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NPD October 2012 Sales Results [Up3: NBA, MoH, NSMB2 + History, Pokemon, RE6]

shinra-bansho

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Nov 13, 2011
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What are the current best guestimates for HW besides the 360? Has there been anything more accurate than the minimum's based on M/M for weekly sales?

Also where does the 213K minimum in the OP come from for the 3DS? From last month's numbers I get a minimum of ~195K.
 

metalslimer

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Jun 9, 2012
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3DS needs it Pokemon game right now. I think 3D monsters finally could have a big impact and get a lot of people interested. If I was Nintendo for next year I would try and get some combo of these out next year:

Majora's Mask 3D (I honestly don't see why they're so against it when it would be the easiest money maker they could do with the OoT 3D engine)
Pokemon Gen 6 (probably won't be out in the west but will in Japan)
Donkey Kong Country game
Smash Bros 3DS
New Kirby game

And try to get out some new IPs or revivals. What they absolutely cannot do is leave the 3DS hanging while they focus on Wii U. I think the they should avoid Mario _____ completely for a least a year (I'm not counting Luigi and Donkey Kong). Let the IP rest on 3DS and kick it up on Wii U. Nintendo has got to create some momentum for their other franchises
 

jcm

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Dec 8, 2008
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Its sold at a profit for the last 3 or 4 months, 3ds is all gravy from here on in, I doubt it'll be long til it shows a profit overall (though wii u launch losses may hide it for a while)
I agree, at some point the project will be profitable. The person I was responding to is claiming that it is already a success, which seems premature. It's a machine selling for less money than planned, selling fewer units than planned, pushing less software than its predecessor, and has spent most of its life losing money.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Mar 10, 2011
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theflyingthoughtsblog.wordpress.com
3DS needs it Pokemon game right now. I think 3D monsters finally could have a big impact and get a lot of people interested. If I was Nintendo for next year I would try and get some combo of these out next year:

Majora's Mask 3D (I honestly don't see why they're so against it when it would be the easiest money maker they could do with the OoT 3D engine)
Pokemon Gen 6 (probably won't be out in the west but will in Japan)
Donkey Kong Country game
Smash Bros 3DS
New Kirby game

And try to get out some new IPs or revivals. What they absolutely cannot do is leave the 3DS hanging while they focus on Wii U. I think the they should avoid Mario _____ completely for a least a year (I'm not counting Luigi and Donkey Kong). Let the IP rest on 3DS and kick it up on Wii U. Nintendo has got to create some momentum for their other franchises
Majora's Mask? No. Not now.
Brand new Zelda? Oh yes, it's time.
All the other games you mentioned are good guesses for next year. Especially Kirby and Pokèmon. DKCR2 on 3DS is also something I dream about since I've played it 2 years ago, with all that playing with layers :D And obviously it's a very big seller.

And I think you're right about Pokèmon: 3D monsters would be considered the "event" which could generate big attention. We're seeing how NSMB2 isn't living up to its predecessors' standards ( I'd wait after the Holidays for a definitive opinion about it, but still) since it's not an "event". NSMB was the return of 2D Mario. NSMBWii was the return of 2D Mario on home consoles, with multiplayer for the first time. NSMB2 isn't an event in this sense; NSMBU, instead, is the return of a Mario title at launch on a Nintendo console, it's an "event" again.
 

metalslimer

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Jun 9, 2012
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The reason I say Majora's Mask 3D is because of how little resources it would take comparatively. They could probably have less than 20 people on it for a year and get it finished. A new Zelda probably won't be done until 2014 at the earliest.
 

donny2112

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Apr 18, 2005
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3DS needs it Pokemon game right now.
If it's a five-year product, then, yeah, but I don't think it's a five-year product. Nintendo can't appreciably up the tech in 3DS without encroaching on Wii U area (it is already ~= with Wii + more modern architecture), and they shouldn't want to, at all, since they're already overpriced for the U.S. market. 3DS could be around longer than the DS has, not because of phenomenal sales every year, but because they wouldn't want to up the tech again anytime soon and raise prices more. As long as piracy isn't taking over (one of the driving reasons to kick DS to the curb), 3DS could be around by necessity a long, long time. In which case, getting Pokemon 3DS in two years for the U.S. wouldn't be a horrible thing.

