NPD December 2022 and for the year 2022: #1 MW2 #2 Pokemon #3 God of War; NSW #1 Units (PS5 #2) PS5 #1 Revenue (NSW #2)

Elios83

Member
The problem for MS now is that there isn't any wiggle room for price cuts anytime soon as the console is already dirt cheap and they just reduced the price. They already tried to undercut their competition in price without much impact so any additional price cuts to boost sales will devalue the product. Now they can only compete in actual content, you know, by releasing actual games. Starfield better releases sooner rather than later as the sales of the Xbox consoles will come to a screeching halt. They better not release Starfield in November. Yes, "pre-season" is important, not only in the holidays.

That's the usual problem with the constant promotions. The product gets devalued, people just won't buy it again at full price.
The biggest problem is when the product doesn't sell really well even with the promotions. At that point the price lever is gone for you, you know that price isn't the problem.
The reality is that people won't buy consoles just because of a cheap entry price, they need reasons and those reasons are big games.

About Starfield it all depends on Microsoft having something else big planned for the next holiday season. Right now that doesn't seem to be the case, Hellblade and Avowed might be their next games (and it's not even clear if they'll be ready this year) but these are not system sellers. Competition already has a huge system seller announced like Spiderman 2. Under these circumstances it's only natural to invest in Starfield as a big holiday title while polishing it even further. We'll see what happens but honestly a Starfield delay not only wouldn't suprise me but it seems almost logical.
 
That's got to be absolutely embarrassing and demoralizing for MS when you get outsold by a more expensive console despite the huge price cut and fire sales in your home country where it is supposedly their strongest market. And they still landed in a distant 3rd place even when Sony was severely impacted by supply issues. This is why they don't disclose any numbers.

The problem for MS now is that there isn't any wiggle room for price cuts anytime soon as the console is already dirt cheap and they just reduced the price. They already tried to undercut their competition in price without much impact so any additional price cuts to boost sales will devalue the product. Now they can only compete in actual content, you know, by releasing actual games. Starfield better releases sooner rather than later as the sales of the Xbox consoles will come to a screeching halt. They better not release Starfield in November. Yes, "pre-season" is important, not only in the holidays.

Oh, and it's a shame High on Life is nowhere to be found in these charts since we were told that Gamepass was supposed to increase game sales. I guess the game underperformed, like the console itself.
In this context, I wonder how will that new leaked PS5 (with a detachable disc drive) would damage Xbox sales even further.

If the "standard product" (without the disc drive) is available at $399 vs. XSX at $499 (which is expected to increase this year), that gotta the ratio even more in favor of PlayStation.

A $399 console (with an option to buy the optical drive if needed, or even borrow it from a friend) that offers the same performance as XSX but faster SSD, DualSense and, now, PS VR 2 capability? That will be a fantastic deal.

XSX will need a better strategy to counter that. Maybe a Digital XSX at $399?
 

Ronin_7

Member
No way MS is happy with these results. Not even close.

MS just cut the price of their already cheap console in order to compete with the 2 other companies that didn't discount their products and they still ended up dead last. MS took a major hit in their revenue and profit and still can't compete with Sony and Nintendo.

And their Gamepass subscriber growth on console is slower than they anticipated due to lower console sales. You've got to sell consoles in order to sell software and drive subscriber growth. They failed on both fronts and anyone that says console sales don't matter to MS is delusional.

Xbox elitists are delusion by nature, hardware sales don't matter but without hardware you can't sell software.

Software operates on Hardware.

But yes Xbox has failed in both fronts.
 
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Ronin_7

Member
In this context, I wonder how will that new leaked PS5 (with a detachable disc drive) would damage Xbox sales even further.

If the "standard product" (without the disc drive) is available at $399 vs. XSX at $499 (which is expected to increase this year), that gotta the ratio even more in favor of PlayStation.

A $399 console (with an option to buy the optical drive if needed, or even borrow it from a friend) that offers the same performance as XSX but faster SSD, DualSense and, now, PS VR 2 capability? That will be a fantastic deal.

XSX will need a better strategy to counter that. Maybe a Digital XSX at $399?

PS5 Slim + Spidey 2 will be a 2 punch combo that will hurt hard.

Nintendo in 2023 has 0 chance of outselling PS5 imo in the States & WW. ASIA is another story.
 

sandbood

Member
PS5 Slim + Spidey 2 will be a 2 punch combo that will hurt hard.

