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NPD Sales Results for June 2013 [Up2: 360/3DS Hardware, AC/LM/DK Digital + Retail]

Dec 27, 2007
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Akron, OH
They haven't recorded an operating profit since the last 3DS price cut. A half billion dollar price cut isn't going to help them hit their aggressive profit forecast this year.
No, and neither should that be their goal. They have many more years of profits in the future to worry about and a key part of that is getting Pokémon into as many little hands of the new generation as possible now. Also, for the first time the yen isn't a major headwind but is now a very large boost.
 

jcm

Member
Dec 8, 2008
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No, and neither should that be their goal. They have many more years of profits in the future to worry about and a key part of that is getting Pokémon into as many little hands of the new generation as possible now. Also, for the first time the yen isn't a major headwind but is now a very large boost.
I agree. I think that Iwata's interest and nintendo's interest are no longer aligned. Iwata needs a big number this year. Nintendo needs to spend this year laying groundwork for the future.
 

w1gglyjones

Member
Apr 20, 2013
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I agree. I think that Iwata's interest and nintendo's interest are no longer aligned. Iwata needs a big number this year. Nintendo needs to spend this year laying groundwork for the future.
What steps has he taken currently to sacrifice future profitability and sustainability in favor of short term profits?
 

jcm

Member
Dec 8, 2008
5,102
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What steps has he taken currently to sacrifice future profitability and sustainability in favor of short term profits?
He hasn't spent any money to help the wii u. No price cut, no third party support, no saturation marketing. Just sit tight,
 

w1gglyjones

Member
Apr 20, 2013
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He hasn't spent any money to help the wii u. No price cut, no third party support, no saturation marketing. Just sit tight,
While I do think that they've made lots of mistakes in engineering the Wii U and not positioning it to earn the favor of the more traditional gamer, I think it's too early to say that he is doing the things you mention (being cheap) intentionally to increase profits this fiscal year (and protect his job) in favor of increasing the install base.

I mean, if the charge is that he's intentionally being stingy and hurting the console's prospects to produce a better bottom line this year just to protect his job, then it's harder to justify because 1) we're only 1 quarter into the FY and 2) we'd have to have more data to show that that's his intent 3) Iwata doing such would not make his job any more secure the next year or later

Not trying to defend Wii U or Iwata cause the Wii U is, well, lol, but it's a bit of idea to push currently.
 
Dec 27, 2007
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Akron, OH
I agree. I think that Iwata's interest and nintendo's interest are no longer aligned. Iwata needs a big number this year. Nintendo needs to spend this year laying groundwork for the future.
That is one of my major concerns about Nintendo right now, whether their CEO is more focused on his interests (which involve short term profits at any long term cost) or the company's (where maximizing the long run is key). So far I haven't seen any indication that Iwata is willing to sacrifice this year's profits regardless how much it hurts Nintendo long term.

What steps has he taken currently to sacrifice future profitability and sustainability in favor of short term profits?
On the Wii U he is blowing all of Nintendo's quick and easy franchises (essentially 2D/ish platformers) that usually come out over a generation in a single year. They will not perform as well as they would spread out nor will it work as well as mixing genres over time. But they sell well enough even when debased and they are quick and easy to put out so that's what Iwata has for the Wii U to maximize this year despite the future problems it causes.

For the 3DS it needs a price cut and badly. Other than the peak DS proto-smartphone craze and the monkey stomping portable Play-effing-Station 2 no dedicated handheld could sustain itself over $150 and realistically over $120. Yet, despite the weakening yen Iwata raise the #*&%#* price of the 3DS. Sure that's a double bonus now but it is damaging the future years of the 3DS (and as a result it's successor). Also, the games are too flipping expensive. I'm a Nintendo gamer of 25 years standing, but I'm not paying $40 for a 3DS game. I get some $35 but unless I can get a deal to get the game's price under $30 I'm not buying. $35-40 only worked in the already noted period for handhelds, and especially in the smartphone world it doesn't cut it. Maximizes profits this year though.
 

w1gglyjones

Member
Apr 20, 2013
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On the Wii U he is blowing all of Nintendo's quick and easy franchises (essentially 2D/ish platformers) that usually come out over a generation in a single year. They will not perform as well as they would spread out nor will it work as well as mixing genres over time. But they sell well enough even when debased and they are quick and easy to put out so that's what Iwata has for the Wii U to maximize this year despite the future problems it causes.

