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Nosgoth (Square Enix/Psyonix, Legacy of Kain, F2P) Announcement Trailer

Grief.exe

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Okay, firstly I LOVED the new DmC, so consider me a Dino afficionado. Plus, I'm a huge fan of Ninja Theory's work (heh, just when you thought I couldn't make myself any more unpopular in this thread...). I'm well aware that we've a massively uphill journey before we enter Open Beta, however I'm hoping that at that stage - when everybody will be able to play the game for free - opinions might change, simply because the game is such fun to play. Fun has to be a priority when making a game, after all.

As for the "wider audience" thing... please read between the lines.
Interesting to note, and you may be pleased to hear this, but Ninja Theory seems to be working on an Enslaved PC port.

I spotted an Enslaved app on the registry and it has been receiving constant updates. We will see.

I've been doing some research on the game, and I can tell you with a degree of certainty that Ninja Theory obviously demo'd the game on PCs then ported the game to consoles.

High-resolution bullshots abound that the consoles are just not capable of. I also noticed that none of the previews mentioned frame rate issues, which apparently plagued the final product.

I swear to god I hear them say it was a MMO. Sorry guys.
All good, appreciate the accountability.
 

Monkeythumbz

Communications Manager, nDreams
Jun 8, 2012
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You're not going to entice people into Nosgoth this way. You're going to detract them.
Time will tell, I suppose, and I hope you don't mind me saying that I hope you're mistaken.

Interesting to note, and you may be pleased to hear this, but Ninja Theory seems to be working on an Enslaved PC port.

I spotted an Enslaved app on the registry and it has been receiving constant updates. We will see.
Oh gosh, I loved the hell out of that game. Sequel, pl0x.
 

Snapshot King

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Feb 16, 2008
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Time will tell, I suppose, and I hope you don't mind me saying that I hope you're mistaken.


Oh gosh, I loved the hell out of that game. Sequel, pl0x.
Hey man, not going to tell you how to do your job or anything, but I mean, credibility is an issue with a game like Nosgoth, you may not want to kneecap yourself like this XD
 

Grief.exe

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Hey man, not going to tell you how to do your job or anything, but I mean, credibility is an issue with a game like Nosgoth, you may not want to kneecap yourself like this XD
I personally think, with a game like this, that they are doing it the right way.

Get people's hands on the game in the closed beta. Allow players to upload their gameplay and impressions to Youtube.
Viral marketing can do wonders for this game, if the gameplay is as solid as Monkey describes. Lets the Youtube gamers do the marketing to the masses.

Hell, if I got a beta code I know I would upload impressions to youtube instantly.

They knew LoK fans would not be happy, at least initially, with this announcement and the hyperbole and vitriol would overflow the youtube comments.

EDIT: Misunderstanding, I thought you were referring to the youtube comments still and not the Ninja Theory portion. My point still applies to the overall discussion though.
 

soultron

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Hey man, not going to tell you how to do your job or anything, but I mean, credibility is an issue with a game like Nosgoth, you may not want to kneecap yourself like this XD
You've really nailed the point home that you don't like anything Ninja Theory has done. We get it. Sometimes people don't like the same things as you and that's OK.
 

Darkmakaimura

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Time will tell, I suppose, and I hope you don't mind me saying that I hope you're mistaken.


Oh gosh, I loved the hell out of that game. Sequel, pl0x.
What worries me if I am mistaken, then we might just end up with more of these kind of games for this universe. Because, by your logic it's all about the 'connecting' and 'social experience'. That's worrisome. I could give a shit about interacting with people. I want to interact with the world. I want a good story, good characters, exploration, good acting - everything that made Legacy of Kain since the original Blood Omen was released what it is today.
 

Monkeythumbz

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Looks nothing like Legacy of Kain.

Great job.
I'm just going to quote myself here:

The land of Nosgoth features a variety of architectural types, each of which have changed and shifted over the course of its long and storied timeline. Nosgoth is set in areas that are known to exist but are previously unexplored, which is why they may seem unfamiliar. Equally, Nosgoth is set during a period in which Humans have regained autonomy in certain parts of the land and pose a credible threat to the Vampires, and the architecture represents this cultural setting. Nevertheless, the land is still very much in a state of corruption, as evidenced by the ecological damage visible in each map.

The maps playable in Nosgoth are set in regions referenced in previous games in the series and are known to fans, although they do not contain specific locations players would have visited in the Blood Omen or Soul Reaver games as Kain or Raziel.
Hey man, not going to tell you how to do your job or anything, but I mean, credibility is an issue with a game like Nosgoth, you may not want to kneecap yourself like this XD
You'll hate me when I say this, but not do i love NT's output, but I also think Tameem Antoniades is a great spokesperson :-O
 

Snapshot King

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Feb 16, 2008
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I personally think, with a game like this, that they are doing it the right way.

