NPD Sales Results for May 2013 [Up2: 360, 3DS Est, Software lowest since May 2000]

Dec 10, 2012
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I think the key word here is hype. I expect PS4 and Xbox1 to bomb as hard or more than Wiiu. The world is a much different place right now... and i dont see a 400$ or a 500$ home console making any splash.
I don't understand where you are coming from. Clearly the hype for Ps4/Xbox One is nothing like it was for the Wii U.

People actually talk about those systems, they are talked about in the press everywhere, you see countless people talking about them in social networks. There's hype for them, while it seems like the Wii U was only hyped by Nintendo fans.

The awareness, hype, pre order excitement is in a different world from Xbox One/Ps4 to Wii U.

I understand some want to cast the blame on the market and not on Nintendo, but really not even Nintendo believes that. So really believing that they will bomb as hard or more than the Wii U.... honestly it's just a crazy belief, down to the point where it feels more like wishful thinking.
 
Mar 1, 2011
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3DS finally entering beast mode outside of Japan.
Hardly. It's top of the pile, and the uptick in software figures is encouraging, but this isn't a big smashing success.

If it gets big figures because of Animal Crossing and then keeps momentum into the holidays, it might be closer. We're certainly nowhere near Japan-style domination yet.
 
Sep 11, 2006
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Finally, an NPD thread where this gif is mostly appropriate.



I'm really interested to see if the lull of sales these months are really because people are waiting for next gen.
I dont think thats the answer since software sales are the lowest since May 2000.

I don't understand where you are coming from. Clearly the hype for Ps4/Xbox One is nothing like it was for the Wii U.

People actually talk about those systems, they are talked about in the press everywhere, you see countless people talking about them in social networks. There's hype for them, while it seems like the Wii U was only hyped by Nintendo fans.

The awareness, hype, pre order excitement is in a different world from Xbox One/Ps4 to Wii U.

I understand some want to cast the blame on the market and not on Nintendo, but really not even Nintendo believes that. So really believing that they will bomb as hard or more than the Wii U.... honestly it's just a crazy belief, down to the point where it feels more like wishful thinking.
I guess we just have to wait and see, but go ahead and look for sales during the first year of the 360 and PS3, and remember that the overall economy is much much worse than then.
 
Jun 7, 2011
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I don't understand where you are coming from. Clearly the hype for Ps4/Xbox One is nothing like it was for the Wii U.

People actually talk about those systems, they are talked about in the press everywhere, you see countless people talking about them in social networks. There's hype for them, while it seems like the Wii U was only hyped by Nintendo fans.

The awareness, hype, pre order excitement is in a different world from Xbox One/Ps4 to Wii U.

I understand some want to cast the blame on the market and not on Nintendo, but really not even Nintendo believes that. So really believing that they will bomb as hard or more than the Wii U.... honestly it's just a crazy belief, down to the point where it feels more like wishful thinking.
The hardcore gamer segment is talking about it. Outside that market segment, I don't think anyone cares at this time. It needs to actually BE in the stores to see what the other electronics segments think about the boxes.
 
Dec 10, 2012
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The hardcore gamer segment is talking about it. Outside that market segment, I don't think anyone cares at this time. It needs to actually BE in the stores to see what the other electronics segments think about the boxes.
Call it hardcore or casual, point is before Ps4 and Xbox One are out, they are already considered much more relevant products than the Wii U ever was. And that's by publishers, gamers, press and stores that sell videogames.

People who want to draw a parallel with the Wii U need facts to back them up, and they have none.
 
Sep 11, 2006
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That's neglecting digital business, in fairness.
Thats true but sales are going down overall in most markets and not only in videogames. I dont expect any console to do better than its predecesor.

Call it hardcore or casual, point is before Ps4 and Xbox One are out, they are already considered much more relevant products than the Wii U ever was. And that's by publishers, gamers, press and stores that sell videogames.

People who want to draw a parallel with the Wii U need facts to back them up, and they have none.
My fact is that the economy right now is in a shithole and there is no place for a 400 or 500 console like PS4 or XBOX1. There is not a place for a 300$ console like wiiu either.
 
Jun 9, 2012
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Thanks Shinra for the 3DS numbers. It definitely bears pointing out that despite the fact that the 3DS "recovered" its still only 20k or so above its low where people were thinking the system was dead. Sure Animal Crossing, Pokemon, and Zelda will be good for the system (I'm not sure where the idea Mario Party will be a huge system seller in this day and age is coming from), but at the current point the 3DS in America's recovery was mainly a software one. The 3DS is much cheaper and has much better support than the Wii U probably ever will be, so I still wonder what in the world do people expect out of the holiday lineup for Wii U. Do they reallly expect the baseline to go to 100k+ because it would be unprecedented. No, in all likelihood the monthly numbers for Wii U will remain under 100k outside of the holidays, and outside of Smash and Mario Kart next year the lineup is going to be barren for huge hits with 3rd party support dwindling.


