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NPD Sales Results for February 2009

John Harker

Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Feb 26, 2005
17,582
0
0
Santa Destroy
JJConrad said:
John, you're just full of it. You're cherry-picking whatever argument is the most pessimistic.

These sales don't support either part of your argument. You're already making baseless assumptions about Sega's expectation, as if they have no idea how other light-gun games have performed in the past. But then this talk about 'first month ROI' is utter nonsense. That 'first month ROI' is completely dependant on their initial shipment, which is in no way influenced by these sales. Sega made their money before NPD ever counted one sale. Poor sales only effect later shipments. You also claim that Sega had expected this game to be 'more front loaded,' but if that were true their accountants would actually then be less worried about later shipments.

I just don't see how 45k launch is anything but negative, and saying that Sega intends it to launch small cause its $50 and they will wait till hit hits 400k like REUC at $39 is really their intention and their baseline for success is far more of a baseless assumption than anything I proposed. And yes I'm focusing on the U.S.... clearly this is an NPD thread.
 

AniHawk

Member
Jun 7, 2004
74,679
8
1,595
A lot of Wii games shouldn't be $50. HotD Overkill is one of them. Didn't de Blob come out at $40? It wound up doing well. ToS2 did well at its price point too. Lightgun-type shooters in general aren't seen as much of a a value at $50 unless they come with something.
 

Cipherr

Member
Dec 15, 2007
28,065
1
1,025
Kansas City Missouri
^^^

Dude your the one who brought your imaginary ROI figures into the discussion. When you do that you transcend the US only and bring the worldwide figures into (which happen to look damn great and will be setting a LG shooter record soon). You can talk about a return on investment while talking about a single territory only. They put money into the launch in more than one region. And like it has been said many times before, you havent even allowed a decent amount of time fora "return" to even happen.

You've got two weeks, half a 100k in the US and some really good numbers in the UK. Cant draw anywhere near a solid conclusion from that. Yet you went so far as to try and argue an outright failure. So you got called on it.
 
John Harker said:
I just don't see how 45k launch is anything but negative, and saying that Sega intends it to launch small cause its $50 and they will wait till hit hits 400k like REUC at $39 is really their intention and their baseline for success is far more of a baseless assumption than anything I proposed. And yes I'm focusing on the U.S.... clearly this is an NPD thread.

Its how most Wii games work, so what all publishers are just shit out of luck because thats how the platform works?

There has not been 1 Sega Wii game that has sold a large amount (in this case 300k +) that did not get a $39 price adjustment, not even Mario and Sonic Olympics which price dropped 45 days on the market to spur more sales
 

John Harker

Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Feb 26, 2005
17,582
0
0
Santa Destroy
Puncture said:
^^^

Dude your the one who brought your imaginary ROI figures into the discussion. When you do that you transcend the US only and bring the worldwide figures into (which happen to look damn great and will be setting a LG shooter record soon). You can talk about a return on investment while talking about a single territory only. They put money into the launch in more than one region. And like it has been said many times before, you havent even allowed a decent amount of time fora "return" to even happen.

You've got two weeks, half a 100k in the US and some really good numbers in the UK. Cant draw anywhere near a solid conclusion from that. Yet you went so far as to try and argue an outright failure. So you got called on it.

First off, I do not think Sega U.S. is making any projections at all in what the European office is doing. Each region is responsible for their own sales targets. Why is everyone defense to cite other regions sales in a US NPD thread? I thought that stuff was an offense? I want this game to succeed, I'm not talking about it as an outright failure by any stretch of the imagination, where are you guys even getting these words from? The fact reminds it had a poor launch month, that's all I'm saying. The repeated arguments to look at European sales or 'wait for a price drop' do not at all refute the fact that 45k for a launch month for a heavily promoted title whose trying to build on the success of previous genre titles, and I'm saying, not replicate them, but build on them, supported with original development and an upfront marketing promotion, did not break out its first month. That's all. I want legs and I'd love to see it succesful at a 40 and 30 price point, but to say its Sega's intention to push it out at $50, get poor sales, and want it to match all the other lightgun games at a lower price point from the start is shortsighted and an excuse.
 

SilverLunar

Member
Oct 6, 2008
2,580
0
0
You know, HOTD might pull a Girl's Mode legs, both had a poor start, It was around the 60K i think when it launched, look at it now!

