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[Kenneth Haight]

Nothing brings the heat on NeoGAF like TLOU discussions.

 

[yurinka]

TLOU 2 made more money than the first.

TLOU 1 was bundled for years to inflate sales. You can't ignore this fact.

This is not possible.

As far as we know TLOU reached 20M copies sold like 2 years and a half ago, while TLOU2 reached 10M copies a handful months ago.

And well, most popular games get bundled and you could always buy other bundle or the console alone. The bundles excuse doesn't make sense.

 

[TLZ]

The cycle for the Switch is starting to fade. Which is predictable since it is close to entering its seventh year. To be honest it is doing better than I would have expected.

Congratulations to Sony. Things are looking up.

Yes it's the natural cycle. I hope we see Nextgen Switch soon. Hoping for 2023.

 

[DForce]

This is not possible.

As far as we know TLOU reached 20M copies sold like 2 years and a half ago, while TLOU2 reached 10M copies a handful months ago.

And well, most popular games get bundled and you could always buy other bundle or the console alone. The bundles excuse doesn't make sense.

Then you would have to explain why it took The Last of Us Part II less than 2 weeks to make more revenue in the US than The Last of Us Remastered, which sold over 10 million copies.

It's not an excuse because it was literally bundled for years.

I showed the data above from Mat Piscatella and he specifically mentioned bundles being excluded from the list, which shows how much it inflated sales.


Yes, a lot of huge games are bundled, but they're not bundled at the same rate.

 

[Roufianos]

A game on sale for 70 dollars charting at #5 clearly shows the market is here for it though, lmao.

It's also not just PC. This game will be the go-to game for the TV show once it debuts. Sony is counting on that as well.

Saint's Row debuted even higher and only recently sold 1m.

Charting high and outselling a bunch of old games really doesn't mean much. If there was something to compare it too, e.g it outsold Splatoon, then maybe we could read more deeply into it.

 

[Nautilus]

Then you would have to explain why it took The Last of Us Part II less than 2 weeks to make more revenue in the US than The Last of Us Remastered, which sold over 10 million copies.

It's not an excuse because it was literally bundled for years.

I showed the data above from Mat Piscatella and he specifically mentioned bundles being excluded from the list, which shows how much it inflated sales.


Yes, a lot of huge games are bundled, but they're not bundled at the same rate.

Because TLOU 2 had more hype going for it? Thanks to the reputation the first game had. I bought the second game out of the goodwill I had thanks to the first game. Only later I learned of the game's many grave shortcommings.

And if you look at the game's performance, that's what happened. While the first game had a more consistant performance over the years, the second game had an explosive launch, and died down as the time went by, because people learned of the game's quality.

 

[DForce]

Because TLOU 2 had more hype going for it? Thanks to the reputation the first game had. I bought the second game out of the goodwill I had thanks to the first game. Only later I learned of the game's many grave shortcommings.

And if you look at the game's performance, that's what happened. While the first game had a more consistant performance over the years, the second game had an explosive launch, and died down as the time went by, because people learned of the game's quality.

The Last of Us was bundled more than 20 different times. Hype alone is going to overcome that when it's given away for free.

If Uncharted can account for over 3 million copies sold in the US alone from bundles then The Last of Us can do that too and more with bundles across the world.

 

[Chiggs]

You know, you start seeing people show up in these threads that really should be somewhere else--anywhere else--given the sales performance of TLOU, and yet here they are...desperately trying to salvage their image.

 

[feynoob]

Because TLOU 2 had more hype going for it? Thanks to the reputation the first game had. I bought the second game out of the goodwill I had thanks to the first game. Only later I learned of the game's many grave shortcommings.

And if you look at the game's performance, that's what happened. While the first game had a more consistant performance over the years, the second game had an explosive launch, and died down as the time went by, because people learned of the game's quality.

Lockdown.
2020 is an anomoly for gaming.

Gaming saw huge boost during that period. Its why the last of us 2 sold alot. People needed an escape.

The biggest example would be animal crossing, and switch shortages.

