NPD Sales Results for September 2013 [Up2: Console positioning, 360 estimate]

eival

Junior Member
Apr 17, 2013
406
0
0
wait doesnt NPD still not have access to Walmart numbers, along with digital.

why exactly are their numbers...er they dont even release raw numbers anymore, so why are there rankings any more credible than vg-charts again?

and i heard Patrick Klepek and Alex talking about these NPD charts not actually giving raw numbers a few weeks ago on their AM show, so dont give me the runaround about theres different tiers of NPD access or whatever, those guys would have the highest tier access if there was one.

how is seeing "1.GTA" better than "GTA + these raw numbers we've acquired which are clearly higher than everything else and thus i can make my own conclusion that its a hell of a lot further than the game in number 2 and get a much more obvious and realistic chart of how the gaming world is, rather than wondering if the games are just a few hundred copies apart, which NDP leaves up in the air"

this is like the Major Nelson top 20 list on XBL, wow theres 4 COD games in the top 5, and Minecraft right at number 2 and some really dumb game like Doritos Crash Course down near 20, so thats great, but how bout some context, is Doritos getting a million players, or is XBL really that dead that a few hundred are playing it and its still the 20th most popular game, Minecraft only had a few million sold and was number 2 meanwhile every COD game had 10+ million and only have 1 above...how bout some context for those rankings?
 

C4Lukins

Junior Member
Feb 27, 2006
14,179
0
0
Austin, TX
So maybe an interesting story.

I went to Best Buy last Tuesday to buy a couple of cd's.

This is sort of the main Dallas Texas Best Buy, so I assume it is somewhat an example of Sony, MS, and Nintendo marketing.

So ai grabbed the three cd's I was looking for, and made my way to the video game section. I just wanted to see if there was a playable next gen system and such. So I get there, and there is a giant display. The front half of it it is Ps4 and the reverse side is XBox One.

But all they had was fake boxes, and preorder slips for day one games for each console, but no way to order the console itself.

So I walk away, and check out the gaming section. I have most of the consoles and handhelds, plus I have an interest in marketing and such, so I want to check out the boxes and the amount of retail space involved, because I find it interesting.

So while I am looking over the games, two dudes from the section come over, and they are in sales and all that. This is my best recollition of the conversation.

"Hey can we help you....
No I am just browsing thank you...
What are you looking for?.....
Nothing in particular I am just checking out the games...
Well nobody just browses... Do you like first person shooters....
Yes I do, but I like all sorts of games and I am just checking stuff out...
Have you noticed that we have rearranged the gaming section.....
No I have not been here for a month, I did not notice the difference...
This is where second sales guy comes in.
Well we have put the 360 games over here, and we have consolidated all Sony games here, and you can find Nintendo games here and there.
Once again I said thanks I am browsing"

Oh the story goes on forever. I am board just telling it. But by the end of it I escaped these two dudes by telling them, "I am going to check out printers."

I lost two hundred words for some reason while typing this out. It got funny at some point I Sweary.

I swear it was a good story, but tapping this out on my IPAD wore me down.
 
Jun 15, 2007
21,774
0
0
Thanks for the info.

It's a shame. Wii U owners condemning their own console.
Or Nintendo did not effectively sell the game to Wii U owners let alone to people without the system to make people buy it. People should not expect Wii U owners to buy anything and everything just because it appears on the system. Interest in the game still has to be there just like all other systems. The system being starved for game doesn't mean personal taste, determination which games matter more due to budget, etc disappears.

Serious question. Why do people expect Wii U owners should be buying every game coming out? Where is that expectation coming from?

I will admit I ultimately couldn't pull the trigger on the game. While I liked what I saw and enjoyed the demo well enough I couldn't take the next step. The collecting of characters and the tone of the game just didn't grab me fully in the end. I was hoping a demo would change that but it didn't. It's why I was looking forward to Bayonetta 2 from the start. I knew I'd be okay buying that as that's more the style of game I like. Back in the day I bought Devil May Cry but Viewtiful Joe didn't do anything for me when it comes to the style of games Kamiya designs.

