NPD December 2022 and for the year 2022: #1 MW2 #2 Pokemon #3 God of War; NSW #1 Units (PS5 #2) PS5 #1 Revenue (NSW #2)

James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
I keep saying this, but this is on Phil and he needs to go. Whatever he's doing is not enough. he had $8 billion to spend at the start of the year and he wasted them on starfield and redfall. two games that were always coming to xbox. use that money to get Fable, Perfect Dark and Avowed out faster.

This proves what I’ve been saying all along

Value > Price

Phil doesn’t get that. XSS is a failure. Cheap console that nobody wants. Complicated the market place and development, and not achieving the intended sales goal.

I bet MS thought they had a slam dunk in the US with a big price gap. Sony went for the right value. And provided consumers with highly desirable games.

Phil is 100% a number crunching suit, and that doesn’t work in this industry. Sony is the Apple of the gaming industry and consumers will pay more for it.
 

SlimySnake

The Contrarian
This proves what I’ve been saying all along

Value > Price

Phil doesn’t get that. XSS is a failure. Cheap console that nobody wants. Complicated the market place and development, and not achieving the intended sales goal.

I bet MS thought they had a slam dunk in the US with a big price gap. Sony went for the right value. And provided consumers with highly desirable games.

Phil is 100% a number crunching suit, and that doesn’t work in this industry. Sony is the Apple of the gaming industry and consumers will pay more for it.
XSS is a weird little console. While it's true that it hasnt help them outsell the PS5 like they thought it would, it is probably the only reason why they have remained somewhat competitive. Majority of the XS sales have been the XSS. We dont know the exact split but ive reports dating back to 2021 that it was above 50%. The XSX is finally in stock so that ratio might have gone down a bit, looking at the flat sales over the last few months, it doesnt look like the XSX availability has made a dent.

What I am saying is that if it wasnt for the XSS, the Xbox wouldve sold far fewer units. Assuming they are around 20 million sold so far, it's safe to assume that the XSX wouldve been under 10 million sold compared to the 30 million PS5s out there. Those are OG Xbox, Wii U and Gamecube numbers. Expected considering the disastrous gen they had last gen in terms of exclusive software, but 20 million is fairly respectable and they dont get there without the cheap $300 SKU that brought in casuals, albeit a smaller than expected number of them.

You have to wonder if the XSS was greenlit because Phil knew he couldnt produce enough XSXs to meet demand or because he couldnt afford to make 20 million were that very being sold for a $200 loss like that report said. If Sony can ship 30 million PS5s, why is Phil only able to ship 10 million or XSXs? That XSS probably saved his ass by inflating sales numbers and keeping MS very competitive in the NA for the first year and half during the pandemic. Probably helped him keep his job now that i think about it.
 
Last edited:

James Sawyer Ford

Gold Member
XSS is a weird little console. While it's true that it hasnt help them outsell the PS5 like they thought it would, it is probably the only reason why they have remained somewhat competitive. Majority of the XS sales have been the XSS. We dont know the exact split but ive reports dating back to 2021 that it was above 50%. The XSX is finally in stock so that ratio might have gone down a bit, looking at the flat sales over the last few months, it doesnt look like the XSX availability has made a dent.

What I am saying is that if it wasnt for the XSS, the Xbox wouldve sold far fewer units. Assuming they are around 20 million sold so far, it's safe to assume that the XSX wouldve been under 10 million sold compared to the 30 million PS5s out there. Those are OG Xbox, Wii U and Gamecube numbers. Expected considering the disastrous gen they had last gen in terms of exclusive software, but 20 million is fairly respectable and they dont get there without the cheap $300 SKU that brought in casuals, albeit a smaller than expected number of them.

You have to wonder if the XSS was greenlit because Phil knew he couldnt produce enough XSXs to meet demand or because he couldnt afford to make 20 million were that very being sold for a $200 loss like that report said. If Sony can ship 30 million PS5s, why is Phil only able to ship 10 million or XSXs? That XSS probably saved his ass by inflating sales numbers and keeping MS very competitive in the NA for the first year and half during the pandemic. Probably helped him keep his job now that i think about it.

That’s one way to think of it but we don’t know if a good chunk of those XSS buyers would have bought an XSX if it were the only available Xbox
 

Mozza

Member
Why do people keep throwing out this point? It's tablet hardware encased in a portable shell with a screen, that sells for a cheaper price and that can't run the games on the more performant market segments that targets a different type of consumer.

