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Hardware Nobody's talking about VRR

Jan 29, 2019
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I like the idea, but I just got a 4K TV two years ago... when I get a new set in about 8 years I'll make sure I will take that feature into consideration.

In the mean time I hope more games will at least target 60fps next gen (the CPUs should be powerful enough to feed the new GPUs fast enough to do this without problem, assuming they don't go overboard with AI/visuals/whatever).
 

martino

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Apr 25, 2013
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i don't talk about it but i think about it everyday
i can't wait to have those damn tvs correctly equipped with hdmi 2.1 (and gpus too)
 
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Hendrick's

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Jan 7, 2014
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Don't know what your talking about pleny of people have VRR displays if they got a QLED and OLED including me with my C9 55 & 77in displays. Xbox One X and S have VRR capability.
I meant relatively. The percentage of console gamers with VRR capable TV's is very small. That will change if the technology lasts.
 
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Jigga117

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Aug 26, 2019
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VRR is great, but until

I meant relatively. The percentage of console gamers with VRR capable TV's is very small. That will change if the technology lasts.
Maybe its because you haven't kept up with this but the feature has been available for 3 years now and it is standard feature for RTX GPUs for 2 years and as mentioned has been available with the Xbox One S and X and plenty of gamers have bought OLED and QLED tvs along with pleny of LEDs that also support it because HDMI 2.0 was able to support it. I don't get when it comes to gaming yall sound as if like a bunch of kids just play games so the perception is that the "percentage" is small when it isn't. People are walking out of Best Buys and ordering tvs online every single day the percentage isn't small. I wager more people today have the capability and may not know it would be a more accurate assessment vs just blanket claims that owning any of these tvs fall in a small percentage.
 

Kuranghi

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Apr 17, 2015
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Don't know what your talking about pleny of people have VRR displays if they got a QLED and OLED including me with my C9 55 & 77in displays. Xbox One X and S have VRR capability.
I think the point they are trying to make is that you are still in the minority, my friends who work for LG (Who sells the most OLEDs) show me their figures and OLED buyers are about 10% of customers, most people aren't even buying mid-end models, they are buying the bottom 3 models in massive quanities.

While many QLED models do support VRR, its kind of the same deal there but to a lesser extent, most people are buying the low-end Samsung models, like 7100/7400, which don't support VRR. Something like 20% QLEDs vs 80% low-end models, that seem like good value but are actually really bad in many areas.

10-20% of customers isn't a very big part of the market, my data is based on in-store sales, but if they don't even have staff there to tell them why they should/could spend more money for better quality then they'll probably just buy the one that fits their arbitrary budget. Those people are probably driven mostly by reviews or online discussion but a review saying "This top-end QLED is the best TV you can buy right now. 5 out of 5 stars" might lead them to go to a website with buying that model in mind, but when they see its £2000 they might go, actually maybe I can live with the £500 one, they go check reviews and it gets 4 out 5 stars so they are happy and make the purchase.
 
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Jan 7, 2018
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TV's have very poor VRR range. The game would have to specifically target 50-55 fps range and never drop below 50 in order for VRR to even work. There might be a few games that will have proper VRR mode, but those will be an extremely rare exception. A regular pc user on other hand can limit max fps to 55 so VRR will work properly in pretty much any game on pc, but sadly you don't have access to such tools on a console.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/motion/variable-refresh-rate

If you run games at 60fps than you get no vrr at all on current tv's at 4k. you will have tearing or vsync lag just like on a regular tv, unless you run them at lower resolution and enjoy blurry screen. VRR TV's will most likely be worthless on next gen consoles in 99,9% of games.
 
Jun 15, 2019
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Yep. VRR is the variable-rate refresh rate standard that TV set manufacturerers and XsX/PS5 will supposedly all support.
Well...it's more accurate to say that FreeSync (which is really just AMD's branding for VESA Adaptive-Sync) is the standard that is supported...it's literally built into the DisplayPort 1.2a+ and HDMI 2.1 VESA specification. There's a reason people ragged on NVIDIA about not adding support for "FreeSync" for years,..it wasn't just because "NVIDIA bad, AMD good".
 

Armorian

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Jan 17, 2018
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I love VRR. No more Vsync.
Only if you stay above and below supported variable RR, so for example on my 40-75Hz monitor I have to lock framerate (in Nvidia CP) to 70FPS for DX12/Vulcan games (with vsync off). Other way is to use combination of Ultra low Input lag and Vsync ON to get amazing steady frametimes in any DX11 (and 9, 10?) games.


For HRR monitors it's less of a problem of course.
 