Disappointing the game didn't sell more but I'm not going to fault others for it not grabbing them. I will fault Nintendo for not perhaps doing a better job of selling it to people. Perhaps they could have and I'd be sitting here playing it but I don't feel they did. Kamiya could have designed a more accessible game as well but I don't believe he did.
 
Jun 2, 2013
2,810
0
0
USA
So maybe an interesting story.

I went to Best Buy last Tuesday to buy a couple of cd's.

This is sort of the main Dallas Texas Best Buy, so I assume it is somewhat an example of Sony, MS, and Nintendo marketing.

So ai grabbed the three cd's I was looking for, and made my way to the video game section. I just wanted to see if there was a playable next gen system and such. So I get there, and there is a giant display. The front half of it it is Ps4 and the reverse side is XBox One.

But all they had was fake boxes, and preorder slips for day one games for each console, but no way to order the console itself.

So I walk away, and check out the gaming section. I have most of the consoles and handhelds, plus I have an interest in marketing and such, so I want to check out the boxes and the amount of retail space involved, because I find it interesting.

So while I am looking over the games, two dudes from the section come over, and they are in sales and all that. This is my best recollition of the conversation.

"Hey can we help you....
No I am just browsing thank you...
What are you looking for?.....
Nothing in particular I am just checking out the games...
Well nobody just browses... Do you like first person shooters....
Yes I do, but I like all sorts of games and I am just checking stuff out...
Have you noticed that we have rearranged the gaming section.....
No I have not been here for a month, I did not notice the difference...
This is where second sales guy comes in.
Well we have put the 360 games over here, and we have consolidated all Sony games here, and you can find Nintendo games here and there.
Once again I said thanks I am browsing"

Oh the story goes on forever. I am board just telling it. But by the end of it I escaped these two dudes by telling them, "I am going to check out printers."

I swear it was a good story, but tapping this out on my IPAD wore me down.
I don't really think I understand the point of this story lol
 

axisofweevils

Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
Sep 12, 2011
7,370
0
0
UK
lego city undercover and pikmin 3 accomplished that. of course, they had television campaigns, which legends probably wouldn't have gotten.

at the very least, there's an argument to be made about the return on investment of the other versions, the extra time spent in development, and the money spent on the game's continued promotion, versus if they had just release a single sku and had the team move ontlo something more promising instead.
Exactly. Also, the fact that many Wii U owners that would have bought the game in Feb held off from buying the game now - either because they felt betrayed, or because there's a lot of other games to play at this time of year.
 
May 24, 2012
18,812
119
500
wait doesnt NPD still not have access to Walmart numbers, along with digital.

why exactly are their numbers...er they dont even release raw numbers anymore, so why are there rankings any more credible than vg-charts again?

and i heard Patrick Klepek and Alex talking about these NPD charts not actually giving raw numbers a few weeks ago on their AM show, so dont give me the runaround about theres different tiers of NPD access or whatever, those guys would have the highest tier access if there was one.

how is seeing "1.GTA" better than "GTA + these raw numbers we've acquired which are clearly higher than everything else and thus i can make my own conclusion that its a hell of a lot further than the game in number 2 and get a much more obvious and realistic chart of how the gaming world is, rather than wondering if the games are just a few hundred copies apart, which NDP leaves up in the air"

this is like the Major Nelson top 20 list on XBL, wow theres 4 COD games in the top 5, and Minecraft right at number 2 and some really dumb game like Doritos Crash Course down near 20, so thats great, but how bout some context, is Doritos getting a million players, or is XBL really that dead that a few hundred are playing it and its still the 20th most popular game, Minecraft only had a few million sold and was number 2 meanwhile every COD game had 10+ million and only have 1 above...how bout some context for those rankings?
1) NPD has the cooperation of 90% to 95% of all USA retailers to exchange realtime POS sales data, including Walmart's sales. They only estimate 5% - 10% of USA retailers.

2) NPD's only competition---VG_Chartz---only does a tiny bit of actual channel checking, performing the vast majority of their "data collection" through "algorithms" and "polling" (that constantly gets compared to NPD). These estimations can be way off from NPD at times---because it's essentially garbage data with little basis in actual, real-time sales.

