NPD Sales Results for July 2013 [Up2: 3DS Minimum, AC:NL, LM2/NSMBU LTDs, Xbox 360]

Nov 13, 2011
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As some of you are talking about TTMs from quite a few years ago is there a website that has collected all this data or do you have like an excel file on the PC?
Because I'm really curious to see a lot more of those comparisons (like 2006 vs. 2013), but I don't have the data available ^^
Home console:


Handheld:

Thanks for posting that (I'd still like to know where the raw data is from, is it your own excel sheet? ^^). Looking at it it seems to suggest that it's not so much handhelds that suffer, but the videogames hardware market in general as both are basically back to that ~year 2002 level. To be fair handhelds should be faring much better considering that the consoles are really old (and Wii U as the only new console is adding ~zero to the equation) while both (Vita/3DS) handhelds are out. But than again considering that due to tablets, smartphones etc. dedicated handhelds were/are considered to be doomed I'd still see this as some kind of an indication that it's not just the handheld market that is in trouble.
Personal database, doesn't have data pre-PS2 nor pre-GBA. May be some inaccuracies but hopefully nothing major. The console market is back down to 2002 levels, sure; it was also down to 2002 levels in 2006 at the last transition.
 

TechnicPuppet

Nothing! I said nothing!
May 14, 2013
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Theres two uses of casuals in gaming. You refer to the ultra casual bejeweled, wii sports, farmville lot, OR you refer to mr madden/fifa/cod/assassins creed/batman casual.

In which case, yes, those people are looking intently at PS4's first seemingly, then Xbones.
There really isn't any evidence of this though is there. Not sure I agree with your definition of casual either.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Apr 23, 2010
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There really isn't any evidence of this though is there. Not sure I agree with your definition of casual either.
Well I don't need you to 'agree'. Historically, before Wii and iOS, thats what 'casuals' meant and how they were discussed.

Now what remains to be seen is if they stick it out on X360/PS3 for the next couple years and indulge cross-gen titles to their maximum, or if they too are thirsty enough to make the jump and make it in a big en masse way.
 
Nov 7, 2011
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Yes sir! Assuming WiiU sold 29k...
Two things that stand out to me:

- The barren wasteland that is the Wii U release schedule, man they really messed up there.

- All those great Gamecube games and such low numbers. Why? REmake, Metroid Prime, Pikmin, Eternal Darkness, RE Zero, Smash Bros, Rogue Leader, Luigi... all in the console's first year. What happened there? Wii U deserved to tank with no games coming out but the GC deserved so much more, so much quality in its first year, and all exclusive games.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Apr 23, 2010
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PS2 was the console. There was no other conversation really, thats the one you bought. Nintendo sold to their hardcore base as ever (which seems to have since dwindled further), and Xbox carved out a new space with seemingly Halo alone, which is sort of from the legacy of how Goldeneye 64 boosted the fuck out of N64 and Nintendo never followed up on in subsequent consoles -- good job!
 

Alx

Member
Jan 22, 2007
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- All those great Gamecube games and such low numbers. Why? REmake, Metroid Prime, Pikmin, Eternal Darkness, RE Zero, Smash Bros, Rogue Leader, Luigi... all in the console's first year. What happened there? Wii U deserved to tank with no games coming out but the GC deserved so much more, so much quality in its first year, and all exclusive games.
Well, the market was all about PS2 at the time. Everybody had one or wanted one, even if the other consoles had good games, they were overshadowed by the PS2 omnipresence.
 

EdLin

Neo Member
May 28, 2013
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I see it often here, it's also taken for granted that the Wii U will outsell the Gamecube because people think that the franchises have been expanded by the Wii users so sales will explode once those titles hit. It's insane.
About half of Wii users never got anything past the bundled Wii Sports, Wii is not a Nintendo francise machine - most owners of the Wii do not have any Mario or Zelda games, or any games at all for that matter.
 
Feb 7, 2012
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Two things that stand out to me:

- The barren wasteland that is the Wii U release schedule, man they really messed up there.

- All those great Gamecube games and such low numbers. Why? REmake, Metroid Prime, Pikmin, Eternal Darkness, RE Zero, Smash Bros, Rogue Leader, Luigi... all in the console's first year. What happened there? Wii U deserved to tank with no games coming out but the GC deserved so much more, so much quality in its first year, and all exclusive games.
The tsunami of hype that was the PS2. We have never seen anything like that, even in the initial Wii craze Nothing was safe from that destruction.

Plus, Nintendo was (falsely imo) being derided for being kiddy, and they release a console that looks like a purple lunchbox, a 3D Mario game where people thought all you did was clean mud off of walls, and a Zelda game that looked like a cartoon.

In hindsight, those complaints are ridiculous, but that was the conventional wisdom at the time.
 