In total, Animal Crossing: New Horizons has officially sold more than 32.63 million copies as of March 31st, 2021 according to Nintendo’s most recent financial earnings release.

It wasnt only The last of us 2. Even Ghost of tsushima, and FF7R saw huge boost during that year.

We’re excited to announce a major milestone for FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE - more than 5 million copies of the game have been sold or shipped to date. Digital sales were particularly strong - in fact. it’s our highest selling digital game on the PlayStation platform ever.

https://www.square-enix-games.com/en_US/news/final-fantasy-vii-remake-shipments-sales

 

[Nautilus]

The Last of Us was bundled more than 20 different times. Hype alone is going to overcome that when it's given away for free.

If Uncharted can account for over 3 million copies sold in the US alone from bundles then The Last of Us can do that too and more with bundles across the world.

Then compare both games launch alligned, for gods sake. The "not being bundled" is not a universal excuse. Mario Kart 8 was bundled, but the game was an excellent seller way before that. So you have to question yourself: Why is Sony bundling Uncharted, Horizon, etc, but not TLOU 2, when the first game was and worked so well?

The fact is that the game wasn't bundled, and the sales are what they are.

 

[Nautilus]

Lockdown.
2020 is an anomoly for gaming.

Gaming saw huge boost during that period. Its why the last of us 2 sold alot. People needed an escape.

The biggest example would be animal crossing, and switch shortages.


It wasnt only The last of us 2. Even Ghost of tsushima, and FF7R saw huge boost during that year.


https://www.square-enix-games.com/en_US/news/final-fantasy-vii-remake-shipments-sales

Oh, that too. For certain. But I wont be dishonest here saying that TLOU 2 wouldn't have sold really well out of the gate. It would, its just that lockdown gave it a good boosr.

 

[feynoob]

Oh, that too. For certain. But I wont be dishonest here saying that TLOU 2 wouldn't have sold really well out of the gate. It would, its just that lockdown gave it a good boosr.

The game would have sold a good numbers. Its just that, more userbase active during the release month means more sale. Especially with how Part 2 was teased alot, backed by the first game. You would have to imagine the insane level of hype.

I mean, reddit was all about that game, when it launched.

 

[DForce]

Then compare both games launch alligned, for gods sake. The "not being bundled" is not a universal excuse. Mario Kart 8 was bundled, but the game was an excellent seller way before that. So you have to question yourself: Why is Sony bundling Uncharted, Horizon, etc, but not TLOU 2, when the first game was and worked so well?

The fact is that the game wasn't bundled, and the sales are what they are.

You're using Mario Kart 8 bundle when The Last of Us has been bundled way more.

It's not working, dude. It's a well known fact these games were heavily bundled and you're just in denial at this point.

Uncharted 4 bundles account for more than 3 million in the US alone?

Tell me again how bundles is "an excuse."

 

[yurinka]

Then you would have to explain why it took The Last of Us Part II less than 2 weeks to make more revenue in the US than The Last of Us Remastered, which sold over 10 million copies.

It's not an excuse because it was literally bundled for years.

I showed the data above from Mat Piscatella and he specifically mentioned bundles being excluded from the list, which shows how much it inflated sales.


Yes, a lot of huge games are bundled, but they're not bundled at the same rate.

I was talking about worldwide sales, not US sales when mentioning the 20M and 10M. And total sales including digital ones and bundles. It's a fact that TLOU sold twice units than TLOU2 until now, even if -as you correctly say- TLOU2 had a better launch window. But obviously TLOU2 has been less time in the market.

I think the reason TLOU2 got insane sales at launch is the hype built with these 20M copies sold by TLOU1, plus awards and love that people had for TLOU1, plus the confidence ND gives also due to Uncharted, mixed with the fact that TLOU2 (like Animal Crossing) was released when a ton of people were locked down at home due to covid, so were consuming more digital/home enternaiment than normally (a bump shared with everything else in home entertainment outside gaming).

If you're talking about US only yes, NPD numbers doesn't count the bundled copies. Bundled copies that are a lot in the case of top games like Uncharted games, both TLOU games, GoW, FIFA, CoD, all main Nintendo games and so on. Bundled copies not counted by NPD for their US sales, but counted by the companies like Sony or Nintendo when mentioning the worldwide sales of their games.

