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November 2016 NPD (U.S. Hardware) Predictions - Closes Tuesday, December 6th

Guymelef

Member
I think Microsoft strategy is different. Scorpio it's kind of a Xbox One successor. I believe the machine will be marketed and seen as a deeper step compared with PS4 Pro.

Yeah, they would need that 1.8TF over PS4 Pro to twice the resolution of it...

They go for native 4K with 6TF and people are talking about a new generation.
If This current generation were previous generation with a 2x more resolution only... thing will be depressive.
 

blakep267

Member
So they are saving games to send them to die against Star Wars, Destiny, Red Dead 2...
You know people can buy more than 2 games. Also it depends on launch dates. I'd probably aim the Scorpio for September or October, since most likely those games would be coming in November

But also if your treating it as a new launch, an event people are going to want to buy games that show a major difference. Scalebound and crackdown seem like games that would take a major advantage of the upgrade
 

Elandyll

Banned
Nevermind, just realized I posted them in the thread. Okay, for anyone reading this, keep in mind that these are rough estimations and if the leaked data of 1.1 million PS4's sold is incorrect, disregard this whole post.

So, by the end of September 2016, the YTD of the PS4 in the US was 2.186 million. Globally, the PS4's LTD was at least 45 million, since we know that it's at 50 million as of 6th December. In October and November, the PS4 sold around 4 million globally*, so 1 million in Cyber Monday and the week beyond seems reasonable. By the end of 2015, the LTD was 35.9 million. So, that puts the YTD figures at roughly 9.1 million. Unless I missed something, this could put the US:WW ratio at only 24%. Pretty low, I understand, which is why I wanted to hear what you guys think.

*Assuming that the US:WW ratio was back to a third in October and November
I honestly think I don't see how 1.1m NPD can be reconciled with best BF week ever WW, unless the PS4 family ratio quite litertally disintegrated in terms of NA share vs WW during BF week.

Other explanation: the number is actually slim only, not including pros.

# shrug
 

Guymelef

Member
I honestly think I don't see how 1.1m NPD can be reconciled with best BF week ever WW, unless the PS4 family ratio quite litertally disintegrated in terms of NA share vs WW during BF week.

Other explanation: the number is actually slim only, not including pros.

# shrug

Look UK numbers and extrapolate them to rest of Europe.
Also according to a Ubi guy, PS4 sold 2M worldwide on BF week.
 
If those numbers are true that its pretty damn disappointing especially for PS4 considering Pro launched in same month. I mean Pro must have sold something like 300k at least and that would leave 800k for slim which is worse than 2014 November. Also if these numbers are real PS4 must have killed it rest of the world as Sony still said that PS4 had best Black Friday week ever.
 

allan-bh

Member
Yeah, they would need that 1.8TF over PS4 Pro to twice the resolution of it...

They go for native 4K with 6TF and people are talking about a new generation.
If This current generation were previous generation with a 2x more resolution only... thing will be depressive.

I bellieve that Microsoft is done with the concept of generation. From time to time they will launch a new machine. They aren't treating Scorpio just as an enhanced Xbox One, but as a new console in the same ecosystem.
 
It is sad for the industry if true :(

But there that: https://m.reddit.com/r/PS4/comments/5hjiap/jez_corden_of_windows_central_lied_about_knowing/

Looks like the author got the number on crapgamer podcast.

Yikes at the comments if true...

Another source would definitly be needed. The simple fact the guy is revealing PS VR numbers is shady in every way. Aqua was working closely with the NPD about what could and could not be revelaed, and PS VR numbers was never a part of it.
 

Guymelef

Member
I bellieve that Microsoft is done with the concept of generation. From time to time they will launch a new machine. They aren't treating Scorpio just as an enhanced Xbox One, but as a new console in the same ecosystem.

A new console made to run the same games.
 

Tratorn

Member
I honestly think I don't see how 1.1m NPD can be reconciled with best BF week ever WW, unless the PS4 family ratio quite litertally disintegrated in terms of NA share vs WW during BF week.

Other explanation: the number is actually slim only, not including pros.

# shrug

BF outside the US was stronger than ever in general (not only for consoles), it has started to get more popular since the last 2-3 years. It wasn't really a thing before that.
So the BF record for PS4 could still possible with 1.1m in the US, since these missing 400-500k+ could've been sold in other parts of the world.
 
BF outside the US was stronger than ever in general (not only for consoles), it has started to get more popular since the last 2-3 years. It wasn't really a thing before that.
So it could still possible with 1.1m in the US, since these missing 400-500k+ could be sold in other parts of the world.

I mean we already know it sold near 150k in the UK BF weekend.
 

allan-bh

Member
If those numbers are true that its pretty damn disappointing especially for PS4 considering Pro launched in same month. I mean Pro must have sold something like 300k at least and that would leave 800k for slim which is worse than 2014 November. Also if these numbers are real PS4 must have killed it rest of the world as Sony still said that PS4 had best Black Friday week ever.

We don't know what that means. Not necessarily is the best BF in terms of HW unit sales. Or it is, but the rest of november had lower sales.
 