3) The rankings exist only as NPD's self-promotion...essentially, the only reason they release anything publicly is to advertise their service. Once upon a time the company was much more receptive to giving out data, but management policy has made them extremely restrictive and aggressive towards raw number leaks.


Wii U owners aren't going to buy a game just because its on the Wii U. IMO it was a niche game that had too big of a budget.
I'm most worried about Nintendo's relationship with Platinum, honestly.

TW101:

First 2.5 weeks = ~19,000 in USA

First 2 weeks = 10,126 in Japan


That's 29,000 at launch in the two principal territories that are interested in the game...abysmal sales by every stretch of the word, and an overall net loss for the company. I know Bayonetta 2 is already well into production, but I worry about Nintendo getting cold feet and abruptly canceling the project and terminating the relationship, like they did with Star Fox 2, or the Kirby games on GameCube.
 
Jun 9, 2012
26,506
0
0
The only game I actually worry about being cancelled that is announced in FExSMT especially now that Sega owns them. You know I'm even more interested to see how something like Sonic sells on Wii U especially when it looks like the highest effort Sonic game in a long time. Also, I wonder if Nintendo will pull the trigger on a 250 BF bundle.
 
Oct 9, 2013
136
0
0
Jul 8, 2011
27,804
1
575
West Virginia
So maybe an interesting story.

I went to Best Buy last Tuesday to buy a couple of cd's.

This is sort of the main Dallas Texas Best Buy, so I assume it is somewhat an example of Sony, MS, and Nintendo marketing.

So ai grabbed the three cd's I was looking for, and made my way to the video game section. I just wanted to see if there was a playable next gen system and such. So I get there, and there is a giant display. The front half of it it is Ps4 and the reverse side is XBox One.

But all they had was fake boxes, and preorder slips for day one games for each console, but no way to order the console itself.

So I walk away, and check out the gaming section. I have most of the consoles and handhelds, plus I have an interest in marketing and such, so I want to check out the boxes and the amount of retail space involved, because I find it interesting.

So while I am looking over the games, two dudes from the section come over, and they are in sales and all that. This is my best recollition of the conversation.

"Hey can we help you....
No I am just browsing thank you...
What are you looking for?.....
Nothing in particular I am just checking out the games...
Well nobody just browses... Do you like first person shooters....
Yes I do, but I like all sorts of games and I am just checking stuff out...
Have you noticed that we have rearranged the gaming section.....
No I have not been here for a month, I did not notice the difference...
This is where second sales guy comes in.
Well we have put the 360 games over here, and we have consolidated all Sony games here, and you can find Nintendo games here and there.
Once again I said thanks I am browsing"

Oh the story goes on forever. I am board just telling it. But by the end of it I escaped these two dudes by telling them, "I am going to check out printers."

I lost two hundred words for some reason while typing this out. It got funny at some point I Sweary.

I swear it was a good story, but tapping this out on my IPAD wore me down.
For some reason, this really captivated me.
 
Jun 15, 2007
21,774
0
0
That's 29,000 at launch in the two principal territories that would be interested in the game. I know Bayonetta 2 is already well into production, but I worry about Nintendo getting cold feet and abruptly canceling the project and terminating the relationship, like they did with Star Fox 2, or the Kirby games on GameCube.
Bayonetta is more likely to be more accessible of the two games though. A single character vs multiple characters. It's premise might be an easier sell and could be easier to understand. It could also fill the itch that some have due to wanting another Metroid Prime or Prime-ish game. That is if Nintendo bothers to try and make that connection to directly target those games. Wonderful 101 was possibly to over the top for it's own good.

In some ways I think Nintendo has been pushing that Bayonetta 2 is the more important of the two games as well. Bayonetta 2 was announced in their E3 presentation remember. We only found about then P-100 during a tv interview segment. They've made more of a big deal about Bayonetta 2 overall. Which tells me they have more faith in that or at least it appears that way.
 