For the 3DS it needs a price cut and badly. Other than the peak DS proto-smartphone craze and the monkey stomping portable Play-effing-Station 2 no dedicated handheld could sustain itself over $150 and realistically over $120. Yet, despite the weakening yen Iwata raise the #*&%#* price of the 3DS. Sure that's a double bonus now but it is damaging the future years of the 3DS (and as a result it's successor). Also, the games are too flipping expensive. I'm a Nintendo gamer of 25 years standing, but I'm not paying $40 for a 3DS game. I get some $35 but unless I can get a deal to get the game's price under $30 I'm not buying. $35-40 only worked in the already noted period for handhelds, and especially in the smartphone world it doesn't cut it. Maximizes profits this year though.
I'm sorry but your points about the Wii U's current year software output don't support "Iwata is intentionally taking measures to boost short term profits that will likely cripple future sustainability." These games were planned for well before the Wii U launched and before Nintendo realized they had a big problem with the product itself.

Also, your point of "Wii U is front loaded with Nintendo's heavy hitting 'traditional' games and Nintendo won't have any blockbuster games left over for later" makes even less sense. For starters, you're saying that Nintendo literally will be incapable of producing quality software beyond this FY cause they are "shooting their load" too early. Furthermore, you say that Nintendo should try to maintain future sustainability but at the same time have an issue with them "shooting their load" this year to boost hardware sales of the Wii U.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with their strategy, but the idea that these plans are motivated by some last minute effort by Iwata to "save his job" through short term profits that sacrifice their future profitability are pretty wacky claims. You could at least try substantiate them better after the holidays or the end of this fiscal year.

On the 3DS front, you think that the 3DS hardware needs a lower price to maximize its longevity and compare it to DS sales. I'm not going to discuss the issue of just how healthy the 3DS is vs. how healthy is should be or might be in the future because it's complicated topic. It's your opinion that the price should be lower in order to increase hardware sales beyond what they are currently. Maybe you are right, but I don't have an opinion on that.

But I do think that even on this point, it's a far cry to say that the chief reason the 3DS hasn't gotten a price cut is because Iwata is sacrificing potential growth in that platform to increase the bottom line this year. It's especially odd because if you are right, then he'll just be in the same situation next year. Of course, you might respond by saying that he's intentionally prolonging the inevitable and he may or may not realize that.

Your valuation of 3DS software is silly. "I'm not paying $40 for a 3DS game..." Okay... that's nice. Every game on every platform is worth something different to every consumer. I'm not even sure why a dedicated gamer would be fine paying $40 for a handheld game in their favorite series 10 years ago, but would scoff at the idea now. Why? Because of doodle jump and "der zombies ate my breakfast v1.09"??

I'm not saying that the perceived value of handheld games hasn't eroded. It has. But there are other factors to consider, and since you've gotten yourself in the game of "this is myopic," it would be nice for you to reflect on the fact that perhaps you are the one who is oblivious for certain factors that affect or dictate issues in this realm.

Plus, they literally just ran a massive and successful promotion in the EU, and a similar, smaller promotion in NA. Ultimately, no matter how cheap 3DS software "needs" to be to move volume, you're literally pointing at all 2013 Nintendo business decisions as some kind of plot by Iwata to "take active steps to increase profits this year while knowingly (or unknowingly) hurting future sustainability"
 

BishopLamont

Banned
Apr 22, 2007
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The idea that Nintendo is shooting all their load early is laughable. Out of everyone in the business, they are probably the least likely company to run out of franchises to produce new hits.
 

Psycho_Mantis

Banned
Jul 28, 2012
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The idea that Nintendo is shooting all their load early is laughable. Out of everyone in the business, they are probably the least likely company to run out of franchises to produce new hits.
Well don't Nintendo only release one NSMB, MK and Smash per system. Thats pretty much all their big hitters and they are coming in the first two years of the system.
 

BishopLamont

Banned
Apr 22, 2007
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Well don't Nintendo only release one NSMB, MK and Smash per system. Thats pretty much all their big hitters and they are coming in the first two years of the system.
Yeah but there's many Marios that can be produced, after Galaxy Wii U is released, they can always release another Mario near the end of its life, whichever Mario that may be. Besides, there's other franchises that Nintendo could focus on. Have EAD produce a 2D Metroid for Wii U, would do gangbusters. This is the genration where they should try to bring their B tier franchises that deserve to have more recognition, bring them back to prominence for the next gen, where they'll need their first party more than ever.

