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Nolan North on UC4- 8mths of Hennig's story/performance work was thrown away

EGM1966

Member
More interested in the AC revelation to be honest. The Uncharted info is obvious although good to have so candidly.

AC though I've long felt the original artistic direction was sacrificed on the alter of mass market franchise building and while this is a scant bit of info it really plays into that. Disappointing. I really don't like what feels like retconns and changes of direction for commercial vs artistic design reasons.
 

Skux

Member
Ugh, seeing what happened to AC just makes me mad. So much potential down the drain.

Glad Nolan realised what a shit show it was becoming too. When you're in the production it's hard to tell if what you're making is going to be good.
 
The fact that he decided to roll with the brother idea doesn't mean anything. For all we know it's an entirely new script. Since all the mo-cap was thrown away there was no reason for him to re-use stuff from another writer since it has to be re-recorded anyway.
I'm sure that given the option he'd rather write his own, why wouldn't he considering they have to shoot everything from the begining anyway?

Doesn't mean anything?! Sam was meant to be a major element in the original script, so his appearance as a major element in the new one means that the scripts are similar, at least in that regard.

Why wouldn't he write his own script from scratch? Because:
a) They'd likely already spent a lot of time and money working on the previous vision and as far as I'm aware, Naughty Dog aren't ones to just throw that kind of work away.
b) Writing a new script from scratch would take a lot of time, time that he probably didn't have given that the game was already in full production by that point.

I mean, it's NN who said they scrapped all of her story, not me!

Read. He's talking about the performance capture.
 

Azih

Member
"it's going to be along the lines of the same story"

Could mean anything including almost nothing carrying over but the bare one line summary of the plot.


I so want a documentary on this when people are older and no longer give a crap about NDAs.
 
Doesn't mean anything?! Sam was meant to be a major element in the original script, so his appearance as a major element in the new one means that the scripts are similar, at least in that regard.

Why wouldn't he write his own script from scratch? Because:
a) They'd likely already spent a lot of time and money working on the previous vision and as far as I'm aware, Naughty Dog aren't ones to just throw that kind of work away.
b) Writing a new script from scratch would take a lot of time, time that he probably didn't have given that the game was already in full production by that point.



Read. He's talking about the performance capture.

And why do you change performance capture?

Because you're changing what they say. It's why he said

it's going to be along the same lines with the story but I think there'll be...I don't know.

You're the one who keeps on omitting the word story. You don't scrap eight months of someones story performances if you're not going to be scrapping a good portion of the script.

People hanging on to something as general as, "it's going to be along the lines of the same story" are really grasping at strings. That could mean anything and is most likely just him saying something nice and not causing a media stir. I'm positive whatever story Neil and Bruce are making will be similar to Amy's original concept, but I doubt it's the same script.
 
Doesn't mean anything?! Sam was meant to be a major element in the original script, so his appearance as a major element in the new one means that the scripts are similar, at least in that regard.

Why wouldn't he write his own script from scratch? Because:
a) They'd likely already spent a lot of time and money working on the previous vision and as far as I'm aware, Naughty Dog aren't ones to just throw that kind of work away.
b) Writing a new script from scratch would take a lot of time, time that he probably didn't have given that the game was already in full production by that point.



Read. He's talking about the performance capture.

In the end it's all speculation, but no, having Drake's brother in the story doesn't mean it's similar. It's completely ridiculous to even assume that.
For example, in Amy's version his brother could've turned against him but not in Druckmann's version. Or he could die in one version and not in the other. The presence of a single character doesn't stop them from having an unlimited amount of possibilities. Hell, the fact they decided to cast a different actor even though they had 8 months of recording done proves that Drake's brother is going to be a completely different character, to the point that the original casting choice didn't feel right to them.
As for locations, you can have a completely different script still take place in the same setting.
Even though the story still takes them to the same places, it doesn't mean their motivations or dialogues are the same.

Again, all pointless speculation. In the end we don't really know more than we did before.
The fact that they re-cast a major character already told us that a lot of mo-cap work was scraped.