Nov 19, 2006
5,301
1,214
995
46
West Springfield, MA
www.youtube.com
I know Bayonetta 2 is already well into production, but I worry about Nintendo getting cold feet and abruptly canceling the project and terminating the relationship, like they did with Star Fox 2, or the Kirby games on GameCube.
That's a chilling thought. Given such poor sales/consumer reaction to TW101, I could see a scenario (though unlikely) where Nintendo wonders if the money spent on Bayonetta 2 is worthwhile.

There would be meltdowns of epic proportions if this scenario came to pass. Those who bought WiiU with the promise of Bayonetta 2 would be pissed if Nintendo reversed course and canned the project.
 
Jan 4, 2006
14,146
0
0
That's a chilling thought. Given such poor sales/consumer reaction to TW101, I could see a scenario (though unlikely) where Nintendo wonders if the money spent on Bayonetta 2 is worthwhile.

There would be meltdowns of epic proportions if this scenario came to pass. Those who bought WiiU with the promise of Bayonetta 2 would be pissed if Nintendo reversed course and canned the project.
It would be like the announcement thread except now there'd be 100% vitriol aimed at Nintendo instead of 66%.
 
Jun 18, 2013
1,372
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That reminds me of a comment on another forum that went "I didn't learn anything from what you posted, at all." Somebody else posted "No, that's not true. We learned that the person knows how to operate a keyboard, has functioning hands, a functioning brain, has access to the internet, knows the English language..." and all sorts of other meta stuff.

On topic, I didn't know about Brain Age selling so abysmally, makes me wonder if that means Nintendo will try other ways to get that audience in the future (even if that means changes to what the hardware is or does).

That's a chilling thought. Given such poor sales/consumer reaction to TW101, I could see a scenario (though unlikely) where Nintendo wonders if the money spent on Bayonetta 2 is worthwhile.

There would be meltdowns of epic proportions if this scenario came to pass. Those who bought WiiU with the promise of Bayonetta 2 would be pissed if Nintendo reversed course and canned the project.
If they can Bayonetta 2 despite the original being a tried and tested game with some name recognition, then I would worry about X (wasn't Xenoblade wayyyy more niche than Bayonetta?). Should they can X or incite another "Operation Rainfall" then I would have to reevaluate my opinion about Nintendo and my disappointment with the company would be irreperable. I did not buy the WiiU at launch but as soon as I played Xenoblade that is when I knew "I need access to Monolithsoft and that means owning another Nintendo console." If they intend to support the WiiU, it needs any game they can get their hands on. But can underperformance of games without "Mario" in the title be sustained for a whole generation I wonder, with the rising cost of development, it would pain me to see ambitious games not be rewarded saleswise just because they aren't traditional Nintendo IP's. And oddly enough, the rising cost of development, the chasing of AAA, is something Nintendo wanted to fight against, yet looks like the titles they dare to be ambitious with underperform.

Am I right to think that the handling of such an epically underperforming console as the WiiU is uncharted territory for Nintendo? I wonder how they handle this, interesting times ahead and a learning experience for us about what kind of company Nintendo will define itself to be.
 
Jan 25, 2012
22,624
0
0
I'm most worried about Nintendo's relationship with Platinum, honestly.

TW101:

First 2.5 weeks = ~19,000 in USA

First 2 weeks = 10,126 in Japan


That's 29,000 at launch in the two principal territories that are interested in the game...abysmal sales by every stretch of the word, and an overall net loss for the company. I know Bayonetta 2 is already well into production, but I worry about Nintendo getting cold feet and abruptly canceling the project and terminating the relationship, like they did with Star Fox 2, or the Kirby games on GameCube.
Nintendo is probably the one paying for it so I don't really see it getting canceled.
 
May 24, 2012
18,812
119
500
Nintendo is probably the one paying for it so I don't really see it getting canceled.
They've paid for plenty of 1st-party games they've canceled well into development...like Star Fox 2, Project H.A.M.M.E.R for Wii, or the traditional Kirby games on GameCube. There have been others throughout the years.

If Nintendo thinks the project will make the company a substantial loss at retail, they might cancel it to write-off the sunk costs and prevent themselves from digging a bigger hole.