As for Vita, the idea that Sony being some pillar of gaming is going to make retailers suddenly not care that the system is wasting space in their stores is funny. Sony is not the end be all of the gaming industry anymore. Does anyone really think Sony would get themselves in a potential fight at this crucial moment over something selling like Vita which is sure profitable on a per unit basis, but likely their last dedicated handheld?
 
Feb 7, 2005
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Is this true? Like bigger than your usual post game layoffs? Cause that would be surprising. Sly 4 has most likely beaten Sonys expectations by quite a bit and the game had like zero marketing. The damn game refuses to drop from the PAL nordic charts too. It has beaten quite a few new releases months after release.

I'd be surprised if they weren't working on Sly 5 (or some other IP for Sony like Jak or Ratchet).

You sure you ain't thinking about Superbot?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure he means Superbot, who certainly have had massive layoffs. I'm not sure that Sanzaru can even have massive layoffs, since they're a pretty small team (around 60 guys and gals).
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Mar 10, 2011
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Hardly. It's top of the pile, and the uptick in software figures is encouraging, but this isn't a big smashing success.

If it gets big figures because of Animal Crossing and then keeps momentum into the holidays, it might be closer. We're certainly nowhere near Japan-style domination yet.
Yeah, it is essential to see if 3DS can sustain the momentum created by Animal Crossing for a good amount of time. We just know it sold around what it did in the last two months in AC's debut week, but big debuts can be useless if they don't provide a sustained increase in sales after them.
 
Nov 17, 2004
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Thanks Shinra for the 3DS numbers. It definitely bears pointing out that despite the fact that the 3DS "recovered" its still only 20k or so above its low where people were thinking the system was dead. Sure Animal Crossing, Pokemon, and Zelda will be good for the system (I'm not sure where the idea Mario Party will be a huge system seller in this day and age is coming from), but at the current point the 3DS in America's recovery was mainly a software one. The 3DS is much cheaper and has much better support than the Wii U probably ever will be, so I still wonder what in the world do people expect out of the holiday lineup for Wii U. Do they reallly expect the baseline to go to 100k+ because it would be unprecedented. No, in all likelihood the monthly numbers for Wii U will remain under 100k outside of the holidays, and outside of Smash and Mario Kart next year the lineup is going to be barren for huge hits with 3rd party support dwindling.


As for Vita, the idea that Sony being some pillar of gaming is going to make retailers suddenly not care that the system is wasting space in their stores is funny. Sony is not the end be all of the gaming industry anymore. Does anyone really think Sony would get themselves in a potential fight at this crucial moment over something selling like Vita which is sure profitable on a per unit basis, but likely their last dedicated handheld?
You can't seriously believe that can you? That's the ultimate doomsday prediction. That only a million people buy the Wii U when its all said and done and then the system gets dropped. No sir
 
Jun 9, 2012
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You can't seriously believe that can you? That's the ultimate doomsday prediction. That only a million people buy the Wii U when its all said and done and then the system gets dropped. No sir
Er...you might want to read that again. I said the system stays under 100k a month outside the holidays. First of all I'm not sure what math you did but if it averages 100k a month with the holidays it still sells millions of units with a healthy lifespan. 2nd this is just America. Basically I'm saying Nintendo is looking down the barrel of gamecube sales once again.
 
Jul 12, 2012
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I don't understand where you are coming from. Clearly the hype for Ps4/Xbox One is nothing like it was for the Wii U.

People actually talk about those systems, they are talked about in the press everywhere, you see countless people talking about them in social networks. There's hype for them, while it seems like the Wii U was only hyped by Nintendo fans.

The awareness, hype, pre order excitement is in a different world from Xbox One/Ps4 to Wii U.

I understand some want to cast the blame on the market and not on Nintendo, but really not even Nintendo believes that. So really believing that they will bomb as hard or more than the Wii U.... honestly it's just a crazy belief, down to the point where it feels more like wishful thinking.
Time will tell, but I think you're just seeing what you want to see, as are some other parties involved here (publishers, retailers, some segments of the press, etc).