Get people's hands on the game in the closed beta. Allow players to upload their gameplay and impressions to Youtube.
Viral marketing can do wonders for this game, if the gameplay is as solid as Monkey describes. Lets the Youtube gamers do the marketing to the masses.

Hell, if I got a beta code I know I would upload impressions to youtube instantly.

They knew LoK fans would not be happy, at least initially, with this announcement and the hyperbole and vitriol would overflow the youtube comments.
I agree, but I specifically meant singing Enslaveds praises hurts credibility.

You've really nailed the point home that you don't like anything Ninja Theory has done. We get it. Sometimes people don't like the same things as you and that's OK.
Hey man I'm just trying to help the guy out, he seems nice You're quite right. They're quite free to do so, like things other than myself, as well. I'm not bothered by people that like being hit in the junk with hammers, I just think it's bizarre, and would doubt their opinion on say, what to do to relax if you're stressed though.

EDIT:

I'm just going to quote myself here:




You'll hate me when I say this, but not do i love NT's output, but I also think Tameem Antoniadesios a great spokesperson :-O
Jeez guy, I don't hate you, that's your business! It does mean I think you have awful taste though. but to each their own. It'd clearly colour all your praises of your own game in the future, that's for sure.
 

GuitarAtomik

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Why associate the LoK IP with it though? It's not like the people who love hat franchise will look at this and get all excited.
Let's put it this way: If it had nothing to do with LoK, how much attention would you be paying to it right now?
 

Monkeythumbz

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What worries me if I am mistaken, then we might just end up with more of these kind of games for this universe. Because, by your logic it's all about the 'connecting' and 'social experience'. That's worrisome. I could give a shit about interacting with people. I want to interact with the world. I want a good story, good characters, exploration, good acting - everything that made Legacy of Kain since the original Blood Omen was released what it is today.
We are absolutely not blind to the desire for a single-player LoK experience and, to quote myself again, we are huge fans of the LoK IP and we would genuinely love to bring another narrative experience in that world if all the elements were in place.
 

Grief.exe

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MT do you think if fans supported this that it'd increase the chance of there being a traditional Kain game?
I think your previous post sums up exactly how Square Enix sees this game

It seems to be a no win-situation for Legacy of Kain fans.

1: Spend money on it, SE may release more f2p games like this
2: Don't spend money on it, SE may think there are not enough LoK fans.
Board members love metrics that mean nothing. Remember, causation does not imply correlation. Good luck explaining that to Capcom or Square Enix though..

 

soultron

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MT do you think if fans supported this that it'd increase the chance of there being a traditional Kain game?
I for one would love to see the folks at CD or EM try their hand at something SP-focused in this universe. But again, I say this as someone who has no prior experience with LOK.

If this game being a successful endeavour makes that a possibility, I'm all for it.
 

Darkmakaimura

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I think your previous post sums up exactly how Square Enix sees this game

Board members love metrics that mean nothing. Remember, causation does not imply correlation. Good luck explaining that to Capcom or Square Enix though..

Well according to Monkeythumbz's response to me right above....

We are absolutely not blind to the desire for a single-player LoK experience and, to quote myself again, we are huge fans of the LoK IP and we would genuinely love to bring another narrative experience in that world if all the elements were in place.
But yeah, it's like what King said. Spend money on it and get more f2p MP games like this. Don't spend the money out of disgust and they'll think 'oh, there's no LoK fans anymore'. It's a no-win situation.
 

Bravocado

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The beauty of a game like this is that -- even if you absolutely hate it when you finally get a chance to play it -- it costs you nothing.

Furthermore, as with any series that's had a sizable gap in releases, legacy (pardon the pun) fans are always going to find something wrong with it. Always.

I recognize that I'm an outsider here, but I feel that even if the supposed SP portion of this game were to come out, people would still (find even the smallest reason to) hate it. And this MP portion would be bemoaned as tacked on, crap, etc.
It costs the credibility and trust of the old school, diehard fans that keep the franchise alive on word of mouth alone. They're banking on that loyalty but delivering a product that disgraces what brought us to it in the first place.

What I find wrong with it happens to be that forgoes everything that made the series great. The gameplay could be fun and the social aspects too, but that's not why I play Blood Omen or Soul Reaver.
 

Monkeythumbz

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Let's put it this way: If it had nothing to do with LoK, how much attention would you be paying to it right now?
While your point obviously isn't invalid, I'm going to quote myself again as it really is why we think Nosgoth is a credible entry into the LoK series canon:

Previous games in the franchise have very much focused on the Vampires and other inhuman races of Nosgoth. We wanted to show more of the Human side – at various points in history they’ve fought fiercely enough to nearly wipe out the Vampires after all, so it’s not like they’re not a formidable fighting force. Equally we thought it would be interesting to experience Nosgoth not from the vantage point of the world’s rulers but from the perspective of the people who fought in these wars. Multiplayer gameplay seemed like a good fit that would let new players into this universe. It was obvious gameplay needed to be asymmetrical, that our two sides needed to feel very different – this wasn’t just about the lore, but about making sure the gameplay felt new and exciting.
 