Smash and MK will have DLC imo, if they don't go the late gen sequel route, they should at least jump on the DLC train. After Pokemon B&W 2 though, a sequel to any franchise is very possible.
 

Cygnus X-1

Member
Mar 7, 2007
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The handhelds always take Nintendo afloat.

I wonder if Wii U massive failure will bring some good sense in Nintendo's execs.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Apr 23, 2010
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Yeah but there's many Marios that can be produced, after Galaxy Wii U is released, they can always release another Mario near the end of its life, whichever Mario that may be. Besides, there's other franchises that Nintendo could focus on. Have EAD produce a 2D Metroid for Wii U, would do gangbusters. This is the genration where they should try to bring their B tier franchises that deserve to have more recognition, bring them back to prominence for the next gen, where they'll need their first party more than ever.

Smash and MK will have DLC imo, if they don't go the late gen sequel route, they should at least jump on the DLC train. After Pokemon B&W 2 though, a sequel to any franchise is very possible.
Metroid is not a big seller. It is super niche, essentially in the same pocket as Pikmin these days, same with Star Fox. Mantis is correct in that Nintendo really only have two big bullets for pushing console adoption these days and thats Kart and Smash. Once theyre out, nothing else comes close. Not even sure Zelda will push systems any more either.

Nintendo's home console business suffers because it doesn't have huge successes and hardware drivers like Pokemon and portable Animal Crossing (and on the Japanese side now, Monster Hunter). Last gen you could point to Wii Sports and Wii Fit as good replacements, but as we all know, that audience has long since moved on and won't be back unlike Pokemon players and AC obsessives.
 

marc^o^

Nintendo's Pro Bono PR Firm
Feb 17, 2005
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Well don't Nintendo only release one NSMB, MK and Smash per system. Thats pretty much all their big hitters and they are coming in the first two years of the system.
That's actually a good thing a new 3D Mario, a Mario Kart and Smash come early in Wii U's life. It needs systems sellers so that 3rd parties get an attractive enough userbase.

WiiFit U is also coming this year. Wii Sports is a sure bet. Mario Party, Kirby, Yoshi, >30 other Nintendo franchises, new IPs. With that controller and HD I don't think Nintendo will run out of ideas to make the old feel new again and to come up with fresh things.
 

Shiggy

Member
Jun 10, 2004
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That's actually a good thing a new 3D Mario, a Mario Kart and Smash come early in Wii U's life. It needs systems sellers so that 3rd parties get an attractive enough userbase.

WiiFit U is also coming this year. Wii Sports is a sure bet. Mario Party, Kirby, Yoshi, >30 other Nintendo franchises, new IPs. With that controller and HD I don't think Nintendo will run out of ideas to make the old feel new again and to come up with fresh things.
I just wonder when they will show games that make the old feel new again. Stuff like DKCR or NSMB U doesn't really feel new. It feels like more of the same, pretty much like Wii games with a resolution bump while not really increasing the quality of textures and the polycount. There's no game really showing why the Gamepad is worth it and it doesn't seem like there is any game going to do that soon. At least Nintendo hasn't shown such a title yet.
 

Shiggy

Member
Jun 10, 2004
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Metroid is something that could pull people to the platform that are not Nintendo fans. Something that they are in desperate need of.
It's something that won't see any marketing as it doesn't feature Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, or something for the expanded audience though.
 

AOC83

Banned
May 29, 2012
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It's something that won't see any marketing as it doesn't feature Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, or something for the expanded audience though.
Well Nintendo needs to market (have them in the first place) more mature gaming experiences if they ever want to have a shot at a decent selling console again.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Apr 23, 2010
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Metroid is something that could pull people to the platform that are not Nintendo fans. Something that they are in desperate need of.
It would need to be rebooted entirely and made by like some entirely new studio of veteran supertalent on the similar level of 343 or Respawn at this point. Thats the only way it'd become something big, as even Prime ran its course and everytime Retro mention stuff for it its all that Bounty Hunter character shit that is what dragged the whole thing down to failtown.
 

Shiggy

Member
Jun 10, 2004
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Maybe you are joking, but if you recall Other M had a pretty good advertising push with some high production commercials.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12-fbN0uWPo
Didn't know about that. Were they aired frequently? Then I don't understand the incredibly low sales in the US.

