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[Shubh_C63]

so maybe there is hope, because I genuinely thought they just won't give a shit and people will buy what they want to sell anyway.

 

[Haint]

Yeah this is the important bit here. As far as I’m concerned the can’t launch the card without a price drop now.

Should probably lower the price on the big 4080 too. The 4090 is currently the one that makes the most sense and that’s absurd no matter how you look at it.

I expect they'll feel pressured to make it "$699" when they relabel it 4070, but yeah that makes the 4080 16G even less appealing than it already is, and it's already in the dirt. Dropping the 16G several hundred dollars in a month or two would certainly piss off the few people who just paid $1200+ for one. They've really fucked their own ass here, these cards are never going to sell at these prices regardless of what they call them, and the massive price drops required to make them appealing will burn a shit ton of bridges with their best customers who ran out and bought them in the launch window.

so maybe there is hope, because I genuinely thought they just won't give a shit and people will buy what they want to sell anyway.

As they pointed out in this blog post, seeing people line up around the block for $2000 cards that sold out within minutes, they've realized they make far more profit and revenue on 4090's so there's no need to gouge people on the low end shit. Making the 4090 the only enthusiast card available, they have (and will) sell dozens of times the volume Titan and XX90 Cards sold in the past. The 4090 itself will ultimately probably make it to like 3-5% marketshare in the Steam survey (3080, 3080Ti, and 3090's currently combine to be in that range), which is pretty much unthinkable for a $1600+ card. It's a money printer, they make more from a single 4090 than they'd make selling 20 $400/$500 4060/4070's. And it'll remain untouchable cause AMD won't even have anything playing in the same ballpark.

 

[Soltype]

What? Lol their raster perf is same as nvidia.

Same raster , but everything else is worse.If AMD was trouncing NV in raster, you could at least see where they spent their time, but they're giving us comparable raster and are missing a lot of stuff compared to NV.It just feels halfhearted sometimes.I want AMD to force NV into changing their ways, but I don't see it happening.

 

[Fess]

I expect they'll feel pressured to make it "$699" when they relabel it 4070, but yeah that makes the 4080 16G even less appealing than it already is, and it's already in the dirt. Dropping the 16G several hundred dollars in a month or two would certainly piss off the few people who just paid $1200+ for one. They've really fucked their own ass here, these cards are never going to sell at these prices regardless of what they call them, and the massive price drops required to make them appealing will burn a shit ton of bridges with their best customers who ran out and bought them in the launch window.



As they pointed out in this blog post, seeing people line up around the block for $2000 cards that sold out within minutes, they've realized they make far more profit and revenue on 4090's so there's no need to gouge people on the low end shit. Making the 4090 the only enthusiast card available, they have (and will) sell dozens of times the volume Titan and XX90 Cards sold in the past. The 4090 itself will ultimately probably make it to like 3-5% marketshare in the Steam survey (3080, 3080Ti, and 3090's currently combine to be in that range), which is pretty much unthinkable for a $1600+ card. It's a money printer, they make more from a single 4090 than they'd make selling 20 $400/$500 4060/4070's. And it'll remain untouchable cause AMD won't even have anything playing in the same ballpark.

As said before I wouldn’t underestimate AMD, I think they’ll be up there or even ahead when it comes to non-RT.

Problem is, I doubt they’ll go low enough pricewise that it’ll change anything. If you add it all up on a new highend PC setup you’ll end up above $3k total, above €4K in Euroland.
Would 300 less for a AMD card sway the market?
Doubtful.

The reality is that Nvidia is like Playstation, they have insane mindshare and the market will buy their stuff no matter what. Only way it’ll change is if there is a train-wreck malfunction scenario. Youtubers has been trying to exaggerate every concern to kick Nvidia in the nuts, with the power draw concern and size etc, but in the end the truth turned out to be kinda meh. They draw less power than reported, run relatively cool, is less noisy than past gen, unless you go for some extreme card the size is doable too, and even with the high price regular gamers are lining up to buy what is essentially a Titan.

