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NPD Sales Results for April 2016 [Sony, MS, & Nintendo refuse to comment on hardware]

slavesnyder

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The original claim came from Rex and you are saying he's right, the burden is on you.
Pardon me, but I don't get all the details on this fighting game discussion. What's the question actually?
SF4 having done nothing?
There was nothing after SF4?
Fighting games are in decline generally?
Fighting games are dead and done?

I always thought SF4 did fine (didn't it?). Mortal Kombat does fine, Smash is a sure shot anyway. Killer instinct showed a clever new way of monetising that could be a role model for the future.
So there is money to be made.

I agree that fighting games were much bigger in the PS2 era, but honestly, that goes for a lot of genres that are not fps.

That SF5 is a shameful disaster is no news and should not be taken as proof. It's just proof that you should think before you ship a game.

I'd really like to see what a PSallstars2 could do if done right.
 

Bronetta

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Does anyone have numbers on how Bayonetta 2 did? I know it wasn't a breakthrough success or anything but curious how it did. The fact that it got a reprint a few months back has to be a good sign.
 

NeoMetallix

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Gran Turismo Sport will Sell good worldwide, bad in the US.

It won't even Sell Close to Mario Kart both worldwide, let's don't talk about US...
It'll probably do 3M+ in the US after a few years which is on par with every GT so far barring GT3 but GT3 was bundled with PS2s in N/A inflating numbers.

GT has brand recognition among even non gamers. Everytime I play DriveClub my non gamer friends ask if it's GT and say it's the only racing game they know.
 

Ryng_tolu

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It'll probably do 3M+ in the US after a few years which is on par with every GT so far barring GT3 but GT3 was bundled with PS2s in N/A inflating numbers.

GT has brand recognition among even non gamers. Everytime I play DriveClub my non gamer friends ask if it's GT and say it's the only racing game they know.
Wut
 

RexNovis

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The original claim came from Rex and you are saying he's right, the burden is on you.
If you want proof of SFIV's effect in the genre you can look at average sales of games in the genre before and after its release. It's night and day. You can also look at the viewership and participation levels for pro competitive fighting games pre and post SFIV release and you'll see a sharp incline following the release of the game.

I honestly can't believe someone is arguing that SFIV didn't have an effect on the mass market viability of the genre. It's widely accepted that it was integral to the resurgence we've seen in popularity and success. For example, the fills behind Mortal Kombat specifically cite the success of SFIV as the reason they were allowed to make a full scale MK reboot as opposed to the hum drum mediocre brand tie ins they had been making and the results for the MK reboot definitely speak for themselves.
 

Voost Kain

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I think he has a small point, Imo I think SFIVs impact for fighting games outside the hardcore us a bit exaggerated. However I wouldn't argue it did nothing unlike racecar.

The real debate is why FPS is still the most popular genre after 8 years of oversaturation last gen


I mean, FPS games aren't a bad thing but it's clearly blocking the way of others genres, especially for some companies that shouldn't be making them.

I mean at this point it's been an 11 year race to the bottom. Even Blizzard is doing it now. How many of these fps even had passable sales let alone successes? It's like no one learned there lesson.
 

RexNovis

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I think he has a small point, Imo I think SFIVs impact for fighting games outside the hardcore us a bit exaggerated.
Nope. It's absolutely not. Did you miss the part of my post where I explained how SFIV's unexpected success freed up NetherRealm studios to actually reboot MK which has gone on to be a phenomenal success for fighting games in the mainstream? SFIV impact on the genre's revival and renewal in mass consumer interest cannot be understated.

However I wouldn't argue it did nothing unlike racecar.
I literally have no idea what this means.

The real debate is why FPS is still the most popular genre after 8 years of oversaturation last gen


I mean, FPS games aren't a bad thing but it's clearly blocking the way of others genres, especially for some companies that shouldn't be making them.

I mean at this point it's been an 11 year race to the bottom. Even Blizzard is doing it now. How many of these fps even had passable sales let alone successes? It's like no one learned there lesson.
How is this "the real debate?" Not only is it something nobody was debating but it's a debate that betrays a lack of understanding of both what a "genre" is and of the market.