In Germany, you didn't see ads for any mature Wii titles such as Last Story, Xenoblade, Project Zero, Disaster, or Metroid. Only Mario, Wii _ titles, Art Academy, etc. Metroid: Other M was thus available for less than €10 after a few months, I got it for €3 and enjoyed it for its cinema mode. Couldn't bear the awful control setup and thus didn't play it.
 

Tobor

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Sep 15, 2006
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That's actually a good thing a new 3D Mario, a Mario Kart and Smash come early in Wii U's life. It needs systems sellers so that 3rd parties get an attractive enough userbase.

WiiFit U is also coming this year. Wii Sports is a sure bet. Mario Party, Kirby, Yoshi, >30 other Nintendo franchises, new IPs. With that controller and HD I don't think Nintendo will run out of ideas to make the old feel new again and to come up with fresh things.
Those games don't create an attractive userbase. It's the same demographic over and over. Nintendo needs to expand to different segments of the market to build the type of userbase third parties are looking for.
 

Shiggy

Member
Jun 10, 2004
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It's not an interesting concept.
Games with shooting in an alien setting and a lot of marketing can sell well. I agree, the game is incredibly bad due to its controls, yet I think it could've sold a lot better with some marketing, which it simply didn't receive in European markets.
 

Magicpaint

Member
May 19, 2005
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Those games don't create an attractive userbase. It's the same demographic over and over. Nintendo needs to expand to different segments of the market to build the type of userbase third parties are looking for.
I'm honestly convinced that Nintendo just doesn't care about attracting the same demographic that Western studios primarily target. It shows in their hardware design especially and they're having Retro Stduios make another Donkey Kong game instead of some new attractive IP with Western design sensibilities. And as long as that's the case, they'll never get good third party support.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Apr 23, 2010
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Games with shooting in an alien setting and a lot of marketing can sell well. I agree, the game is incredibly bad due to its controls, yet I think it could've sold a lot better with some marketing, which it simply didn't receive in European markets.
Same month as Halo: Reach. Alien shooting aficionados went there rather than Wii.
 

Aquamarine

Member
May 24, 2012
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Metroid is not a big seller. It is super niche, essentially in the same pocket as Pikmin these days, same with Star Fox. Mantis is correct in that Nintendo really only have two big bullets for pushing console adoption these days and thats Kart and Smash. Once theyre out, nothing else comes close. Not even sure Zelda will push systems any more either.

Nintendo's home console business suffers because it doesn't have huge successes and hardware drivers like Pokemon and portable Animal Crossing (and on the Japanese side now, Monster Hunter). Last gen you could point to Wii Sports and Wii Fit as good replacements, but as we all know, that audience has long since moved on and won't be back unlike Pokemon players and AC obsessives.
Regarding future Metroid games:

Internally, Nintendo of America considers the following as its tentpole / marquee franchises:

Code:
MARIO
POKEMON
DONKEY KONG / DIDDY KONG
ZELDA
YOSHI
STAR FOX
KIRBY
WARIO
METROID
I assume, given NOA's closeness to its parent company NCL (Kimishima / Iwata), that same policy would be reflected across recent game output.

After all, we've seen in the past two years:

Code:
MARIO[B] - NSMB U, NSL U, etc.[/B]
POKEMON [B]- Pokemon X / Y[/B]
DONKEY KONG / DIDDY KONG[B] - DK: TF[/B]
ZELDA [B]- Zelda: Wind Waker HD, Zelda Wii U, Zelda: A Link Between Worlds[/B]
YOSHI [B]- Yarn Yoshi and Yoshi's New Island[/B]
STAR FOX [B]- Star Fox 64 3D[/B]
KIRBY [B]- Kirby Mass Attack, Kirby: Return to Dreamland, Kirby Dream Collection, and most likely Kirby 3DS[/B]
WARIO [B]- Game and Wario[/B]
METROID
It's only Metroid that remains without some form of recent / announced title related to the IP.

Naturally, I bet Metroid is not going unnoticed by NCL. We even got a small teaser with the "Metroid Blast" minigame in Nintendo Land. While it may not be a big-budget Wii U production by Retro, I reckon some form of 2D Metroid exists within the depths of Nintendo SPD as a future, unannounced game.

You know, a reboot ala. Zelda: A Link Between Worlds for the 3DS.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Apr 23, 2010
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Yeah, I guess I'm expecting a New Super Metroid or something at some point since even Zelda's got its own one in the form of LttP 2.