Jul 18, 2005
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Home console:


Handheld:

Thanks for posting that (I'd still like to know where the raw data is from, is it your own excel sheet? ^^). Looking at it it seems to suggest that it's not so much handhelds that suffer, but the videogames hardware market in general as both are basically back to that ~year 2002 level. To be fair handhelds should be faring much better considering that the consoles are really old (and Wii U as the only new console is adding ~zero to the equation) while both (Vita/3DS) handhelds are out. But than again considering that due to tablets, smartphones etc. dedicated handhelds were/are considered to be doomed I'd still see this as some kind of an indication that it's not just the handheld market that is in trouble.
 
Feb 7, 2012
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About half of Wii users never got anything past the bundled Wii Sports, Wii is not a Nintendo francise machine - most owners of the Wii do not have any Mario or Zelda games, or any games at all for that matter.
You are wrong. The wii's software attach rate is generally on par with the HD twins.
 
Feb 7, 2012
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That's the real question.

GAF is overly positive about the prospects of PS4 (Don't know about Xbone, it will perform well enough in the US) and yes, pre-orders are good, but I don't know; I just feel that the overall buzz for new systems is pretty low. I wouldn't be surpised if sales slumped towards 90k - 70k a month after january. It won't reach Wii U depths, but I suspect surprising figures overall.
I completely agree. And its not because the next gen systems are bad. MS and Sony simply offered too many great services this gen. Netflix, online, etc.

Look at from the perspective of your normal, non-GAF gamer, that play a few games a year (Madden, COD, etc.). All of these games will be released cross-gen. How many of them are going to be compelled to make the jump until their franchises of choice are exclusively next gen?
 
Nov 7, 2011
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The tsunami of hype that was the PS2. We have never seen anything like that, even in the initial Wii craze Nothing was safe from that destruction.

Plus, Nintendo was (falsely imo) being derided for being kiddy, and they release a console that looks like a purple lunchbox, a 3D Mario game where people thought all you did was clean mud off of walls, and a Zelda game that looked like a cartoon.

In hindsight, those complaints are ridiculous, but that was the conventional wisdom at the time.
Oh yes, the kiddy thing, I remember. One my friends was a huge RE fan. When the series went cube-exclusive he refused to buy the GC and any further Capcom games because he felt "betrayed" and would never buy such a kiddy console...
I personally loved that purple lunchbox, best console design ever, so much power in a little package.

I guess launching a year or more later than the PS2 didn't exactly help the GC (and Xbox) either.

But we will never see a dominance like the PS2 again and Nintendo's big brands seem stronger now than in the GC days (looking at the crazy Mario Kart, Mario and Smash Bros sales on Wii) so maybe Wii U can turn around. 3D Mario and Mario Kart changed the course for the 3DS, hopefully they can do the same for the Wii U.
 
Oct 4, 2009
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Here's my source, an article quoted from the New York Times http://www.joystiq.com/2008/04/21/ny-times-tackles-wiis-tie-in-ratio/

It says "most Wii owners don't treat their Wii as anything more than a Wii Sports machine." I'm not a subscriber to the NYT's website, so I can't look at their archives to find the article cited, sorry.
That sentence is as worthy to take seriously as if it was written by an (uneducated on the subject) gaffer in these boards.

Wii tie ratio should be lower overall compared to 360 and PS3 but only a fool would believe that more that 50M Wii got to play just Wii Sports.

You can get Nintendo system total HW and SW on their site:
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/sales/hard_soft/
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
Feb 19, 2008
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Here's my source, an article quoted from the New York Times http://www.joystiq.com/2008/04/21/ny-times-tackles-wiis-tie-in-ratio/

It says "most Wii owners don't treat their Wii as anything more than a Wii Sports machine." I'm not a subscriber to the NYT's website, so I can't look at their archives to find the article cited, sorry.
their conclusion doesn't follow from their data.

when you look at the actual numbers, they cite the fact that Wii users buy roughly one game per year less than PS3 or 360 users. Of course, Wii consoles all came with a game packed in, so it's not like Wii users were playing fewer games. Nintendo just put one in the box (and increased the price accordingly).

A couple posts above noted the actual worldwide tie ratio numbers (though you may have to adjust for Wii sports).
 
Nov 14, 2008
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That's the real question.

GAF is overly positive about the prospects of PS4 (Don't know about Xbone, it will perform well enough in the US) and yes, pre-orders are good, but I don't know; I just feel that the overall buzz for new systems is pretty low. I wouldn't be surpised if sales slumped towards 90k - 70k a month after january. It won't reach Wii U depths, but I suspect surprising figures overall.
Same. I think a lot of gamers are in for a wake-up call come mid next year.
 