Note:
3DSi or some kind of backward-compatible with some new minor features would still be considered "continuing the 3DS life" in this scenario.
 

frankie_baby

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May 3, 2007
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The reason I say Majora's Mask 3D is because of how little resources it would take comparatively. They could probably have less than 20 people on it for a year and get it finished. A new Zelda probably won't be done until 2014 at the earliest.
They could probably have 10 people do it in 4 months, personally wouldn't be surprised if its already been made and its just sitting in a cupboard somewhere ready to be put out whenever Nintendo deem appropriate
 

Sandfox

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Jan 25, 2012
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The reason I say Majora's Mask 3D is because of how little resources it would take comparatively. They could probably have less than 20 people on it for a year and get it finished. A new Zelda probably won't be done until 2014 at the earliest.
They would just need to get GREZZO on it. It would probably be better to get a new Zelda out first though.
 

lunchwithyuzo

Banned
Jun 20, 2010
11,040
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The 3DS's trajectory appears to be worse than the DS's for both hardware and software. The LTD numbers are somewhat deceptive, due to the DS's slow start.
Software is mixed, some franchises have improved, others have decreased. I'm not sure if there's been an overall decline though, if so I'd love to see those numbers?


Retro shouldn't be making Donkey Kong if Nintendo wants to try to get any PS3/360 gamers to buy the WiiU (as Retro can actually make games they would be interested in) and I don't know what other developers Nintendo has that could make DK other than EAD Tokyo who probably won't.
Retro has two teams now, I'm sure the new team can do a 3DS Donkey Kong game while the main team works on their Wii U blockbuster.


I agree, at some point the project will be profitable. The person I was responding to is claiming that it is already a success, which seems premature. It's a machine selling for less money than planned, selling fewer units than planned, pushing less software than its predecessor, and has spent most of its life losing money.
A loss per unit doesn't mean an unprofitable overall business, which is what you seem to be missing. Gamecube makes a good example as it launched at a small loss per unit which Nintendo claimed was covered by the sale of one 1st party game. Nintendo's never said 3DS overall was an unprofitable venture, and there's no real indications to assume it is given the majority of their losses were always laid at currency fluctuations.
 

metalslimer

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Jun 9, 2012
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If it's a five-year product, then, yeah, but I don't think it's a five-year product. Nintendo can't appreciably up the tech in 3DS without encroaching on Wii U area (it is already ~= with Wii + more modern architecture), and they shouldn't want to, at all, since they're already overpriced for the U.S. market. 3DS could be around longer than the DS has, not because of phenomenal sales every year, but because they wouldn't want to up the tech again anytime soon and raise prices more. As long as piracy isn't taking over (one of the driving reasons to kick DS to the curb), 3DS could be around by necessity a long, long time. In which case, getting Pokemon 3DS in two years for the U.S. wouldn't be a horrible thing.

Note:
3DSi or some kind of backward-compatible with some new minor features would still be considered "continuing the 3DS life" in this scenario.
I honestly don't see the 3DS sticking around (without a successor) for more than 5-5.5 years. The level of tablets and other devices being offered for only 199 is staggering right now. In 3 years the 3DS will look like a terrible value proposition in the face of what will most certainly be vastly more powerful hardware with many features. Unless the next 3DS is a revision is a drastic departure I think the next Nintendo handheld will be a pretty drastically different from Nintendo's previous handhelds. At some point Nintendo's handheld and console markets will converge. It's just a matter of if it's this gen of next gen imo.
 

jcm

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Dec 8, 2008
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Software is mixed, some franchises have improved, others have decreased. I'm not sure if there's been an overall decline though, if so I'd love to see those numbers?
3DS software TTM: 46.90M from quarter ending Sep 2012
NDS software TTM: 79.81M from quarter ending Sep 2006

A loss per unit doesn't mean an unprofitable overall business, which is what you seem to be missing. Gamecube makes a good example as it launched at a small loss per unit which Nintendo claimed was covered by the sale of one 1st party game. Nintendo's never said 3DS overall was an unprofitable venture, and there's no real indications to assume it is given the majority of their losses were always laid at currency fluctuations.
They had a company-wide operating loss, didn't they?
 

Eusis

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Apr 15, 2011
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They had a company-wide operating loss, didn't they?
They HAVE been preparing for Wii U while the Wii crashed and burned, it's plausible the 3DS would've needed to be an amazing break out hit globally to counter that.