 

[lh032]

It's bizarre to read this thread.

Every time a region sells more PS5's than Series X's there are 10-15 of you guys who come in here with the same old GIF's, screaming and shouting how good the PS5 is.

The PS5 is always gonna sell more than Xbox, no shit. Why are you so excited?

 

[DForce]

I was talking about worldwide sales, not US sales when mentioning the 20M and 10M. And total sales including digital ones and bundles. It's a fact that TLOU sold twice units than TLOU2 until now, even if -as you correctly say- TLOU2 had a better launch window. But obviously TLOU2 has been less time in the market.

I think the reason TLOU2 got insane sales at launch is the hype built with these 20M copies sold, awards and love that people had for the first one, mixed with that TLOU2 was released when a ton of people were locked down at home due to covid so were consuming more digital enternaiment than normally.

If you're talking about US only yes, NPD numbers doesn't count the bundled copies.

He said The Last of Us sold twice as many copies as The Last of Us Part II when it's clearly not a fair comparison. Last of Us is going to have the edge because it was bundled for years and was on the market for longer.

I also said it made more money due to the fact that it was inflated by bundle sales similar to Uncharted 4.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Sure? Even MS admitted Halo Infinite was a financial dissapointment(so far at least). Halo being a dissapointment doesn't make TLOU 1 Remake sales better though.

That wasn't my point; I just wanted to see if you were willing to admit that, that's all.

Splatoon(without digital sales) is a very estabilished franchise in the US? More than TLOU? Thats true for Japan, but the US?

Well it's charted 4th on NPD without accounting for digital so yeah, I would presume it's a pretty well-established IP in the US. Whether it's more than TLOU doesn't matter; it's gotten a brand new entry, whereas TLOU Remake is exactly that: a remake.

One with no new content btw in the manner say FF VII Remake has been doing, so it's mainly new graphics and QoL features driving veterans of the original to pick up the new entry.

By okay I mean it did decent, but nothing out of the ordinary. You vould say that that's dissapointing for Sony's marquee franchise, but its not bad. At the show and the PC version is still comming.

"Decent" can run the gamut of virtually anything, though, so what is the point in even saying this? Where do you think it falls at sales-wise, then? As in actual numbers?

Because a remake(ish) of a 9-year old game debuting at #5 on NPD in a month with multiple new big releases from established IP that are actual new games (and not remakes/remasters), and doing so several spots ahead of the best-selling game of 2022 so far (Elden Ring) is a bit more than "decent" in my eyes, as well as those of many others I would assume.

The fact that this discussion is ALWAYS brought up, in this intensity, whenever TLOU 2 is brought up, is more than proof enough that the game is widely hated.(other than its sales not being better than the first, etc)

You should at least be a bit honest and admit that a majority of the hate towards TLOU2 comes from people who are at best gaming-adjacent, controversy ginned up by anti-SJW content creators and grifters who saw TLOU2 as a new attack vector to gin up their fanbases and speak out against some political agenda. Most of the remaining hate/controversy came from Xbox-centric content creators who casually tapped into the other vapid dislike for leaks of the game's story/plot and mainly did so to try killing off genuine hype for the game's release since it was Sony's biggest 1P release of 2020.

I mean most of their arguments for why Joel being killed so early boiled down to "butch lesbo-man kill cis white male BAD!". Virtually none of the arguments were more than culture war talking points, because most of the people attacking the game don't have an understanding for storytelling as a craft, they're ignorant on the subject. Just saying there was a lot of backlash to TLOU2 doesn't demonstrate the reality that a lot of the dislike came from console warriors, PCMR dolts and "anti-woke" culture war chuds who all stood to gain something by painting a narrative to make Sony's then-biggest game of that year look bad.

That type of backlash accounted for at least 80% of all the actual dislike towards the game, so the vast majority of it isn't valid.

 

[Luminoth-4545]

If PS5 win November NPD (by unit) then it will be something as Nintendo traditionally almost always win that month.