Fusion left the series in such an interesting place, seemingly never to be continued. Since then as well titles like Batman Arkham Asylum and possibly even Tomb Raider took the Metroidvania concept into 3D in more enjoyable ways than the Prime series did, and of course theres been no shortage of 2d go-arounds from other devs.

After Other-M, the franchise feels far too muddled to not need a total reboot, and I'm not entirely sure who I'd trust to make it at Nintendo. Even the people that made the Prime series what it is have almost entirely left Retro I believe. I always remember the futility of Nintendo trying to line up the Prime games against Halo releases as the Xbox started grabbing mindshare almost from that series alone.
 

watershed

Banned
Mar 12, 2011
19,593
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The Metroid producer, can't remember his name at the moment, mentioned a possible Metroid game that explored the other bounty hunters. It made me think of a more shooter, action oriented game but I hope to god that's not gonna be the next Metroid game we get.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Jan 2, 2007
39,633
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Why not just make a great 2.5D, non-linear Metroidvania game like Strider 3? I'd rather it be a big 3DS release than a misguided Wii U travesty.

The game is never going to move big enough numbers to justify being a massive 3D HD game (unless you give it the controls of a "traditional" FPS, which Nintendo has never done outside of Geist), may as well stick to its roots if Prime is truly dead. And no one cares about Samus' shitty friends, the sales have spiraled downwards as they've tried to expand the protagonists.
 

w1gglyjones

Member
Apr 20, 2013
2,255
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Why not just make a great 2.5D, non-linear Metroidvania game like Strider 3? I'd rather it be a big 3DS release than a misguided Wii U travesty.

The game is never going to move big enough numbers to justify being a massive 3D HD game (unless you give it the controls of a "traditional" FPS, which Nintendo has never done outside of Geist), may as well stick to its roots if Prime is truly dead. And no one cares about Samus' shitty friends, the sales have spiraled downwards as they've tried to expand the protagonists.
M+K ?
 

w1gglyjones

Member
Apr 20, 2013
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Yes, they should put m+k controls in a console game, which should really push units in a console shooter. That is exactly what I meant.
Right, so you're point is that before dual analog FPS games became more popular... M+K was preferred and people eventually got used to using dual analogs... and somehow the IR pointer controls in Metroid Prime could never possibly have the potential to become mainstream in some fashion (with or without the Wiimote).

That's what your saying? Okay...

Anyway, back to your original point:

The game is never going to move big enough numbers to justify being a massive 3D HD game (unless you give it the controls of a "traditional" FPS, which Nintendo has never done outside of Geist)
Controls are at the bottom of the list when it comes to "why Metroid wouldn't move big enough numbers."
 

kswiston

Member
Mar 25, 2005
35,138
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Right, so you're point is that before dual analog FPS games became more popular... M+K was preferred and people eventually got used to using dual analogs... and somehow the IR pointer controls in Metroid Prime could never possibly have the potential to become mainstream in some fashion (with or without the Wiimote).

That's what your saying? Okay...
IR controls aren't exactly a new thing. If they were going to catch on for anything other than light gun games, I think they would have by now.
 

w1gglyjones

Member
Apr 20, 2013
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IR controls aren't exactly a new thing. If they were going to catch on for anything other than light gun games, I think they would have by now.
They don't have to be "IR" controls, a more sophisticated pointer system equally applies. And they haven't been pushed into the mainstream through the "AAA inudstry." Those types of controls were never pushed by the big publishers for these types of games, nor were they made accessible by the platform holders.

To say that they would have taken hold by now and compare their lack of popularity to dual analog shooter acceptance is disingenuous. Mind you, I'm not saying that they would, in fact, become that mainstream. I'm simply pointing out that dual analog FPS games were not mainstream at one point, and then they became mainstream, in pat, at least, due to certain factors which, so far, haven't benefited pointer controls.

For a thing to "catch on," as you put it, it needs to have more than just utility.
 