First of all, you act as though FPS games are all the same. It's not a genre it's a type and it's a type that's flooded with an incredible variety of genres and game styles. There's room for lots of FPS because it's a very flexible archetype rife for exploration of so many different genres and gameplay experiences.

For an example look at Dishonored abd compare it to something like Borderlands or compare Doom to Tribes. Obviously people are much less likely to become burnt out if there's such a gamut of unique experiences to be had within a given archetype.

Secondly, there's also this:

Shooters are nowhere near the #1 genre in either sales or release count.

This thread man.
There are newer game types that have overtaken even FPS in sales and popularity it's just that console centric gamers are completely oblivious to their success as they are not generally common or even successful on platforms other than PC.
 

OrbitalBeard

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Nintendo usually has a few games like that every gen.
I can't think of a single Wii game with an attach rate like that, aside from Wii Sports, which was bundled with every console.

And aside from other bundled games, like Super Mario World on SNES, I can't think of anything on any other Nintendo console either. Certainly nothing had an attach rate that high on Gamecube or N64, for example
(Edit - Maybe Mario 64 did?).
 

Fat4all

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I can't think of a single Wii game with an attach rate like that, aside from Wii Sports, which was bundled with every console.

And aside from other bundled games, like Super Mario World on SNES, I can't think of anything on any other Nintendo console either. Certainly nothing had an attach rate that high on Gamecube or N64, for example
(Edit - Maybe Mario 64 did?).
Attach rates are wonky with the Wii because of how much it sold, but that doesn't mean they didn't sell a shit ton of certain games.
 
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If Gran Turismo Sport is an above=average game (80+ metascore) it is going to sell at least 5 million. I think it is still one of those IPs that still has considerable pull based on name alone. It doesn't hurt that PS4 exclusives are selling better than PS3 exclusives so far either.

For the most casual gamers Gran Turismo is probably easily the recognizable racing IPs along with Mario Kart. You don't sell 60+ million without that kind of brand recognition.
 

OrbitalBeard

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Attach rates are wonky with the Wii because of how much it sold, but that doesn't mean they didn't sell a shit ton of certain games.
Oh, definitely. I believe Mario Kart Wii sold over 30 million copies. And games like Wii Fit, Wii Sports Resort, and New Super Mario Bros. Wii were massive sellers as well. Like, insanely huge.
 
There are newer game types that have overtaken even FPS in sales and popularity it's just that console centric gamers are completely oblivious to their success as they are not generally common or even successful on platforms other than PC.
Action Adventure games are almost assuredly the biggest genre at this point regardless.

It's such a huge and wide genre.
 

Nightengale

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Bigger than MOBAs? I thought MOBA games were king of the hill these days. That and survival games seem to be all the rage.
MOBA has extremely limited release counts because MOBAs die before even getting into the market dominated by titans.

Also, the most popular MOBAs are free, so the transaction and sales are largely invisible.
 

RexNovis

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MOBA has extremely limited release counts because MOBAs die before even getting into the market dominated by titans.

Also, the most popular MOBAs are free, so the transaction and sales are largely invisible.
But they are still an inordinately large chunk of the current gaming pie when it comes to revenue. Or am I mistaken?
 

Primethius

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How many successful MOBAs are there even? I can only really think of 4-5 with 2 that have a disproportionately large share of the pie (or League basically being the pie).
 

RexNovis

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MOBA's are a weird genre to me I can't grasp for some reason like why is overwatch not considered moba but battleborn is, what makes paragon a moba?
MOBAs have in match leveling mechanics as well as AI trash mobs and a variety of map objectives one can complete to gain resources in order to purchase new equipment or upgrade materials. Generally the core objective of MOBA is capture or domination of the enemy base with lots of secondary objectives that support the core objective. MOBAs also have map layouts that contain things called lanes and control of these lanes is essential to the completion of the core objective as not only do the AI mobs path through these lanes but enemy defenses are set up in these lanes and the destruction of these defense pints allows progression towards the enemy base.

Overwatch is a hero shooter with no AI trash mobs or in match leveling mechanics and a single objective with a larger focus on direct PVP confrontation.