EdLin

Neo Member
May 28, 2013
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their conclusion doesn't follow from their data.

when you look at the actual numbers, they cite the fact that Wii users buy roughly one game per year less than PS3 or 360 users. Of course, Wii consoles all came with a game packed in, so it's not like Wii users were playing fewer games. Nintendo just put one in the box (and increased the price accordingly).

A couple posts above noted the actual worldwide tie ratio numbers (though you may have to adjust for Wii sports).
OK, my apologies. Apparently the Times was incorrect, or the article was out of date and later the Wiis sold. had a higher tie ratio than in 2008.
 
Jan 2, 2007
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Two things that stand out to me:

- The barren wasteland that is the Wii U release schedule, man they really messed up there.

- All those great Gamecube games and such low numbers. Why? REmake, Metroid Prime, Pikmin, Eternal Darkness, RE Zero, Smash Bros, Rogue Leader, Luigi... all in the console's first year. What happened there? Wii U deserved to tank with no games coming out but the GC deserved so much more, so much quality in its first year, and all exclusive games.
We had this thread, but Nintendo released the GCN as a purple lunchbox with an asymmetric controller, stingy memory cards, wonky dual analog setup, mini discs, and intentionally downplayed tech specs as a selling point despite being more capable than PS2.

The perception of the system was far worse than the reality, at least at the start. Despite Rogue Leader, REmake, Zero, Metroid Prime and Eternal Darkness landing in the first year, they couldn't shake the "kiddie" stigma, the Xbox took the N64's place as the console fps king (thanks for nothing Perfect Dark 2 and Duke Nukem Forever) and NCL didn't help with the way the system was marketed (let's be honest, the Wind Waker reveal hurt their brand in NA a LOT) and the way they pushed off-screen play via the GBA instead of online gaming.
 

EdLin

Neo Member
May 28, 2013
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That's the real question.

GAF is overly positive about the prospects of PS4 (Don't know about Xbone, it will perform well enough in the US) and yes, pre-orders are good, but I don't know; I just feel that the overall buzz for new systems is pretty low. I wouldn't be surpised if sales slumped towards 90k - 70k a month after january. It won't reach Wii U depths, but I suspect surprising figures overall.
I tend to agree with this. Lest people think I'm an anti-Nintendo fanboy from my posts in this thread, I think that the 3ds/3ds XL will be the best-selling console this generation, once all of the pre-orders and launch holiday sales of the PS4 and Xbox One are over. There just isn't a good market for non-portable consoles anymore, with the mobile market in general (which the 3ds is a part of) being so dominant for people's money and attention.
 
May 24, 2007
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Microsoft need to be finding a way to differentiate the X1 version of Minecraft from the 360. If they can, the game will sell that hardware.

I also firmly believe Minecraft is what's selling the 360 right now.
It's hard to argue these points. As of writing this, it is the #2 game on iTunes, #1 game on Google Play (PE passed 10 million in May), has just passed 8 million sales on 360 per Mojang and has sold 11+ million on PC.

Microsoft signing Mojang to console exclusivity was a huge steal.
 
May 24, 2010
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Couple questions, how many of those are pack in games like Wii Sports and how many were extra controllers like Wii Play?
All Wii in the West are pack in so something like 87-88 millions and for Wii Play I don't remember the last know number, something like 20 millions I think.

If you ask thoses questions thinking those 2 cases inflate the software sell please keep in mind that both the PS3 and the 360 had multiple bundles and Move/Kinect bundles with games which also inflate the software sell as well.
 
May 31, 2009
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www.neogaf.com
- All those great Gamecube games and such low numbers. Why? REmake, Metroid Prime, Pikmin, Eternal Darkness, RE Zero, Smash Bros, Rogue Leader, Luigi... all in the console's first year. What happened there? Wii U deserved to tank with no games coming out but the GC deserved so much more, so much quality in its first year, and all exclusive games.
people thought ps2 was better for some strange reason

poor gamecube =(
 
Mar 8, 2012
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Couple questions, how many of those are pack in games like Wii Sports and how many were extra controllers like Wii Play?
Ignoring that the HD consoles also did bundles (and if they didn't, could have done bundles), if we assume that people buy consoles to play games, what's the difference between buying a $200 console and a $50 game versus a $250 console/game bundle?
 
Apr 10, 2007
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Pokemon D/P released on the DS at the time
Currently 3DS had 2 holidays, the DS was release in november 2004, 29 months after was april 2007, so yes DS numbers include an extra holiday.
Ok, so the DS had +1 holiday season and Pokemon had already been released. Based on that I think Nintendo is probably feeling fine about the 3DS numbers.

You'd think Pachter would point those things out. But I guess not.
And Pachter continues to beat the "portables are doomed" drum. 3DS numbers are at worst very close to those of the DS.
 