Having an HDMI output does not change this.
Why do some seem obsessed with letting people know it's a mobile handheld device, the power of the console is moot, the Switch can be used as a handheld console or docked as a home console connected to a T.V. Nintendo advertised it as this right from the start, the name Switch should give a slight indication of this. You see it as a handheld fair enough, to me it's a less powerful home console, as this is the way I use it with the pro controller.
 
Last edited:

Topher

Gold Member
Why do some seem obsessed with letting people know it's a mobile handheld device, the power of the console is moot, the Switch can be used as a handheld console or docked as a home console connected to a T.V. Nintendo advertised it as this right from the start, the name Switch should give a slight indication of this. You see it as a handheld fair enough, to me it's a less powerful home console, as this is the way I use it with the pro controller.

The point he is making is that Switch operates in a different market segment and he is correct. The games that are popular on Switch are not the same games that are popular on Xbox/PS. I get your point that it is a hybrid, but it is still in a different class because of the fact that it is also a handheld and thus has a much lower power level. To me, this is a good thing because the popularity of Switch means developers are making games like Triangle Strategy (which I love) that they may have not made at all without Switch being around. At the same time, you are not going to play A Plague Tale natively on Switch and why would anyone want to? I didn't buy Switch to play the same games as the more powerful consoles. I bought Switch because it offered games the more powerful consoles do not have.
 
Last edited:

Mozza

Member
The point he is making is that Switch operates in a different market segment and he is correct. The games that are popular on Switch are not the same games that are popular on Xbox/PS. I get your point that it is a hybrid, but it is still in a different class because of the fact that it is also a handheld and thus has a much lower power level. To me, this is a good thing because the popularity of Switch means developers are making games like Triangle Strategy (which I love) that they may have not made at all without Switch being around. At the same time, you are not going to play A Plague Tale natively on Switch and why would anyone want to? I didn't buy Switch to play the same games as the more powerful consoles. I bought Switch because it offered games the more powerful consoles do not have.
Agree with the market the Switch is operating in, but regardless of the market they are in, they are all home consoles, the Switch just has the ability to be used as a handheld too, which is why I stated it was a hybrid. Take the Wii U for instance, people call that a home console, although in reality it's concept was very similar to the Switch, main difference being the tablet is the console on the Switch.
 
Last edited:

Azurro

Member
Agree with the market the Switch is operating in, but regardless of the market they are in, they are all home consoles, the Switch just has the ability to be used as a handheld too, which is why I stated it was a hybrid. Take the Wii U for instance, people call that a home console, although in reality it's concept was very similar too the Switch, main difference being the tablet is the console on the Switch.

It's fine if you connect it to your TV, however this is a sales thread and I think that differentiating in what markets they operate is very important for discussion, because people make all sorts of comparisons that frankly do not make sense and discussion gets bogged down in those. It's a more accessible product price wise, as fas as I know, attachment rate isn't as good as in home consoles, and it's not a replacement good for an Xbox/PS/PC, but rather a complementary one to those.
 

Deerock71

Member
It's fine if you connect it to your TV, however this is a sales thread and I think that differentiating in what markets they operate is very important for discussion, because people make all sorts of comparisons that frankly do not make sense and discussion gets bogged down in those. It's a more accessible product price wise, as fas as I know, attachment rate isn't as good as in home consoles, and it's not a replacement good for an Xbox/PS/PC, but rather a complementary one to those.
I believe the Switch may have broken a billion in software sales, or is very close to it. At roughly 120 million units, that's a pretty decent attach rate.
 
Greenberg needs to be sorted out.
Do you mean ... spanking or something?