 

[TheKratos]

So much anger towards a company and its consumers. Criticism is fine but throwing all their consumers under a label "fanboys who bend over hurr durr" is quite sad. Don't like their product, don't buy it.

 

[playsaves3]

This is what im hoping for.
AMD announce a 4080'16G competitor at ~750 dollars......Nvidia will have to cave and reduce the price.
Cuz even with RT and ML benefits the price differential alone would make the 7800XT a much much better buy.

Its unfortunate the AMD event is before the launch of the 4080'16G but I think enough data on it has already leaked AMD have a good gauge of how powerful it is.
It would have been a real death blow if AMD could have benchmarks of the 7800XT that costs ~750 beating the 1200 dollar RTX 4080.

I’m also hoping the 7900 xt is just 1k flat

 

[DenchDeckard]

Let's be honest peeps....they haven't done this for us, they haven't listened.....they just know damn well where the benchmarks are going to sit and have discussed what the backlash would be and decided it's nit worth it. This thing must be dookie compared to what reviewers and ourselves expect of a 4080. They will have got early feedback and pulled the plug. Wh8ch is a shame because I'd love NVIDIA to receive more humble pie.

 

[Black_Stride]

You're arguing about inflation. A completely retarded argument, since what the RTX 4080 cost isn't going to be at parity with inflation. And besides that the 80 series has historically been in the $600 range for YEARS. Explain that.

But you felt the need to use inflation as the basis of your argument, so how would it be any different if I argue that the PS5 should have cost $750 (based off how much the PS3 cost 16 years ago) according to your flawed logic.

Why did I have to explain that to you?

Not an argument pricing the 4080'16G at 800MSRP both accounts for inflation and increased production costs.
Would I like it at 500 like the GTX 580....sure but that aint gonna happen.

And to answer why xx80s were pretty stagnant price wise for a while. (between 500 and 650).

Well remember that Nvidia used to release a new generation basically every year, the inflation rate year on year between ~2010 and 2016 was something like ~1.5% and node shrinks actually came with cost benefits, pretty much all the xx80s are reasonably priced compared to each other.

2018 with Turing was when the xx80 actually climbed in price.
With the 2080 being about 50 dollars "too expensive" at 700 dollars.
Nvidia "kinda" rectified this with the launch of the Supers.

This set a precedent for RTX, they pimped us that its due to all the actual new tech in the chip.(I believe them OptiX is some next level shit).
The 3080 has no new tech and inflation was some 3% so no real reason to really increase the price....thus the RTX 3080 was 700.
2020 to 2022 cumulative inflation rate was some 14%, so I surmised a good price for the 4080 would be 800 dollars.

All my points are based on historical data?

Not sure why it sounds supposedly "retarded" to you?
You havent given any counterpoints other than to call me retarded and show me the price of the PS3?

 

[Dr.D00p]

This thing won't even make a decent 4070, 192bit bus for $900? Fuck off.

This level of spec should be on the 3060Ti for $500 in 2023.

 

[winjer]

GN spoke to several AIBs and they said that nvidia is also planning to lower the price of the RTX 4070.
I love this quote:

will also be reducing the price, with one partner company commentating anonymously that quote "they're not that stupid" when we asked if they'd keep the same price, speaking about Nvidia

 

[Dr.D00p]

GN spoke to several AIBs and they said that nvidia is also planning to lower the price of the RTX 4070.

They'll lower it to $699, giving them room to release a 3070Ti for $800 later next year...probably

 

[Midn1ght]

So we'll likely have a 4070 at 899.99€ (Maybe 799.99€) which will put the 4060 at what, 599.99€?
A MID RANGE CARD FOR 599.99 EUROS (699.99 -749.99 for AIB)!

Nvidia (and authorized retailers who currently ask 2499.99€ for the 4090) can fuck right off honestly.

