Not to pile on (too much), but they also expected to take a cut of all used game sales, assuming they didn't decide to pull the plug on them by making the terms so unfavorable to authorized used game retailers that no one could keep afford it.
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NPD Sales Results for January 2015 [PS4 #1, Nintendo Numbers, XB1 Minimum]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Not to pile on (too much), but they also expected to take a cut of all used game sales, assuming they didn't decide to pull the plug on them by making the terms so unfavorable to authorized used game retailers that no one could keep afford it.
Miles Quaritch
Member
PS4 reclaiming the number 1 spot was pretty much guaranteed, I doubt anyone really believed that MS would be able to hold on beyond the holiday period.
Terrible U numbers. Will Nintendo ever do anything to try and stimulate demand? Why are they so laid back and indifferent, they've done literally nothing to try and make it a more appealing proposition compared to the other consoles.
Jesus, get the hell off your asses and do something...
Terrible U numbers. Will Nintendo ever do anything to try and stimulate demand? Why are they so laid back and indifferent, they've done literally nothing to try and make it a more appealing proposition compared to the other consoles.
Jesus, get the hell off your asses and do something...
That was pretty much said word for wordy by Yusef Mehdi. They even had some demos on the Xbox One unveil, as if the prospect of being advertised movie tickets while watching related movies was the coolest thing ever.
StealthGoblin
Banned
Microsoft will need to do a little something more to keep things bubbling over in the US.
It is particularly concerning for them that in a month where they had a price advantage for at least some of it that they've been outsold again.
Microsoft built their console business around Xbox Live. For every PS4 sold that may be a customer who will only buy one out of the PS4/Xbox One and that may be where their subscription money goes.
They've lost everywhere other than in the US. They need to do more.
It is particularly concerning for them that in a month where they had a price advantage for at least some of it that they've been outsold again.
Microsoft built their console business around Xbox Live. For every PS4 sold that may be a customer who will only buy one out of the PS4/Xbox One and that may be where their subscription money goes.
They've lost everywhere other than in the US. They need to do more.
You can't just take the talent behind System Shock, KOTOR or Prince of Persia and have them make games for the Wii bowling audience. No, they make Bioshock, Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed.
kingkenny76
Member
Thanks
Pretty much.
Final Verdict
Member
Hey guys!
Been incredibly busy the last couple days, and out of the loop.
Do we have any hard numbers other than Wii U, and X1 minimum?
Been incredibly busy the last couple days, and out of the loop.
Do we have any hard numbers other than Wii U, and X1 minimum?
You seem like you are already off your ass and have an idea.
The fact of the matter is they can't. the only hope they have now is their next console.
All they can do is please the nintendo fans that buy the first party games and bring games in the franchises they want. Apart from their core franchises which they cant really abandon for darker toned games that the competiton have (and i wouldnt want them to anyway) what else can they do. Its too underpowered for publishers to even bother wasting money on third party ports no one will buy.
I love my Wii U, hours of fun, with great games all with high replay value and not one bug or broken high profile game in sight. But they wont be able to compete until a new console running on similar architecture to xbox and ps4 comes out and gets the same third party and indie support. They made a bad decision and are just doing the best with what they got.
Demographic, I knew there was a better word I could use.
Pretty much yeah, Uncharted is going to bring in that demographic, the problem with dudebroshooterbox housing TR timed exclusivity is just that, for a limited time, whatever demograph they carve out when TR hits will dissipate when it comes to other systems, Xbox already has enough of a rep that their exclusives will eventually pop up on PC as it is.
They did it before with the 360. Arguably if they stay on an x86 platform they could migrate to new hardware without a major impact on developers, especially as most developers are using the PC as a base.
The best nintendo can do at this point is a Pokemon or Zelda bundle at $200 this holiday season.
Maybe here but not in the general public... hence the reason why multiplats are doing well and are still reasons why people buy consoles in the first place.
Either way, I don't think TR will do much simply because MS already has a decent number of games (exclusives and multiplats) that will be system sellers more than TR.
Final Verdict
Member
I think that with the change of leadership - Phil & Satya - both understand that Xbox will never be that.
Like Phil said, they picked him as the new boss because they realized that the media center direction that they took with X1 had not worked, and that he would take the brand back to focusing on games, and listening to consumer feedback.