Coming Soon Wink Wink GIF by Age Of Empires Community
 
Yearly NPD winners from 1994, the 2022 number hasn't been leaked yet so it is just an estimation by users from InstallBase

1994: GEN - 3,27M
1995: SNES - 2,32M
1996: PS1 - 1,99M
1997: PS1 - 5,05M
1998: PS1 - 7,11M
1999: GMB - 7,21M
2000: GMB - 6,84M
2001: PS2 - 6,18M
2002: PS2 - ~8,50M
2003: GBA - ~7,70M
2004: GBA - ~7,10M
2005: PS2 - ~5,50M
2006: NDS - ~5,30M
2007: NDS - ~8,50M
2008: WII - 10,17M
2009: NDS - 11,19M
2010: NDS - 8,56M
2011: 360 - 7,24M
2012: 360 - 5,31M
2013: 3DS - 3,81M
2014: PS4 - 4,68M
2015: PS4 - 5,72M
2016: PS4 - 5,10M
2017: PS4 - 5,45M
2018: NSW - 5,64M
2019: NSW - 6,48M
2020: NSW - 8,98M
2021: NSW - 7,61M
2022: NSW - 5,80M

Using neogaf, resetera and Ludostrie.

I wonder if the Switch wasn't supply constrained in 2020 could it have challenged the peak years of Wii and DS. This year Switch became the first platform to win five yearly NPD's in a row beating the previous record held by .... PS4. I suppose with the utter failure of Wii U and underperformance of 3DS and Xboxone (compared to their predessors) the PS4 had a clean run to four straight wins.
 
Last edited:
I don't know if this has been posted yet but here are leaked numbers for PS5 and XBS from June to November by Aquamarine on Installbase. Lifetime by the end of November 2022 was 10.59 million for PS5 and 8.74 million for XBS, so a lead of 1.85 million for PS5. The December numbers haven't been leaked yet.

PS5 US NPD HW:
Jun-22: 277K
Jul-22: 301K
Aug-22: 341K
Sep-22: 494K
Oct-22: 456K
Nov-22: 1328K
LTD as of Nov-22: 10592K

XBX US NPD HW:
Jun-22: 260K
Jul-22: 247K
Aug-22: 251K
Sep-22: 288K
Oct-22: 261K
Nov-22: 730K
LTD as of Nov-22: 8736K

December estimate from the current data by User Astral_lion02 on InstallBase

December 2022 estimate:

NSW - 1,5M
PS5 - 1,4M
XBS - 0,9M

YTD 2022 estimate:

NSW - 5,8M <36%>
PS5 - 5,7M <36%>
XBS - 4,4M <28%>
PS4 - 0,1M <0%>

ALL - 16M <100%>

LTD as December 2022 estimate:

NSW - 39,4M
PS5 - 11,9M
XBS - 9,6M
 
Last edited:
I don't know if this has been posted yet but here are leaked numbers for PS5 and XBS from June to November by Aquamarine on Installbase. Lifetime by the end of November 2022 was 10.59 million for PS5 and 8.74 million for XBS, so a lead of 1.85 million for PS5. The December numbers havn't been leaked yet.

PS5 US NPD HW:
Jun-22: 277K
Jul-22: 301K
Aug-22: 341K
Sep-22: 494K
Oct-22: 456K
Nov-22: 1328K
LTD as of Nov-22: 10592K

XBX US NPD HW:
Jun-22: 260K
Jul-22: 247K
Aug-22: 251K
Sep-22: 288K
Oct-22: 261K
Nov-22: 730K
LTD as of Nov-22: 8736K

December estimate from the current data by User Astral_lion02 on InstallBase

December 2022 estimate:

NSW - 1,5M
PS5 - 1,4M
XBS - 0,9M

YTD 2022 estimate:

NSW - 5,8M <36%>
PS5 - 5,7M <36%>
XBS - 4,4M <28%>
PS4 - 0,1M <0%>

ALL - 16M <100%>

LTD as December 2022 estimate:

NSW - 39,4M
PS5 - 11,9M
XBS - 9,6M
It has been. The last 3 pages were pretty much all about that 😛

Let's see what Microsoft shares (or doesn't share) in today's financial reports.
 
It has been. The last 3 pages were pretty much all about that 😛

Let's see what Microsoft shares (or doesn't share) in today's financial reports.
No problem, anyway the biggest surprise was the under performance by XBS in November which is usually Xbox's strongest month relative to the competition. It's also the worst November the Xbox brand has had since the days of the OG Xbox, the 360/One era never had a November that bad when they were the primary Xbox console.
 
Last edited:
No problem, anyway the biggest surprise was the under performance by XBS in November which is usually Xbox's strongest month relative to the competition. It's also the worst November the Xbox brand has sold since the days of the OG Xbox, the 360/Xboxone era never had a November that bad when it was the primary Xbox console.
Yep, -44% worse performance by XSX|S than Xbox One.
 