Of course, they never have to announce this cancellation...they would just quietly never mention it again.
 
Jun 2, 2013
24,900
1
0
Bayonetta 2 isn't getting cancelled. Come on, people. Nintendo knows just as well as anyone that Platinum's titles don't do big numbers. They're working with them because their games add variety and value to the console. Nintendo's also probably hoping word of mouth will help The Wonderful 101 over time, as new Wii U owners pick up the system in the coming months and years. It's always going to be on the eShop, so it will never be hard to find.
 
Jun 9, 2012
26,506
0
0
Bayonetta 2 isn't getting cancelled. Come on, people. Nintendo knows just as well as anyone that Platinum's titles don't do big numbers. They're working with them because their games add variety and value to the console. Nintendo's also probably hoping word of mouth will help The Wonderful 101 over time, as new Wii U owners pick up the system in the coming months and years. It's always going to be on the eShop, so it will never be hard to find.
You can't honestly say with a straight face W101 would have been greenlit if these sales were known beforehand
 
Jan 25, 2012
22,624
0
0
They've paid for plenty of 1st-party games they've canceled well into development...like Star Fox 2, Project H.A.M.M.E.R for Wii, or the traditional Kirby games on GameCube. There have been others throughout the years.

If Nintendo thinks the project will make the company a substantial loss at retail, they might cancel it to write-off the sunk costs and prevent themselves from digging a bigger hole.

Of course, they never have to announce this cancellation...they would just quietly never mention it again.
I was mainly talking about Sega pulling the plug. I still doubt its going to get canceled but its possible.
 
Jul 31, 2007
24,446
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35
Kansas, USA
That's a nice WiiU increase. Now they just need to double that number, retain that as the baseline, and they might end somewhere between the GCN and PSP unit totals in America. Given a 5 year lifespan. That's if it wasn't just a one month bubble.

Still, better than I expected. But it has had quite a few good releases in the past two months.
 
Apr 22, 2007
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I'm most worried about Nintendo's relationship with Platinum, honestly.
They probably got good money for the exclusivity, and they are still independent. If they deem it hopeless after Bayonetta 2, they can still work on other platforms.

What really scares me is what can happen to Monolith if their game bombs.
 

vinnygambini

Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
Aug 7, 2013
8,548
0
0
They probably got good money for the exclusivity, and they are still independent. If they deem it hopeless after Bayonetta 2, they can still work on other platforms.

What really scares me is what can happen to Monolith if their game bombs.
Monolith is a first party studio :) No need to worry, you can rest easy now :p

On a side note, judging by the reception from GAF, it seems that X is one of their most eagerly anticipated titles of 2014. I'm looking forward for more information on that game.
 
Jul 9, 2007
12,655
0
0
It's a good thing that Nintendo made Platinum change the art direction for Wonderful 101 to be more appealing to a wider audience. Glad that paid off for them.

Honestly, that game was never going to sell. A niche genre, extremely divisive controls, complex mechanics, not unanimously critically acclaimed, not unanimously praised by gamers, 'meh' art direction, and a low install base.

It's weird how some people expect Wii U owners to buy any game just because it's exclusive to Wii U. People who own a Nintendo console are just like any other gamer. They'll buy a game if they want to play it and see value in it. Somehow, this gets mistaken on message boards that people should "support" a platform, but it doesn't work that way in the market.

same exact thing is going to happen for the wii ____ games on wii u, and kinect shit on xbone. mark my words.
That'd be pretty dire for Nintendo, considering 2.5 of their holiday titles are Wii ___ games.

Although it might be better for the long term if they just ripped the band-aid off quickly.

Monolith is a first party studio :) No need to worry, you can rest easy now :p
So is NST.
 
Mar 4, 2013
3,258
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That's a chilling thought. Given such poor sales/consumer reaction to TW101, I could see a scenario (though unlikely) where Nintendo wonders if the money spent on Bayonetta 2 is worthwhile.