PS5 is in demand and will win the holiday months as well (October, November, December)

The power of Playstation is unimaginable. It' like an earthquake of power surging though veins.

I don't think so, PS5 has too many supply problems to sell 10 million in that period (worldwide). Nintendo Switch has sold over 10 million for the three previous holidays and with a big Pokemon game out it has a decent chance of selling another 10 million. Last Year PS5 only sold 3.9 million during the holiday months and I know supply is improving but they will still not produce enough systems to sell 10 million.

 

[Topher]

I don't think so, PS5 has too many supply problems to sell 10 million in that period (worldwide). Nintendo Switch has sold over 10 million for the three previous holidays and with a big Pokemon game out it has a decent chance of selling another 10 million. Last Year PS5 only sold 3.9 million during the holiday months and I know supply is improving but they will still not produce enough systems to sell 10 million.

Supply problems could be at an end in the US. Stock is up 400%. Outselling Nintendo is in Holidays is always tough though so we will see.

PS5 shipments are up by 400% in the US, just in time for God of War Ragnarök

The US is getting more PS5 console imports, just in time for God of War and the holiday season. Hopefully other regions will see the same increase in stock!

www.eurogamer.net

 

[Nautilus]

You're using Mario Kart 8 bundle when The Last of Us has been bundled way more.

It's not working, dude. It's a well known fact these games were heavily bundled and you're just in denial at this point.

Uncharted 4 bundles account for more than 3 million in the US alone?

Tell me again how bundles is "an excuse."

Its an excuse because you used it as if its the only reason that TLOU 1 sold more than TLOU 2, as if the bundles make up for half of the first game sales. And that is false simply because you can't prove it. So it makes far more reason to assume that TLOU 1 sold more because it is the better game.

Enough man. You are embarrasing yourself.

 

[DForce]

Its an excuse because you used it as if its the only reason that TLOU 1 sold more than TLOU 2, as if the bundles make up for half of the first game sales. And that is false simply because you can't prove it. So it makes far more reason to assume that TLOU 1 sold more because it is the better game.

Enough man. You are embarrasing yourself.

I said it made more money.

It's a fact.

Surpassed the original in dollar sales in the US

Performed better than TLOU in Europe. Bundle sales that are sold as MSRP doesn't make money from the game. You already embarrassed yourself and people are pointing it out.

 

[Topher]

And that is false simply because you can't prove it.

 

[Bragr]

Kirby with digital is outselling Gran Turismo 7. In the United States. What a success for Kirby, which has always sold relatively low.

What does this say about GT7 though? Mario Kart 8 might have sold more than it.

Lego Skywalker Saga has been a big hit. I suspect that with digital, Pokemon Legends would have been the second YTD, but this has to be the most popular Lego game right?

 

[Chiggs]

What does this say about GT7 though? Mario Kart 8 might have sold more than it.

I have no idea what the numbers for it are, but GT7 felt like a bit of a letdown to me. I haven't been a diehard GT/Polyphony digital fan for many years, and I love the Forza Horizon series, so take my comments with a grain of salt. That said, doesn't seem like there was a ton of hoopla around it, and there was a great deal of negative press around microtransactions.

 

[Sub_Level]

Last NPD before MW2 is present for the next 2 years kek

 

[SubZero_Wins]

satya nadella:“With our Xbox Series S and X consoles, we have taken share globally for two quarters in a row and we are the market leader this quarter among the next-gen consoles in the United States, Canada, UK, and Western Europe.”

 

[BlitzerRadic]

Its an excuse because you used it as if its the only reason that TLOU 1 sold more than TLOU 2, as if the bundles make up for half of the first game sales. And that is false simply because you can't prove it. So it makes far more reason to assume that TLOU 1 sold more because it is the better game.

Enough man. You are embarrasing yourself.

LOL this guy. How you gonna say that to someone after all the unprovable shit you posted in this thread???

 

[leo-j]

I don't think so, PS5 has too many supply problems to sell 10 million in that period (worldwide). Nintendo Switch has sold over 10 million for the three previous holidays and with a big Pokemon game out it has a decent chance of selling another 10 million. Last Year PS5 only sold 3.9 million during the holiday months and I know supply is improving but they will still not produce enough systems to sell 10 million.