Both consoles will sell fine over the holidays (Wii U did last year as well). After that will be the real test. Of course the hardcore fans will buy it at launch, but what comes after that is the key. Sometimes we need to spend some time outside the gaf echo chamber to make sure we keep perspective.
 

jcm

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Dec 8, 2008
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False, the 3DS is up YoY from 113.5k last year.
It's effectively flat, due to rounding and sampling error. It's definitely not "beast mode", at any rate. Some comps:

Code:
Year Over Year      
      2013   2012  % Change
360    114    160   -28.75%
PS3     85    124   -31.45%
WIU     35    
WII     36     71   -49.30%
3DS    114    114     0.00%
NDS     34     95   -64.21%
PSV     15     55   -72.73%
PSP      4     17   -76.47%
      
Family      
MSFT   114    160   -28.75%
SONY   104    196   -46.94%
NINT   219    280   -21.79%
      
HAND   167    281   -40.57%
CONS   270    355   -23.94%
      
Gen over Gen      
Cons  2013   2006  % Change
360           221  
PS2           232  
XBX            26  
GCN            33  
TOTAL  270    512   -47.27%
      
Hand  2013   2007  % Change
NDS           423  
PSP           221  
GBA            81  
Total  167    725   -76.97%
 
Nov 13, 2011
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It's effectively flat, due to rounding and sampling error. It's definitely not "beast mode", at any rate. Some comps:
Something went off with your columns.

Take away the Wii U and the 2006 360 and you have home consoles "only" down around 20% from their sixth gen equivalents, which given their longevity and relatively high price points - seems okay.

Meanwhile the dedicated handheld market is clearly consolidating and transitioning onto a single new generational device and even then that device is failing to show growth.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
Mar 10, 2011
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Yep, it's down YTD, although I'm not sure it is in Europe.

I'd bet cold hard cash that's changed by the end of the year, though. In both territories.
There is a possibility in Europe the downward trend has stopped and has started being reverted, especially looking at the shares for the last two months, and considering Animal Crossing got released just a few days ago over here.
 
May 19, 2005
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Shit.... wonder if sony has had to shut down manufacturing on vita yet like nintendo had to do with the gamecube
There has to be a ton of Vitas unsold in retail channels so I wouldn't be surprised at all. Shifting less than 20k a month is horrific. I wonder if things will pickup with the upcoming lineup of indie games. I can't see those selling to much beyond the current owners tbh since indie stuff doesn't get much exposure outside of that circle.

Should be interesting to see what Animal Crossing does for the 3DS, but so far, it seems like NA only has room for one dedicated handheld and even that is putting out middling numbers at best.
 
Jun 13, 2012
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As for Vita, the idea that Sony being some pillar of gaming is going to make retailers suddenly not care that the system is wasting space in their stores is funny.
It's not retailers they have pull with, it is gaming-centric retailers. And yes, Sony is one of the three main pillars in retail gaming.

Sony is not the end be all of the gaming industry anymore.
And water is wet. Point?

Does anyone really think Sony would get themselves in a potential fight at this crucial moment over something selling like Vita which is sure profitable on a per unit basis, but likely their last dedicated handheld?
Nobody thinks that. Business partners work together, and since Sony is an important partner with gamestop, gamestop will listen to any requests sony might have. Putting some vitas between the used wii fitboards and the foam minecraft swords isn't a particularly onerous request.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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Is this true? Like bigger than your usual post game layoffs? Cause that would be surprising. Sly 4 has most likely beaten Sonys expectations by quite a bit and the game had like zero marketing. The damn game refuses to drop from the PAL nordic charts too. It has beaten quite a few new releases months after release.

I'd be surprised if they weren't working on Sly 5 (or some other IP for Sony like Jak or Ratchet).

You sure you ain't thinking about Superbot?
Nope, Sanzaru. You may have missed it because it came a few months before the game actually shipped.

Also this confirmation from a former employee:
November 26, 2012 Update:


Greetings! Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time is wrapped and set for release on February 5, 2013! In less happy news, Sanzaru Games, through no fault of their own, has had to downsize and layoff much of its staff today... myself being among them. We had such an amazingly talented team and I have made some of the best friends there. I wish the remaining Monkeys at Sanzaru Games the best and hope we may work together again in the future! For now, I forge ahead and embark on a new advencha!
 
Aug 4, 2012
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it is funny to see people harping on about vita. the sales are not good no doubt but it doesn't look like Sony is worried or pressured like people seem to imply. they are not going to discontinue it and i haven't seen anyone come out and say sony needs to do something about the vita (publishers, retailers and Sony itself) like they do with wii u. yes companies may choose not to support it or retailers may cut down shelf space but thats it. if there was any pressure of it being removed then we would have heard about it or Sony would be taking drastic measures to push for sales. right now sony is just letting it coast along. they are making money on it and probably a lot more than people think if we add memory card, accessories and digital purchases. with all these bundles and adding more games to each bundle as free games with plus etc... all doesn't cost Sony much since they are digital. they will probably do a huge push around september and october with killzone and tearaway and then fall back to coasting along. i have always said it that it will be a slow burn in a world dominated by smartphones and it doesn't make sense losing money on it by dropping price when there is not a lot of demand especially when it is making them and people that put software on it enough money to justify it.
 