The only thing the Overwatch has in common with MOBAs is the use of archetypal Heros with unique abilities and skill sets but that's essentially where the similarities end.
 
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MOBAs have in match leveling mechanics as well as AI trash mobs and a variety of map objectives one can complete to gain resources in order to purchase new equipment or upgrade materials. Generally the core objective of MOBA is capture or domination of the enemy base with lots of secondary objectives that support the core objective. MOBAs also have map layouts that contain things called lanes and control of these lanes is essential to the completion of the core objective as not only do the AI mobs path through these lanes but enemy defenses are set up in these lanes and the destruction of these defense pints allows progression towards the enemy base.

Overwatch is a hero shooter with no AI trash mobs or in match leveling mechanics and a single objective with a larger focus on direct PVP confrontation.

The only thing the Overwatch has in common with MOBAs is the use of archetypal Heros with unique abilities and skill sets but that's essentially where the similarities end.
Wow thx a bunch this was pretty helpful.
 

RexNovis

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Wow thx a bunch this was pretty helpful.
Yep no worries. There seems to be a lot of confusion about what MOBAs are and why Overwatch is not one so I certainly don't mind clarifying. Hopefully this helps others understand the differences.

How many successful MOBAs are there even? I can only really think of 4-5 with 2 that have a disproportionately large share of the pie (or League basically being the pie).
Yep that sounds about right. While the number of MOBAs is small the population of and amount of revenue generated by the biggest MOBAs is just staggering compared to almost any other genre. Hence why I was under the impression they were top dog. But u very well could be mistaken.
 

gundamkyoukai

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I think gone are the days of saying stuff like FPS , Open world etc etc .
In these times games mix and match so much that just saying FPS for eg don't really tell you anything .
Like for eg Destiny and Division are the same type of game but one is in first person and the other is in 3rd person .
So when people say which genre is the most popular i wonder what they means sometimes.
 

donny2112

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Pardon me, but I don't get all the details on this fighting game discussion. What's the question actually?
SF4 having done nothing?
There was nothing after SF4?
Fighting games are in decline generally?
Fighting games are dead and done?
So we're saying the racing genre will be carried to future generations by Mario Kart, and the fighting genre will be carried to future generations by Smash.

 

slavesnyder

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So we're saying the racing genre will be carried to future generations by Mario Kart, and the fighting genre will be carried to future generations by Smash.
And the shooter genre will be carried over by... Anyone? Ryng?
Honestly, i think you are kind of right. I love tennis games, but all that's left is Mario Tennis. And no good one, that's the real drama. Nintendo is the reservate for extinct genres.
There seems to be a lot of confusion about what MOBAs are and why Overwatch is not one so I certainly don't mind clarifying. Hopefully this helps others understand the differences.
Thanks for explanations. This didn't elevate my interest for the genre, but it was very nice to get a definition.
 

Ryng_tolu

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Bundles surely played a notable part.
At launch, with bundle only count something like 7/8%, Mario Kart 8 got a >40% attach rate, in only one month...

Not to mention that tecnically the actual attach rate is closer to ~60% than ~50%. Worldwide.

In countries like Franch the Mario Kart 8 attach rate was ~85% in June 2015, with 500,000 unit of Mario Kart 8 and 590,000 Wii U sold.

Oh, definitely. I believe Mario Kart Wii sold over 30 million copies. And games like Wii Fit, Wii Sports Resort, and New Super Mario Bros. Wii were massive sellers as well. Like, insanely huge.
Mario Kart Wii sold almost 37 million
 

Voost Kain

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Nope. It's absolutely not. Did you miss the part of my post where I explained how SFIV's unexpected success freed up NetherRealm studios to actually reboot MK which has gone on to be a phenomenal success for fighting games in the mainstream? SFIV impact on the genre's revival and renewal in mass consumer interest cannot be understated.



I literally have no idea what this means.



How is this "the real debate?" Not only is it something nobody was debating but it's a debate that betrays a lack of understanding of both what a "genre" is and of the market.

First of all, you act as though FPS games are all the same. It's not a genre it's a type and it's a type that's flooded with an incredible variety of genres and game styles. There's room for lots of FPS because it's a very flexible archetype rife for exploration of so many different genres and gameplay experiences.