Ronin_7

Member
I don't know if this has been posted yet but here are leaked numbers for PS5 and XBS from June to November by Aquamarine on Installbase. Lifetime by the end of November 2022 was 10.59 million for PS5 and 8.74 million for XBS, so a lead of 1.85 million for PS5. The December numbers haven't been leaked yet.

PS5 US NPD HW:
Jun-22: 277K
Jul-22: 301K
Aug-22: 341K
Sep-22: 494K
Oct-22: 456K
Nov-22: 1328K
LTD as of Nov-22: 10592K

XBX US NPD HW:
Jun-22: 260K
Jul-22: 247K
Aug-22: 251K
Sep-22: 288K
Oct-22: 261K
Nov-22: 730K
LTD as of Nov-22: 8736K

December estimate from the current data by User Astral_lion02 on InstallBase

December 2022 estimate:

NSW - 1,5M
PS5 - 1,4M
XBS - 0,9M

YTD 2022 estimate:

NSW - 5,8M <36%>
PS5 - 5,7M <36%>
XBS - 4,4M <28%>
PS4 - 0,1M <0%>

ALL - 16M <100%>

LTD as December 2022 estimate:

NSW - 39,4M
PS5 - 11,9M
XBS - 9,6M
Xbox at 199 failing to crack 1M in the US where they've like 50-60% of overall brand market share...

Yeah this Gen WW will be a bloodbath unless Call of Duty becomes exclusive, it's the only way out right now, I see why MS is desperate for Activision.
 
Xbox at 199 failing to crack 1M in the US where they've like 50-60% of overall brand market share...

Yeah this Gen WW will be a bloodbath unless Call of Duty becomes exclusive, it's the only way out right now, I see why MS is desperate for Activision.
Well COD won't be exclusive because it makes too much money on Playstation but Elder Scrolls VI could bring a few million people over, personally i will get the cheap series S when Elder Scrolls VI comes out. Nothing else would get me to by an Xbox Series console, if you are not a PC gamer then Microsoft are forcing you to get their console and for me it's the nostalgia for Oblivion and Skyrim that will get me to cave in.
 

onQ123

Member
Too bad that December's data are missing since it was PS5 best month ever.
Xbox took a huge defeat last holiday season, gap is even bigger than it was during the typical holiday season in the previous gen and that's with a huge price advantage with the Series S and a subscription service giving away many games day one at a cheap price.
Phil's strategy of focusing on cheap prices to attract the casual market isn't paying off, they need games.
The crazy part is that usually the holidays is when Xbox make up for the slow months .
 

Ronin_7

Member
Well COD won't be exclusive because it makes too much money on Playstation but Elder Scrolls VI could bring a few million people over, personally i will get the cheap series S when Elder Scrolls VI comes out. Nothing else would get me to by an Xbox Series console, if you are not a PC gamer then Microsoft are forcing you to get their console and for me it's the nostalgia for Oblivion and Skyrim that will get me to cave in.
That game unlikely to launch on current gen.

Bethesda is a small studio, they're like half of Naughty Dog, people expecting TES before 2027 are in for a rude awakening.
 

reksveks

Member
I don't know if this has been posted yet but here are leaked numbers for PS5 and XBS from June to November by Aquamarine on Installbase. Lifetime by the end of November 2022 was 10.59 million for PS5 and 8.74 million for XBS, so a lead of 1.85 million for PS5. The December numbers haven't been leaked yet.

PS5 US NPD HW:
Jun-22: 277K
Jul-22: 301K
Aug-22: 341K
Sep-22: 494K
Oct-22: 456K
Nov-22: 1328K
LTD as of Nov-22: 10592K

XBX US NPD HW:
Jun-22: 260K
Jul-22: 247K
Aug-22: 251K
Sep-22: 288K
Oct-22: 261K
Nov-22: 730K
LTD as of Nov-22: 8736K

December estimate from the current data by User Astral_lion02 on InstallBase

December 2022 estimate:

NSW - 1,5M
PS5 - 1,4M
XBS - 0,9M

YTD 2022 estimate:

NSW - 5,8M <36%>
PS5 - 5,7M <36%>
XBS - 4,4M <28%>
PS4 - 0,1M <0%>

ALL - 16M <100%>

LTD as December 2022 estimate:

NSW - 39,4M
PS5 - 11,9M
XBS - 9,6M

If US accounts for 60% of xbox sales, then that means xbox only sold 7.5m worldwide for 2022. Yikes! If that percentage is higher then worldwide is even lower than 7.5m. Microsofts desperation for 3rd party publishers is starting to make sense..
 