Also: those software numbers include nearly two years for the 3DS, and about a year and a half for 3DS. And one holiday season in the case of 3DS.
 
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If it's a five-year product, then, yeah, but I don't think it's a five-year product. Nintendo can't appreciably up the tech in 3DS without encroaching on Wii U area (it is already ~= with Wii + more modern architecture), and they shouldn't want to, at all, since they're already overpriced for the U.S. market. 3DS could be around longer than the DS has, not because of phenomenal sales every year, but because they wouldn't want to up the tech again anytime soon and raise prices more.
I don't think this is even an issue. There is a huge gap between the 3DS and wii U powerwise. I think they could easily release a new handheld without jumping all the way to wii U level power (in fact i'd say that's what they will do). Also as technology improves i doubt it would even have to cost them all that much more. Personally i wish they would get rid of the 3D technology next time which would be a big money saver and no one really gives a crap about it anyway.

So what'd be better for the 3DS in the West? A new Pokemon or a bunch of small franchises in a constant flow? (Fire emblem, F-Zero, Luigis's, Paper, etc.)
Pokemon is by far the most important IP in handheld gaming and would affect sales more than even 20 games of the size you're talking about. I don't think nintendo should rush it though, they need to knock this next pokemon game out of the park and it will be huge for the 3DS.
 

jcm

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Dec 8, 2008
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Are these including DD btw
Yes, and bundles too, but not dsiware.

They HAVE been preparing for Wii U while the Wii crashed and burned, it's plausible the 3DS would've needed to be an amazing break out hit globally to counter that.

Also: those software numbers include nearly two years for the 3DS, and about a year and a half for 3DS. And one holiday season in the case of 3DS.
TTM is trailing twelve months. The numbers I listed are for the twelve months prior, so each has one holiday.
 

Frankfurter

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Jul 18, 2005
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3DS software TTM: 46.90M from quarter ending Sep 2012
NDS software TTM: 79.81M from quarter ending Sep 2006


Considering the time span from launch, it actually makes more sense to take the TTM period until Jun 2006 for NDS software, which leads to 63 million, as a comparison to the TTM period until Sep 2012 for 3DS. Still quite a bit higher, but not as much as your comparison shows.

At the end of September 2006 NDS had been on the market for ~22/~22.33/~18.66 months (JP/USA/EU), while at the end of September 2012 3DS had been on the market for ~19/~18/~18 months (~2.66 months longer for DS using non-weighted averages).
 
Aug 30, 2007
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I don't think there is much surprise seeing the amount of software sold and i assume most of the deficit comes from the west. The software line-up for the 3DS is still pretty damn average.

Would it be wise to release a new 3DS Pokemon game at this point in time when Black & White 2 just came out?
The earliest anyone is talking about is 12 months away so i don't think B & W2 is even an issue.
 

frankie_baby

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May 3, 2007
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Yes, and bundles too, but not dsiware.



TTM is trailing twelve months. The numbers I listed are for the twelve months prior, so each has one holiday.
Your figures are pretty dodgy though as the ds had been available at that point for longer than the 3ds in the period you are using for comparison, also I don't think shop only games are included
 

boiled goose

good with gravy
Oct 30, 2007
12,846
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What 3DS needs is localization of all the games developed for it and a re haul of the online account system and store.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Mar 22, 2007
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The earliest anyone is talking about is 12 months away so i don't think B & W2 is even an issue.
I saw some mention of "3DS needs a Pokemon game right now" earlier, that is why i wondered. I know that Nintendo wont release a 3DS Pokemon game now, mostly because it is probably not done developed. But i was thinking if they had a 3DS Pokemon game ready at this time, would it be wise to release it now.
 

lunchwithyuzo

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Jun 20, 2010
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3DS software TTM: 46.90M from quarter ending Sep 2012
NDS software TTM: 79.81M from quarter ending Sep 2006
What are the ltds launch aligned? I know Japan's total is lower for 3DS vs DS, which is due chiefly to the Touch Generations boom on the latter.

And do we have an American figure? It'd be nice to bring the discussion back on topic.


They had a company-wide operating loss, didn't they?
Yes, but not attributed to 3DS being a net unprofitable venture. This isn't PS3 scale hardware losses we're dealing with here.