Nintendo in 2023 has 0 chance of outselling PS5 imo in the States & WW. ASIA is another story.
Nintendo still hasn't unleash their major promotions and price cut like Sony with PS4 and Microsoft with XB1 yet.






Just imagine what's going to happen when Nintendo Switch at $199 with 3 first party titles with it during holiday.
 
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Astral Dog

Member
the Switch still on beast mode at its 6th year
PlayStation must have did the heavy lifting for Crisis Core.🤔
Naturally, FFVIIRemake being console exclusive has something to do with it, i hope CC did well on all platforms regardless, its a cool game
 
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Fafalada

Fafracer forever
Nintendo still hasn't unleash their major promotions and price cut like Sony with PS4 and Microsoft with XB1 yet.
Then again, neither has Sony with the PS5.
Actually MS this year has been the first time I recall aggressive price-promotions in a holiday season since Covid started, and it didn't seem to do that much according to these numbers.

How many of these are xsx? Half?
Have we ever had any data actually supporting this 'major' marketshare for XBS theory? I know people kept talking about how it's doing big/most sales (as well as labelling it brilliant strategy) but outside of Japan numbers which are roughly 50% split (and the totals for the year come out to about 1 summer month of NPD if that... so with shipments that low is it really statistically representative?), I don't recall seeing any other territory numbers in support of that.
Now true - XBS has been on sale many times in 22, and in stock more often than everything other than maybe Switch Lite - but that in of itself isn't evidence of its market share /shrug.

Maybe someone could reverse engineer estimates in NPD now, given revenue-placement for each month vs. leaked numbers - some kind of ratios could be estimated, though it'd still be far from exact.
 

demigod

Member
In this context, I wonder how will that new leaked PS5 (with a detachable disc drive) would damage Xbox sales even further.

If the "standard product" (without the disc drive) is available at $399 vs. XSX at $499 (which is expected to increase this year), that gotta the ratio even more in favor of PlayStation.

A $399 console (with an option to buy the optical drive if needed, or even borrow it from a friend) that offers the same performance as XSX but faster SSD, DualSense and, now, PS VR 2 capability? That will be a fantastic deal.

XSX will need a better strategy to counter that. Maybe a Digital XSX at $399?
There is already a digital one for $399 so i can definitely see this one being $349.
 

yazenov

Member
That's the usual problem with the constant promotions. The product gets devalued, people just won't buy it again at full price.
The biggest problem is when the product doesn't sell really well even with the promotions. At that point the price lever is gone for you, you know that price isn't the problem.
The reality is that people won't buy consoles just because of a cheap entry price, they need reasons and those reasons are big games.

About Starfield it all depends on Microsoft having something else big planned for the next holiday season. Right now that doesn't seem to be the case, Hellblade and Avowed might be their next games (and it's not even clear if they'll be ready this year) but these are not system sellers. Competition already has a huge system seller announced like Spiderman 2. Under these circumstances it's only natural to invest in Starfield as a big holiday title while polishing it even further. We'll see what happens but honestly a Starfield delay not only wouldn't suprise me but it seems almost logical.

Yes, the people have voted with their dollars. Value and content are the main selling points of the console, not its price. MS thought that people would buy the Series S in droves due to the lower price and for Gamepass, and most people buy consoles for multiplatform games, or so they assumed, but it seems that exclusive quality content is a major factor that pushed the consumers toward the more expensive PS5 rather than the Xbox. Consumers are willing to pay more for quality and perceived value, and the sales figures are proof of that. The narrative that exclusive games aren't important needs to be put to rest.

With regards to MS holding their biggest games for the holiday season, I think it's a huge mistake as they should take notes from Sony and what they did with their release schedule this year. Sony released both Horizon Forbidden West and GT7 in Feb and March to sell their consoles early in the year to keep the sales momentum going towards the end of the year with God Of War Ragnarok. Momentum is key, and it's a mistake to leave droughts with your release schedule. Of course, Sony has the luxury and the means to do this with their huge 1st party studios and their top-tier IPs.

I don't think Hellblade and Avowed would move the needle sales-wise. They may be good games but nowhere at the level of Horizon or GT7. They need something to sustain the sales momentum until their big game (Starfield) drops before the holidays or they are in trouble.