Myshkin

Member
Oct 4, 2012
901
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Great result for The Last of Us. 360 being the highest selling console for 30 consecutive months is crazy too.
And 360's going to stay the top seller. That won't change until the new consoles are out for a while, or if someone makes a price cut. Where would a price cut come from? Nintendo screwed up their console and finds it hard to cut price. Sony is happy with their position right now, and won't cut price if no one else does.
 

darkside31337

Tomodachi wa Mahou
May 31, 2011
34,803
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And 360's going to stay the top seller. That won't change until the new consoles are out for a while, or if someone makes a price cut. Where would a price cut come from? Nintendo screwed up their console and finds it hard to cut price. Sony is happy with their position right now, and won't cut price if no one else does.
My prediction is the streak ends when GTA5 comes out. If theres any game that can move systems this late in the cycle its GTA and the PS3 is the one thats getting the bundle.

Would also be a good time for a price cut.
 
Dec 27, 2007
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Akron, OH
I'm sorry but your points about the Wii U's current year software output don't support "Iwata is intentionally taking measures to boost short term profits that will likely cripple future sustainability." These games were planned for well before the Wii U launched and before Nintendo realized they had a big problem with the product itself.

Also, your point of "Wii U is front loaded with Nintendo's heavy hitting 'traditional' games and Nintendo won't have any blockbuster games left over for later" makes even less sense. For starters, you're saying that Nintendo literally will be incapable of producing quality software beyond this FY cause they are "shooting their load" too early. Furthermore, you say that Nintendo should try to maintain future sustainability but at the same time have an issue with them "shooting their load" this year to boost hardware sales of the Wii U.

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with their strategy, but the idea that these plans are motivated by some last minute effort by Iwata to "save his job" through short term profits that sacrifice their future profitability are pretty wacky claims. You could at least try substantiate them better after the holidays or the end of this fiscal year.

On the 3DS front, you think that the 3DS hardware needs a lower price to maximize its longevity and compare it to DS sales. I'm not going to discuss the issue of just how healthy the 3DS is vs. how healthy is should be or might be in the future because it's complicated topic. It's your opinion that the price should be lower in order to increase hardware sales beyond what they are currently. Maybe you are right, but I don't have an opinion on that.

But I do think that even on this point, it's a far cry to say that the chief reason the 3DS hasn't gotten a price cut is because Iwata is sacrificing potential growth in that platform to increase the bottom line this year. It's especially odd because if you are right, then he'll just be in the same situation next year. Of course, you might respond by saying that he's intentionally prolonging the inevitable and he may or may not realize that.

Your valuation of 3DS software is silly. "I'm not paying $40 for a 3DS game..." Okay... that's nice. Every game on every platform is worth something different to every consumer. I'm not even sure why a dedicated gamer would be fine paying $40 for a handheld game in their favorite series 10 years ago, but would scoff at the idea now. Why? Because of doodle jump and "der zombies ate my breakfast v1.09"??

I'm not saying that the perceived value of handheld games hasn't eroded. It has. But there are other factors to consider, and since you've gotten yourself in the game of "this is myopic," it would be nice for you to reflect on the fact that perhaps you are the one who is oblivious for certain factors that affect or dictate issues in this realm.

Plus, they literally just ran a massive and successful promotion in the EU, and a similar, smaller promotion in NA. Ultimately, no matter how cheap 3DS software "needs" to be to move volume, you're literally pointing at all 2013 Nintendo business decisions as some kind of plot by Iwata to "take active steps to increase profits this year while knowingly (or unknowingly) hurting future sustainability"
First off, sorry about how strident I was in my response.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Iwata since no one but him knows why he is choosing to launch an unprecedented deluge of platformers for 2013. Except for motion controls he is routinely at least 3 years behind on things so maybe he truly believes the best way to improve Wii U sales is to bum rush it with a genre that was popular 1985-1995 and 3006-2010 with declining sales since. I will be shocked, especially absent a massive price drop, if it has any effect on the Wii U slide to Dreamcastville. It already started off with the biggest 2D platformer of them all to little effect, and in Japan we have seen Wii U sales respond to getting NSLU, Pikmin 3, and advertising with a shrug. I think though that when combined with how the 3DS is being treated it's evidence that there may be a different focus for Iwata. Again, no one really knows except him.

On the 3DS, I only use myself because I am a huge gamer so if I (and many others I've come across) balk at $40 handheld games then so do most lower interest gamers. I could be wrong, but sales certainly indicate I'm not. Also, there is nothing shocking about being willing to pay less for something than you did in the past. I bought an HD TV for $800 years back, it was worth it at the time. I would hesitate to spend more than half that today even though the TV is better. Times change, though as I noted above Iwata seems to be particularly slow in noticing.