Dec 8, 2008
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Ok, so the DS had +1 holiday season and Pokemon had already been released. Based on that I think Nintendo is probably feeling fine about the 3DS numbers.
I doubt any manufacturer feels 'fine' about hardware that consistently misses forecasts.

And Pachter continues to beat the "portables are doomed" drum. 3DS numbers are at worst very close to those of the DS.
Nah, they're not really. Software especially. They're closer to the PSP.
 
Jul 12, 2012
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PS2 was the console. There was no other conversation really, thats the one you bought. Nintendo sold to their hardcore base as ever (which seems to have since dwindled further), and Xbox carved out a new space with seemingly Halo alone, which is sort of from the legacy of how Goldeneye 64 boosted the fuck out of N64 and Nintendo never followed up on in subsequent consoles -- good job!
I think it's too soon so say the Nintendo base has dwindled further since Gamecube days. That assumes the entire "base" buys the console during the launch window. Wii U still has not released the vast majority of the big games, while Gamecube had many out by this time. It also assumes that the runaway success of the DS and Wii (and to a lesser extent 3DS) added absolutely nobody to the base.

I agree on the other point though. N64 was the shooterbox in that era, as funny as that sounds now. And yes, they did NOTHING to capitalize that and bring that audience forward to Gamecube and beyond.

That's the real question.

GAF is overly positive about the prospects of PS4 (Don't know about Xbone, it will perform well enough in the US) and yes, pre-orders are good, but I don't know; I just feel that the overall buzz for new systems is pretty low. I wouldn't be surpised if sales slumped towards 90k - 70k a month after january. It won't reach Wii U depths, but I suspect surprising figures overall.
This is kind of what I'm expecting. We shouldn't see the horrible depths the Wii U has reached this year, but after the initial pent up demand is exhausted, I wouldn't be AT ALL surprised to see some numbers easily below 100k NPD. This of course depends on release schedules and other factors, but I don't think we have a basis to predict any runaway successes especially with so many cross gen games for the foreseeable future.

This gen saw the rise of TWO types of casuals. The kinect/Wii casual and the dudebro casual (Pie and Beans talked about this in a recent post). The latter is a huge chunk of the PS360 base, and we can's assume they're ready to upgrade any time soon.
 
Mar 25, 2005
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All Wii in the West are pack in so something like 87-88 millions and for Wii Play I don't remember the last know number, something like 20 millions I think.

If you ask thoses questions thinking those 2 cases inflate the software sell please keep in mind that both the PS3 and the 360 had multiple bundles and Move/Kinect bundles with games which also inflate the software sell as well.
It's not nearly the same. Outside of Japan, I don't think that the Wii ever came without a pack in. Perhaps that red $99 no-internet version is stand alone, but the Wii was pretty much done selling before that was introduced. Almost all Wiis came with 1-2 pack-ins. If you total up the Wii Sports, Sports Resort, Mario Kart, and NSMB bundles, you are probably looking at close to 100M units of software. Wii Play sold 28M units.

That still leaves 750M non-bundle, non Wii Play controller software sales/shipments. So even on top of the games they got for "free" with the system, people bought a lot of software. The Wii has over 100 games that were million sellers (or million shippers) worldwide.
 
Apr 10, 2007
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GBA first 29 months: ~15.88 million
DS first 29 months: ~10.36 million
3DS first 29 months: ~8.86 million (according to Pachter)

People tend to forget how ridiculously successful the GBA was in its early years.
Wow. I had no idea. The LTD DS numbers are so much greater than the LTD GBA numbers (153.93M vs. 81.51M) but I didn't know that its launch was comparatively so much slower.
 
Nov 13, 2011
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The "dudebro casual" did not arise this generation. The PS2 didn't get driven to its heights by just the most enthusiastic core of gamers.
Ok, so the DS had +1 holiday season and Pokemon had already been released. Based on that I think Nintendo is probably feeling fine about the 3DS numbers.

And Pachter continues to beat the "portables are doomed" drum. 3DS numbers are at worst very close to those of the DS.
The NDS was selling very poorly in its early life.

Also, Pokemon released in April 2007 in NA. 29 months for the NDS would end in March 2007.
3DS numbers are tracking 20% behind DS numbers. And the DS had not hit its stride yet.
It had hit its stride, but I don't think a lot of people realise just how poorly the NDS was selling in the beginning.
The GBA launched at $99.
If the implication is that the 3DS is too expensive. I agree. Aged more expensive (and too expensive) home consoles are managing to match their predecessors though at the last transition.
 
Jan 17, 2007
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How many months in a row has Minecraft been in the top 10 at retail? I feel like I've seen it there the last 2-3 months at least.

Every single one of my kids' friends that owns an xbox has Minecraft 360, and plays it religiously. It's bananas.