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NT Analogue announces Super NT

Sir_Crocodile

Member
Mar 31, 2009
21,807
2
755
I'm confused about how 'cores' work on the Nt Mini, I mean if the chip has been programmed to completely mimic a real system, how do additions like the Master System and Collecovision work if the mini wasn't built around them to start with?
It has reprogrammable logic blocks, so you'd give it an implementation of the other console in a hardware description language, and providing it had the resources, it will configure itself based of that.

Writing the implementations is a serious amount of work, kevtris and jwdonal both took over a year to do their individual snes ones(dunno how long pgate1 took), even though there's tons of info on the snes these days.
 
Nov 24, 2012
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Am I the only one not into these new expensive retro consoles it seems ever 5 minutes. How many company's are making these at the moment? Each month we get a new one.
well if you're making this sort of statement, then you obviously have very little knowledge of what you are inveighing against.
 
Feb 28, 2008
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The wagon circling on terminology and emu vs sim vs FPGA vs whatever are only of limited value when it comes to generally informing folks on, in this case, what they are buying and the gist of how it works.

WHAT MATTERS is the platform ecosystem stirring anew as opposed to sinking into posterity, or worse, oblivion---a proper SNES FPGA is as critical a happening to keeping things live and lively as Higan.

But it doesn't stop there---the real action are things of the same stock and character as the MSU-1 endeavor, those which open new possibilities up for the lot of it and spur untold life into the homebrew scene and make the platform outright that much more effective, efficient, and tantalizing for future creative folks to come.

You don't want to settle for a time capsule---you want a bubble of time where things continue to proceed apace as they do.
 

electristan

Member
Sep 11, 2008
779
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Norway
... and bought.

Love my NT Mini, have spent more time than I ever thought I would playing Nes and Master System games.

So excited to jump up a generation, and it's all about transparent!
 

grim-tales

Member
Oct 20, 2012
2,403
1
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How could I get one of these to work in the UK? Wouldnt I need a transformer (different voltage) or adapter?
I'm confused about how my collection (PAL) would look on it as well, sounds like I have to rebuy everything which is annoying (to play NTSC/full screen).
 

Aeana

Member
Jul 10, 2006
42,062
2
0
How could I get one of these to work in the UK? Wouldnt I need a transformer (different voltage) or adapter?
I'm confused about how my collection (PAL) would look on it as well, sounds like I have to rebuy everything which is annoying.
It says:

Worldwide Compatibility [PSU: 100-240v, 50-60hz]

So it's designed to work with PAL games and UK power.
 

R_Deckard

Member
Nov 14, 2013
1,530
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well if you're making this sort of statement, then you obviously have very little knowledge of what you are inveighing against.
Hardly hostile, simply I seem to see these crop up on sites, adverts all the time. I get this is a better version but on the back of Nintendo mini this does not seem a big leap? guess not for me then.
 
Jan 4, 2009
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I can't fathom someone without any SNES games spending money on this and choosing to waste time with PAL carts. 50Hz versions were an abomination.
Well the question was posed earlier by another poster on if the console would somehow ‘improve’ the playback of PAL carts, which I found curious.

Yup, do not buy PAL at all.
I certainly don’t plan to. I don’t want anything too rare anyway on the list of stuff I want to acquire. I’m already finding US carts reasonably priced all over eBay with little fuss.
 

DOT DASH DOT

Member
Aug 26, 2015
1,648
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It has reprogrammable logic blocks, so you'd give it an implementation of the other console in a hardware description language, and providing it had the resources, it will configure itself based of that.

Writing the implementations is a serious amount of work, kevtris and jwdonal both took over a year to do their individual snes ones(dunno how long pgate1 took), even though there's tons of info on the snes these days.
So would say the Master System be as accurate as the Nes? Being that the 1000's of man hours they say it takes to program these chips for a single system like the Nes, but then these cores are adding other systems for free, which makes me wonder the quality of them.
 

thelatestmodel

Junior, please.
Dec 17, 2008
6,156
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So would say the Master System be as accurate as the Nes? Being that the 1000's of man hours they say it takes to program these chips for a single system like the Nes, but then these cores are adding other systems for free, which makes me wonder the quality of them.
Yes, eventually. Properly configured, the FPGA in this could replicate a Master System perfectly.
 