I understand most of Iwata's not especially long-term decision making in a few years back in the period of the strong yen. It was brutal for Nintendo and Iwata recognized reality that time regarding the 3DS which was a double whammy. I can only imagine what went on behind closed doors, so yeah it wouldn't surprise me at all if Iwata is focusing on getting profits up this year and not on what is best for Nintendo 2014 and beyond. To throw out another possibility for the Wii U, given Iwata almost completely unanticipated what just about every other company in the industry knew about HD development, maybe half of Nintendo is furiously learning leaving only half to make games. In that case easier to make but past their second prime 2D platformers are attractive. If that is true then Iwata needs to be fired regardless.

Well Nintendo needs to market (have them in the first place) more mature gaming experiences if they ever want to have a shot at a decent selling console again.
Pretty much, but Nintendo seems stuck in 2008-10.

Didn't know about that. Were they aired frequently? Then I don't understand the incredibly low sales in the US.

In Germany, you didn't see ads for any mature Wii titles such as Last Story, Xenoblade, Project Zero, Disaster, or Metroid. Only Mario, Wii _ titles, Art Academy, etc. Metroid: Other M was thus available for less than €10 after a few months, I got it for €3 and enjoyed it for its cinema mode. Couldn't bear the awful control setup and thus didn't play it.
Other M had a pretty considerable ad push in the US. In addition to the TV commercials and the usual internet ads, the Wal-Mart I worked at at the time was absolutely festooned with Other M ads for weeks before it came out. Nintendo basically bought all the ad space in the store (exaggerating a little but not by much). The initial shipment was fairly large with 2 slots filled and almost as much stacked behind them (around 40 copies, big for a non-Mario/Wii ___ Wii game). I kept track for the next 2 months, 3 were sold. It was Reggie's baby for some reason.

It didn't sell well because 1), the Metroid fanbase is small, maybe 2 million at most, 2) other core gamers who might be interested had moved on from the Wii, and 3) it was awful.
 

KyanMehwulfe

Member
Aug 26, 2004
10,843
178
1,345
Huntusk
www3.telus.net
Microsoft EDD still lost money last quarter. They had the 900m write down on Surface inventory but Y/Y they still had consecutive losses.

MS was down a incredible ~11% on Friday which baffles me considering how many funds own $ms but the PC and surface data was incredible, but XBox still isn't even making a mark on it. Translation rev is up but the division overall is still losing many Q4 (though profitable annually). Still, MS must be desperate to milk as much profit as possible out of Xbox Live and its platforms. And, as a shareholder, I hope they do. (Though I still don't know if I want to game on one myself.)

In this context I'm not surprised by the Xbox One decisions.

Curious to see how MS EDD does in the pre-One window and post-Surface discount.
 

w1gglyjones

Member
Apr 20, 2013
2,255
0
0
First off, sorry about how strident I was in my response.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Iwata since no one but him knows why he is choosing to launch an unprecedented deluge of platformers for 2013. Except for motion controls he is routinely at least 3 years behind on things so maybe he truly believes the best way to improve Wii U sales is to bum rush it with a genre that was popular 1985-1995 and 3006-2010 with declining sales since. I will be shocked, especially absent a massive price drop, if it has any effect on the Wii U slide to Dreamcastville. It already started off with the biggest 2D platformer of them all to little effect, and in Japan we have seen Wii U sales respond to getting NSLU, Pikmin 3, and advertising with a shrug. I think though that when combined with how the 3DS is being treated it's evidence that there may be a different focus for Iwata. Again, no one really knows except him.

On the 3DS, I only use myself because I am a huge gamer so if I (and many others I've come across) balk at $40 handheld games then so do most lower interest gamers. I could be wrong, but sales certainly indicate I'm not. Also, there is nothing shocking about being willing to pay less for something than you did in the past. I bought an HD TV for $800 years back, it was worth it at the time. I would hesitate to spend more than half that today even though the TV is better. Times change, though as I noted above Iwata seems to be particularly slow in noticing.

I understand most of Iwata's not especially long-term decision making in a few years back in the period of the strong yen. It was brutal for Nintendo and Iwata recognized reality that time regarding the 3DS which was a double whammy. I can only imagine what went on behind closed doors, so yeah it wouldn't surprise me at all if Iwata is focusing on getting profits up this year and not on what is best for Nintendo 2014 and beyond. To throw out another possibility for the Wii U, given Iwata almost completely unanticipated what just about every other company in the industry knew about HD development, maybe half of Nintendo is furiously learning leaving only half to make games. In that case easier to make but past their second prime 2D platformers are attractive. If that is true then Iwata needs to be fired regardless.
I don't have much of an opinion on the trajectory Iwata has plotted for Nintendo beyond saying that I think the Wii was correct in it's under-powered/novelty approach, but that Wii U needed to be more traditional that it is.