If US accounts for 60% of xbox sales, then that means xbox only sold 7.5m worldwide for 2022. Yikes! If that percentage is higher then worldwide is even lower than 7.5m. Microsofts desperation for 3rd party publishers is starting to make sense..
XSX|S is also struggling in the UK and tracking behind Xbox 360 as well as Xbox One. I posted this data in another thread:

Based on the last official report, yes. But things may have changed since then.
  • Based on the recent NPD data we got. Xbox S|X performed 44% worse than Xbox One did in 2014, 2015, and 2016 in the US.
  • In other regions, it is worse. For instance, X|S still hasn't surpassed 2M units in the UK even after 115 weeks. Xbox One and Xbox 360 reached the milestone in 104 and 110 weeks, respectively. So Series X|S is selling worse in the UK than both 360 and Xbox One.
It'd be interesting to see if Microsoft releases an updated statement soon that X|S is still tracking ahead. Otherwise, it'd be safe to assume that it's no longer the case worldwide.
 
Not a single sales milestone given for Xbox Series in that investor's call. They had to re-use a point about Series S they've already mentioned in the past IIRC.

Yeah, fairly confident now Series is currently tracking behind XBO. If we add the guessimated 900K for Xbox's December, that brings it to 17.6 million Xbox Series sold-through as of end of 2022. That's at least 400K behind XBO. At best, they are currently tracking at XBO levels or so little ahead that it could be construed as within the margin of error, but IF they were tracking ahead, we'd of gotten a vague mention of it in the investor's call.

I'm not even saying Series sales right now are bad per se, but it does say a lot that they are tracking behind or (at best) barely even with XBO, considering what that system went through. Then again, if you look back at XBO's offerings up to its 26th month, it actually...wasn't all that bad. They had actual exclusives, for starters, and an arguably stronger start than PS4 with exclusive AAA games. They had TitanFall, Quantum Break, Killer Instinct, Dead Rising 3, Ryse, etc. Series have had almost none of these advantages and are up against a PS5 stronger at this point than PS4 was in its first two years on the market.

I guess in that context, them tracking about even with XBO (or only behind by ~ 400K or so), isn't THAT bad, but it should also be acknowledged they would probably have been tracking worst if Sony didn't have PS5 supply issues in the backend of 2021 and into the early months of 2022. Also even though Series are tracking ~ even with XBO (or slightly behind), it's debatable their hardware revenue is anything close to XBO's, considering the Series S's pricing and the steep discounts it got over the holidays helping contribute to a lot of what sales did come through.

Even though I said Series sales aren't "that" bad, the fact they are losing market share in the US, Xbox's strongest market traditionally, should be at least a bit concerning for Microsoft. We'll see what they can do (in terms of actual games, marketing and the such) to turn things around.

XSX|S is also struggling in the UK and tracking behind Xbox 360 as well as Xbox One. I posted this data in another thread:

Wow. If that's true, then yeah, they would definitely be tracking behind XBO at this point and by more than 400K. I think this is just the result of clashing parts of their strategy working their effect.

All 1P games Day 1 on PC reduces the need for an Xbox console. Series S value proposition isn't boosted enough by Game Pass to deter from fact that you can get a much more capable PS5 for just $100 more or, if you're REALLY about casual games, you probably also want them portable in which case the Switch would be more to your tastes. Virtually no marketing for Series X but, it's a bit hard to advertise "most powerful console" when most of the games don't show it.

Microsoft will have to make some drastic changes for the brand in multiple areas; whether those involve trying to keep Xbox on the traditional console business model or (the better option IMO) shifting it towards a more PC gaming-centric device model a la Valve with Steam Deck & Steam Machines, is going to be interesting to see unfold.
 
Last edited:

reksveks

Member
Not a single sales milestone given for Xbox Series in that investor's call. They had to re-use a point about Series S they've already mentioned in the past IIRC.