TSM

Member
Feb 15, 2014
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I preordered mine the other night. If kevtris continues to follow through releasing new cores this thing has a lot of potential.

I really hope they re-release the NT Mini in a cheaper version w/ plastic shell like this one.
This device may well encompass everything the NT Mini currently does. All you would potentially be missing out on is analog output. We won't know one way or another until February of next year though.

This device would seem to indicate a move towards a more mass market pricing on their hardware going forwards. I think it depends on how many units this moves. If it's only on par with the NT Mini I could see them moving back to a larger margin strategy with fewer higher priced units.
 

CamKeys

Neo Member
Feb 16, 2017
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This device may well encompass everything the NT Mini currently does. All you would potentially be missing out on is analog output. We won't know one way or another until February of next year though.
Was the NT mini able to load other cores with its jailbroken firmware?
 

CamKeys

Neo Member
Feb 16, 2017
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Hoo boy. Yes, almost every 8-bit system from Master System, Colecovision all the way to Game Boy and Game Boy Color! All work flawlessly loading roms from SD card.
So we are predicting then that the Super NT mini is capable of those same 8-bit games and hopefully all 16 bit?

Is 32 bit out of the question? Not sure how all the tech works
 
So we are predicting then that the Super NT mini is capable of those same 8-bit games and hopefully all 16 bit?

Is 32 bit out of the question? Not sure how all the tech works
32-bits isn't out of the question since we have 68020 and soon 68030 cores existing (the Amiga 1200 cores are super advanced)

But don't count on PSOne or Saturn any time soon. We'll need bigger and beefier fpgas for that and years of work
 

TSM

Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,566
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So we are predicting then that the Super NT mini is capable of those same 8-bit games and hopefully all 16 bit?

Is 32 bit out of the question? Not sure how all the tech works
Capable of? Absolutely. But the question is what restrictions Analogue has placed on kevtris during his contract work with them. It may be that Analogue has plans for further 16 bit systems. Kevtris has always planned on creating his Zimba 3000 device to handle all these retro systems, so Analogue precluding some support for their hardware may not be that big a deal to him. If that's the case we will have to wait for the Zimba 3000 for stuff like the Neo Geo.

On the other hand kevtris seems to be the only known person that is capable of turning something like this around in a reasonable time frame, so I'd imagine he had a lot of leverage.
 

SmiteOfHand

Member
May 28, 2014
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Capable of? Absolutely. But the question is what restrictions Analogue has placed on kevtris during his contract work with them. It may be that Analogue has plans for further 16 bit systems.
I've seen this floating around but Analogue gives every impression that their interests are in selling hardware with fancy finish and detail. The R&D for SNES is done at this point, that cost is sunk.

If they do the same and put out a Genesis/MD box allowing kevtris to put out the SNES core for it (and vice versa) only benefits their ecosystem and audience. Their concerns would be more around stuff like securing a solid controller and making it a complete package. They don't seem like the sort of company that wants to produce, stock, ship, and support dozens of different SKUs per core. Who knows what their plans are though.

And.. again.. they put a freaking SD card slot in the thing. I'm going to side on benefit of the doubt until we know more.
 
The SD-Card has more to do with firmware updates than anything

I'm positive the core will be worked on and improved over time. Still I hope it's jailbroken and the sd2snes special chips cores are added (with better support since that fpga has way more room/memory than the one in the SD2SNES).

If that actually happens, it makes this solution cheaper than the SD2Snes which is prety crazy
 

SmiteOfHand

Member
May 28, 2014
2,038
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The SD-Card has more to do with firmware updates than anything
It is powered over USB. If they really wanted to be jerks about it they could've used that for firmware and force it to be hacked like NES/SNES mini.

Not that we are in disagreement, I understand. Just that they've given very little reason for doubt at this juncture.
 

TSM

Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,566
0
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I've seen this floating around but Analogue gives every impression that their interests are in selling hardware with fancy finish and detail. The R&D for SNES is done at this point, that cost is sunk.

If they do the same and put out a Genesis/MD box allowing kevtris to put out the SNES core for it (and vice versa) only benefits their ecosystem and audience. Their concerns would be more around stuff like securing a solid controller and making it a complete package. They don't seem like the sort of company that wants to produce, stock, ship, and support dozens of different SKUs per core. Who knows what their plans are though.