The conversation, in my eyes, started with a discussion of Iwata making current decisions to boost FY profits that would somehow negatively impact Nintendo's future sustainability, intentionally or unintentionally. So that's really where I wanted to comment, because I don't think the evidence can show this. In fact, Iwata and Nintendo thought that the Wii U would be selling well (definitely better than it has been) and so, up until around January 2013, I would say that their decisions were made with that future in mind.

Before they saw how awful Wii U sales were, they had already paid Warner Bros. for an exclusive game in Lego City, paid P* for W101 (which costs 1.5 times the original Bayo), paid Sega and P* for Bayo2. Their R&D expense and staff hiring has increased by a significant amount over the last three years. They hired Leo Burnett to run the marketing campaign (in NA) for both 3DS and Wii U. Again, I'm not defending Nintendo or the Wii U here.

When you look at currently sales, in hindsight, clearly, their decisions were not enough. But they really thought that the Wii U would sell faster and in that light the 3rd party content they initially announced seemed to be a good first step.

The Wii U's sales problems are not primarily with their inability to secure/moneyhat exclusive third party content. Nor can they simply buy multiplatform games, that's ridiculous. The problem was that their product and/or marketing was inferior and then, in January they pushed back all their games due to poor sales and development schedule issues. This decision was made consciously.

But whatever content is coming out in 2013 had already been planned for before they realized that sales were going to implode. There is a problem with the product itself, so from this perspective, I say that it's hard to simply accuse Iwata of sacrificing future sustainability for short term profits. That's all I'm saying, and don't have much of an opinion on Nintendo's future direction or Wii U sales targets.

The later examples you provide are more examples to make a case of his poor management than his sacrificing sustainability in favor of this FY's profits. Just because you or I think he made bad management decisions last year or the year before or this year doesn't necessarily mean that he made those decisions to increase this year's profits while intentionally or unintentionally sacrificing future sustainability. That's the distinction I'm making and the conversation I initially entered. So I hope I've cleared up where I'm coming from here. I'm not interested in discussing Nintendo's management philosophy or current business decisions outside of that lens.

As for the 3DS, I think you missed my point. There is no arbiter to tell any individual how much a game is worth. People who feel that a console game is more likely to be worth $60 than a handheld game be worth $40 based solely on that distinction alone are people whose opinions I don't take very seriously (not saying that's you).

To say that a handheld game's intrinsic value has decreased for gamers (people who appreciate quality games) because cheap mobile/tablet games are now ubiquitous is silly to me. Of course, the market has demonstrated that fewer people are willing to buy a handheld and buy handheld software at the previous suggested prices. But that's not what I'm talking about. I don't judge the value of console games or handhelds games or PC games based on shitty mobile alternatives and substitutes. Whether the smartphone/tablet market has eroded the handheld market is not (or shouldn't be) as relevant on a case by case basis when a gaming enthusiast evaluates a particular handheld titles.

To say that a great game (to you), be it Sound Shapes or Fire Emblem or Soul Sacrifice or Luigi's Mansion 2, is somehow worth less now (to you) because of "the smartphone market," or to say that you'd be willing to pay closer to $40 for those games 5-10 years ago than you are now, sounds mind-numbingly stupid to me.
 
Jun 26, 2011
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When I first heard Sony was going to release a new IP at the end of the gen I wondered why not wait but it's really smart: take a mature engine who's development has been paid for and test the game out in the market. If it flops you're not out too much, if it succeeds your investment was low and you get the moolah and the momentum going into the next gen.
The best thing is that it's an awesome game. AWESOME.
 

jetjevons

Bish loves my games!
Jun 13, 2004
7,938
1
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Santa Monica, Ca
they had already paid Warner Bros. for an exclusive game in Lego City, paid P* for W101 (which costs 1.5 times the original Bayo), paid Sega and P* for Bayo2. Their R&D expense and staff hiring has increased by a significant amount over the last three years. They hired Leo Burnett to run the marketing campaign (in NA) for both 3DS and Wii U. .
And thus... they had it covered?