 

donny2112

Member
Apr 18, 2005
18,797
1
1,590
John Harker said:
First off, I do not think Sega U.S. is making any projections at all in what the European office is doing. Each region is responsible for their own sales targets. Why is everyone defense to cite other regions sales in a US NPD thread? I thought that stuff was an offense? I want this game to succeed, I'm not talking about it as an outright failure by any stretch of the imagination, where are you guys even getting these words from? The fact reminds it had a poor launch month, that's all I'm saying. The repeated arguments to look at European sales or 'wait for a price drop' do not at all refute the fact that 45k for a launch month for a heavily promoted title whose trying to build on the success of previous genre titles, and I'm saying, not replicate them, but build on them, supported with original development and an upfront marketing promotion, did not break out its first month. That's all. I want legs and I'd love to see it succesful at a 40 and 30 price point, but to say its Sega's intention to push it out at $50, get poor sales, and want it to match all the other lightgun games at a lower price point from the start is shortsighted and an excuse.

The game obviously did less than I expected in its first month. That said, this series, and apparently light-gun games in general, have shown tendencies to sell for quite a long time without huge first months. 45K in its first month isn't great, but it is also not an absolute negative. If it sells similarly in March, it may make February's sales seem more acceptable.
 

charsace

Member
Mar 23, 2007
26,595
0
0
SO would have done bad on the PS3 too. I've always thought american and european devs made better rpgs. Now that they are putting rpgs on consoles they are destroying the japanese developed rpgs. Combine this with the fact that most people got burnt last gen when they purchased a jrpg that didn't have final fantasy on the cover its not hard to see why jrpgs are failing.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Sep 9, 2006
27,409
3
0
charsace said:
SO would have done bad on the PS3 too. I've always thought american and european devs made better rpgs. Now that they are putting rpgs on consoles they are destroying the japanese developed rpgs. Combine this with the fact that most people got burnt last gen when they purchased a jrpg that didn't have final fantasy on the cover its not hard to see why jrpgs are failing.

It should have been multiplattform, case closed.
 

Loudninja

Member
Jul 30, 2007
53,088
3
0
32
Chicago
Hunahan said:
Star Ocean 4 had absolutely nothing going for it. No word of mouth whatsoever, no marketing, no press coverage, no buzz, a fatigued, overserved market who had just received a flood of RPGs only a few months prior, a heavily competitive release month with several high-profile, eclipsing titles....literally nothing going for it.

Beyond that, you have the fact that Tri-Ace's recent track record is anything but impressive. Star Ocean 3 left a bad taste in many peoples' mouths, the PSP remakes gathered next to no attention, and Infinite Undiscovery released as an extremely poor game that shied a lot of people away from Tri-Ace in general. As a developer brand, Tri-Ace is certainly not going to carry a product anymore.

So what does that leave? The game would have to stand on it's own merits. And, frankly, nothing about Star Ocean 4 really stood out in any meaningful way. It had absolutely no hook that was going to draw attention to itself from what I could tell, and without favorable market circumstances or developer brand power, it desperately needed one.

Of all the things that happened in the February charts, Star Ocean 4 doing poorly is really not surprising at all.

The more interesting topic of discussion, imo, is whether the announcement of PS3 being the official Evolution/tournament version of Street Fighter was the catalyst for higher proportional sales for that version of SF4. If true, it could indicate a much higher interest-level and sales presence of the "SRK crowd" than I would have personally thought to exist....

What?SO4 had alot of TV ads.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Oct 24, 2007
49,169
0
1,010
Holy shit at the Wii gaming talk from this dev on Invisible Walls. Could he be more biased and uninformed.

Nothing sells on Wii save Nintendo and Petz. Wii games never make back their budgets. Wii games are not cost effective. Wii has a lower attach rate than PS3.

What the what. Is this how many people in the industry see the Wii? Talk starts around 5 minutes in.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/46982.html

I'm interested in sales ages thoughts on this, but didnt think it deserved a thread. Also good for a laugh and a facepalm.
 

MarkusRJR

Member
Aug 13, 2007
8,615
0
930
www.geocities.com
HK-47 said:
Holy shit shit at the Wii gaming talk from this dev on Invisible Walls. Could he be more biased and uninformed.

