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[TheGreatWhiteShark]

mod edit: see post #25 for clarification. Topic is not reflective of the point being made.

So Jensen today told us that NVIDIA are using XBOX methodology for their RT cores performance measurement



If you watched the presentation, he basically backed up everything microsoft has said.
I think the numbers given by microsoft are sure worth a second look now (25TF of ray tracing performance)
Also, microsoft having already a very powerful cloud for DLSS-type calculations, maybe we are in for more than I expected,
and thus maybe I was too harsh on xbox RT announcements.

Good news none the less

 

[Tripolygon]

He is talking about using Xbox method to convert RT performance to TF number. Equivalent of using a shader to do RT, Turing RT performance equals 45TF.

 

[Compsiox]

I'm assuming you meant 3000 series rather than 3080?

 

[Krisprolls]

I don't know if they cooperate with MS, but their marketing department didn't. Nvidia certainly killed XSX "Teraflops" hype.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

He is talking about using Xbox method to convert RT performance to TF number. Equivalent of using a shader to do RT, Turing RT performance equals 45TF.

Yes, and microsoft says 25TF of RT performance for series X

 

[Warnen]

And MS got it from Cerny obviously.

 

[Tripolygon]

Yes, and microsoft says 25TF of RT performance for series X

Your thread says

NVIDIA boss says GTX 3080 series is using xbox methodology for Ray Tracing
So Jensen today told us not only that NVIDIA cooperates with microsoft for DX IO breakthrough,
but they are using XBOX methodology for their RT cores too.

 

[LazyParrot]

They're not using "XBOX methodology for their RT cores". That would ridiculous, considering Xbox uses AMD hardware. The guy is just using the same method MS uses to convert RT core performance into TF to illustrate how powerful it is.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

Your thread says

well, the text body of my thread says:

If you watched the presentation, he basically backed up everything microsoft has said.
I think the numbers given by microsoft are sure worth a second look.
Also, microsoft having already a very powerful cloud for DLSS-type calculations, maybe we are in for more than I expected,
and thus maybe I was too harsh on xbox RT announcements.

but I edited the first line a bit to not cause any misunderstandings.

And MS got it from Cerny obviously.

Stole it from cerny, you mean :]

 

[CitizenX]

So Nvidea, who has been the leader in tech in gaming forever is asking MS, who is using AMD for their next release for advice, na fam.

 

[Tripolygon]

well, the text body of my thread says:

If you watched the presentation, he basically backed up everything microsoft has said.
I think the numbers given by microsoft are sure worth a second look.
Also, microsoft having already a very powerful cloud for DLSS-type calculations, maybe we are in for more than I expected,
and thus maybe I was too harsh on xbox RT announcements.

but I edited the first line a bit to not cause any misunderstandings.

That literally tells us nothing. We still don't know how they are doing the conversion.

We know

TF = number of cores X clock speed X 2

We know AMD ray triangle intersection performance is calculated by multiplying

4 X number of CU X clock speed

How they are converting from one to the other is still a mystery. It literally tells us nothing other than Nvidia really wants their number to be bigger. That is why he specifically mention Microsoft who claimed 25TF equivalent shader performance to do RT.

 

[Entroyp]

Wasn’t he making fun of how silly MS was when measuring RT numbers? Technically there isn’t anything Nvidia is copying anyone.

 

[GHG]

So Nvidea, who has been the leader in tech in gaming forever is asking MS, who is using AMD for their next release for advice, na fam.

If I read enough of these threads I'll forget these are actually the second generation of ray tracing graphics cards.

Consoles made the technology and they make the best graphics. Next they will be responsible for Adam and Eve.

 

[TheGreatWhiteShark]

How they are converting from one to the other is still a mystery. It literally tells us nothing other than Nvidia really wants their number to be bigger. That is why he specifically mention Microsoft who claimed 25TF equivalent shader performance to do RT.

When microsoft announced 25TF RT performance, I called them out. Seeing Jensen confirming that they are using the same methodology to calculate their own numbers (ray triangle and ray bounding box calculations) means that I was wrong for calling microsoft out.
Sure NVIDIA wants, and most probably NVIDIA DOES have way bigger numbers, but 25 or 26TF of RT for the console is great news

 

[oldergamer]

They're not using "XBOX methodology for their RT cores". That would ridiculous, considering Xbox uses AMD hardware. The guy is just using the same method MS uses to convert RT core performance into TF to illustrate how powerful it is.

Thats not what he was saying. Both Nvidia and MS have extra hardware that handles setup separately from the shaders.

 

[LordOfChaos]

He said if they used the Xbox way of calculating totals, that would be the result. The methodology is obviously entirely different with AMDs architecture using TMUs to either texture or do a BVH per clock and there being no dedicated tensor type cores.

 

[TyphoonStruggle]

alright that's enough GAF "Gaming Discussion" for me today

 

[MiyazakiHatesKojima]

CRAIG.