Yeah, fairly confident now Series is currently tracking behind XBO. If we add the guessimated 900K for Xbox's December, that brings it to 17.6 million Xbox Series sold-through as of end of 2022. That's at least 400K behind XBO. At best, they are currently tracking at XBO levels or so little ahead that it could be construed as within the margin of error, but IF they were tracking ahead, we'd of gotten a vague mention of it in the investor's call.

I'm not even saying Series sales right now are bad per se, but it does say a lot that they are tracking behind or (at best) barely even with XBO, considering what that system went through. Then again, if you look back at XBO's offerings up to its 26th month, it actually...wasn't all that bad. They had actual exclusives, for starters, and an arguably stronger start than PS4 with exclusive AAA games. They had TitanFall, Quantum Break, Killer Instinct, Dead Rising 3, Ryse, etc. Series have had almost none of these advantages and are up against a PS5 stronger at this point than PS4 was in its first two years on the market.

I guess in that context, them tracking about even with XBO (or only behind by ~ 400K or so), isn't THAT bad, but it should also be acknowledged they would probably have been tracking worst if Sony didn't have PS5 supply issues in the backend of 2021 and into the early months of 2022. Also even though Series are tracking ~ even with XBO (or slightly behind), it's debatable their hardware revenue is anything close to XBO's, considering the Series S's pricing and the steep discounts it got over the holidays helping contribute to a lot of what sales did come through.

Even though I said Series sales aren't "that" bad, the fact they are losing market share in the US, Xbox's strongest market traditionally, should be at least a bit concerning for Microsoft. We'll see what they can do (in terms of actual games, marketing and the such) to turn things around.
Just to make sure we are all aware, that was for the previous earnings call. I just wanted to see what the forecast for this Q was.
 
XSX|S is also struggling in the UK and tracking behind Xbox 360 as well as Xbox One. I posted this data in another thread:

Aw c'mon!! 🤣 OK well, spoken too soon I guess.

That still gives a chance they could be tracking slightly ahead of XBO (very slightly, have to stress), but that assume they sold at least 1 million in December and, well, that may be a stretch. I'm unsure where their numbers are in the UK, I just threw 2 million for 2022 in there for Xbox but that might be overly generous. Don't think there are any UK sales numbers around, sadly.
 

reksveks

Member
Later today I think. Xbox results going by NPD & MC probably won't be touched.
I know, in prep for the call later today (something like 9pm bst) I wanted to see what the forecast was in October for the quarter just completed.

Summary would be low to mid teens across HW and SW.
 
Last edited:
If US accounts for 60% of xbox sales, then that means xbox only sold 7.5m worldwide for 2022. Yikes! If that percentage is higher then worldwide is even lower than 7.5m. Microsofts desperation for 3rd party publishers is starting to make sense..
Well PS5 is probably going to be around 14 to 15 million for 2022 when we get the official update next week so around 2 to 1 for the year.
 
Later today I think. Xbox results going by NPD & MC probably won't be touched.

Guess the best we can hope for in terms of Xbox Dec #s is another leak. Someone on InstalledBase gave their own estimate of 900K; dunno what methodology they used for I'm going with that for the time being until something else comes about.

I'd really be interested in UK #s, but they aren't vital (I'm trying to figure as best as possible what WW sold-through for Xbox would've been at end-of-2022. So for whatever reason, I'm just saying they're at 3 million in the UK right now but I know that number's too high).
 
Aw c'mon!! 🤣 OK well, spoken too soon I guess.

That still gives a chance they could be tracking slightly ahead of XBO (very slightly, have to stress), but that assume they sold at least 1 million in December and, well, that may be a stretch. I'm unsure where their numbers are in the UK, I just threw 2 million for 2022 in there for Xbox but that might be overly generous. Don't think there are any UK sales numbers around, sadly.
Gamesindustry.biz always shares articles when consoles hit 1M and 2M in the UK. Xbox hasn't hit 2M yet.



 
Guess the best we can hope for in terms of Xbox Dec #s is another leak. Someone on InstalledBase gave their own estimate of 900K; dunno what methodology they used for I'm going with that for the time being until something else comes about.

I'd really be interested in UK #s, but they aren't vital (I'm trying to figure as best as possible what WW sold-through for Xbox would've been at end-of-2022. So for whatever reason, I'm just saying they're at 3 million in the UK right now but I know that number's too high).
Xbox 3M in UK? That's extremely high and would pollute your entire data. Even PS5 isn't at 3M. It'd be around 2.4-2.6M in the UK, at best.