Nothing sells on Wii save Nintendo and Petz. Wii games never make back their budgets. Wii games are not cost effective. Wii has a lower attach rate than PS3.

What the what. Is this how man people in the industry see the Wii? Talk starts around 5 minutes in.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/46982.html

I'm interested in sales ages thoughts on this, but didnt think it deserved a thread. Also good for a laugh and a facepalm.
I saw that earlier today and I was like, "shut the fuck up already". But it sadly went on and on until most of their Wii owner audience probably decided to close the video. I love that they say the highest a Wii game can cost to make is $600,000 (and they'll barely break even with that according to them) while they say most ps3/360 games that cost like 3-20 million make profit (according to them).
 

Eteric Rice

Member
Jan 13, 2007
16,608
160
1,205
HK-47 said:
Holy shit shit at the Wii gaming talk from this dev on Invisible Walls. Could he be more biased and uninformed.

Nothing sells on Wii save Nintendo and Petz. Wii games never make back their budgets. Wii games are not cost effective. Wii has a lower attach rate than PS3.

What the what. Is this how man people in the industry see the Wii? Talk starts around 5 minutes in.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/46982.html

I'm interested in sales ages thoughts on this, but didnt think it deserved a thread. Also good for a laugh and a facepalm.

I'm not going to even watch, I'll just get annoyed. -_-
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Sep 9, 2006
27,409
3
0
HK-47 said:
Holy shit shit at the Wii gaming talk from this dev on Invisible Walls. Could he be more biased and uninformed.

Nothing sells on Wii save Nintendo and Petz. Wii games never make back their budgets. Wii games are not cost effective. Wii has a lower attach rate than PS3.

What the what. Is this how man people in the industry see the Wii? Talk starts around 5 minutes in.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/46982.html

I'm interested in sales ages thoughts on this, but didnt think it deserved a thread. Also good for a laugh and a facepalm.


I think it deserves a thread, really. I was also kinda shocked by the bullshit that scarface guy was spitin, seems like he's still pissed because their scarface wii port didn't sell as much as he wanted to. that guy is crazy, did he really expect a ps2/xbox port to magically sell shitloads on the wii ? bitterness....

and madworld has to sell 3million for hm to consider it as sucess - that guy is a tool for real, the funny thing is that those ubisoft petZ games don't even sell that much in the us...

Yaceka said:
I saw that earlier today and I was like, "shut the fuck up already". But it sadly went on and on until most of their Wii owner audience probably decided to close the video. I love that they say the highest a Wii game can cost to make is $600,000 (and they'll barely break even with that according to them) while they say most ps3/360 games that cost like 3-20 million make profit (according to them).


the sad thing is that no one of these "game-jounalist" had the balls to speak up and tell him to shut the fuck up. call of Duty, de blob, boom blox, shaun white, guitar hero, lego games,tiger woods etc. sold all very well on wii the last month 3rd partys made more money on wii than on any other platform and we still are hearing such paroles.
 

Scrubking

Member
May 29, 2007
2,578
0
0
cw_sasuke said:
the sad thing is that no one of these "game-jounalist" had the balls to speak up and tell him to shut the fuck up.

None of them ever do, and it's enfuriating. They'd rather have access then get to the truth. Of course, most of these "journalists" believe all that shit about the Wii so they aren't going to question it.
 

Grecco

Member
May 3, 2006
21,525
0
0
Someone has to explain to me why people expected HOTD to sell? I cant for the life of me remember an on rails shooter charting, stuff like Time Crisis on PS3 for instance? Or HOTD 1-2, Ghost Squad ect.

I love on rails shooters, used to play them alot back in the day. The stuff namco produced Vampire Night/Ninja Assault and Segas confidential mission are some of my favorites

but this is a genre thats pretty niche now. Why else havent we gotten stuff like Lupin and Rambo in the US (Both games i really want to play)

so yeah HOTD bombed. Had to be expected.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Sep 9, 2006
27,409
3
0
Scrubking said:
None of them ever do, and it's enfuriating. They'd rather have access then get to the truth.