 

[LazyParrot]

Thats not what he was saying.

That's exactly what he was saying.

Both Nvidia and MS have extra hardware that handles setup separately from the shaders.

Well, yeah. Nvidia has had RT Cores in consumer cards for 2 years now, so I don't see how you can say they're using "Xbox Methodology". If anything, it should be the other way around.

 

[iHaunter]

But... Xbox uses AMD GPU? Am I missing something?

 

[Chiggs]

alright that's enough GAF "Gaming Discussion" for me today

It's turned into an absolute shitshow.

What's next? Trying to convince people Toyota Corollas are better than Aston Martins?

 

[sinnergy]

So MS has a clear edge now in this department supposed to PS5. So it’s 25 TF combined when ray-tracing, should be interesting to see if Xbox gets more path traced games.

 

[ZehDon]

Garbage thread title.

No, Nvidia is not using Xbox's AMD's Hardware's methodology for Ray Tracing. Nvidia has used Microsoft's quantifiers for ray tracing performance, providing a point of comparison that is more "apples to applies".

Better thread title: "Nvidia uses Microsoft's Ray Tracing Performance quantifiers for comparisons."

 

[Max_Po]

Pathetic, trying to use Master Race's positive hype to juice-hype a dead on arrival product.

Yes NVidia is going to copy weak competitor's tech because it is really superior in EssssBockx

 

[ethomaz]

He was more like being funny saying if they use the same methodology as MS then Turing has 45TF of RT.

He just think MS methodology is silly.

BTW he didn’t even bother saying how many it should be on Ampere lol

 

[Sw0pDiller]

No he did not.

 

[martino]

Wasn’t he making fun of how silly MS was when measuring RT numbers? Technically there isn’t anything Nvidia is copying anyone.

They had a bigger number to show for each one ms/Sony used.

 

[BlueXImpulse]

This is quite embarrassing

 

[FranXico]

Jensen mocks Microsoft misleading marketing, and some people think that was some kind of praise. LOL

 

[Panajev2001a]

Also, microsoft having already a very powerful cloud for DLSS-type calculations

Power of the Cloud 2.0 .

 

[Panajev2001a]

They had a bigger number to show for each one ms/Sony used.

Especially the price tag and inversely the amount of units sold (for some reason PCMR expects millions and millions of gamers all on RTX3090’s like months from now ).

 

[sinnergy]

They had a bigger number to show for each one ms/Sony used.

But for a console box it’s still impressive and probably a step above Ps5s implementation. We are talking about cards that are the cost of a PS5 or Series X and the top cards almost 3 times , they better be more powerful for that money you need to build a whole pc around it if you start from scratch.

 

[martino]

Especially the price tag and inversely the amount of units sold (for some reason PCMR expects millions and millions of gamers all on RTX3090’s like months from now ).

of course those big numbers are mostly PR (like for the others)

 

[Balducci30]

Can someone explain to me what the hell teraflops are and why they matter?

 

[oldergamer]

First of all the raytracing setup hardware in the new Xbox is custom developed by MS. It wasn't created by AMD. Second the dedicated hardware in the new rtx cores has twice the performance and allows for
concurrent ray tracing and shading and compute Which is similar to the new xbox. That is what he is talking about regarding methodology. It wasn't about how they arrive at the performance number.

Why is it hard to give credit where its due? The mental gymnastics from some of you to imply that he was making fun of something is honestly ridiculous.

Some of you think MS is this stupid company the controls the widest used game development api on pc by accident. MS is obviously aware of upcoming pc hardware and has a close connection to gpu makers. They even outline the base functionality for how the api interfaces with hardware.

 

[oldergamer]

That's exactly what he was saying.

Well, yeah. Nvidia has had RT Cores in consumer cards for 2 years now, so I don't see how you can say they're using "Xbox Methodology". If anything, it should be the other way around.

That is not what he was saying.

Those raytracing cores that nvidia is using on the 2080 don't work in the same way the new RT cores do in the 3080 by allowing for concurrency of shaders and compute while rt cores are busy.

That is the methodology he was talking about. Also nvidia wasnt the first cardmaker to include dedicated hardware for raytracing. dedicated hardware for raytracing has been available since 2011.

 

[GymWolf]

Well we knew that sex was much stronger rtx wise, now we have another semi-confirmation.

I just hope M devs doesn't only concentrate on rtx in their games, they are not the most important graphical aspect for everyone...

 

[sircaw]

So Jensen today told us that NVIDIA are using XBOX methodology for their RT cores performance measurement



If you watched the presentation, he basically backed up everything microsoft has said.
I think the numbers given by microsoft are sure worth a second look now (25TF of ray tracing performance)
Also, microsoft having already a very powerful cloud for DLSS-type calculations, maybe we are in for more than I expected,
and thus maybe I was too harsh on xbox RT announcements.

Good news none the less

Fs Shark lol, not you again.

Your like a roaming arsonist.