Switch selling 10 million again would be crazy considering it is down YoY and tending below DS numbers significantly now. Ps5 doubling its sales should be a thing considering there are leaks suggesting Sony is trying to catch ps4 LTD sales and exceed them, so over 7 M is possible, which will sell more? Tbh will depend on ps5 stock, demand is there as it’s mostly sold out still WW.

 

[noise36]

In Australia the market is flooded with overpriced PS5 HZD bundles, in stock everywhere while stand alone consoles not so much, so that has got to explain the games sales success to some degree.

 

[reksveks]

Supply problems could be at an end in the US. Stock is up 400%. Outselling Nintendo is in Holidays is always tough though so we will see.

http://[URL]https://www.eurogamer.n...n-the-us-just-in-time-for-god-of-war-ragnarok

[/URL]

Think I am taking that figure with a pinch of salt, the 50% increase in July and August hasn't led to a 50% increase in NPD rev. Think there is another factor that we are ignoring.

Being a bit skeptical I know

 

[Ronin_7]

Think I am taking that figure with a pinch of salt, the 50% increase in July and August hasn't led to a 50% increase in NPD rev. Think there is another factor that we are ignoring.

Being a bit skeptical I know

Those numbers are very real but most of these Consoles didn't necessarily went for sale...

 

[reksveks]

Those numbers are very real but most of these Consoles didn't necessarily went for sale...

They can be real and still just one of two main shipping methods. Remember that airfreight became a bigger thing last holiday period.

Sony will definitely increase the average number of unit sold by at least 100%. 200% is a really a minimum.

On your comment, if they didn't go for sale, are they just in warehouses waiting for the holiday period? I can see that for September units but not so much for July and August. Or I am missing something else?

 

[EDMIX]

The game would have sold a good numbers. Its just that, more userbase active during the release month means more sale. Especially with how Part 2 was teased alot, backed by the first game. You would have to imagine the insane level of hype.

I mean, reddit was all about that game, when it launched.

You make many good points, but I don't know how many of us really are buying a game we would never buy during the Pandemic, for the most part...I did buy more games, but all the games I bought during that lock down was games I was always going to buy lol

So...maybe they bought it more sooner then they planned to or something, even Animal Crossing, I'm sure it got a post, but the series moves massive amounts, I think they boost is merely people buying a game they were always going to buy...sooner based on lockdown.

I do believe the hype would be bigger without that leak, but I think we all on Gaf might exaggerate how the hardcore behave, we seem to make very small blimps on those scales lol

 

[EDMIX]

Switch selling 10 million again would be crazy considering it is down YoY and tending below DS numbers significantly now.

Sure, but they are never getting back to those DS numbers, mobile gaming is so wide open now that competing against phones is damn near impossible. I fucking read some shit like COD mobile having 600 million downloads or something lol Of that, its like 78 million live at any time.

Thats just 1 game.

Its funny cause that isn't even the biggest, I nearly lost my shit looking up that data as some of those games have downloads in the deep, deep hundreds of millions if not a billion downloads or more and i never even heard of em.

They will never get that base, I think DS number are at a time before we see that massive serge in Phone games being a legit thing, once that base is gone to facebook games and mobile stuff, its unlikely we'll see that number return, so I think they are doing great with Switch based on how that market is right now.

 

[drganon]

Is this a new record for getting unbanned and then perma banned in the same day?

Even lognor didn't achieve that. Rest in piss Bernd, Phil will never love you.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Even lognor didn't achieve that. Rest in piss Bernd, Phil will never love you.

Plus his first perm was due to antisemitism. I'm surprised he lasted this long since his first perm.

 

[yazenov]

Even lognor didn't achieve that. Rest in piss Bernd, Phil will never love you.

I'm going to miss Lognor and Bernd, to be honest. Sure they were delusional but they were entertaining, to say the least.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I'm going to miss Lognor and Bernd, to be honest. Sure they were delusional but they were entertaining, to say the least.