It`s always the same shit. First they bitch for months that apparently games like de blob, no more heroes and boom blox sell like shit, then we hear that the publishers were satisfied and announce successors to those games, and they search for new game to show just how bad 3rd party games sell on the wii.....

really funny how the wanted dev coudn`t even reply when shane asked him which 3rd party wii games even deserved blockbuster sales, since most of them were pretty cheap minigames or ports to begin with....

but yeah keep ignoring the many publsihers which got killed by the high development costs of HD games and celebrate your call of dutys
 

Eteric Rice

Member
Jan 13, 2007
16,608
160
1,205
I'd say it deserves a thread as well. I hope this isn't what publishers and developers alike think. If so, we're all fucked.
 

yoopoo

Banned
Mar 30, 2005
4,975
0
0
That developer later in episode: "I love Gamestop", "I buy all my game from Gamestop", "We can't survive without Gamestop" - "look at Blockbuster...they rent our games"

The dude sitting next to him "I have a Gamefly account..." :lol
 

donny2112

Member
Apr 18, 2005
18,797
1
1,590
HK-47 said:
Wii has a lower attach rate than PS3.

I believe that to be true. Of course I'm pretty sure that the Wii is about to pass the 360 in total software sold this generation, and that it should pass it up in total 3rd-party software sold by no later than early next year. So attach rate isn't everything. :lol
 

Sadist

Member
Feb 2, 2008
24,668
0
1,220
The Netherlands
i43.tinypic.com
HK-47 said:
Holy shit shit at the Wii gaming talk from this dev on Invisible Walls. Could he be more biased and uninformed.

Nothing sells on Wii save Nintendo and Petz. Wii games never make back their budgets. Wii games are not cost effective. Wii has a lower attach rate than PS3.

What the what. Is this how man people in the industry see the Wii? Talk starts around 5 minutes in.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/46982.html

I'm interested in sales ages thoughts on this, but didnt think it deserved a thread. Also good for a laugh and a facepalm.
SMH

I mean, there is so much wrong with all his assumptions. Only Nintendo games and Petz games. The guys were laughing at him though, serves him right. I mean come on, MadWorld needs to sell 3 to 4 million copies? My god, games on 360 and PS3 have to be commercial bombs of epic proportions.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Sep 5, 2004
66,964
8
1,590
Arakeen
SilverLunar said:
You know, HOTD might pull a Girl's Mode legs, both had a poor start, It was around the 60K i think when it launched, look at it now!



I think the success of Girls Mode actually helps guarantee the failure of proper video games. Not the opposite.
 
Apr 4, 2008
1,529
0
0
OuterWorldVoice said:
I think the success of Girls Mode actually helps guarantee the failure of proper video games. Not the opposite.

Heh, just you try and say that in the MC thread and come out with your life intact. :lol
 

Luckyman

Banned
Apr 30, 2006
4,688
0
0
HK-47 said:
Holy shit shit at the Wii gaming talk from this dev on Invisible Walls. Could he be more biased and uninformed.

Yes, clearly he needs to come to GAF to inform himself.

It´s pretty telling that a major producer like Pete Wanat is sounding off.
 

Chumly

Member
Apr 3, 2007
8,124
0
0
HK-47 said:
Holy shit shit at the Wii gaming talk from this dev on Invisible Walls. Could he be more biased and uninformed.

Nothing sells on Wii save Nintendo and Petz. Wii games never make back their budgets. Wii games are not cost effective. Wii has a lower attach rate than PS3.

What the what. Is this how man people in the industry see the Wii? Talk starts around 5 minutes in.

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/46982.html

I'm interested in sales ages thoughts on this, but didnt think it deserved a thread. Also good for a laugh and a facepalm.
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol


This is like a MUST listen. Its absolutely hilarious how stupid this guy is. I cant believe hes even smart enough to be a game developer.

"If you spend 2 million dollars on the Wii you are pretty much gaurenteed to lose money"

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

"If you spend over 500-600 thousand dollars on a wii game you will never make your money back"
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

He cant name a single game that has failed. Just says they all fail.

When asked about games that bomb on 360/PS3
"Attach rate is better on 360 and PS3!!!".......(They just ignore the fact that 360/PS3 games bomb also)

"Unless you only spend 350-500 thousand dollars you will not see a return on the Wii"
"Madworld would have to sell 2-3 Million units before publishers should actually put money into a Wii game"

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

ATTACH RATE ATTACH RATE ATTACH RATE

"To get a 360/PS3 game on the Wii you have to make it like a PLAYSTATION GAME"

He just keeps going on and on and on.
 