BF outside the US was stronger than ever in general (not only for consoles), it has started to get more popular since the last 2-3 years. So it could still possible with 1.1m in the US, since these missing 400-500k+ could be sold in other parts of the world.

True. The concept of "black friday" gain even more traction this year in France for example, we had deals never seen before in terms of PS4/Xbox One bundles.
 
It is a disaster for both consoles... for PS4 is even looks ridiculous with the launch of Pro unless 1.1m is just non-Pro consoles but the site says family.

BTW are these numbers confirmed???

No company is happy this month that makes the price cuts for December a desperate move due the weak performance in November.

Jesus Christ. It's not a disaster.
 
We don't what that means. Not necessarily is the best BF in terms of HW unit sales. Or it is, but the rest of november had lower sales.

They most likely mean HW units it's just that BF is becoming a much bigger thing WW.
Also system sales in the US going to be on BF weekend even more.
 
We don't know what that means. Not necessarily is the best BF in terms of HW unit sales. Or it is, but the rest of november had lower sales.

Well I don't what else they would mean by it (?). Best week in terms of revenue for PS4 ecosystem? Still considering how the PR itself was about hardware sales I think they meant hw.
 

ethomaz

Banned
How?
It's not if you look at a profit stand point from Sony .
It's not if you look at the software this year or bundles .

It's not good but it's not that bad either .
The number means about 50% drop yoy for PS4 with Pro doing about 200k at launch

That is worst than bad if true.
 
The number means about 50% drop yoy for PS4 with Pro doing about 200k at launch

That is worst than bad if true.

Suppose Pro was not coming out do you think Sony would have not done better bundles \deal ?
Pro coming out changes there whole game plan you can't simple take it away .
Plus for Sony Pro is a PS4 one that they are selling for much more money this Nov.
 

allan-bh

Member
Actually, thinking about it more, much more disappointed in Xbox. I actually expected PS4 to do <1.2m originally but I expected XB1 up, so I adjusted numbers around that. Damnit.

Why exactly you was expecting more from XB1 than PS4/Pro? I agree that XB1 number is disappointing, but PS4 is more.
 

ethomaz

Banned
Suppose Pro was not coming out do you think Sony would have not done better bundles deal ?
Pro coming out changes there whole game plan you can't simple take it away .
Plus for Sony Pro is a PS4 one that they are selling for much more money .
We will agree to disagree... the yoy drop is terrible IMO.
 
Also at least 2017 holidays already look better when it comes to big releases. Red Dead Redemption 2, Destiny 2, New Battlefront and well COD like always. This holiday season Battlefield 1 was pretty much only game that didn't disappoint sales wise (well we don't have numbers for sw yet but going by UK numbers I don't expect anything that great from Watch Dogs 2 or Dishonored 2)
 
We will agree to disagree... the yoy drop are terrible IMO.

Truth is i also think the software also a factor in this .
This year software was not going to help move consoles .

Also at least 2017 holidays already look better when it comes to big releases. Red Dead Redemption 2, Destiny 2, New Battlefront and well COD like always. This holiday season Battlefield 1 was pretty much only game that didn't disappoint sales wise (well we don't have numbers for sw yet but going by UK numbers I don't expect anything that great from Watch Dogs 2 or Dishonored 2)

Yes next year line up look much better .
 
Why exactly you was expecting more from XB1 than PS4/Pro? I agree that XB1 number is disappointing, but PS4 is more.

Because looking at the approach of how PS4 was being pushed this holiday, where the choices were:

- Uncharted PS4 Slim
- PS4 Pro

The early tailgate signs for Pro shows that while they did "ok" numbers for launch, it was not going to be a product that was emblematic of any "hot off the oven" excitement. Sales ratio in Japan/UK would put PS4 Pro's realistic estimate to be around 25-30% tops in a month that is volume heavy.

In a month where volume and deals are king, the fact that PS4 Slim's deals is only an Uncharted deal, whereas Xbox's deals were "Halo, Gears, Minecraft, BF1" with broader variety and range meant that there was potential for it to capture a broader swath after its stronger YoY performance from July till now.

In general, any high expectations for Pro prior to early data coming out of other regions are pretty much smashed when Pro numbers elsewhere shows that while Pro is not a sales disaster, it's also not going to be any sort of volume driver at launch in a November month.
 

Kill3r7

Member
We will agree to disagree... the yoy drop is terrible IMO.

It's not terrible. Sony had two killer bundles last year and the PS4 got its first real price drop which was what lots of people were waiting for. To be fair, both Sony and MS realized this ahead of time hence the half step/mid-gen upgrades. It is obvious now that both consoles were front loaded to some extent. Ultimately it does not matter as much because PS4 is still on pace to hit 100 million consoles by the time 5 comes around and X1 is still doing well in the US.
 

allan-bh

Member
Truth is i also think the software also a factor in this .
This year software was not going to help move consoles .

They supposedly should. We have CoD (and for the first time in current gen only), we don't have Battlefront but have Battlefield 1, plus Titanfall 2, Watch Dogs 2...

The only thing missing is a better PS4 Slim bundle.
 
Software has been a disaster.

