarding and epic to SHARE.
Truth be told. With everything we do know about the game up to this point. This could be where Murray is headed in the gameplay realm anyway. For example when you head into one of those pillars that warps you to another pillar on another planet, you have no clue whatsoever what is on the other side. Could be riches and spoils, could be a giant dinosaur staring you in the grill with its mouth open. And you will also be without a ship or resources at that point.
The reward to reaching the center? Communion. The center is this Garden of Eden like Galaxy of thousands of stars that is almost like a playground for the players who manage to reach this point. Perhaps with a central hub type solar system where players can land and communicate and see other players flying around up in the stars or whatever. This being the only spot where players can see each others names. So perhaps you can at this point gather together a dozen bodies and head off into the galaxy together to go find riches and danger and just see what is out there. But do it together.
Just take out the ship management from FTL but keep the perma-death, the random events that occur throughout your trip, the hazards in space that you may run into, the hostile aliens you run across and the general sense of " anything can happen on any next move ". With how this game is structured, I could see a scenario like:
The game puts you on a random planet on a random solar system in a random spot of the galaxy. You are given a general idea of where to go to reach the center of the universe. Your first task will be, just like in the normal game, gather resources to upgrade your suit and build up your ship to give you the ability to travel and to survive the more hostile regions of space. The different suits could be like, an Oxygen suit allowing you to survive underwater. A suit made from volcanic rock that allows you to survive harsh temperature fluctuations that may occur on some planets. A suit that survives harsh cold weather. Things of that nature. Ships could also have unique special abilities like. One ship may be extremely powerful but light on armor and doesn't warp far. So you can be worry free of being raided by pirates, but you'll be trudging through the galaxies at a snails pace, with each move adding just another possibility of some really bad ( or really good ) random event occuring to throw you off pace and off course. Some ships could be heavy in cargo space, allowing you to bring along a ton of extra resources with you. Other ships could be specially fitted to survive harsh space conditions. Some ships could be best suited for intergalactic travel across massive distances.
As you begin your journey, you can only warp. So you have to carefully plan your next move through the galaxy. Some parts of the universe will be far more hazardous then others. Some with electromagnetic disturbances that could destroy your ship in the middle of a warp, tossing you into a random direction and crashing you onto any random planet that may be in the universe. You don't know what may be on the planet you land on. Could be a paradise world full of lush life and just an insanely rich ecosystem. Or it could be a nightmare world, full of lush life and an insanely rich ecosystem but filled with ultra aggressive carnivores fighting for supremacy over the food chain. You just being another meal to be had.
Since the whole journey to the center is perma-death. You are constantly in a battle to stay alive. Constantly in a struggle to keep your ship together so you can keep doing warps closer and closer to the center, but the trials and tribulations becoming more and more harrowing the closer you get. You'll have moments of supreme triumph as a warp is lucky and you land on a planet with a super powerful ship that can blast other ships to pieces in moments and warp you hundreds of light years into the right direction, or you could warp into a mess. Something that gets you killed, forced to try again and think back on what went wrong.
See where I'm going with the idea? With the way the game is built, putting different modes like this offline could be doable and could be extremely fun and challenging and rewarding and epic to SHARE.
Truth be told. With everything we do know about the game up to this point. This could be where Murray is headed in the gameplay realm anyway. For example when you head into one of those pillars that warps you to another pillar on another planet, you have no clue whatsoever what is on the other side. Could be riches and spoils, could be a giant dinosaur staring you in the grill with its mouth open. And you will also be without a ship or resources at that point.
The reward to reaching the center? Communion. The center is this Garden of Eden like Galaxy of thousands of stars that is almost like a playground for the players who manage to reach this point. Perhaps with a central hub type solar system where players can land and communicate and see other players flying around up in the stars or whatever. This being the only spot where players can see each others names. So perhaps you can at this point gather together a dozen bodies and head off into the galaxy together to go find riches and danger and just see what is out there. But do it together.