In this context, I wonder how will that new leaked PS5 (with a detachable disc drive) would damage Xbox sales even further.

If the "standard product" (without the disc drive) is available at $399 vs. XSX at $499 (which is expected to increase this year), that gotta the ratio even more in favor of PlayStation.

A $399 console (with an option to buy the optical drive if needed, or even borrow it from a friend) that offers the same performance as XSX but faster SSD, DualSense and, now, PS VR 2 capability? That will be a fantastic deal.

XSX will need a better strategy to counter that. Maybe a Digital XSX at $399?

The PS5 hasn't even reached its sales peak yet, and the price is currently not a factor in sales but the supply. Sony just needs to keep the sales momentum going by increasing the supply to meet the demand and continue to add value to their console by releasing quality and exclusive content.

When the sales start to reach their peak, they can lower the price or release a new model as you suggested. And with their competition struggling, I don't think they will do any major moves yet.

Xbox elitists are delusion by nature, hardware sales don't matter but without hardware you can't sell software.

Software operates on Hardware.

But yes Xbox has failed in both fronts.

The fact that MS is trying to push the Series S hard into the consumers while taking a huge loss on every console sold (they were losing money on it even before the price cut) is proof that MS needs console sales to sell software and subscriptions. To suggest otherwise is nonsense. I mean, why else would they reduce the price of the console that is half the price of its competitor? to sell hardware obviously.
 

Mozza

Member
This is very likely to happen, Switch has climbed then peaked and now is declining by around 4 million a year. The PS5 is on the way up and if Sony can supply enough then I see no reason they can't hit 20 million in 2023.

Global calendar year shipments

NSW

2017:
14.86 million (released in March)
2018: 17.41 million
2019: 20.21 million
2020: 27.39 million
2021: 23.67 million
2022: likely around 20.00 million
2023: 16.00 million????

PS5

2020:
4.50 million (released in November)
2021: 12.80 million
2022:
likely around 14.50 million
2023: 20.00 million????
The Switch is a bit of a strange one to predict, yes it could drop to 16 million, which would still be pretty awesome of a 6 year old console, but by the same token I would not be in the least bit surprised to see it hit 20 million, the mass market is vast, and they are boosting production this year and with Zelda, and I am sure some pretty awesome unannounced stuff incoming.
 
The Switch is a bit of a strange one to predict, yes it could drop to 16 million, which would still be pretty awesome of a 6 year old console, but by the same token I would not be in the least bit surprised to see it hit 20 million, the mass market is vast, and they are boosting production this year and with Zelda, and I am sure some pretty awesome unannounced stuff incoming.
Nintendo must have a lot of high profile games to justiy the increase of production this fiscal year, is very anormal when a publisher such as Nintendo decide to increase the production of it console, when normaly in it 6 year in the market, you expect it sales momentum to slowdown, you would normaly expect them to rank up production of it sucessor, if they plan to release in the next 2/3 years
 
Nope. 14th in November. 13th in December. The chart you are talking about is Nintendo only. It didnt even break the top 20 of the year. Was outsold by Super Smash brothers. A 2018 game. Mario Kart. a 2014 game. Nintendo currently has the largest userbase and holidays is when the parents go nuts buying games for their kids. The fact that a game with Mario in the title didnt break the top 20 is definitely underwhelming.

another flop for Nintendo was Bayonetta 3(but i expected this, considering it ninche genre and it scandal surroding it voice actress)
 

demigod

Member
another flop for Nintendo was Bayonetta 3(but i expected this, considering it ninche genre and it scandal surroding it voice actress)
Do you think so? I dunno if that scandal really had anything to do with it. If anything I think it would be the shitty graphics on the switch.
Hogwarts will sell gangbusters and trust me, that scandal won't have any affect.
 
Do you think so? I dunno if that scandal really had anything to do with it. If anything I think it would be the shitty graphics on the switch.
Hogwarts will sell gangbusters and trust me, that scandal won't have any affect.
it was more due to Bayonetta terrible character assasination and releasing so close to severals to higly resquested port on the console such as Persona 5 e Nier Automata
 
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Woopah

Member
As bad as the difference is in November, the earlier months are extremely troubling. The PS5 numbers show that the sales increase as the supply increases. The Xbox which has not been supply constrained for a while now, at least the xss, did not see a similar increase and instead stayed around the 250-280k mark. That is not a good look.