Yes, and bundles too, but not dsiware.
I thought it was only DD versions of retail software, and eShop only games weren't counted?
 
Aug 30, 2007
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I saw some mention of "3DS needs a Pokemon right now" earlier, that is why i wondered. I know that Nintendo wont release a 3DS Pokemon game now, mostly because it is probably not done developed. But i was thinking if they had a 3DS Pokemon game ready at this time, would it be wise to release it now.
The 3DS is their current platform and pokemon will be the biggest game it will ever recieve (and imo could be huge for the franchise). Pokemon 3DS should take priority over everything else.
 

donny2112

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Apr 18, 2005
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The level of tablets and other devices being offered for only 199 is staggering right now.
Getting in a tech race with devices offering $0.99 games is corporate suicide, unless Nintendo is going to get into $0.99 games, which they aren't. If they want to continue to offer fuller handheld experiences, which is their stated goal, a tech race with tablets is about the dumbest thing they could be interested in.

In 3 years the 3DS will look like a terrible value proposition in the face of what will most certainly be vastly more powerful hardware with many features.
So Vita, but with $0.99 games? Nintendo should not ever try to go into a war with a platform built on free and $0.99 games, unless they're giving up their full-priced handheld games, which they aren't.

At some point Nintendo's handheld and console markets will converge. It's just a matter of if it's this gen of next gen imo.
Stupid opinion is still stupid no matter who tries to put it forward. This was dumb when DrGakman said it years ago. This was dumb when beast### said it some months ago. It's dumb as you're saying it now. Giving up two profitable revenue streams for one is just a ridiculous proposition and makes absolutely no sense as long as they can keep each stream profitable in its own right.

Edit:
I think Sony has really muddied the water on what's expected from a handheld platform. PSP could be seen as trying to converge with PS2. PSV could be seen as trying to converge with PS3. Nintendo has never tried to go that route and have purposefully even kept tech down for price and to not be competing with themselves in the console space. They want separate experiences for the separate platforms in order to justify separate revenue streams. That's something Sony seemed not to get, and it's something people who suggest combining Nintendo's handheld and console platforms seem not to get, as well.
 

test_account

XP-39C²
Mar 22, 2007
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The 3DS is their current platform and pokemon will be the biggest game it will ever recieve (and imo could be huge for the franchise). Pokemon 3DS should take priority over everything else.
That is true. I'm wondering how the overlapping would be however, when B&W2 just came out and a 3DS Pokemon game would be out in maybe a few months.

Nintendo are doing it with New Super Mario Bros 2 and New Super Mario Bros WiiU. Not 100% similar due to it being a handheld and a console, but still a similar situation. Only time will tell how it works out.


How come Sony and Nintendo don't give out their numbers anymore?

I'm baffled.
Probably because that the numbers arent that strong. When they start being the top selling system or getting a nice boost in sales, then maybe we will hear something. I think there is a fair chance that there will be a PR statement from both Nintendo and Sony (and Microsoft as well) after this year's Black Friday.
 

donny2112

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Apr 18, 2005
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How come Sony and Nintendo don't give out their numbers anymore?
Sony hasn't since NPD gave them an out by not releasing the hardware numbers themselves, anymore. Nintendo hasn't since it became not pretty for them, anymore. Expect some numbers from Nintendo for next couple of months, but probably obfuscated numbers, if anything, from Sony.
 

jvm

Gamasutra.
Jun 22, 2004
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Stupid opinion is still stupid no matter who tries to put it forward. This was dumb when DrGakman said it years ago. This was dumb when beast### said it some months ago. It's dumb as you're saying it now. Giving up two profitable revenue streams for one is just a ridiculous proposition and makes absolutely no sense as long as they can keep each stream profitable in its own right.
I'm not outright disagreeing with you, donny2112, but I am getting a very sustaining-technology feeling from this line of argument. It feels like that moment right before an established market leader is utterly destroyed by a disruptive technology. The management for the leader keeps focused like a laser on profitable technology streams right up until the moment when the world shifts and they simply aren't anymore.

I think it's a decent bet that the existing market will be disrupted by a company making a handheld and console in one. Like what Microsoft is going to do next year, I suppose. Or what Sony could have done if they'd used the game streaming tech to make their handheld market something Nintendo and Microsoft and Apple and Google could only dream of.