So there you are -- yes that was thier plan for the Xbox when they first conceived it, but they have since realized that the 'livingroom revolution' simply isn't happening. (This is largely thanks to the fact that you can do almost anything on your phone or tablet already, and people simply just don't need a big black 'entertainment box' to watch netflix or Hulu or whatever anymore).
Also, when Phil first joined, he talked a lot about them (Him and the Team) building a new longterm roadmap for Xbox, and so I'm not sure about if they plan to continue on after this generation, but my gut tells me yes.
I think that if X1 was going to be their last console then they would have let it die already.
Man, congrats to Sony! I am so impressed with what they are doing with the PS4. I feel like it's going to be similar to the ps2 but not quite as high numbers. By that, I mean the ps2 was basically THE console to have. When you talked about video games, you talked about the ps2. At least, that was my experience.
As far as the X1 goes....I don't know anymore. I have one and I do enjoy it. It's good seeing they have high software sales and I do think they are genuinely trying to turn everything around in the favor of the consumer but I might move over to the PC/Wii U master combo. I've been playing more and more Wii U lately and there is something about Nintendo first party games that can't ever be matched. The quality and gameplay, in my opinion, is miles above anything in the industry. Of course, I am still bitter that Nintendo didn't launch a system that was favorable to third parties...that's another discussion though.
As far as the X1 goes....I don't know anymore. I have one and I do enjoy it. It's good seeing they have high software sales and I do think they are genuinely trying to turn everything around in the favor of the consumer but I might move over to the PC/Wii U master combo. I've been playing more and more Wii U lately and there is something about Nintendo first party games that can't ever be matched. The quality and gameplay, in my opinion, is miles above anything in the industry. Of course, I am still bitter that Nintendo didn't launch a system that was favorable to third parties...that's another discussion though.
SDCowboy
Member
I don't get why Nintendo hasn't just dropped the tablet and made the console/game bundle for around $149.99-199.99.
Huh? How have they not lost the US? Because they won for three months out of 15? One of which Sony was severely supply constrained, and the other two where the were upward of $100 equivalency cheaper than Sony?
If anything, I think XBONE's position in US and UK is cemented. There is value seen there, but it is tremendously lower than the value of PS4 in the eyes of the average consumer. MS was able to play on that over the holidays by drastically slashing the effective price.. But really MS to maintain parity with Sony is going to have to be at least $100 cheaper than PS4. Bundling can help that, except that bundles are like software sales.. The AC bundle went massive when AC launched, but now is basically a $50 cheaper XBONE with one fall game and one year old budget game.
and that's the problem.. I don't see how MS can keep refreshing bundles. honestly they just need to bite the bullet and lower to $299 (or $100 less than Sony's current price). The problem as we know is that the XBONE doesn't cost $100 less to manufacture. But right now they are up against the view that they are both the weaker console AND the less popular console..
with all of this being said, I don't know that MS can "turn it around". At this point they simply need to keep sales trending, margins improving, keep buyers and publishers happy, and look to get a jump on next-gen. Stop worrying about "winning" any sort of sales contest this gen. because they can't. No way they catch Sony without big first party titles again this fall.
I'm guessing you know absolutely nothing about Wii U..... Gamepad is not the kinect. There is NO way to drop it. If Nintendo released a model without the gamepad, there would be TONS of games that simply could not be played (and probably most games wouldn't even), and there's no way for Nintendo to designate those games after the fact. Sales are rough for Wii U. If Nintendo released one without a gamepad, it would probably kill the system completely. The backlash from people buying games that did not work would be insane.
The time for drastic measures for the Wii U is long past. Nintendo needed to make that move in the fall of 2013. The best case scenario for Nintendo now is that they have the next system ready to launch at the end of 2016.
DragonSworne
Banned
Because Iwata
Okay, fine. If this is your position -- that these teams simply could not possibly be asked to make a Wii game -- then you are implicitly admitting in very clear terms that publishers did not try everything could, or even close to it, which was the premise of this discussion in the first place.
CosmicQueso
Member
Right now, it looks like the biggest barrier is the more mass market consumer just not being super aware of how digital purchasing really works. I don't know if I'd call it resistance really. Adoption has been faster than was forecast. Don't really have enough data for anyone to know the behavior drivers of what's going on quite yet.