Kuranghi

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Apr 17, 2015
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Only if you stay above and below supported variable RR, so for example on my 40-75Hz monitor I have to lock framerate (in Nvidia CP) to 70FPS for DX12/Vulcan games (with vsync off). Other way is to use combination of Ultra low Input lag and Vsync ON to get amazing steady frametimes in any DX11 (and 9, 10?) games.


For HRR monitors it's less of a problem of course.
I've never tried to use the latency feature in nvidia control panel (I assume thats what you mean by "Ultra low input lag") to improve frametimes because I thought it was for improving input lag at the expense of smooth frametimes, I think I've misunderstood that feature. It does make sense to me that have more consistent frame times would lead to better feeling from input but the desciption talking about "queuing frames while it waits for the CPU" confused me and made me think it would look worse.

If you just meant the feeling of control is better with it on when its used alongside V-sync then I get ya.
 

Armorian

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Jan 17, 2018
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I've never tried to use the latency feature in nvidia control panel (I assume thats what you mean by "Ultra low input lag") to improve frametimes because I thought it was for improving input lag at the expense of smooth frametimes, I think I've misunderstood that feature. It does make sense to me that have more consistent frame times would lead to better feeling from input but the desciption talking about "queuing frames while it waits for the CPU" confused me and made me think it would look worse.

If you just meant the feeling of control is better with it on when its used alongside V-sync then I get ya.
It completly cleans frametime, Nvidia did amazing job with this shit. I will give you example:

Nvidia Ultra low latency: ULTRA + ingame vsync ON (drver vsync works too)


Steady 13.6MS, with ~0.1MS variables

Nvidia Ultra low latency: OFF + ingame vsync ON


Shit is all over the place. ULL mode also cuts maximum framerate by 2 FPS, lowering latency caused by hitting monitor ceiling
 

soulbait

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Mar 9, 2020
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Edit to explain: VRR is Variable Refresh Rate - PC users have lived with it for a while in the form of Gsync/Freesync

It's one of my most anticipated features for the next gen consoles and games, yet in all these presentations I've heard no mention of it. Sounds like games are still targeting fixed refresh rates, 30, 60, 120.

Demanding single player experiences like AC Valhalla or Horizon could make great use of variable frame rates in the 40-60 range, rather than conservatively locking to 30fps.

Is VRR monitor/TV ownership so low that developers wont support the feature?
Once more TVs begin to hit the market that support it, you will start hearing more about it.
 

Kuranghi

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Apr 17, 2015
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It completly cleans frametime, Nvidia did amazing job with this shit. I will give you example:

Nvidia Ultra low latency: ULTRA + ingame vsync ON (drver vsync works too)


Steady 13.6MS, with ~0.1MS variables

Nvidia Ultra low latency: OFF + ingame vsync ON


Shit is all over the place. ULL mode also cuts maximum framerate by 2 FPS, lowering latency caused by hitting monitor ceiling
Holy shit that is so smooth (first video ofc), I will try it in some games that have constant framerate for me right now but still feel a bit loose, frametime-wise, the new Spongebob is like that.
 

Kuranghi

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Apr 17, 2015
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For instance, Journey to the Savage Planet feels like complete shit even when though I'm nowhere near my GPU limit. I tried capping the fps many ways and a bunch of different v-sync implementations and its just garbo feeling.
 

Bankai

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Jul 14, 2015
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No one cares because no one owns a VRR TV.
Not yet maybe!

On the other hand, I bought myself a LG C9 OLED with all HDMI 2.1 features, to get all futureproofed (especially) for next-gen VRR goodness.

I can't wait for those unstable 40-60fps PS5 games, to become silky smooth through the power of VRR :goog_hugging_face:

But all silliness aside, I'm really curious about VRR as well. I really hope it works wonders with uncapped framerates. You know what would be amazing? If BC could get VRR as well.. so that uncapped PS4 games like Sekiro can maybe run smooth all of a sudden!

One can only hope..
 
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Bankai

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Jul 14, 2015
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I own a TV with all of these features. VRR, like HDR, isn't that big a deal. 120hz, colorful games are plenty. I don't need less frames or brighter highlights.
"640K ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981
 

V2Tommy

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Oct 19, 2017
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"640K ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981
-Bill Gates never said that
-I'm being criticized for not wanting FEWER frames than 120. Good one, guys
-An entire screen at 650 nits is not magically terrible compared to some highlights at 1000 nits.
-LG CX owner, so please tell me what sort of envy I'm feeling

But I digress. Everyone should own an OLED television with all the bells and whistles so we can focus on the games themselves.

Edit: Congrats on your new TV!
 
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MetalRain

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Jul 27, 2013
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For me problem is that I opted for 4K display instead of G-sync/Freesync, so I cannot use these features even if they would benefit me.

Next display I buy surely has Freesync, but that might be around 2025? Good display lasts for very long time, I've have had like three displays since 2006.