Or, more likely, what Apple could do if it wanted to.

That is, Nintendo may not be able to survive by combining console and handheld in one, but the company that leads the market next could succeed by doing so from below.
 

NeonZ

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I think the 3DS needs Pokemon, but it has to be a completely new Pokemon with 3d graphics and complete change of the old presentation (Not using 3d models to recreate the current map sprites).

If we somehow get a 2d game or even a 3d game that doesn't look visually different from the 2d ones (keeps the current perspective for the world map, just replacing the sprites with 3d models that still use those same proportions and general style, Pokemon battles still aren't really "animated" in spite of changing to 3d models - probably using battle speed as an excuse), I think we might see the lowest selling main Pokemon games.

That is true. I'm wondering how the overlapping would be however, when B&W2 just came out and a 3DS Pokemon game would be out in maybe a few months.
As long as we get a 3d pokemon title that looks completely different from the previous ones on a superficial level, I don't think they'll have any problem. They'll have issues though if the 3DS pokemon game somehow still ends up looking similar to the previous entries in spite of the likely transition to 3d.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Mar 10, 2011
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When we look at software numbers, we must look also at what's composing them. In Japan, 3DS sold 10 million games less than DS launch aligned, but there are far more third party success stories than DS' first years. How? Because most of those millions lost were Nintendo titles, not just Touch Generation titles. Nintendo released far more retail titles on DS in its first 18 months than on 3DS. This can be applied to other regions too.

Ah, Nintendo's most recent number (last results and forecasts) include eShop sales of digital versions of retail titles, not eShop only titles ( for example: Crosswords Plus digital sales are counted, since it's a retail tittle too, while Sakura Samurai sales aren't)
 

metalslimer

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Stupid opinion is still stupid no matter who tries to put it forward. This was dumb when DrGakman said it years ago. This was dumb when beast### said it some months ago. It's dumb as you're saying it now. Giving up two profitable revenue streams for one is just a ridiculous proposition and makes absolutely no sense as long as they can keep each stream profitable in its own right.
And what I'm saying is that the battle with tablets and smartphones may make a dedicated handheld a very risky proposition say in 2016/2017. It may very well be worth it then, but at some point dedicated handhelds won't be viable outside of Japan. I don't think they should get into a tech battle though. If not a handheld hybrid, I believe going as cheap as possible is the way to go and don't think 169-199 is going to be a recipe for success. By the way, I'm sure people would have called it "dumb" 7years ago for Nintendo to drop the GB line and go with the DS or to completely forego traditional console for something like the Wii.
 

CadetMahoney

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How come Sony and Nintendo don't give out their numbers anymore?

I'm baffled.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese business culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. When you're coming from PS2 marketshare and you lose that much the very next gen. . .
 

donny2112

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That is, Nintendo may not be able to survive by combining console and handheld in one, but the company that leads the market next could succeed by doing so from below.
The problem with this line of thinking is that it's focused on the technology. What can be done, if the market leader isn't willing to. The Achilles heel of such thinking is that the market leader isn't the market leader because of its tech. It's market leader because of its games, which are, for the most part of the most successful ones, wholly owned. Yes, "sustaining technologies" isn't an unreasonable way to phrase it. The market leader (i.e. Nintendo in the traditional handheld video game space) is laser-focused on profits at the expense of dominating the world with their idea of how it should be done. Nintendo wants the casual $0.99 gamer, and is willing to go a good ways to get them on-board with their systems. However, I believe they'd be willing to give them up to remain doing what they want to do in the handheld space. They'd just have to figure out how to get back to doing this in a profitable way.

Edit:
In other words, video games are about entertainment and not tech. If a company can marginalize Nintendo's advantage in relative gaming entertainment value and trump them on tech (this part isn't hard to do), then, yeah, Nintendo's gonna be in a bad spot.

If not a handheld hybrid, I believe going as cheap as possible is the way to go and don't think 169-199 is going to be a recipe for success.
Which as jvm will attest, I've been suggesting in several threads. Nintendo needs their handhelds to be much more impulse buys, and that's typically around the $99 mark in the U.S.