For an example look at Dishonored abd compare it to something like Borderlands or compare Doom to Tribes. Obviously people are much less likely to become burnt out if there's such a gamut of unique experiences to be had within a given archetype.

Secondly, there's also this:



There are newer game types that have overtaken even FPS in sales and popularity it's just that console centric gamers are completely oblivious to their success as they are not generally common or even successful on platforms other than PC.

I think it had more to do with rebooting MK9 in 2D than MK Itzel which never didn't sell well. But anyway I think you misread I didn't say it didn't do anything like racecar I said it was exaggerated, and it was, did we forget the fighters are dead thing and no one was really buying fighters before SFiv? Or how some companies would had went bankrupt without SfIV? It was exaggerated. But anyway Capcom ran that game into the ground and fucked up so it's moot.

But anyway when I say fps, I'm talking about consoles not pc. I'm pretty sure fps is still the biggest genre on consoles.

Also on consoles, but pc as well, the vast majority of successful fs and the vast majority of fps types in general are not really varied. Dishonored is an exception.

Street Fighter 4's biggest impact was making Mortal Kombat a thing again.

Thanks Capcom!
But it was already a thing...

Again, I think it helped them go back to 2D. Honestly, I think they should do both but that's just me.
 

Voost Kain

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I think gone are the days of saying stuff like FPS , Open world etc etc .
In these times games mix and match so much that just saying FPS for eg don't really tell you anything .
Like for eg Destiny and Division are the same type of game but one is in first person and the other is in 3rd person .
So when people say which genre is the most popular i wonder what they means sometimes.
Pretty damn easy to tell what a FPS and tps are.
 

blakep267

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Pretty damn easy to tell what a FPS and tps are.
I think he's saying an action adventure game can be both third or first person etc.

Ex. Overwatch is an objective based FPS. While Doom is also an FPS, but more of a first person shooter/ action adventure game. So maybe lumping games into just FPS and TPS is kinda limiting when a game could be doing the same thing as another game with just a different viewpoint
 

gundamkyoukai

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I think he's saying an action adventure game can be both third or first person etc.

Ex. Overwatch is an objective based FPS. While Doom is also an FPS, but more of a first person shooter/ action adventure game. So maybe lumping games into just FPS and TPS is kinda limiting when a game could be doing the same thing as another game with just a different viewpoint
Yep this is what i am saying .
 

CosmicQueso

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Dollar share trend of US physical by genre. Can't give numbers.



I am surprised by Shooter strength in 2015. I hadn't looked at this in a while and was assuming 2014 gap would hold. I was wrong. In 2015, about 3/4 of all shooter sales were for FPS.

For top-selling games by genre, the top 3 selling Fighters of the console gen in Units are MKX, Smash, UFC. For Racing it's Kart, NFS Rivals, Forza 5.
 

Shin-chan

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With how mixed games are these days, I'd say it's hard to actually differentiate between action adventure, shooter and RPG games. Maybe the lines will eventually just plateau at the same level lol
 

Chris1

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Dollar share trend of US physical by genre. Can't give numbers.



I am surprised by Shooter strength in 2015. I hadn't looked at this in a while and was assuming 2014 gap would hold. I was wrong. In 2015, about 3/4 of all shooter sales were for FPS.

For top-selling games by genre, the top 3 selling Fighters of the gen in Units are MKX, Smash, UFC. For Racing it's Kart, NFS Rivals, Forza 5.
Battlefront would have helped the 2015 increase. No battlefield in 2014 & Titanfall was only on Xbox. Doesn't help Ghosts and AW are the worst selling CoD's either. Doesn't really surprise me to see an increase last year.
 

slavesnyder

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With how mixed games are these days, I'd say it's hard to actually differentiate between action adventure, shooter and RPG games. Maybe the lines will eventually just plateau at the same level lol
Everything is hybrid these days. Single player games need multiplayer, career people need to be perfect parents, we learn with science podcasts while driving our hybrid car, we have smartphones, functional food, networking parties, all-in-one-entertainment-systems and so on. This will only get worse.

And you know what started this crap over 30 years ago?
shampoo and conditioner in one
And transformers