Hopefully the downtrend continues.

 

[jigglet]

4080 isn't needed anyway. A friend of mine bough the 2080ti which he told me should future proof him against any hardware for the next 5 years.

 

[GymWolf]

So we'll likely have a 4070 at 899.99€ (Maybe 799.99€) which will put the 4060 at what, 599.99€?
A MID RANGE CARD FOR 599.99 EUROS (699.99 -749.99 for AIB)!

Nvidia (and authorized retailers who currently ask 2499.99€ for the 4090) can fuck right off honestly.

Hopefully the downtrend continues.

Jesus the europeans got fucked the most during this shitshow...


How in the fucking fuck do you go from 1600 dollars to 2500 euros?

 

[Dr.D00p]

How in the fucking fuck do you go from 1600 dollars to 2500 euros?

When you're the reserve currency, you can fuck up your economy as much as you want while everyone else has to pick up the tab...

 

[Black_Stride]

They'll lower it to $699, giving them room to release a 3070Ti for $800 later next year...probably

Theres no more space on the AD104 for a 4070Ti.
Chances are they go back to the original plan:

If they still have the large AD104s maybe the make the 7680 a 4070Ti and the 7168 the 4070.

 

[Dr.D00p]

Theres no more space on the AD104 for a 4070Ti.

Well whatever they do the only card in the 40xx range that interests me at all will be the inevitable 4080Ti.

There is simply too big a gap between the 4080 & 4090 for it to go unfilled.

 

[Midn1ght]

Jesus the europeans got fucked the most during this shitshow...


How in the fucking fuck do you go from 1600 dollars to 2500 euros?

Fucking ridiculous. I also used to buy from Megekko store in NL and look at this shit:

 

[Black_Stride]

Well whatever they do the only card in the 40xx range that interests me at all will be the inevitable 4080Ti.

There is simply too big a gap between the 4080 & 4090 for it to go unfilled.

Yup the AD102 4080 Super/Ti will probably be a bang for buck king.
Depending on my Christmas bonus looks, I might jump on the 4090 or sit and wait for the 20G.
Its just under 2000 CUDA cores shy of a 4090 so in gaming the performance difference will be really close, itll like boost higher than the 4090 so the perf difference outside of synthetics and rendering will like not even be noticeable.........but the price difference is likely going to make it so much more worthwhile than either the 4080 or 4090.

 

[GymWolf]

Yup the AD102 4080 Super/Ti will probably be a bang for buck king.
Depending on my Christmas bonus looks, I might jump on the 4090 or sit and wait for the 20G.
Its just under 2000 CUDA cores shy of a 4090 so in gaming the performance difference will be really close, itll like boost higher than the 4090 so the perf difference outside of synthetics and rendering will like not even be noticeable.........but the price difference is likely going to make it so much more worthwhile than either the 4080 or 4090.

Do we know when they are gonna release this 4080ti? And what price do you expect? 1400 dollars?

 

[Black_Stride]

Do we know when they are gonna release this 4080ti? And what price do you expect? 1400 dollars?

Nvidia are currently going through some shit.
No idea.

Best case and my thinking is.
The 4070'12G gets "announced" with the new price and ready to ship at CES'23.
(Praying for a 4080'16G price drop at or before that)


Then at Spring GTC'23 Nvidia announce the 4080Ti and 4090Ti with a release date sometime mid 2023.
The 4080'16G is basically forced to get a price cut and the 4080Ti comes in at ~1300 dollars.

But thats just my wishful thinking as Nvidia have pretty much stopped doing this.
They used to always release Ti models some time after base chips and whenever the Ti came out the base chips got price cuts.

 

[nightmare-slain]

So we'll likely have a 4070 at 899.99€ (Maybe 799.99€) which will put the 4060 at what, 599.99€?
A MID RANGE CARD FOR 599.99 EUROS (699.99 -749.99 for AIB)!