By the way, I'm sure people would have called it "dumb" 7years ago for Nintendo to drop the GB line and go with the DS
Which is why Nintendo didn't do that. They kept up the "third pillar" mantra just in case DS did not succeed.

or to completely forego traditional console for something like the Wii.
Nintendo were probably on the verge of being forced out of the console space if their next system sold even less worldwide than the GameCube. Therefore, there wasn't much for them to lose by gambling on something like the Wii that did not forego traditional gaming, at all, and instead chose to focus on opening up the controls vs. diving directly into HD tech level gaming.
 

jvm

Gamasutra.
Jun 22, 2004
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Nintendo were probably on the verge of being forced out of the console space if their next system sold even less worldwide than the GameCube. Therefore, there wasn't much for them to lose by gambling on something like the Wii that did not forego traditional gaming, at all, and instead chose to focus on opening up the controls vs. diving directly into HD tech level gaming.
I'd like to take up a further conversation, but I've a column to finish. I do want to ask you about the bolded part here. Do you think that if Nintendo had pitched the Wii in a different way, one that pointed out it could do traditional hardcore gaming (albeit not necessarily everything the Xbox 360 and PS3 were doing) and new control methods, that it would have turned out differently?

That is, do you think evangelizing the system in the right way could have changed the tide?

Sorry if I missed your point. Not intentional.
 

Currygan

at last, for christ's sake
Jul 7, 2012
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So what'd be better for the 3DS in the West? A new Pokemon or a bunch of small franchises in a constant flow? (Fire emblem, F-Zero, Luigis's, Paper, etc.)
Pokemon, no question about it. While it would seem that even that franchise's influence has diminished a bit, Gen VI and the long awaited 3D together would create unprecedented hype, because a completely new set of monsters+completely new graphics will be, basically, a new starting point for the serie. Pokemon 3DS with such features would alone move millions of machines, and it's pretty much Nintendo's last ace card for the West. Just throw it out there and corroborate the momentum with new games which will finally solidify those not so hot NPD sales
 

DrWong

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So what'd be better for the 3DS in the West? A new Pokemon or a bunch of small franchises in a constant flow? (Fire emblem, F-Zero, Luigis's, Paper, etc.)
I think MH Ultimate, alongside the Wii U cross features, could be a solid, if not big, seller in March. Pokemon for the end of the year would move a lot of units. Another thing Nintendo will do is a price cut. Don't forget the 3DS is still priced higher than the DS at this time in their respectives lifes. I also can see more 3DS/Wii U releases "à la" next SSMB. There's also a Zelda coming and if done well it could be bigger than the latest handheld episodes. They also can (and will) release a new 3DS/XL model with better camera, battery, storage, perhaps NFC to mimic some Wii U features and reinforce the cross ability, and whatever they come with. Miiverse is also coming with the account system... Lot of stuff which could sustain/improve sales.
 

jcm

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Considering the time span from launch, it actually makes more sense to take the TTM period until Jun 2006 for NDS software, which leads to 63 million, as a comparison to the TTM period until Sep 2012 for 3DS. Still quite a bit higher, but not as much as your comparison shows.

At the end of September 2006 NDS had been on the market for ~22/~22.33/~18.66 months (JP/USA/EU), while at the end of September 2012 3DS had been on the market for ~19/~18/~18 months (~2.66 months longer for DS using non-weighted averages).
You're right. Your comparison is better than mine. The whole point of TTM comparison is to smooth out seasonality, so your comp is the right way to do it.

I think my original point still stands, though.
 

Exterminieren

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Mar 1, 2011
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Pokemon, no question about it. While it would seem that even that franchise's influence has diminished a bit, Gen VI and the long awaited 3D together would create unprecedented hype, because a completely new set of monsters+completely new graphics will be, basically, a new starting point for the serie. Pokemon 3DS with such features would alone move millions of machines, and it's pretty much Nintendo's last ace card for the West. Just throw it out there and corroborate the momentum with new games which will finally solidify those not so hot NPD sales
Black and White sold more than 14 million on a near-dead console. I think referring to the franchise as diminished is a bit much.
 