As for the time it would take, there's a reason the game was delayed.
They're going to shoot everything again anyway so it's not really an issue, as long as he has a draft for the overall plot he can write the dialogue as they go, a lot of the character's final lines only they take for during recording anyway, the actors always contribute a lot to the final script and there's a lot of improvisation.
That's how it was during the previous games and also in TLOU, there's a ton of interviews and footage to prove it.
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
I think it was pretty much known given that they changed actors for Drake's brother. It would mean that all scenes done with him would have to be redone because of how performance capture does.

Not sure why'd they change actors if they're still following the same baseline story Henning did.

Either way, I dunno how I feel about this since I'm one of the rare few that thinks the Last of Us is extremely overrated and prefer Uncharted/Henning's style by far.
 

Edi

Neo Member
Good news because uncharted was always about gameplay and grafics story was simple i hope next one will have a deep story like last of us
 
That's why the game has been delayed.
I call this. I wrote about this in a few threads. To the people that disagreed with me, just know that I called it. And you were wrong.

back_pat.jpg
 

stryke

Member
Druckmann and Straley have proven they are far better than Hennig. So I'm okay with this.

I think Druckmann is just as good as Hennig. It's Straley who's proven to be better at being a Game Director than Justin Richmond.

I do wish Richard Lemarchand would come back though.
 

LiK

Member
Well, looks like Druckmann got Troy involved as the brother so that's a great change. I'm still curious what the original story was like tho. Hope people can start talking about that once UC4 is finally out.
 
https://youtu.be/YHWChn7AvoQ?t=18m

A bit over a week ago, Nolan North did a series of Q&A panels at MetroCon and one guy finally had the balls to ask him about Amy Hennig's departure and the changes made to the game thereafter. It's probably the first time we've had someone gone somewhat in depth as to how the departure and change of teams affected the project.



Nolan then goes on to talk about Hennig's project at Visceral but some weird wording. It's also not 1313 -



I can't tell if she came in and rebooted what they had been working on or they're actually rebooting an old Star Wars game franchise.

_________________________________________

Other interesting tidbits about other games he's worked on -

As a joke, Naughty Dog replaced Chloe with Lazaravic in the hotel bedroom scene with Drake in Uncharted 2, including voice acting from McTavish. It was going to be included as a bonus on disc but Sony said no.

Assassin's Creed's original concept was Desmond to become the "ultimate assassin" by learning all the skills from his ancestors over a series of ~6 games. Nolan added he hated what Desmond had become by the end of ACIII. (https://youtu.be/5_kbIon1G98?t=34m6s)

Activision prematurely cut funding to the Deadpool game. Apparently the final product was only 60% of what High Moon Studios wanted to achieve.
Why is Sony getting involved here?
 

Ricky_R

Member
It's must've been a pretty awkward event when Bruce and Neil fully entered production and didn't like where everything was going. For ND to agree to scrap 8 months of Hennig's work, they must have felt that, what was worked on, wasn't enough to maintain over Bruce and Neil's ideas and/or pressure.

Hennig must've felt cheated.

I think Bruce and Neil have developed to a point where Uncharted is better off at their command, but it's still sad to see how they did Hennig like that. She was a damn good reason why, us fans, love the franchise so much.
 

foxbeldin

Member
I call this. I wrote about this in a few threads. To the people that disagreed with me, just know that I called it. And you were wrong.

B..Bu...but... but... it was to make room for the trilogy !

Missing the busiest period of the year with the new entry in your biggest IP, yeah, that theory made no sense.
 

Fitts

Member
Good. I hope they Skyped/FaceTimed her in when they threw her script in he trash.

I'm kidding. Please don't take away my GAF Gold!
 
It's must've been a pretty awkward event when Bruce and Neil fully entered production and didn't like where everything was going. For ND to agree to scrap 8 months of Hennig's work, they must have felt that, what was worked on, wasn't enough to maintain over Bruce and Neil's ideas and/or pressure.

Hennig must've felt cheated.

I think Bruce and Neil have developed to a point where Uncharted is better off at their command, but it's still sad to see how they did Hennig like that. She was damn good reason why, us fans, love the franchise so much.

Of course, in a perfect world none of this would've happened, nothing we can do about it though.
I'm looking forward to Amy's output in the future.
I'll say one thing though, there's no doubt Straley is a better game designer than (Edit) Richmond, so I'm pretty sure that in this regard the game will definitely have benefited from the change.
 