Jun 7, 2007
5,732
69
1,240
Chumly said:
"If you spend 2 million dollars on the Wii you are pretty much gaurenteed to lose money"
2.000.000 / $15 - $20 = 133.333 - 100.000

"If you spend over 500-600 thousand dollars on a wii game you will never make your money back"
600.000 / $15 - $20 = 40.000 - 30.000



Oh noes, the Bullshit-o-meter is full. :eek:
 

donny2112

Member
Apr 18, 2005
18,797
1
1,590
Aeris130 said:
Speaking of which, have Girls Mode been confirmed for a US release?

I'm pretty sure it has.

As far as numbers, the interview guy is completely off his rocker. As far as development planning, he makes more sense. He's basically saying that the PS360/PC is a common development environment, while the Wii isn't. What he doesn't address is the fact that if the Wii were a common development environment and didn't have the massive sales that it does, developers would still pass on it like they did with the GameCube. Nintendo took the right steps in making their console not easy to be ported to when they were coming from the GameCube generation. The problem for third-parties is that the Wii will very soon have a greater worldwide userbase than the PS3+360 combined and is exceptionally easy to develop for. At some point, they'll have to take the risk of continuing to not develop for the clear market leader. The question is what's more risky? Developing for the market leader in addition to simultaneous development on the PS360 or not developing for the market leader and continuing to risk your companies financial solvency on the sustained purchasing power of a much smaller userbase than your market model was planned for?
 

Luckyman

Banned
Apr 30, 2006
4,688
0
0
Jocchan said:
Who's the guy? Or is he an "anonymous dev from an anonymous software house from an anonymous country"? Cannot listen to the podcast right now.

Riddick Xbox producer
 

Chumly

Member
Apr 3, 2007
8,124
0
0
Jocchan said:
Who's the guy? Or is he an "anonymous dev from an anonymous software house from an anonymous country"? Cannot listen to the podcast right now.
I know he worked on Scarface Wii and seems to be drawing all of his conclusions from that.
 

ViperVisor

Member
Jun 20, 2007
8,010
0
905
HK-47 said:

Ugh, why did bring me down with these tired comments from people who should be

'would be nice to get some classic 1st party stuff from Nintendo and not Wii Music 2'

Motion+ 'finally getting a controller that makes Wii work as intended'

'Most disappointed in... Where's the great 3rd party game for the Wii?'
Discussion starts well enough with publishers getting named but then it derails with blaming the Wii owners buying habits or as one suggested lack thereof.

RE5 causes A 1 or 2 up of Shane with a Sega Genesis bomb drop. LOL
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Oct 24, 2007
49,169
0
1,010
Sadist said:
The thread will only be a baitfest :/

That why I didnt make it. I figured at this point the NPD thread had gotten to were only the big sales agers are still talking and I wanted their opinion, not the people from the first ten pages of the thread
 

Sadist

Member
Feb 2, 2008
24,668
0
1,220
The Netherlands
i43.tinypic.com
HK-47 said:
That why I didnt make it. I figured at this point the NPD thread had gotten to were only the big sales agers are still talking and I wanted their opinion, not the people from the first ten pages of the thread
Well, do you actually need an opinion about this one? :p

I mean, if 600k is enough to make a Wii game, they should talk to Tecmo.
 

Jokeropia

Member
May 15, 2006
6,556
0
0
Luckyman said:
Yes, clearly he needs to come to GAF to inform himself.
GAF is hardly the only place with access to the facts. Actually, I'd almost say some effort is required to become so bafflingly ignorant in the first place.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Oct 24, 2007
49,169
0
1,010
Sadist said:
Well, do you actually need an opinion about this one? :p

I mean, if 600k is enough to make a Wii game, they should talk to Tecmo.

More like a reaction =P

Looks like yoopoo took care of it though
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Oct 24, 2007
49,169
0
1,010
Jokeropia said:
GAF is hardly the only place with access to the facts. Actually, I'd almost say some effort is required to become so bafflingly ignorant in the first place.

This is what I was thinking. It would actually take effort for such a big guy in the industry to be this ignorant.
 

evilromero

Member
Jun 15, 2004
18,258
1
1,450
markatisu said:
Mario Kart Wii is at 5.5m in the US and Wii Play I think just crossed 10m in the US
Wow. Something tells me I need to be playing MK online now, instead of during the launch window when there were fewer noobs.