XSX|S would be around 1.7-1.8M in the UK. I'd suggest revisiting your numbers. I shared the articles above quoting you.
 
Last edited:
Series S is a failure full stop. Now that Sony solved PS5 supply the WW Numbers willl begin to hurt, 3:1 is on the table.

Series X can still do some good Numbers but MS can't manufacture much apparently.

Xbox at 199 failing to crack 1M in the US where they've like 50-60% of overall brand market share...

Yeah this Gen WW will be a bloodbath unless Call of Duty becomes exclusive, it's the only way out right now, I see why MS is desperate for Activision.

Episode 5 Reaction GIF by Heels


Slow down there. I don't expect Xbox to overtake PlayStation but I don't think things will be so bad for them.
 
Episode 5 Reaction GIF by Heels


Slow down there. I don't expect Xbox to overtake PlayStation but I don't think things will be so bad for them.
I understand the negative sentiment around sales. The current situation doesn't look promising at all.

- This is their worst-performing Holiday season in like 15 years.
- XSX|S sold less than what Xbox One did in 2014, 2015, and 2016 (which are considered some of the worst years for Xbox console)
- Xbox One was $400. Series S was available for $229. It still couldn't hit those numbers.
- Microsoft is taking up to $200 loss per console sold.
- The above data was for US alone (which has always been Xbox's strongest market).
- XSX|S is also pacing behind Xbox 360 and Xbox One in the UK now.
 
I understand the negative sentiment around sales. The current situation doesn't look promising at all.

- This is their worst-performing Holiday season in like 15 years.
- XSX|S sold less than what Xbox One did in 2014, 2015, and 2016 (which are considered some of the worst years for Xbox console)
- Xbox One was $400. Series S was available for $229. It still couldn't hit those numbers.
- Microsoft is taking up to $200 loss per console sold.
- The above data was for US alone (which has always been Xbox's strongest market).
- XSX|S is also pacing behind Xbox 360 and Xbox One in the UK now.

Dang...MS needs some stuff to happen for them this year.
 
Episode 5 Reaction GIF by Heels


Slow down there. I don't expect Xbox to overtake PlayStation but I don't think things will be so bad for them.

I would say being 14m units behind your competitor already is quite bad. The NPD leak really surprised me. I thought xbox was alot more competitive but PS5 is dominating in the US way more than I expected. This is definitely bad for Microsoft because sony already have a stranglehold on the rest of the world.
 

Woopah

Member
It's fine if you connect it to your TV, however this is a sales thread and I think that differentiating in what markets they operate is very important for discussion, because people make all sorts of comparisons that frankly do not make sense and discussion gets bogged down in those. It's a more accessible product price wise, as fas as I know, attachment rate isn't as good as in home consoles, and it's not a replacement good for an Xbox/PS/PC, but rather a complementary one to those.
Any analysis should of course acknowledge the three manufacturers' different strategies and take that into account. That doesn't chnage the fact that PS5, Switch and Xbox Series all compete in the same dedicated video game deivce market, and should be compared as such. That is why all the major market trackers compare them.

Some people will buy a Xbox Series to compliment their PS5, will other people will buy a PS5 to compliment their Switch. All those sales will show up the same as these NPD reports are tracking sales not usage. A PS5 bought as a primary platform and a PS5 bought as complementary platform still count as 1 sale each.
 

onQ123

Member
I understand the negative sentiment around sales. The current situation doesn't look promising at all.

- This is their worst-performing Holiday season in like 15 years.
- XSX|S sold less than what Xbox One did in 2014, 2015, and 2016 (which are considered some of the worst years for Xbox console)
- Xbox One was $400. Series S was available for $229. It still couldn't hit those numbers.
- Microsoft is taking up to $200 loss per console sold.
- The above data was for US alone (which has always been Xbox's strongest market).
- XSX|S is also pacing behind Xbox 360 and Xbox One in the UK now.
Then there is software sales Xbox hasn't had a breakout hit since Kinect Adventures while Nintendo & PlayStation releasing games that sale 10 & 20 million units but on the bright side they are finally capitalizing on PC gaming with Gamepass.
 

yazenov

Member
Yeah, that's a good point. It reminds me of this.




As evidence points out, he was wrong in his assessment of the industry and strategy.