And.. again.. they put a freaking SD card slot in the thing. I'm going to side on benefit of the doubt until we know more.
I'm talking about kevtris releasing PCE, Mega Drive and Neo Geo for the Super NT like he did 8 bit cores for the NT Mini. It may be that he has agreed not to. Then again it may be that he does release them. He won't comment at this point. We'll find out in February.
 

shoryukens

Member
Aug 14, 2014
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300
50$ in shipping and the extra 50 for the controller. 300$ for the whole thing, and I don't even have any cartridges lol. I'm tempted but I think I'll wait things out for more details before pre ordering. Hopefully they'll still have them available.
 

cartman414

Member
May 3, 2006
9,554
231
1,345
I wonder if, just for the heck of it, kevtris will ever do the prototype SNES-CD, in case there's enough of a homebrew scene.
 

Meesh

Member
Jan 6, 2007
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Seriously, SuperNT is what I've always wanted, Super Famicom style is best 😊 but I need a few more games to round out my collection....
I've got;

Final Fantasy III
Final Fantasy II
Chrono Trigger
Secret of Mana
Super Mario
Turtles in Time
Super Street Fighter II

Breath of Fire II retranslation
Final Fantasy II Unprecedented Crisis

Actually I need tons of games!!! Lol
 

SpotAnime

Member
Oct 11, 2006
1,613
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How is the price they are selling the SN30s a "discount"? 39.99 vs $25 from Amazon.

And I wish this thing was announced like four months ago. See, I never owned an SNES, I was a Genny kid. But the local gaming convention (TMG) already happened this summer so I missed the chance to pick up a few cheap SNES games, and I just spent $80 on the SNES Mini. And a bummer this isn't going to have analog outputs, I'd love to hook this up to my CRT.

Still, I preordered two SN30 controllers for the Mini which will work on the Super NT, so I already made that investment. I may wait it out for reviews and pick up later. Still, I am super supportive of what Analogue is putting out.
 

CamKeys

Neo Member
Feb 16, 2017
12
0
0
How is the price they are selling the SN30s a "discount"? 39.99 vs $25 from Amazon.

And I wish this thing was announced like four months ago. See, I never owned an SNES, I was a Genny kid. But the local gaming convention (TMG) already happened this summer so I missed the chance to pick up a few cheap SNES games, and I just spent $80 on the SNES Mini. And a bummer this isn't going to have analog outputs, I'd love to hook this up to my CRT.

Still, I preordered two SN30 controllers for the Mini which will work on the Super NT, so I already made that investment. I may wait it out for reviews and pick up later. Still, I am super supportive of what Analogue is putting out.
I think the 39.99 ones are an updated version. but correct me if im wrong. They are on amazon for 39.99 too:

pre-order for the 8bitdo that goes with this is up on Amazon (saw via Wario64 tweet).

http://amzn.to/2yuonyj
http://amzn.to/2yuoRVn
http://amzn.to/2yQ6yLo
http://amzn.to/2zezhpD

I'm not a fan of the NES30 dpad, but I pre-ordered one, hoping they improved the dpad a bit. We should know when the SNES classic version of these come out in Dec.
 

SmiteOfHand

Member
May 28, 2014
2,038
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360
Thanks for the reminder. Picked up two controllers.. though I am tempted to get the full set because I have the self control of a nine year old.
 

OverQ

Member
Dec 12, 2013
72
0
360
Is there such a thing as a Wii Classic Controller > SNES adapter? I can't find one. It would be nice to use some fresh Club Nintendo SNES/SNES mini controllers with this.
 

OverQ

Member
Dec 12, 2013
72
0
360
I'm still undecided between black and SFC. The black immediately appealed to me but the SFC is calling out to my nostalgic side! I think that image may seal it for black. Regardless I'm still planning to use SFC design controllers if someone comes up with a Wii Clasic Controller adapter.
 

Eiji

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Jul 5, 2005
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The colour choice would be easier for me if I knew it was going to support other cores/consoles such as MegaDrive & Neo Geo.

I'd go for black then.
 

maniac-kun

Member
Sep 14, 2006
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Super intrigued to buy one :D Its like the Ultimate SNES. Maybe its even hackable in the future? The NES NT runs a ton of other FPGA stuff so there is a lot of potential there.