Vorundor

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Why associate the LoK IP with it though? It's not like the people who love hat franchise will look at this and get all excited.
This is what I don't understand. The game could be potentially fun but most, if not all, fans of LoK franchise didn't become fans because of the MP aspect, not even for the MP potential, if there ever was any.

Have this come out after a SP game or with another name. We didnt want the LoK version of Smite/Forge.
 

Darkmakaimura

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It costs the credibility and trust of the old school, diehard fans that keep the franchise alive on word of mouth alone. They're banking on that loyalty but delivering a product that disgraces what brought us to it in the first place.

What I find wrong with it happens to be that forgoes everything that made the series great. The gameplay could be fun and the social aspects too, but that's not why I play Blood Omen or Soul Reaver.
Bingo.
 

Grief.exe

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But yeah, it's like what King said. Spend money on it and get more f2p MP games like this. Don't spend the money out of disgust and they'll think 'oh, there's no LoK fans anymore'. It's a no-win situation.
Lose-Lose for the consumer.

Just how Japanese publishers like it apparently.

Either this is a joke that I don't get, or you have that backwards
lol I typed it backwards.

It costs the credibility and trust of the old school, diehard fans that keep the franchise alive on word of mouth alone. They're banking on that loyalty but delivering a product that disgraces what brought us to it in the first place.

What I find wrong with it happens to be that forgoes everything that made the series great. The gameplay could be fun and the social aspects too, but that's not why I play Blood Omen or Soul Reaver.
These games did not have good gameplay? I have not played any of the LoK games as of yet.

I'm looking to rectify that soon by picking up Soul Reaver on Steam and fixing it up to run at native 1080p with some mods.
 

Nokterian

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It costs the credibility and trust of the old school, diehard fans that keep the franchise alive on word of mouth alone. They're banking on that loyalty but delivering a product that disgraces what brought us to it in the first place.

What I find wrong with it happens to be that forgoes everything that made the series great. The gameplay could be fun and the social aspects too, but that's not why I play Blood Omen or Soul Reaver.
Well said but SE doesn't see that.
 

Khronico

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I... I... don't know what to say.

I would've rather had the series stay dead than see it resurrected like this.
 

Darkmakaimura

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These games did not have good gameplay? I have not played any of the LoK games as of yet.

I'm looking to rectify that soon by picking up Soul Reaver on Steam and fixing it up to run at native 1080p with some mods.
Of course, he meant the type of gameplay (i.e. MP battle arena garbage) that the new game has. But you knew that. ;)

Can you please let my favorite franchise stay dead? What next? A Kart game based in Nosgoth?
Kain Kart complete with gothic vehicles and Dragula playing in the background.
 

AHA-Lambda

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Well ratings and comments are disabled on the video now, I think that speaks volumes of the game's reception.
 

Archaix

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Well said but SE doesn't see that.

It's worked so well recently for The Bureau and Syndicate, SquareEnix decided they needed to hop on the "alienate the only people who give a shit about the name" train.



Well ratings and comments are disabled on the video now, I think that speaks volumes of the game's reception.

"We really look forward to hearing from you"...ten minutes after the video is posted..."OH GOD! TOO MUCH HEARING! STOP HEARING!"
 

GuitarAtomik

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While your point obviously isn't invalid, I'm going to quote myself again as it really is why we think Nosgoth is a credible entry into the LoK series canon:
That came off more disparaging than I intended. My point is that having the LoK IP affords it a larger brand awareness than a brand new IP would, not that the game can't stand on it's own. In other words, since it was already being made with the LoK IP in mind, it makes more sense to keep using that IP instead of disassociating it from it.

This goes for pretty much anything and it sort of annoys me when people ask since the positives are obvious. He might as well asked why Gotham Imposters bothered using the Batman license. In the end, an LoK fan will probably pay more attention to this game and would be more likely to try it even if they are totally opposed to the idea, than they would if it didn't have the license.
 

Nordicus

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This goes for pretty much anything and it sort of annoys me when people ask since the positives are obvious. He might as well asked why Gotham Imposters bothered using the Batman license. In the end, an LoK fan will probably pay more attention to this game and would be more likely to try it even if they are totally opposed to the idea, than they would if it didn't have the license.
Yet, the size difference between Batman fanbase and LoK fanbase is humongous. You put Batman on anything and it suddenly gets money-making potential.