Especially considering the U.S is their strongest market. Especially considering the xss is $200 cheaper. Especially considering they werent supply constrained to begin with.

How many of these are xsx? Half? Is the PS5 seriously outselling the xsx, it's main competition, by 3:1? And this AFTER the news of the Activision acquisition which shouldve convinced COD players to skip buying the PS5 at least out of fear of it becoming exclusive after three years. Not to mention the fact that starfield was announced as a 2022 game complete with a release date. That shouldve made a dent and convinced people to pick the xsx over the ps5. they didnt.

I keep saying this, but this is on Phil and he needs to go. Whatever he's doing is not enough. he had $8 billion to spend at the start of the year and he wasted them on starfield and redfall. two games that were always coming to xbox. use that money to get Fable, Perfect Dark and Avowed out faster.

P.S Sony has reached Nintendo status. They can post numbers like this on brand name alone. they had no next gen exclusives but people wanted to play their premiere AAA games on the next gen consoles. Or people dont care about their games and just like to play on playstation for some reason. i honestly cant make sense of this. i expect this from europe and asia, but these splits in North America are insane.
I think its Nintnedo status in terms of games, rather than brand. PS5 is doing well this year becuase:

1. Horizon 2, GoW2 and GT7 are big, successfull games with no counter from Xbox
2. Two of the biggest third party releases of the year (CoD and FIFA) have their marketing deals with PlayStation

Likewise, the Switch's strong hardware/software sales late in its life are due to Nintendo being on a long run of software releases without the usual gaps/droughts that have plagued the final years of some of their previous systems.

As we saw with the Vita and Wii U, the PlayStation and Nintnedo brands alone mean nothing.

On a seperate note, I think the number of people who would pick up an Xbox for a Starfield announcement or an aquisition announceent are slim to none. People's actions will be driven by things when they actually happen.


They operate in different segments though, Switch is a handheld console, with lower price of entry and with the only big player in that segment being Nintendo.
They have different strategies, but both Sony and Nintnedo are selling mass market dedidcated video game platforms. Industry trackers like NPD, GfK and Media Create put them in the same segment.
PS5 Slim + Spidey 2 will be a 2 punch combo that will hurt hard.

Nintendo in 2023 has 0 chance of outselling PS5 imo in the States & WW. ASIA is another story.
Agreed, this is exactly what I would expet as well. Of coruse we don't know Nintnedo's lineup for the fill year yet, or what pricing/promotion plans that I have. Bit I think their actions there can only shrink the gap betwen them and PS5, not stop PS5 overtaking them all together. As you say, the only expception will be Asia where I expect Switch to still lead comfortably.

Nintendo must have a lot of high profile games to justiy the increase of production this fiscal year, is very anormal when a publisher such as Nintendo decide to increase the production of it console, when normaly in it 6 year in the market, you expect it sales momentum to slowdown, you would normaly expect them to rank up production of it sucessor, if they plan to release in the next 2/3 years

My guess is that Nintnedo is just trying to secure produciton to ensure no shortages. They will definitely have several unannounced games for 2023, but Switch hardware sales will still decline and Nintnedo's targets will reflect that.

As for Bayonetta 3, we'll also have a better idea when Nintendo announces its fiscal results. I imagine a game like that would have a sizeable digtal share, and i epxetc it to sell over 1 million units.
 
Xbox elitists are delusion by nature, hardware sales don't matter but without hardware you can't sell software.

Software operates on Hardware.

But yes Xbox has failed in both fronts.

Not just that; Game Pass's biggest platform for growth has been Xbox consoles; they signaled that it was stagnating on consoles late last year (maybe that changes this year?), but cited PC Game Pass growth.

Only problem is, PC Game Pass had ridiculously low subscriber counts compared to on Xbox. So unless we're talking like 1000% growth or stuff like that, the gains in absolute subscriber numbers isn't of too much significance. And then on the flipside, if Game Pass growth boons again thanks to games like Starfield, that's going to inevitably mean lower direct sales for those same games, because it's clear most people are choosing to play them via Game Pass.