There would be meltdowns of epic proportions if this scenario came to pass. Those who bought WiiU with the promise of Bayonetta 2 would be pissed if Nintendo reversed course and canned the project.
Its nintendos fault really. They never even advertised the game except stupid nintendo directs which are just a direct way to make your game bomb.
 
Jun 2, 2013
24,900
1
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You can't honestly say with a straight face W101 would have been greenlit if these sales were known beforehand
I don't think Nintendo expected the Wii U to be doing as poorly as it is now when this game was greenlit, which was at least two years ago. I doubt they blame Platinum for the low numbers, but I'd be surprised if Nintendo ever expected it to be a huge hit either. The game was practically ignored by Nintendo themselves at E3 2012, when the game was officially announced.
 
Jun 30, 2009
7,266
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0
Toronto
Well TW101 selling 20k is bad, atleast it doubled what need for speed sold.

It had a tacky Japanese style, convoluted controls, terrible marketing on the worst selling console in years. I don't know what people expected. Nintendo really should money hat games like dead rising 3 and titanfall, games that would add that westernized-shooter side to their library.

With that said, TW101 was awesome as fuck and I feel like I'm one of the priveleged few who will ever know that.
 
Jun 15, 2007
21,774
0
0
Monolith is a first party studio :) No need to worry, you can rest easy now :p

On a side note, judging by the reception from GAF, it seems that X is one of their most eagerly anticipated titles of 2014. I'm looking forward for more information on that game.
This. Not just gaf but a LOT of gaming outlets. X is perhaps THE one game outside of Smash Bros and now Super Mario 3D World that has people buzzing, both Wii U owners and non-Wii U owners. After Xenoblade doing okay even with how it was handled they won't make that mistake again. Also isn't Monolith Soft somewhat small. Nintendo likely aren't breaking the bank and they did some amazing stuff in Xenoblade Chronicles with the team size they had. I would say Monolith Soft is pretty safe.
 

C4Lukins

Junior Member
Feb 27, 2006
14,179
0
0
Austin, TX
It's a good thing that Nintendo made Platinum change the art direction for Wonderful 101 to be more appealing to a wider audience. Glad that paid off for them.

Honestly, that game was never going to sell. A niche genre, extremely divisive controls, complex mechanics, not unanimously critically acclaimed, not unanimously praised by gamers, 'meh' art direction, and a low install base.

It's weird how some people expect Wii U owners to buy any game just because it's exclusive to Wii U. People who own a Nintendo console are just like any other gamer. They'll buy a game if they want to play it and see value in it. Somehow, this gets mistaken on message boards that people should "support" a platform, but it doesn't work that way in the market.



That'd be pretty dire for Nintendo, considering 2.5 of their holiday titles are Wii ___ games.

Although it might be better for the long term if they just ripped the band-aid off quickly.



So is NST.

No people who own a Wii U are not like other gamers.

They have some memory of a Nintendo that made the best games, but also attracted the best third party games. Castlevania, Final Fantasy, and Mega Man and so on. But read the statement I am quoting in a super evil voice. Pretty fucking creepy right? As in, you would not leave a loved one alone with said person....
 
Feb 17, 2009
25,577
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0
They've paid for plenty of 1st-party games they've canceled well into development...like Star Fox 2, Project H.A.M.M.E.R for Wii, or the traditional Kirby games on GameCube. There have been others throughout the years.

If Nintendo thinks the project will make the company a substantial loss at retail, they might cancel it to write-off the sunk costs and prevent themselves from digging a bigger hole.

Of course, they never have to announce this cancellation...they would just quietly never mention it again.
Bayonetta would not go quietly into the night. Those cancellations are small time in comparison. If it were to happen we'd know.

Schadenfreude would also kill gaf
 
Nov 17, 2005
3,580
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I'm happy with my 2 copies of The Wonderful 101, still playing and enjoying it more than a month after release.

It's a damn shame that it didn't find more of an audience but that's the way things work sometimes. Sadly quality is no guarantee that something will sell.

Hopefully new Wii U owners looking for something fresh to play end up giving it a shot at some point. Do we know how Viewtiful Joe, Okami and God Hand sold in their first month on the market? Would be interesting to compare!