Yep the only thing that did good was BF1.
I don't expect Watch Dogs 2 or Dishonored 2 to light up the charts .

They supposedly should. We have CoD (and for the first time in current gen only), we don't have Battlefront but have Battlefield 1, plus Titanfall 2, Watch Dogs 2...

The only thing missing is a better PS4 Slim bundle.

Fallout 4 is going to sell as much as 3 of those games combine .
COD being this gen only don't mean much when the hype was not there as you can see from the sales.
Battlefront was riding on SW hype .

IMO if you follow sales you can see the games that was suppose to sell systems were not up to it .
For eg most people knew TF2 was DOA .
Last year PS4 had more bundles with newer games.
 
They supposedly should. We have CoD (and for the first time in current gen only), we don't have Battlefront but have Battlefield 1, plus Titanfall 2, Watch Dogs 2...

The only thing missing is a better PS4 Slim bundle.

"Supposedly."

Unfortunately, TF2 and WD2 weren't the new IP software behemoths their predecessors were.

CoD remains big, but for it to drop so drastically vs BLOPS3 means that software sales as a whole is impacted on a yearly comparison basis.

Really, only Battlefield 1 lived up to its position this year in terms of being one of the few big software movers expected to do its part.
 
I haven't seen any estimations on how much One has sold till this day. I know we don't have very good info to make predictions, but is there any good educated guesses? Bit under 25 million?
 

Javin98

Banned
I haven't seen any estimations on how much One has sold till this day. I know we don't have very good info to make predictions, but is there any good educated guesses? Bit under 25 million?
This is just my prediction, so I may be way off, but I believe the XB1 could be around 24.3 million sold through as of the end of November. My personal predictions put it at 18.5 million by the end of 2015. December excluded, the XB1 sold roughly 3.15 million in the US in 2016. Since the US contributes more than half of the XB1's global sales, I would say it sold 5.8 million globally. Should hit 26.5 million sold through by the end of 2016.
 

GribbleGrunger

Dreams in Digital
When talking about the PS4 people break it down into separate SKUs so they can either tell us the Slim did badly or the Pro did badly. When talking about sales people break it down into regions so they can tell us the console has performed badly ... I know this is NPD but when talking about the 'state of the industry', shouldn't we be taking into consideration possible increases elsewhere and not just take a possible decrease in ONE region? Sony just posted they hit 50m 'sold through' which sounds bloody good to me. Even if it IS down overall compared to the PS2, it's up on the PS3 and not even close to the 'consoles are dead' mantra I've been reading everywhere. People just seem to love drama.

I'd also say that ignoring what's coming in 2017 in order to be 'dramatic' is putting the cart before the horse. There's a strong chance the first quarter of 2017 could be one of the biggest, if not THE biggest first quarter a Playstation branded console has seen. It's chocker block full of gems.
 

The God

Member
Sony will market the Pro more when the times comes .
I don't know why people expect big Pro sales in this Nov .
If Sony wanted they could have cyber monday deals going on much longer like they have for the slim .
Sony could also have better slim bundles but for what ever reason they take it easy this year .
sales expectations on this forum before launch was that the Pro would do "gangbusters"
 
sales expectations on this forum before launch was that the Pro would do "gangbusters"

For some but they were others like me that were not expecting a huge amount of sales.
Even more so during BF where price matters the most .

If you look at what Sony wants to ship for the next FY you can see they don't expect a huge amount of Pro sales.
 
sales expectations on this forum before launch was that the Pro would do "gangbusters"

I don't remember much of the anecdotes for the sales expectations for Pro, but I'll just say this.

There were dozens, maybe even hundreds of different assumptions, narratives and guesswork running around through so many different people, that is still continuing on to this day with Scorpio with assumptions of exclusive games for Scorpio or assumptions of how they'll be marketed, etc, when all we have at the different point of time is what it is... guesswork.

Among those many speculations and expectations were also those people who also said Sony would not undermine their PS4 48+ million vanilla install base, and that while Pro is a big upgrade, Sony won't massively push it in fear of alienation. I never partaked in sales expectation guesswork, but I'm one of those who vehemently believed that there will not be any Pro bundle this holiday season at all because the priority is profit maximisation and that any Pro bundle will be left to next year.

There were also those who guessed that Sony will not splinter the base and that Pro is just what has been exactly what it is since the documentation leaks... a more powerful PS4 and that's it. And that with those lowered expectations of what type of product it is, the natural assumption that it won't be a super huge product out the gate.

Sometimes... shockingly, a company doesn't do some of the stuff that is guessed by forum-goers, because not everything guessed and theory-crafted by us... are valid?

If you look at what Sony wants to ship for the next FY you can see they don't expect a huge amount of Pro sales.

This.

If we looked at what Sony projects for FY2016 in terms of total PS4 sales, they were the last in the world to expect gangbuster sales, but rather just:
- modest launch sales that would potentially add up to 1-1.5 million in first month
- additional buffer of 30% incremental sales for the remaining 4 months

Those are the estimate numbers that Sony would need to hit 20mil PS4s by March. None of those are factors that would had been contributed by a sales monster.
 
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