Meaning Game Pass revenue needs to be high, meaning some of the loopholes and super-cheap deals have to start getting phased out or significantly reduced in how often they can be used. For example, I imagine repeated sign-ups for Game Pass trail deals and even for things like using other regions for stacking tricks will reinforce checks for what credit cards are being used to do them and the name of the holders of those cards, maybe also which issuing bank or making it so that if a registered person has a file on the system for having used an offer a time ago, they are unable to reattempt it until a set amount of time has passed regardless if they use another card or if they do, their bank will be contacted to verify who owns the card and if that person's the same as on MS's side in their database, they decline the card.

The wild thing though is, a lot of this self-bred product/services infighting MS created, could have been avoided if they didn't jump the gun on putting all their eggs in the Day 1 Game Pass basket, or all games Day 1 PC basket. They should've taken a more selective and case-by-case approach, but chose not to.

Then again, neither has Sony with the PS5.
Actually MS this year has been the first time I recall aggressive price-promotions in a holiday season since Covid started, and it didn't seem to do that much according to these numbers.


Have we ever had any data actually supporting this 'major' marketshare for XBS theory? I know people kept talking about how it's doing big/most sales (as well as labelling it brilliant strategy) but outside of Japan numbers which are roughly 50% split (and the totals for the year come out to about 1 summer month of NPD if that... so with shipments that low is it really statistically representative?), I don't recall seeing any other territory numbers in support of that.
Now true - XBS has been on sale many times in 22, and in stock more often than everything other than maybe Switch Lite - but that in of itself isn't evidence of its market share /shrug.

Maybe someone could reverse engineer estimates in NPD now, given revenue-placement for each month vs. leaked numbers - some kind of ratios could be estimated, though it'd still be far from exact.

Nope; it's generally been accepted the split of S to X is at least 60/40 favoring the S.

Anyhow, moving on from that and just speaking more in general regarding total global sell-through for consoles, I just want to mention something briefly.

Historically, US & UK have accounted for at least 60% of Xbox's global market share. For the 360 gen, it was closer to at least 65% between them.

With the new NPD leak numbers and knowing that historical ratio, we can actually figure out pretty well where Series sold-through are at as of end-of-2022. Even throwing in 2 million for Series in UK for 2022 (which I doubt was the case, so I'm being very generous there), total sold-through for Series would have been at 16.4 million - 16.9 million as of end of 2022.

In other words, they would have been tracking behind XBO by this point. There is no data to suggest Xbox's ROTW market share has suddenly grown significantly beyond the usual 40% (and again, the 40% for ROTW for Xbox might be generous). It's just statistically impossible that ROTW accounts for the majority of XBS sales, or that Series sold-through sales are beyond 20 million by this point (as another example).

I'm bringing this up because a lot of people were doubting my estimates when I started some months ago. That was in spite of me trying to be fair to Microsoft in those estimates, and we had to use a lot of circumstantial data from various sources along the way. But I never really thought of the market splits at that time; this time I've considered them and combined with these NPD number leaks, it's pretty easy to figure what actual sold-through for Series systems were at by at least end of 2022.

And I say all that so I can rub it in Aaron Greenberg's face, for trying to prop up a KNOWN inaccurate and biased source in VGChartz just to hype Xbox sales numbers. He knew VGChartz's global LTD numbers were wrong, but legitimized them anyway. Yes, Xbox Series did have a record April (if real sources are to be believed), but he didn't need to conflate that with VGChartz's false numbers. He set legitimate discussion on sales figures back by at least three months when he did such, all for the sake of temporary optics.

Do better, Aaron Greenberg.

But some people would rather make emotional arguments than data-driven ones when it comes to certain plastic boxes, I guess.
 
Xbox Series is selling pretty much in line with Xbox One and 360 (adjusted for industry growth), despite the existence of Series S. The only difference is that they are now generating less revenue than before because Series S was selling for $250-$299.

The market share and console sales split (compared to PS5) hasn't changed much.

Couple caveats here (and not-so-great for Xbox). If the NPD leaked #s are accurate, PS5's actually gained 2% market share over Xbox this compared to PS4 vs XBO last gen time-aligned.

Also, if my own estimates are correct (and now actually accounting for US/UK % of Xbox global market share historically, I didn't really do this before), then Series are probably tracking behind XBO, which hit 18 million sold-through by its 26th month.

I think there's a reason the PR about sales stopped months ago, and if we don't get anything referencing them pacing ahead of XBO at the investor's call next month, then it's basically a lock they're tracking behind it (still outpacing 360 though launch-aligned; by how much I wouldn't know).