AHA-Lambda

Member
Assassin's Creed's original concept was Desmond to become the "ultimate assassin" by learning all the skills from his ancestors over a series of ~6 games. Nolan added he hated what Desmond had become by the end of ACIII.

Too bloody right.
 
Druckmann and Straley have proven they are far better than Hennig. So I'm okay with this.


when were you born?

hennig did legacy of kain/soul reaver and the first 2 uncharteds.

surprised the hard-hitting games media never even bothered to ask nd at e3 about hennig.
 
Why is Sony getting involved here?

It would be an incredibly inappropriate joke with no standing in the franchise.

For example, the bonus joke ending to Black Ops 2 was also rather racially inappropriate.

It's must've been a pretty awkward event when Bruce and Neil fully entered production and didn't like where everything was going. For ND to agree to scrap 8 months of Hennig's work, they must have felt that, what was worked on, wasn't enough to maintain over Bruce and Neil's ideas and/or pressure.

Hennig must've felt cheated.

I think Bruce and Neil have developed to a point where Uncharted is better off at their command, but it's still sad to see how they did Hennig like that. She was a damn good reason why, us fans, love the franchise so much.

On the other hand, it sounds like Hennig might be working on Star Wars TFU since there hasn't been another entry in that since the last one came out in 2010.
 
My question is who the other team leaders of Team 2 is. We know there's a group of at least 50 people making another game at their offices. Who are going to lead the other project? It would be great if NG produces a Neil & Straley v2 that obviously have their own style for the other team. It's a shame about Hennig really. I do wish her the best.

PoweredByHentai said:
It would be an incredibly inappropriate joke with no standing in the franchise.
People not being able to take a joke. I get it. Smart move on Sony's part.
 

vpance

Member
How bad could Hennig's version have been? If it's the last Uncharted with Drake then what would it really matter anyways what direction the story went.
 
Her work could have been great and the best work she's done and they still would have had to scrap it - I don't think it had anything to do with the quality. Druckmann and Bruce have shown they both get really involved and hands-on with a game when they're working on it and using something someone else wrote is a hell of a lot harder. You could give Hennig and Druckmann the same exact script down to the letter and the performance capture would be directed in two entirely different ways. It's much easier to scrap it than to try and cobble together whatever was there when she left, and kudos to ND and Sony for letting them do that without forcing the deadline.
 

Ricky_R

Member
It would be an incredibly inappropriate joke with no standing in the franchise.

For example, the bonus joke ending to Black Ops 2 was also rather racially inappropriate.



On the other hand, it sounds like Hennig might be working on Star Wars TFU since there hasn't been another entry in that since the last one came out in 2010.

Yeah. Hopefully it ends up better for everybody involved.
 

Haunted

Member
Assassin's Creed's original concept was Desmond to become the "ultimate assassin" by learning all the skills from his ancestors over a series of ~6 games. Nolan added he hated what Desmond had become by the end of ACIII.
Much respect to him for telling it like it is.

surprised the hard-hitting games media never even bothered to ask nd at e3 about hennig.
I know you're sarcastic, but internal policies, especially as it pertains to personnel and firings are usually not talked or inquired about.
 
How bad could Hennig's version have been? If it's the last Uncharted with Drake then what would it really matter anyways what direction the story went.

I am fine with it. Uncharted 3s story was a mess. Hopefully this has a good story like the first two.
 

Santar

Member
To be Honest I'm not sure how great Hennig's work really was at least to me.
I mean the first two games had serviceable adventure stories but they were not really that great or original.
And the story in the third game was pretty bad and disjointed I thought.
 
8 months? Yeesh, that seems like a lot. I mean.. sure, their own story and tone is probably a better choice, but it just highlights the craziness that was the event in general.
 
Nothing what NN said about the development of U4 surprised me. Amy quitting and Bruce and Neil taking over in the middle of the development tells you something really bad must have taken place among the top folks at ND. Amy and the 2 guys must have a really different visions of Uncharteds future and right after TLOU massive success it is tough for the higher ups to not listen to Neil and Bruces input. And most definitely they preferred Neil and Bruces version of the game. If you are Amy in that position its just time to go and do something else. I hope U4 and Star wars turns out great.
 