Nvidia (and authorized retailers who currently ask 2499.99€ for the 4090) can fuck right off honestly.

Hopefully the downtrend continues.

the last time they were at that price was around July-August 2020. the 3000 cards came out September 2020. they went on to peak at 326 in November 2021. At that point they had just released the 3060. Since then it's been all downhill. The latter 3000 cards such as the 3080 12GB, 3050, 3060 Ti, 3090 Ti didn't do much to help them.

The 4000 announcement and the 4090 have so far done nothing for Nvidia. Their price has gone from 131 to 112 since they announced 4000 cards lol.

 

[adamosmaki]

How expensive do they plan on making the 4070 is the real question. They can fuck right off if they come in over $600.

well knowing nvidia they will relaunch the 4070 12gb shave 100 off the MSRP sell it for 800 and tell us is a great deal
I really hope AMD can deliver with 7xxx series. They dont need to outbest rtx 4090 but hopefully they will give us something close to RTX 4080 for 700-800

 

[GymWolf]

I'm gonna tattoo the amd logo on my butt if these fuckers manage to save us all on nov 3rd...

 

[DenchDeckard]

The 4090 for anything above 1699 is absolute madness.

I honestly don't think these current prices will hold and I'm happy to wait now and see for my own personal card.

I'll pick up a 4090 when one becomes available.

 

[Black_Stride]

I'm gonna tattoo the amd logo on my butt if these fuckers manage to save us all on nov 3rd...

Lol
Im going to hold you to that!

 

[Skifi28]

So we'll likely have a 4070 at 899.99€ (Maybe 799.99€) which will put the 4060 at what, 599.99€?
A MID RANGE CARD FOR 599.99 EUROS (699.99 -749.99 for AIB)!

I've been told the x60 series is low end these days and the x70-x80 is mid range now. Get on with the times.

 

[Rickyiez]

I’m glad NVidia decided to take the L and end this rebranded 4070 madness.

I also loathe how they launch their next gen cards with cut down chips. Of course they do this for future ‘Ti’ or Super iterations. I understand. That doesn’t mean we have to like the idea of paying such sums for 4080s/4090s with 10% - 20% of the die disabled. The only reason this is viable is due to lack of competition.

AMD made the mistake with RDNA2 of not competing against the full NVidia equivalent chips. This left NVidia able to ruin AMDs RDNA2 launch straight away with their ‘latest’ Super 3000 series cards. AMD have to be smarter with RDNA3 and get it right on the performance side. If they release full chips they must compete with the full die on the NVidia side of things.

They just have to be smart with the pricing. Who cares about performance crown, if AMD can undercut Nvidia with a 7900xt that performs between 4080 16gb and 4090, but priced at $899, it will sell like hot cake.

Unfortunately they won't. RDNA2 failed because each of their competing cards are sold higher or as expensive as its counterpart in retail.

 

[Dr.D00p]

Do we know when they are gonna release this 4080ti? And what price do you expect? 1400 dollars?

The timings depend just as much on what AMD bring to the table, as it does Nvidia.

If AMD can release competitive cards for less (not by much) money and get good reviews, build positive word of mouth, Nvidia will react very quickly with price adjustments & release timings.

AMD needs to grab mind share in the GPU market in the same way they did in the CPU space with Ryzen.

 

[FStubbs]

I think part of the reason they canceled it is because the 7800xt would've walked all over the "4080" 12 gb.

Actually this is probably it. Also a slim chance Apple's next chip could as well.

 

[Mr Wonderstuff]

The timings depend just as much on what AMD bring to the table, as it does Nvidia.

If AMD can release competitive cards for less (not by much) money and get good reviews, build positive word of mouth, Nvidia will react very quickly with price adjustments & release timings.

AMD needs to grab mind share in the GPU market in the same way they did in the CPU space with Ryzen.

Yea...it's an opportunity AMD don't want to miss. They may never get a better chance.