Too bad that December's data are missing since it was PS5 best month ever.

Was this officially stated? Crazy if true, it'd mean probably something like 1.4 million, scary to think if it's even above that!

For reference, those are like peak 360/Wii US numbers back in their day. I don't think PS's ever traditionally done holiday NPD numbers like that or this past November's for that matter, except very rarely.

Xbox took a huge defeat last holiday season, gap is even bigger than it was during the typical holiday season in the previous gen and that's with a huge price advantage with the Series S and a subscription service giving away many games day one at a cheap price.
Phil's strategy of focusing on cheap prices to attract the casual market isn't paying off, they need games.

Yep, pretty much. And again, they HAVE some good games. Problem is they don't have much anything that's mass-market appealing, exclusive, and/or tied specifically to their brand.

You need both that and the games themselves being quality to start hitting some big numbers.

The PS2 has found its successor

Nov 2002
PS2 1,283,811
Xbox 466,962

Nov 2022
PS5 1,328,000
S|X 730,000

I still think PS5 comes up short of PS2 lifetime (PS3's early screw-ups benefiting PS2's late sales can't be understated).

However, I could just as easily be wrong and PS5 does in fact hit or even beats PS2's lifetime numbers, which would be a record feat.

thicc_girls_are_teh_best thicc_girls_are_teh_best check out these numbers. Much more in line with what we initially talked about compared to VGChartz data, which is LOL.


I know man, I'm just catching up on all of this, it's been a wild ride. It's like a late Christmas present, these number leaks.

Pretty much seals the deal that Series is very likely now tracking behind XBO. But we'll know for sure in two days (just look for any PR statements on Series sales tracking ahead of 360 & XBO, preferably with some percentage since it's MS and they never want to share actual hard numbers).
 

jm89

Member
Getting outsold almost 2:1 in your home turf where you normally do very well in and rely on for marketshare has to be setting of alarm bells at xbox. Folks kept singing the "series s value" song, but that only seem to have really helped them in the UK.

One things is for sure starfield will be coming this year if any one had doubts, that sucker getting launched no matter the condition cause they badly need it. Personally i don't see redfall and forza moving the needle much, im sure they will be great games, arkane always have their shit together and turn 10 aswell.

But the lead upto starfield will be tough, what else could they do not to bleed more marketshare until then? Get more series x out and hope it was just consumers not wanting the s but holding out for the x?
 
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NPD Numbers posted over at IBF upto november.

PS5 US NPD HW:
Jun-22: 277K
Jul-22: 301K
Aug-22: 341K
Sep-22: 494K
Oct-22: 456K
Nov-22: 1328K
LTD as of Nov-22: 10592K

XBX US NPD HW:
Jun-22: 260K
Jul-22: 247K
Aug-22: 251K
Sep-22: 288K
Oct-22: 261K
Nov-22: 730K
LTD as of Nov-22: 8736K


That ps5 and xbox november sales diffrence.

But...but...I was told the difference was less than 100K in the US by Xbox fans.
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
Nope; it's generally been accepted the split of S to X is at least 60/40 favoring the S.
I've heard that - but do we have 'any' reliable source supporting it? I certainly haven't seen anything official - but also no leaks to that effect?

In other words, they would have been tracking behind XBO by this point. There is no data to suggest Xbox's ROTW market share has suddenly grown significantly beyond the usual 40% (and again, the 40% for ROTW for Xbox might be generous). It's just statistically impossible that ROTW accounts for the majority of XBS sales, or that Series sold-through sales are beyond 20 million by this point (as another example).
This is interesting - still easy to argue about 'availability' being lower than XBO was, and pricing is certainly less aggressive overall (ASRP at least, even with the 60:40 split), but yea it also explains why MS hasn't said anything on the trajectory since the time they set that 'fastest XB to 10M' or whatever it was.
 

SlimySnake

The Contrarian
As we saw with the Vita and Wii U, the PlayStation and Nintnedo brands alone mean nothing.

Thats a good point, but we always talk about how casuals and mainstream gamers dont care about graphics and yet they are willing to spend $500 and god knows how many months stalking bestbuy and amazon to get their orders in JUST to play last gen games at native 4k or 60 fps? Either they care about graphics after all or they know Sony's name means quality just like Nintendo and eventually those games will come.
 