Ricky_R

Member
Now I wonder if Bruce and Neil were happy about where they took Drake in Uncharted 3. I'm not sure they were as involved or had the same input. If not, I imagine it can't be easy for them to work on Uncharted 4 taking Drake's revelations in UC3 into account.
 

stryke

Member
My question is who the other team leaders of Team 2 is. We know there's a group of at least 50 people making another game at their offices. Who are going to lead the other project?

I only know of one person on the other team and that's Frank Tzeng, who's the character artist.

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If they pulled a similar move with Straley/Druckmann, we could probably have a look at the credits after UC4 is out and find out who's missing from TLOU and isn't known to have left the studio.
 

Artex

Banned
Oh for sure, but given how pent-up and secretive Naughty Dog have been over Hennig's departure, I get the impression it's a touchy subject for some involved, so for Nolan to openly talk about it in a public forum is going to rub them the wrong way I bet.

Yeah, the original actor who was due to play Sam, he sounded so much more antagonistic and menacing compared to what we've seen and heard of Troy Baker's portrayal so far. I get the inkling that Uncharted 4 was originally intended to be darker than it is now under Straley and Druckmann's direction, but there's not much to go on so I'm just talking out of my ass.

I think they don't talk about it because it's an HR issue and nothing more.
 

dralla

Member
This is good news. I'd rather them come in and build their own story from scratch rather than trying to build around someone else's vision.
 
It was so painfully obvious from the very first game that this is where they were going with the story - leading up to a final modern day showdown with Desmond utilizing everything he'd learned through the Animus over the course of the series.
Then they just HAD to contort the hell out of the plot to dilute it, make it infinitely stretchable and aimless so they could milk as many settings and as much money out of the brand name as possible.

I've never seen a promising concept and a fairly intriguing character amount to absolutely nothing like what happened with Desmond and Assassin's Creed.

Don't even get me started on what they did to Lucy, either - writing her out of the plot simultaneously casually, callously and dramatically, then giving you all the actual backstory and motivations as DLC to a game that she wasn't even in.

Now Assassin's Creed has spent multiple games just cleaning up its own mess and trying to course correct a sinking ship that they'd shot full of holes themselves.


This is such a great summary of the series as a whole story wise. Bravo

Also cool to finally have some insight, cheers to North for sharing a little of what he knows.
I still occasionally remember that month or two where it seemed a new person from Naughty dog was leaving every week or so. I hope somewhere down the line we get the full scoop on this.
 
Not sure why'd they change actors if they're still following the same baseline story Henning did.

Either way, I dunno how I feel about this since I'm one of the rare few that thinks the Last of Us is extremely overrated and prefer Uncharted/Henning's style by far.

interesting. the last of us was very, very simple in terms of plot. but what it did with the characters and their relationships was unique to me (in a video game). I can't think of a game that's even close in terms of writing and acting. hennig's strength to me was actually similar, in that, i can barely remember any of the plots to the uncharted games. but that pulpy, witty banter between the characters was always great. i still have a lot of confidence in druckman with U4, even though it's so tonally different from TLoU. He probably threw out the 8 months of capture because he wanted to be there to direct it and influence the actor's performances, like he did with TLoU
 
My question is who the other team leaders of Team 2 is. We know there's a group of at least 50 people making another game at their offices. Who are going to lead the other project? It would be great if NG produces a Neil & Straley v2 that obviously have their own style for the other team. It's a shame about Hennig really. I do wish her the best.


People not being able to take a joke. I get it. Smart move on Sony's part.

If the Uncharted games had a gay character in the first place, sure, something could work from that. Since it doesn't, and the scene in question simply replaces Chloe with Lazaravic and doesn't seem to have made any other changes, I call that "terrible shock humor". The idea with shock humor is to introduce the shock and run with it, going faster and crazier with each minute. You should consider watching "Girls und Panzer" and "Witch Craft Works" for a good example of how to do shock humor.

Also, you ignored everyone else who said the same thing just to respond to me. I find that rather peculiar.
 
Uncharted 3 was sort of a disaster story-wise (and dat broken aiming!) so I do wonder what was going "wrong" with U4 to require such a drastic change to development and of course staff.
Yeah UC3 was incredibly disappointing to me after the first two brilliant games. If UC3 had been amazing then Hennig's departure would have been tragic in my eyes... but it wasn't. I'm hoping she does great work on the Star Wars game though, she's very talented and I'm sure the new project will have reinvigorated her.
 
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