Yep. To be fair, two years ago digital sales were maybe handled by one person in an org. They were an afterthought. as digital shares were low single digit %. A lot has changed in two years for sure. It's evolving.
Controversial statement time... but the consumer backlash to the Xbox One original plan has either killed this idea or postponed it for many, many years. This kind of digital license trade in program was being discussed across retailers and publishers up until the policy reversal. A major US games specialty retailer wants this to happen, but it is not getting much traction these days. But yeah, that backlash made clear that consumers aren't ready for this. Maybe they will be someday, but it's not being actively pursued that I know of.
If this kind of program were to happen, it would be in conjunction with brick & mortar, at least in the short to mid-term future.
Was thinking about this more last night... So the top-tier talent you mention. These people are, like you say, the best at what they do. As such, they do have a lot of power in determining what they develop, outside of some general direction (ie it's an Assassin's Creed game).
Infinity Ward, for example, were the drivers behind taking COD4 into modern day. Activision management wanted COD4 to continue in the WW2 setting. But, because IW was so good at what they did, and had such influence, they determined what they were actually going to make, which was Modern Warfare. And I don't see, in any way, how someone like IW could have been forced to make a Wii game unless they really wanted to.
Keeping top tier development talent happy is not easy. And if that top tier talent really wanted to work on the Wii, I think they would have been able to. It's not just a question of deploying resources when you're talking about the top tier dev talent.
As to the metacritic question, it's really tough. I did a big writeup on launch window MC scores, but the trend held. Wii games were scored lower than PS3/X360, with a lower average, and lower incidence rate of 80+ scores.
1,193 third party physical games were released on the Wii, compared with 1,027 PS3 games and 1,180 Xbox 360 games. Sample size alone would lead one to believe that some hits would come out of 1,193 titles beyond Just Dance, Guitar Hero, Epic Mickey and the LEGO games. It just didn't work out that way. The best-selling "core" title was Star Wars: The Force Unleashed, which ranked only in the top 30 3rd party games.
If you want to say that 3rd parties proved incompetent in figuring out the Wii more traditional games market, I'd agree. And while I'll concede that the best of the best talent wise may not have been applied to Wii development, I'd argue that doing so would have been very difficult. While "doing all they could do" seems to be a sticking point definition, perhaps I'd change that to say 3rd parties made a reasonable attempt to succeed in that market. They just, for the most part, failed.
The problem isn't that Nintendo is doing nothing, the problem is that Nintendo is the only one doing anything. I mean holy shit, the only 3rd party stuff Nintendo are getting is outsourced Nintendo IP games like Hyrule Warriors or devs that need funding like Bayonetta 2, fuck I don't even know if Ubisoft followed through and actually released Watchdogs in November(?)
If you mean same architecture as PS5, then they should get defacto third parties anyway, if they're a generation behind then devs are going to start weighing scaling back their tech to suit the archirecture and wether it's worth the business venture just like this gen.
They've lost the US. I guess you can say they weren't annihilated in the US.
I don't see how they'll make up the gap. Desperation moves are costly and don't shift the balance overall, and whatever gains are made are likely to be lost when Sony's price cuts begin.
gamechanger87
Member
Thanks!
To all of you people whom raised a ruckus over the XBO plan. Thanks a million!!!!!!!!!!!!
I really don't like the gaming community sometimes. So adverse to change. Plans were in place for something that everyone wanted, and people would still be able to trade in games or buy physical and yet here we are.
Maybe someday soon we will get something nice.
how much of the gap did they really make up in those two months though? IIRC the gap was over 1M units before the holidays... did they even make up half of that? Now January we are back to PS4 on top, so how long before that same gap is reached and surpassed?
lol.... sigh.
the problem with the original plan was that there was no alternative. liked the plan? GREAT! Didn't like the plan well hey, you can always still play 360!!! (or buy PS4).
Microsoft's biggest mistake, both at the reveal and at the 180°, was not having BOTH plans in place simultaneously. Guess what.. Sony has both in place... I buy almost all digital... and my buddy buys almost all physical. Both of us are happy!
Hubris.. fucking hubris... you can't act like your customers need you more than you need them (unless you are a utility, at which point you will be regulated anyway). MS needed to provide the new way and the old way. Their biggest mistake was at the reveal not providing the old way, and at the 180° not providing the new way. Ultimately both combined cost them dearly.