This is an (old) niche franchise that will have increasing problems getting new players as years go by
 

Vorundor

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Previous games in the franchise have very much focused on the Vampires and other inhuman races of Nosgoth. We wanted to show more of the Human side – at various points in history they’ve fought fiercely enough to nearly wipe out the Vampires after all, so it’s not like they’re not a formidable fighting force. Equally we thought it would be interesting to experience Nosgoth not from the vantage point of the world’s rulers but from the perspective of the people who fought in these wars. Multiplayer gameplay seemed like a good fit that would let new players into this universe. It was obvious gameplay needed to be asymmetrical, that our two sides needed to feel very different – this wasn’t just about the lore, but about making sure the gameplay felt new and exciting.
What a load of crap. That is not a reason to opt for a multiplayer only game. In that sentence ALONE you have enough of a premise to set up a good, solid SINGLE PLAYER experience. Its like taking the tag line for a Star Wars movie and not bothering to develop the story so instead you created a Multiplayer, generic game. Well maybe not generic but its definitely in the same vein as FORGE and SMITE. Nothing original, nothing new.
 

Monkeythumbz

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What a load of crap. That is not a reason to opt for a multiplayer only game. In that sentence ALONE you have enough of a premise to set up a good, solid SINGLE PLAYER experience. Its like taking the tag line for a Star Wars movie and not bothering to develop the story so instead you created a Multiplayer, generic game. Well maybe not generic but its definitely in the same vein as FORGE and SMITE. Nothing original, nothing new.
We also wanted to show you the troops that made up the Vampire Legions referenced in Soul Reaver's manual, as well as detailing the events of what occurred during Raziel's centuries-long fall down the Abyss and thought it would interesting to enable you to play as both sides. As such, an asymmetrical multiplayer game made sense to us. Plus, we also thought it would make for a pretty kick-ass game.
 

GuitarAtomik

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Yet, the size difference between Batman fanbase and LoK fanbase is humongous. You put Batman on anything and it suddenly gets money-making potential.

This is an (old) niche franchise that will have increasing problems getting new players as years go by
All the more reason to increase brand awareness before they attempt to make a huge expensive single player game. It's a no brainer business-wise. Any brand awareness is more than a new IP would have which helps this game, and getting this game out helps increase brand awareness for any future titles they would like to make.

It's not like you were either going to get this game OR a new single player game. It was this game or nothing for the foreseeable future. This one was already being worked on as a companion to a singleplayer entry which was cancelled.
 

Bravocado

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Lose-Lose for the consumer.

Just how Japanese publishers like it apparently.



lol I typed it backwards.



These games did not have good gameplay? I have not played any of the LoK games as of yet.

I'm looking to rectify that soon by picking up Soul Reaver on Steam and fixing it up to run at native 1080p with some mods.

Oh the gameplay is quite good, it's just not the main draw. It's like a side order of fries next to a amazingly juicy storyburger.

This game is like saying "we only serve fries now, we'll put burgers back on the menu if you buy enough fries".
 

Bravocado

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All the more reason to increase brand awareness before they attempt to make a huge expensive single player game. It's a no brainer business-wise. Any brand awareness is more than a new IP would have which helps this game, and getting this game out helps increase brand awareness for any future titles they would like to make.

It's not like you were either going to get this game OR a new single player game. It was this game or nothing for the foreseeable future. This one was already being worked on as a companion to a singleplayer entry which was cancelled.
I see the point that you're making, but how do you grow brand awareness without utilizing any of the brand's strengths? Either commit to a real, well made successor and count on the quality of the product and dedication of the fan base to carry it, or forget it. I'd rather this new game be a new IP and take real risks than go this cowardly route.

Again, to the SE community manager, no offense intended to you and your team.
 

MagiusNecros

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This doesn't seem like LoK IMO. Sad and pathetic. And that's all I have to say about this.
 

Monkeythumbz

Communications Manager, nDreams
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I see the point that you're making, but how do you grow brand awareness without utilizing any of the brand's strengths? Either commit to a real, well made successor and count on the quality of the product and dedication of the fan base to carry it, or forget it. I'd rather this new game be a new IP and take real risks than go this cowardly route.

Again, to the SE community manager, no offense intended to you and your team.
None taken, but the same could be said of Soul Reaver in relation to the original Blood Omen (and it was, at the time... albeit mostly in magazine letters pages).

BY THE WAY: I am *officially* copying and pasting a lot of my answers here for use elsewhere online. So, if you see me repeating myself, remember you heard it hear first.
 

FlyinJ

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We also wanted to show you the troops that made up the Vampire Legions referenced in Soul Reaver's manual, as well as detailing the events of what occurred during Raziel's centuries-long fall down the Abyss and thought it would interesting to enable you to play as both sides. As such, an asymmetrical multiplayer game made sense to us. Plus, we also thought it would make for a pretty kick-ass game.
Oh, lord...