What are the chances that they will build a N64 NT in the next couple of years? Is this even possible?
 

mattysaurus

Member
Nov 3, 2016
107
0
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Podunk, USA
Super intrigued to buy one :D Its like the Ultimate SNES. Maybe its even hackable in the future? The NES NT runs a ton of other FPGA stuff so there is a lot of potential there.

What are the chances that they will build a N64 NT in the next couple of years? Is this even possible?
I imagine kevtris will release a hackable firmware like with the nt, but I have a feeling it won’t support NES or systems they haven’t already released. Analogue made it pretty clear in an interview they weren’t stopping with the snes; I wouldn’t be surprised if they tackled the Genesis next. FPGA’s probably aren’t powerful enough to tackle stuff like 64, PS1, and Neo Geo at the moment, but I’m sure they’ll get there soon enough. As for the adding the NES core, it’s possible, but it’d be cannabalizing their own product.
 

JP

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Mar 7, 2010
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Do people think that there are going to be issues getting hold of these after launch?

The more I think about it the more I want one but being able to store games on the SD card would tip the balance for me and I can't really afford to spend money on something like this at the moment. It's probably going to be better waiting until the summer for me but I really don't want to risk the chance of them going out of stock. I'd happily pre-order today but I'm going to have things that I really need to spend money over the next few months.

I know the Nt mini is still available but let's be honest, that has far more of a premium price than this does.
 

JP

Member
Mar 7, 2010
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I've found a new video which illustrates the pseudo-hi-res blending option for dealing with transparencies in games.

Polygon said:
The interface also hints at some new features on the Super NT that did not appear on the earlier NT mini, including a gamma boost feature and what Analogue is calling “pseudo-hi-res blending.” The gamma boost feature seeks to address the screen dimming when emulators implement scanlines. While CRT TVs benefited from the brightness of the display, helping to bleed over the interlacing lines, scanlines can create a sort of mask effect on a crisp HDTV, dimming the overall image instead of sharpening the pixel clarity.

The pseudo-hi-res blending feature is similarly designed to more faithfully match the original pixel artist’s intent when viewed on a CRT. “On the original Super Nintendo, in certain games, the way that the image was generated on a CRT relied on the technology of the CRT to manipulate the image in a way that generated it on screen the way you would see it,” Taber explained. “When you remove the CRT from the picture — no pun intended — it doesn’t show up the same way.

“So, for example, in a couple Kirby games, clouds in all the levels show up not as fully populated, dense, moving pixel clouds, but they show up as just lines. If you run these games on an emulator, they all generate and appear on your HDTV that way. So what we did, we are literally simulating the way that a CRT blends those pixels, so it generates on screen identically the way it does on a CRT. All of these features, as always, come disabled and you can enable or disable them, they’re not forced.”
Super NT pseudo-hires blending demo in Kirby (Polygon)

I really can't wait to get mine, they're expected to launch next month some time although I ordered pretty late so I'd be surprised if I received mine before March.
 
Nov 1, 2017
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I've found a new video which illustrates the pseudo-hi-res blending option for dealing with transparencies in games.

Super NT pseudo-hires blending demo in Kirby (Polygon)

I really can't wait to get mine, they're expected to launch next month some time although I ordered pretty late so I'd be surprised if I received mine before March.
That looks fantastic. I was intending to make only one new console purchase this year but I think that I might have to go back on that for the Super NT. What colour did you go for?

In reference to the Polygon article: It's interesting that the original developers of Kirby the titles chose to use the jailbar method of transparency for the clouds on the SNES (presumably for performance reasons?). A lot of Genesis/Megadrive games used similar methods to create a transparency effect on CRT TVs as the hardware didn't support it natively. It's great that the effect will now be more faithfully represented on modern TVs.
 

JP

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Mar 7, 2010
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Koala Driving a Ferrari Koala Driving a Ferrari

I ended up going for the Black version. It was always going to be either that version or the UK/Japanese version, the US colours are OK but I really don't like the transparent version.

As I expected though, I do keep changing my mind between the two versions that I really liked.

 
Nov 1, 2017
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JP JP Nice one! The black looks fantastic. I'm a sucker for nostalgia, so I'd probably go for the PAL SNES one but it'd be a tough call.

I'm really looking forward to seeing the final manufactured products. When you get yours, you should post some pics of it in the monthly Pick Up thread.