Aquamarine
Member
okay one leak and then i have to stay quiet.
check both places (both npd threads) if you're interested in why.
non-jumping mushroom: <30k
check both places (both npd threads) if you're interested in why.
non-jumping mushroom: <30k
did it land in Dec or Jan?
I believe the gap was 1.2 million before the holidays. November and December sales brought that down to around 650K if I remember correctly.
Can't see it happening during the first half of the year to be honest. January sales for both consoles were low so it didn't add much to the gap. PS4 needs to sell on average 100K more than the Xbox One each month for the first half of this year for the gap to come back before the Fall.
I think the Holiday season is anyone's game -- PS4 should get a price drop but I'm expecting the XB1 to have one too alongside bundles and crazy deals again.
______________________
Not surprised at all. Pretty niche game.
Aquamarine
Member
dec, this is jan sales
theprodigy
Member
in other words: how a release date can change everything
Is this linked to this "Tagged" thing I'm seeing in the VGBrabrah's forum NPD thread?
Aquamarine
Member
what do you mean by that?
As expected. So sales generally seem to be more weighted to the holidays these days compared to past generations or years?
I believe it was ~400k in November and another 100k in December. PS4 made back 40k in January with the temporary price increase for XBO. We'll see if the pace picks up as the PS4 library improves. Can't wait til E3.
They didn't have to make wii bowling 2. Audience was quite diverse and the third party "budget test game" well had not been poisoned yet in the first year or two.
Yeah, second month + no Holidays anymore can change things a lot, especially if the console in question is Wii U (considering its whole awful environment, despite the latest improvements for first party titles). It should still have some legs, though, due to the budget price. Small legs without jumps at all, like Captain Toad.
If this game is what I am thinking of, how would the release date matter?
vinnygambini
Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
Toooooaaadddddd ;.;
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Nintendo don't have cross subsidisation from other divisions to fund a warchest of throwing money down a black hole to outspend the competition for market share, nor a long term corporate goal where marketshare is more important than profitability.
You're genuinely welcome. If Microsoft announces similar DRM plans for it's next console I'll be happy to "raise a ruckus" again.
Aquamarine
Member
Ah, misunderstood earlier, then. Sorry.
Birgitte2004
Member
Forecast by who?
Adoption has clearly been slower than the forecasts that said that the environment was ready to have the PS4 and Xbox One be completely physical-media free and that Blu-Rays(outside the PS3) would cease to exist by 2012.
CosmicQueso
Member
Oh, and the communication. The communication was terrible from the first moment they talked about it.
What on earth are you referring to? I've never read or heard anything like that.
Depends tho, the trade in might have been substantially less than it was 'worth' - it's all very well all this talk of what might have happened, but if it was going to be so good why not say that at the time of the inital backlash?
I agree with your general point, The Wii audience was not catered to, but the publishers you mentioned had no incentive to, when Take Two put resources on PS360, they get the biggest entertainment product of all time, so even if they let the GTA team make Wii games, the opportunity cost would be too high.
The biggest offender in this was Nintendo, they did not try to keep them hard enough, they were swimming in money during the WiiDS years, but they let the Wii die a sharp death ~4 years after it launched, they could have tried converting the DS audience by introducing a DSPhone & made the phone integrated with the Wii 2, instead, they did nothing as Apple & Google completely took that market from them, & then came in very very late to the party by introducing a tablet controller, which tells you that they had no idea why tablets were popular in the first place. Imagine if Sony stopped supporting the original Playstation in 1997-1998 or if Nintendo stopped supporting the Gameboy in 1994, we probably wouldn't be talking about billion dollar franchises like Call of Duty or cash cows like Clash of Clans.
SEGAvangelist
Gold Member
It wasn't even more than communication, though. It seemed like even MS didn't even know all the details.
KillerMan91
Member
Buying marketshare can lead to future profitability though. Sony did this with PS3 and MS is now trying it with Xbox One. Sony kept PS3 competitive by throwing money at it and kept it in minds of consumers. PS4 would never have been as succesfull as it's now if Sony had just rode the PS3 out like Nintendo is currently doing with WiiU. Nintendo has to launch their next home console to market where they have basically zero mindshare. Of course the situations differ greatly so maybe Nintendo is doing correct decision with not investing more to WiiU. We shall see.