It just shows the main problem with Xbox comes from the top echelon's strategy and thinking. They are far removed from the ground realities of the gaming industry and continuously fail to realize what gamers actually want.

On top of it, add the following to the mix, and I've no idea what Microsoft leadership must be thinking right now. How do they steer this ship?


Yeah, it's pretty alarming that the higher-ups at MS are so out of touch with the gaming industry that it does not look good for the future of Xbox.

The fact that they were trying to push the Series S instead of the Series X at the beginning of the generation is hilarious to begin with, as the target consumer segment who generally are the early adopters care more about features and specs rather than price AKA the hardcore consumers. The series S should have been pushed aside till later in the generation as history has shown with the cheaper "slim" models in the past generations when price-conscious consumers come into play.
Xbox fans who were quick to praise the "genius" move by MS when they introduces the Series S models are nowhere to be seen. They were premature in celebrating the inferior product for some reason.

The other big mistake was the arrogance of thinking that Gamepass AKA the best deal in gaming and the Netflix of gaming was a disruptor of the industry, without any basis to back it up and without releasing any content with it. Again they were celebrating Gamepass and touting it as the model everyone should follow, including the market leaders somehow? Yeah, I found it strange that all those threads about why Sony the market leader should follow MS's lead in releasing all their 1st party titles on day one on the streaming service and lose billions of dollars in the process.
People must have forgotten that Gamepass was still around during the Xbox one days and it didn't move the needle, just like it didn't move the needle now for the Series S/X.
 
Last edited:

onQ123

Member
Yeah, it's pretty alarming that the higher-ups at MS are so out of touch with the gaming industry that it does not look good for the future of Xbox.

The fact that they were trying to push the Series S instead of the Series X at the beginning of the generation is hilarious to begin with, as the target consumer segment who generally are the early adopters care more about features and specs rather than price AKA the hardcore consumers. The series S should have been pushed aside till later in the generation as history has shown with the cheaper "slim" models in the past generations when price-conscious consumers come into play.
Xbox fans who were quick to praise the "genius" move by MS when they introduces the Series S models are nowhere to be seen. They were premature in celebrating the inferior product for some reason.

The other big mistake was the arrogance of thinking that Gamepass AKA the best deal in gaming and the Netflix of gaming was a disruptor of the industry, without any basis to back it up and without releasing any content with it. Again they were celebrating Gamepass and touting it as the model everyone should follow, including the market leaders somehow? Yeah, I found it strange that all those threads about why Sony the market leader should follow MS's lead in releasing all their 1st party titles on day one on the streaming service and lose billions of dollars in the process.
People must have forgotten that Gamepass was still around during the Xbox one days and it didn't move the needle, just like it didn't move the needle now for the Series S/X.
If it wasn't for Series S there wouldn't even be a new Xbox .
 

onQ123

Member
There would be a Series X though. Don't understand why you can't have one without the other. I mean Sony only has a PS5 and not a PS5 S.
Microsoft has the data that told them that Xbox Series X wouldn't survive on its own.

They would be abandoning ship right now if Series S wasn't around to make up most of the sales.
 

Poltz

Member
Xbox really needs Starfield to hit. The US market picking a PS5 and $70 games over the Series S and game pass is not a good look. No wonder they stopped reporting numbers.
 

yazenov

Member
Microsoft has the data that told them that Xbox Series X wouldn't survive on its own.

They would be abandoning ship right now if Series S wasn't around to make up most of the sales.

If it wasn't for Series S there wouldn't even be a new Xbox .

I disagree. There is a tone of historical data from past generations that shows why no one releases two different specs models at launch probably for the following reasons: 1- manufacturing and a logistic nightmare; 2-avoid confusing consumers with different options. And 3- leave room for price reductions down the line with mass manufacturing and reduced cost of materials.

I'm sure there are tons of internal data from the past generations of successful market leaders that we do not have access to that shows why the Series S was a gamble that no one has done before, for a good reason. MS tried and failed. Their analysis should be fired.
 
Last edited:

onQ123

Member
What data?
PS4 & Xbox One continued to move a lot more units than PS4 Pro & Xbox One X then there is the data that they have today which places Series X at 10 million at the most without Series S with PS5 at 30 million this would be PS2 vs OG Xbox all over again if it wasn't for Series S . Devs would be running to PS5 & leaving Xbox out.
 
Top Bottom