 

[winjer]

AMD really needs to increase market share and this is the best opportunity they got in a long time.
But they have to price their cards right and avoid screwing up like they did with Zen4 and their motherboards.

 

[Sanepar]

Same raster , but everything else is worse.If AMD was trouncing NV in raster, you could at least see where they spent their time, but they're giving us comparable raster and are missing a lot of stuff compared to NV.It just feels halfhearted sometimes.I want AMD to force NV into changing their ways, but I don't see it happening.

I don't care about everything else... dlss doesn't make sense on high end gpus and it is generation restricted now.

Rt is a waste of time and even 4090 can't delivery 60 fps with that on cp2077.

Only thing i care is raster and they will delivery.

 

[Sanepar]

I'm gonna tattoo the amd logo on my butt if these fuckers manage to save us all on nov 3rd...

If u care about raster they will delivery. If u care about bullshit keep with nvidia.

 

[GymWolf]

If u care about raster they will delivery. If u care about bullshit keep with nvidia.

Well, i don't care about rtx but dlss 2 that doens't introduce input lag is a pretty darn good tech to get more frames\kick up details a notch

But i tried fsr 2.0 in asterigos and at least in quality mode it looks pretty decent, if they manage to have fsr 3.0 to be on par with dlss 2 i have literally no reason to buy an nvidia card.

 

[GymWolf]

Lol
Im going to hold you to that!

You really want to see my ass uh?!

Spoiler

I'm the one with the beanie.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I'm gonna tattoo the amd logo on my butt if these fuckers manage to save us all on nov 3rd...

Get Lisa Su’s face on your ass.

 

[GymWolf]

Get Lisa Su’s face on your ass.

 

[SportsFan581]

They'll lower it to $699, giving them room to release a 3070Ti for $800 later next year...probably

It'll probably be relabeled as the 4070ti and be at $800 with a cut down version called the 4070 for $600-$700. They seem to be moving the prices up big time, I wonder if they will have anything sub $400?

 

[JohnnyFootball]

So much anger towards a company and its consumers. Criticism is fine but throwing all their consumers under a label "fanboys who bend over hurr durr" is quite sad. Don't like their product, don't buy it.

Anyone who pays nvidia's price gauging prices is <insert expletive here> and is ruining PC gaming for everyone.

Spoiler

I agree. It is a little harsh, but it's a fact. AMD isn't going to save them. AMDs prices will be through the roof. Intel is the best hope and that is NOT a good sign.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

What I would be less angry at nvidia doing, (but not liking). Launching the cards at their current prices and then lowering them to "normal" prices after 6 months or so.


At the end of the day I am just grateful I have my 12GB EVGA 3080 to carry me for a long while.

 

[OZ9000]

AMD really needs to increase market share and this is the best opportunity they got in a long time.
But they have to price their cards right and avoid screwing up like they did with Zen4 and their motherboards.

AMD will price their cards as close to Nvidia as possible - which of course is a retarded plan.

 

[poodaddy]

Nvidia is a company of brilliant hardware engineers, incredibly innovative software developers, and absolute scum of the fuckin earth marketers and suits.

 

[Hot5pur]

Maybe this is where AMD says "fuck it" and exchanges the high margins in this oligopoly for market share by undercutting the shit out of Nvidia because their chiplet design will actually let them be extremely competitive on cost.
They basically can match or beat Nvidia in raster, maybe they've caught up in raytracing as well. Yes FSR isn't as good as DLSS but most of the time I have a hard time noticing.
Do it mama.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Maybe this is where AMD says "fuck it" and exchanges the high margins in this oligopoly for market share by undercutting the shit out of Nvidia because their chiplet design will actually let them be extremely competitive on cost.
They basically can match or beat Nvidia in raster, maybe they've caught up in raytracing as well. Yes FSR isn't as good as DLSS but most of the time I have a hard time noticing.
Do it mama.

AMD will say "fuck it" by charging prices as close to nvidia as they can.