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Yes, the people have voted with their dollars. Value and content are the main selling points of the console, not its price. MS thought that people would buy the Series S in droves due to the lower price and for Gamepass, and most people buy consoles for multiplatform games, or so they assumed, but it seems that exclusive quality content is a major factor that pushed the consumers toward the more expensive PS5 rather than the Xbox. Consumers are willing to pay more for quality and perceived value, and the sales figures are proof of that. The narrative that exclusive games aren't important needs to be put to rest.
Yeah, that's a good point. It reminds me of this.


“I think, over the generation, our expectation would be that price really matters and that you would see the Series S sell more,” said Phil Spencer.

As evidence points out, he was wrong in his assessment of the industry and strategy.

It just shows the main problem with Xbox comes from the top echelon's strategy and thinking. They are far removed from the ground realities of the gaming industry and continuously fail to realize what gamers actually want.

On top of it, add the following to the mix, and I've no idea what Microsoft leadership must be thinking right now. How do they steer this ship?

 

TLZ

Member
A gentle reminder that the Switch will turn six in March, has not seen a price cut at all, and in fact saw the release of a more expensive model.

It is fucking bonkers.
Why have a price cut when they're having a monopoly on the handheld market, and everyone's buying it?
 

TLZ

Member
No way MS is happy with these results. Not even close.

MS just cut the price of their already cheap console in order to compete with the 2 other companies that didn't discount their products and they still ended up dead last. MS took a major hit in their revenue and profit and still can't compete with Sony and Nintendo.

And their Gamepass subscriber growth on console is slower than they anticipated due to lower console sales. You've got to sell consoles in order to sell software and drive subscriber growth. They failed on both fronts and anyone that says console sales don't matter to MS is delusional.
Man if Xbox don't deliver with their next highly anticipated games, those at the top must go and replaced by competent leaders who know games and consoles business. I know some people don't like Xbox anyway, but I don't want to see them go. I really enjoyed the Xbox and 360 gens and would like to see that whole atmosphere come back. It feels different now.
 

jm89

Member

Reminder that Vgchartz fudding the numbers
Looks look they currently have xbox at around 486k just for that week ending 26th November after adjusting down.

They predicted xbox did just almost in one week what npd said they did in a month.

Greenberg needs to sort his boys out
 
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James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
MLB almost beat Horizon wtf. Beat GT7. Crazy.
Where is TLOU remake? I thought it sold well.
No Callisto lmao. Imagine getting outsold by a flop like Gotham Knights.
Fifa outselling MLB, NBA and NHL. What a crazy time to be alive.


MLB is much bigger than you think, especially on multiple platforms

Being in the top 10-15 games in the year is not a flop for gt7 or horizon lol…
 

Ronin_7

Member
Looks look they currently have xbox at around 486k just for that week ending 26th November after adjusting down.

They predicted xbox did just almost in one week what npd said they did in a month.

Greenberg needs to sort his boys out
They still have Xbox over tracked by 2M+ WW.

XBOX LT in US is 9.6M... US is like 50-60% OF XBOX market share.

So yeah they're full of shit.
 

SlimySnake

The Contrarian
You said it underperformed which is simply not true.

I should clarify. I am not saying GT7 didnt sell well. Of course it sold well. it is in the top 20 landing at the 20th spot. I am saying relative to games like Mario Kart and fucking MLB the Show which is by no means as popular as Fifa and Madden, it has underperformed. I dont know if i said this already, but GT7 and HFW took almost 5 years to make and cost way more than a yearly franchise like MLB the show. Like 5-10x more. I highly doubt Sony is happy with those numbers.

Now compared to Forza which landed at the 20th spot last year, and Halo infinite which didnt even make the top 20 last year of course both Horizon and GT7 did great. Sony has 4 games in the top 20. Thats a great fucking year for any publisher especially considering 3/4 games were exclusives, and 1 of them was on gamepass. I mean Sony is matching Nintendo for the most games in the top 20 and beating Nintendo in the top 10. Thats pretty damn good all things considered.
 
I've heard that - but do we have 'any' reliable source supporting it? I certainly haven't seen anything official - but also no leaks to that effect?