Jun 13, 2012
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it is funny to see people harping on about vita. the sales are not good no doubt but it doesn't look like Sony is worried or pressured like people seem to imply. they are not going to discontinue it and i haven't seen anyone come out and say sony needs to do something about the vita (publishers, retailers and Sony itself) like they do with wii u. yes companies may choose not to support it or retailers may cut down shelf space but thats it. if there was any pressure of it being removed then we would have heard about it or Sony would be taking drastic measures to push for sales. right now sony is just letting it coast along. they are making money on it and probably a lot more than people think if we add memory card, accessories and digital purchases. with all these bundles and adding more games to each bundle as free games with plus etc... all doesn't cost Sony much since they are digital. they will probably do a huge push around september and october with killzone and tearaway and then fall back to coasting along. i have always said it that it will be a slow burn in a world dominated by smartphones and it doesn't make sense losing money on it by dropping price when there is not a lot of demand especially when it is making them and people that put software on it enough money to justify it.
You have an appropriate moniker.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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Nobody thinks that. Business partners work together, and since Sony is an important partner with gamestop, gamestop will listen to any requests sony might have. Putting some vitas between the used wii fitboards and the foam minecraft swords isn't a particularly onerous request.
Even assuming Sony does have the leverage to force retailers to maintain some token level of Vita stock, how low can shipments get before it's no longer worth Sony's while to continue production? Given current sales and the known software lineup, even assuming I'm wrong and Sony keeps it in production through FY2014, I don't see how they'll be able to ship more than 1.5M worldwide next fiscal year, and quite possibly a good deal less.
 
Sep 5, 2009
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Shit, Vita doing less than what PSP sold in May 2012.
That is crazy!!

Edit: Goddamn at those handheld figures above. The handheld market has been decimated.
Yep. The handheld market is being strangled right now by Phones/tablets with no easy solution. Regardless of now many quality titles are released I feel parents now see dedicated handhelds as overpriced simply because of paying $30-$40 for game on top of the hardware isnt attractive when they can buy a $200 nexus 7 or Ipod touch and they get games for $1 - $5. I know these are the not same experinces but they are nice on the parents wallet.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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3DS has been down YOY for almost a year now, maybe longer, hasn't it? People like to mention in Wii U threads that Nintendo can turn that around "just like they did with the 3DS" but I think that's actually not the case. The 3DS has had a really good game line up since last fall, but the sales of the actual hardware have been horrendous since then.

The truth of the matter is that outside of Japan, 3DS is still doing extremely poor compared to the DS. Nintendo hasn't saved that system yet.
 
Sep 5, 2009
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3DS has been down YOY for almost a year now, maybe longer, hasn't it? People like to mention in Wii U threads that Nintendo can turn that around "just like they did with the 3DS" but I think that's actually not the case. The 3DS has had a really good game line up since last fall, but the sales of the actual hardware have been horrendous since then.

The truth of the matter is that outside of Japan, 3DS is still doing extremely poor compared to the DS. Nintendo hasn't saved that system yet.
Far from it and they know this. They have mentioned more than enough times that sales in the West must improve.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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it is funny to see people harping on about vita. the sales are not good no doubt but it doesn't look like Sony is worried or pressured like people seem to imply. they are not going to discontinue it and i haven't seen anyone come out and say sony needs to do something about the vita (publishers, retailers and Sony itself) like they do with wii u. yes companies may choose not to support it or retailers may cut down shelf space but thats it. if there was any pressure of it being removed then we would have heard about it or Sony would be taking drastic measures to push for sales. right now sony is just letting it coast along. they are making money on it and probably a lot more than people think if we add memory card, accessories and digital purchases. with all these bundles and adding more games to each bundle as free games with plus etc... all doesn't cost Sony much since they are digital. they will probably do a huge push around september and october with killzone and tearaway and then fall back to coasting along. i have always said it that it will be a slow burn in a world dominated by smartphones and it doesn't make sense losing money on it by dropping price when there is not a lot of demand especially when it is making them and people that put software on it enough money to justify it.
You must think Nintendo is perfectly happy with Wii U's sales, since they haven't taken any drastic action, either.

"Panic mode" requires actually having a panic button to push, ya know.
 
Sep 17, 2010
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Should be interesting to see what Animal Crossing does for the 3DS, but so far, it seems like NA only has room for one dedicated handheld and even that is putting out middling numbers at best.
Traditionally, the dedicated handheld market has always been Nintendo plus everything else as some kind of rounding error. So this generation would be a return to norm after the anomalous success of the PSP. Though Nintendo's inability to grow the market further after the DS is troubling - perhaps caused by a lack of new IPs like Nintendogs and Brain Age to broaden the 3DS' appeal.