 

[SportsFan581]

Maybe this is where AMD says "fuck it" and exchanges the high margins in this oligopoly for market share by undercutting the shit out of Nvidia because their chiplet design will actually let them be extremely competitive on cost.
They basically can match or beat Nvidia in raster, maybe they've caught up in raytracing as well. Yes FSR isn't as good as DLSS but most of the time I have a hard time noticing.
Do it mama.

This is what they should do, no question. But they haven't in all these years yet, so, probably won't start now.

If they want to gain market share they need to offset their price performance. Allow their 4080 competitor to match or beat 4070 pricing and so on down the line. They have undercut prices a bit in the past but never to the degree they would need to in order to gain some ground.

 

[Hot5pur]

AMD will say "fuck it" by charging prices as close to nvidia as they can.

This is what they should do, no question. But they haven't in all these years yet, so, probably won't start now.

If they want to gain market share they need to offset their price performance. Allow their 4080 competitor to match or beat 4070 pricing and so on down the line. They have undercut prices a bit in the past but never to the degree they would need to in order to gain some ground.

Perhaps this is where things change?
It feels like nvidia is fairly hated as a company but everyone understands their hardware is very good, and they know they're giving things up going AMD.
But if AMD can bring it this gen and come out as the pro-consumer company, who knows. It was quite impressive what they did with RDNA2 and they have been very successful with other parts of their business and hiring like crazy - perhaps this is the gen things swing back to AMDs favor and they try to win over consumers.

 

[Haint]

As said before I wouldn’t underestimate AMD, I think they’ll be up there or even ahead when it comes to non-RT.

Problem is, I doubt they’ll go low enough pricewise that it’ll change anything. If you add it all up on a new highend PC setup you’ll end up above $3k total, above €4K in Euroland.
Would 300 less for a AMD card sway the market?
Doubtful.

The reality is that Nvidia is like Playstation, they have insane mindshare and the market will buy their stuff no matter what. Only way it’ll change is if there is a train-wreck malfunction scenario. Youtubers has been trying to exaggerate every concern to kick Nvidia in the nuts, with the power draw concern and size etc, but in the end the truth turned out to be kinda meh. They draw less power than reported, run relatively cool, is less noisy than past gen, unless you go for some extreme card the size is doable too, and even with the high price regular gamers are lining up to buy what is essentially a Titan.

AMD, Nvidia, TSMC, Foxconn, the AIBs, Microsoft, QA houses, and benchmark makers all know the performance of every card a minimum of 6 months in advance. AMD and Nvidia both know exactly where the other's cards land in the performance stack. There is a 10000% guarantee AMD has nothing even close to the 4090, and based on where Nvidia priced the 4080 16G with full knowlege of AMDs offerings, we have to assume the 7900XT is probably close in raster, but obviously inferior in RT and AI feature set. First gen chiplet designs are going to have some major growing pains and won't perform anywhere near as high as the theory or paper specs imply they should.

 

[CrustyBritches]

AMD seems to want to position themselves as the cards people will buy if the Nvidia cards are sold out. $50-100 lower than the Nvidia equivalent, at best. Going for profit margins not market share.

 

[Fess]

AMD, Nvidia, TSMC, Foxconn, the AIBs, Microsoft, and benchmark makers all know the performance every card a minimum of 6 months in advance. AMD and Nvidia both know exactly where the other's cards land in the performance stack. There is a 10000% guarantee AMD has nothing even close to the 4090, and based on where Nvidia priced the 4080 16G with full knowlege of AMDs offerings, we have to assume the 7900XT is probably close in raster, but obviously inferior in RT and Upsampling. First gen chiplet designs are goimg to have some major growing pains and won't perform anywhere near as high as the theory or paper specs imply they should.

Or… Nvidia knew that AMD would be competitive this time and launched the 4090 first and overclocked it in factory to push higher than they originally planned to. And had the 4090Ti as a plan B but had to postpone it when they pushed it too far.