We can actually look at 360's sales and figure it out. Of the 85 million they officially sold, at least 47 million were in NA alone. UK was another 8.4 million.

Combined, that's over 65% of 360's sales between those two territories alone. Considering XBO ignored markets outside of US & UK last gen after a while, I strongly doubt they had any major growth in those other markets, so we could probably actually say it's more 65/35 but I just went with 60/40.

Xbox as a whole is a STRONGLY American/UK-associated gaming brand. They are weak in other regions of the world, and it's been that way since its inception. Just look at the Japanese sales of late as an example.

This is interesting - still easy to argue about 'availability' being lower than XBO was, and pricing is certainly less aggressive overall (ASRP at least, even with the 60:40 split), but yea it also explains why MS hasn't said anything on the trajectory since the time they set that 'fastest XB to 10M' or whatever it was.

Exactly, and they don't need to win NPDs to give those sort of statements. Truth is they (IMO) painted the expectation we would at least get statements of how they're tracking vs. 360 & XBO semi-regularly, but if not then it just speaks to another problem with Microsoft: lack of messaging consistency.

Why start putting out those comparisons if you weren't willing to stay committed to them? That's one thing I dislike about Microsoft/Xbox when it comes to talking about their sales.

Looks look they currently have xbox at around 486k just for that week ending 26th November after adjusting down.

They predicted xbox did just almost in one week what npd said they did in a month.

Greenberg needs to sort his boys out

Greenberg needs to be sorted out.
 

Mozza

Member
Nintendo must have a lot of high profile games to justiy the increase of production this fiscal year, is very anormal when a publisher such as Nintendo decide to increase the production of it console, when normaly in it 6 year in the market, you expect it sales momentum to slowdown, you would normaly expect them to rank up production of it sucessor, if they plan to release in the next 2/3 years
The Switch is not operating in your traditional core market though, their are millions of potential customers in the mass market, but who knows.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
That's the usual problem with the constant promotions. The product gets devalued, people just won't buy it again at full price.
Yes. Devaluing and races to the bottom are real. Especially when you can afford parentally to try and reshape said industry in that means.
 

Woopah

Member
Thats a good point, but we always talk about how casuals and mainstream gamers dont care about graphics and yet they are willing to spend $500 and god knows how many months stalking bestbuy and amazon to get their orders in JUST to play last gen games at native 4k or 60 fps? Either they care about graphics after all or they know Sony's name means quality just like Nintendo and eventually those games will come.
I don't think the people stalking retailers are the casual gamers. At this point a lot of the PS5 buyers are still early adopters. More casual owners will come in with the slim version and Spiderman 2 launch.
 
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I'd say the chances are better than zero.

Even if Switch outsells PS5 this year, there is 0% chance they generate more hardware revenue than Sony. Or gaming revenue in general.

They might outperform PlayStation in net profit but given the lower production costs & logistics the new PS5s will have, combined with sales from Spiderman 2 and other 1P games like MLB, and PSVR2, the profits between them and Nintendo should be pretty close I feel.
 

James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
I am saying relative to games like Mario Kart and fucking MLB the Show which is by no means as popular as Fifa and Madden, it has underperformed. I dont know if i said this already, but GT7 and HFW took almost 5 years to make and cost way more than a yearly franchise like MLB the show. Like 5-10x more. I highly doubt Sony is happy with those numbers.

Not really a fair comparison. MLB is an entire sport, hugely popular, and available on multiple platforms.

Cost to develop shouldn’t factor into it. These sports franchises are all cheap to churn out.

Mario Kart is an evergreen casual/party game that gets purchased whenever a Switch is sold. GT is far more niche.
 
Even if Switch outsells PS5 this year, there is 0% chance they generate more hardware revenue than Sony. Or gaming revenue in general.

They might outperform PlayStation in net profit but given the lower production costs & logistics the new PS5s will have, combined with sales from Spiderman 2 and other 1P games like MLB, and PSVR2, the profits between them and Nintendo should be pretty close I feel.

Theres no chance switch outsells PS5 this year. PS5 will rise and switch is on the decline.
 

Azurro

Member
It's a hybrid console, the Switch lite is a handheld.

Why do people keep throwing out this point? It's tablet hardware encased in a portable shell with a screen, that sells for a cheaper price and that can't run the games on the more performant market segments that targets a different type of consumer.

Having an HDMI output does not change this.
 
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