Currygan

at last, for christ's sake
Jul 7, 2012
34,740
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Black and White sold more than 14 million on a near-dead console. I think referring to the franchise as diminished is a bit much.
I was referring to the sequels, which, while still selling well, will have an hard time moving that amount by the end of their cycle. I will be really surprised if they do, honestly. Yet, new gen, new graphics and exclusivity on a new console would surely create a bigger impact and the 3DS needs exactly that to become a must-buy console for the masses. That, and perhaps another pricecut
 

donny2112

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I'd like to take up a further conversation, but I've a column to finish. I do want to ask you about the bolded part here.
I may have made the sentence a little difficult to understand. metalslimer was saying that Nintendo could've been called dumb by shifting the Wii to "completely forego traditional console" gaming. Before addressing the point about being called dumb, I wanted to completely rebuff the idea that Nintendo had foregone traditional console gaming as this was totally not the case. Nintendo absolutely still had traditional console gaming on Wii, but they 1) often added some motion into the mix for better or worse and 2) didn't join the HD tech era for that traditional console gaming with Wii. They just added the new non-traditional gamer/casual gamer stuff (e.g. Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wii Fit) to the mix of their traditional franchise titles (e.g. Mario Kart Wii, Super Mario Galaxy, Zelda, Metroid). They still provided a traditional gaming environment, at least through the early years. (Support across both sides has faded in the last few years, though.)

Do you think that if Nintendo had pitched the Wii in a different way, one that pointed out it could do traditional hardcore gaming (albeit not necessarily everything the Xbox 360 and PS3 were doing) and new control methods, that it would have turned out differently?
They would say that in interviews, and they would show that with their games. But when it came to advertising, they went with the casual angle mostly, yes. Nintendo stated a few times in the early parts of Brain Age/Wii launch that reaching the non-traditional market required a much larger marketing budget than reaching the traditional market. I think they could've found a much better balance than what they did, though, absolutely, in how the advertised Wii games.

Metroid Prime 3 was a huge example. Back in August 2007, it was like Nintendo was all the way ignoring the launch. They had that Metroid Prime Wii Channel, which only the active internet-connected Wii owners might've even had a chance of knowing about, and they mixed in Metroid Prime 3 with the "Wii would like to play" guys, which was probably a mistake (mixed messages as to what the focus was; traditional/non-traditional). However, there wasn't a big marketing push for the game, and you pretty much had to be looking for it to even know it was coming. Therefore the fact that it took the first real big step is showing the value of FPS gaming with the Wiimote was overlooked by anyone who wasn't looking for it in the first place. Of course even if they had gone all out on MP3, it wouldn't have made CoD4 come to Wii in 2007, which was the driving force for FPSs in the generation.

That is, do you think evangelizing the system in the right way could have changed the tide?
If they had pushed more with advertising and evangelizing their own traditional efforts, it might've helped some, but third-parties were still geared up big time for HD development (i.e. the logical next step after PS2 generation). Therefore, Nintendo still would've needed to incentivize certain games (e.g. CoD4 in 2007) to come to Wii along with upping their own efforts to make known the traditional gaming abilities of Wii. Really, Nintendo was sort of screwed the moment they decided to focus on going off the beaten path with motion/pointer controls being the main face of the system (remember that the nunchuk was only added later after teams like Retro begged Nintendo to include it) instead of doing that and following along the HD tech race. HD development needs mutli-platform, so an HD Wii would've gotten a lot of that support just as a matter of course, if it was an easy port job to the system.

Advertising alone wouldn't have made up that gap, though, no, in my opinion, but it probably wouldn't have hurt.
 

Exterminieren

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I was referring to the sequels, which, while still selling well, will have an hard time moving that amount by the end of their cycle. I will be really surprised if they do, honestly. Yet, new gen, new graphics and exclusivity on a new console would surely create a bigger impact and the 3DS needs exactly that to become a must-buy console for the masses. That, and perhaps another pricecut
That isn't really a case of a diminished franchise as it is having realistic expectations for the titles. While they undoubtedly have more improvements that normal, they are definitely seen as the traditional third versions by the public, and have been generally performing a bit better than previous titles like Platinum and Emerald. It's evidence of an upswing from the (relative) low of the third generation, not a great downfall.
 

Hero

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Hindsight is 20/20, you can't really say Nintendo would've been better off if they had appealed to the hardcore demographic more in the Wii's first few years. Nintendo just couldn't do their regular franchises in addition to the new Wii ____ intellectual properties that came out. Hopefully with all the investments they've been making they can satisfy both this generation.