People are saying Lognor is back with an alt.



Or at least it's someone providing the same type of entertainment.

 

[SLB1904]

What does this say about GT7 though?

The most successful GT in North America.

Now let's talk about Europe...

Spoiler

the salty realky fuck this dude fuses comparing a sim race with a platformer. I've seen it all

 

[John Wick]

I'm in agreement that the TLOU didn't need a remake. It's done now so but the price is a joke at $70. The game isn't worth it. There is simply not enough done to it to even warrant that kind of price and Sony fans should be calling Sony out on this. This is a bad precedent to set.
The most the remake should be is $40.

 

[Robbinhood]

PS5 would have sold 40 mil units in its first year if they had the stock. The thing was unparalleled in demand.

 

[SLB1904]

I'm in agreement that the TLOU didn't need a remake. It's done now so but the price is a joke at $70. The game isn't worth it. There is simply not enough done to it to even warrant that kind of price and Sony fans should be calling Sony out on this. This is a bad precedent to set.
The most the remake should be is $40.

Just wait for price drop. It won't take long I hope

 

[Topher]

Think I am taking that figure with a pinch of salt, the 50% increase in July and August hasn't led to a 50% increase in NPD rev. Think there is another factor that we are ignoring.

Being a bit skeptical I know

 

[Three]

They can be real and still just one of two main shipping methods. Remember that airfreight became a bigger thing last holiday period.

Sony will definitely increase the average number of unit sold by at least 100%. 200% is a really a minimum.

On your comment, if they didn't go for sale, are they just in warehouses waiting for the holiday period? I can see that for September units but not so much for July and August. Or I am missing something else?

Getting ready for black friday probably.

 

[Luminoth-4545]

Supply problems could be at an end in the US. Stock is up 400%. Outselling Nintendo is in Holidays is always tough though so we will see.

http://[URL]https://www.eurogamer.n...n-the-us-just-in-time-for-god-of-war-ragnarok

[/URL]

I heard in the news recently some analyst saying supply problems would continue until 2024 and of course if supply was not an issue then Sony would forecast more than 18 million for the fiscal year because with current demand it could sell much more than that.

 

[Pelta88]

Is this a new record for getting unbanned and then perma banned in the same day?

He was a totally disingenuous in everything he posted. I asked him not to quote or @ me before his porn ban. I'm not sorry he's gone.

 

[MasterCornholio]

He was a totally disingenuous in everything he posted. I asked him not to quote or @ me before his porn ban. I'm not sorry he's gone.

Did he post porn in the threads or through a DM?

 

[ShakenG]

Just got back from a holiday in Brisvegas AUS. Talking to a few stores and shipments have definitely picked up. Only asked because i watched a few people walking out with PS5's.

Said they were getting shipments in every week or on a much regular basis. This was eb games, didnt ask at JB.

No excuses to not have one now..

 

[Luminoth-4545]

Switch selling 10 million again would be crazy considering it is down YoY and tending below DS numbers significantly now. Ps5 doubling its sales should be a thing considering there are leaks suggesting Sony is trying to catch ps4 LTD sales and exceed them, so over 7 M is possible, which will sell more? Tbh will depend on ps5 stock, demand is there as it’s mostly sold out still WW.

Nintendo forecast 21 million for the year, to meet that target a 10 million holiday is a requirement. Throughout the Switch's life around 45% or sometimes more of it's yearly sales are during the holiday quarter.

 

[DenchDeckard]

man, I didn't enjoy Last of Us 2 story over the first but it was still an amazing playing game and although far too long imo it had some mind blowingly amazing sections. I can still see that and accept it even though I wrestle with some of what i feel are greater flaws. It's basically similar to uncharted 4 for me, the pacing is just all wrong and too long but it is what it is.

Still a "great" game just not a masterpiece FOR ME like uncharted 2 or LOU part 1. Which is strange because number 2 plays better than part one lol...so IM CONFUUUUUSED.

Kinda derailed, but amazing to see hardware levels improving so much now and hope we get an amazing Q4 sales period for all consoles.