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Analysis [NX Gamer] Dirt 5 | The Next Gen 2.0 Patch Technical Analysis - PS5 | SX | SS

jroc74

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how is the console power war over?

IMO, because there's nothing to see here. Its either a wash or one console having an edge. So far the 12tf beast that eats monsters for breakfast must be going on a diet.
 
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Shmunter

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It's just being overused at the moment. I believe it can be tweaked in detail, so devs just need to get used to it.
Long term, we'll see how it fares versus GE culling, which people claim has a learning curve as well.
GE culling is different in that it will be used for positive results, otherwise why bother. Vrs is there to increase framerate performance, but there is a visual cost.

Learning better application of vrs will be key or bad Microsoft!
 
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Just wait until the NG version of Cyberpunk drops.

Shit is gonna get wild (especially if there is a clear advantage to either side).

That game has lost its luster. Too much politics involved. Game gets removed from Sony's store yet MS (with a marketing deal) doesn't remove it. Game ships with an additional graphics mode on XSX compared to PS5 etc, only looks great on super high end PC's etc.... Cyberpunk has lost worth as a neutral benchmark. Looking forward to other games like Resident Evil 7.
 
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jroc74

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Does Ps5 version show vrs? Guess this is a hint ps5 do not have vrs hardware is true? So no ML, no VRS? Modern gpu cycle savers are not in? 🤷‍♀️
Looking at the results in every comparison so far....this is a win for MS, XSX?

Hmm, interesting. Still relying on paper specs vs actual results?

Interesting.
It already got wild with Cyberpunk.

We had comparisons between the XsX enhanced backwards compatibility and effectively the PS4 Pro version with a better frame rate :messenger_tears_of_joy: .

Surely it can't be worse.
After that madness, and certain ppl clearly being obtuse, I have lil faith for genuine debates, arguments from some ppl going forward,
 
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StateofMajora

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Screenshot vs. in motion are two completely different things. Of course VRS is noticable in a static image.
A game’s camera does stop sometimes, and we do take in the scenery. Besides that, plenty of low res effects are visible in motion, only less so.
 

geordiemp

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Screenshot vs. in motion are two completely different things. Of course VRS is noticable in a static image.

Thats why VRS will MAINLY useful in racing games or games Virtual reality where you can smear the outsides of your view.

VRS is also not so good when upscaling using temporal.

Sony only seem interested in the VR foveated application on VRS.

Riky thinks it will save every game and is some secret power, but thats another story.
 
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a bunch of GameCubes taped together
Nice thread, OP.

Sad The Office GIF
 

phil_t98

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How is the power war still going except for a few die hards or Riky cherry picking the Ps5 dips and ignoring the XSX dips ?

Microsoft have changed their marketing to most powerful Xbox ever and its all died away in a quiet whimper.

Sony seem to not give 2 shits.

Even Richard of DF has not mentioned his loved terrafloppies in over a month ........

We have had our laughs, its boring now. See you again in 3 years for the mid gen refresh war.
So is this you saying you won’t be popping up in comparison threads quoting why the ps5 is better?
 

phil_t98

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IMO, because there's nothing to see here. Its either a wash or one console having an edge. So far the 12tf beast that eats monsters for breakfast must be going on a diet.
So we have cross gen games that have no real next gen features, or ifthere is some they are limited at the moment. Next gen hasn’t even got started yet.

anybody who thinks these first gen games are an indicator of how it will be are wrong. Yeah both consoles will have their advantages
 
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how is the console power war over?

If the differences are not staggering it's not worth marketing in my opinion. Don't really see a power war unless there's a noticeable difference between the two. Certainly nothing like Pro vs One X or PS4 vs X1.

So we have cross gen games that have no real next gen features, or ifthere is some they are limited at the moment. Next gen hasn’t even got started yet.

anybody who thinks these first gen games are an indicator of how it will be are wrong. Yeah both consoles will have their advantages

They do prove that the two are extremely close to each other. In not sure what your expecting to happen. It's not like one system will grow more CUs or anything.
 
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phil_t98

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If the differences are not staggering it's not worth marketing in my opinion. Don't really see a power war unless there's a noticeable difference between the two. Certainly nothing like Pro vs One X or PS4 vs X1.
So do you think any of these games currently out are using anywhere near the full potential of PS5 or XSX
 
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So do you think any of these games currently out are using anywhere near the full potential of PS5 or XSX

Neither did the PS4 and X1 launch games. But the delta remained throughout the generation even after developers got more familiar with the hardware. Definitely not expecting one to become massively more powerful than the over the next few years. Hardware simply doesn't work like that. Also it's not like either are like the PS3 so the CELL argument doesn't really work here.

If your expecting a massive brutal difference between the two you might want to set your expectations lower.
 
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DJ12

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Screenshot vs. in motion are two completely different things. Of course VRS is noticable in a static image.
Take it you haven't watched the video then either, it's jarring in motion as much as it is in still, perhaps more so as you can track VRS as a blob of awfulness moving around the screen.
 
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phil_t98

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Neither did the PS4 and X1 launch games. But the delta remained throughout the generation even after developers got more familiar with the hardware. Definitely not expecting one to become massively more powerful than the over the next few years. Hardware simply doesn't work like that. Also it's not like either are like the PS3 so the CELL argument doesn't really work here.
Yeah but the difference there was the power difference was heavy in favour of the PS4 , it’s gonna be an interesting few years I think
 
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Yeah but the difference there was the power difference was heavy in favour of the PS4 , it’s gonna be an interesting few years I think

Well there were many areas where the PS4 was simply more powerful than the X1. The same isn't happening this time around. People expecting massive differences between the two are going to be disappointed. If there really was a huge delta we would have seen it already with the launch games. Think of a Native 4K vs Dynamic 1800P kind of situation.
 

Leyasu

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So, maybe 3rd party games will be a wash and the exclusives will show what each console is capable of?
That could well be the sum of it.

Using cross gen launch games doesn’t seem like a good metric to measure any system on in all honesty.
 

Hendrick's

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Take it you haven't watched the video then either, it's jarring in motion as much as it is in still, perhaps more so as you can track VRS as a blob of awfulness moving around the screen.
You mean the zoomed in slow motion part of the video? Again, not what you see while playing the game. I have never noticed that while playing.
 
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phil_t98

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Well there were many areas where the PS4 was simply more powerful than the X1. The same isn't happening this time around. People expecting massive differences between the two are going to be disappointed. If there really was a huge delta we would have seen it already with the launch games. Think of a Native 4K vs Dynamic 1800P kind of situation.
We wouldn’t of seen it already, as I said all these games hardly use any next gen features, and the ones that have are limited. Look and Spider-Man MM which looks amazing, but the ray tracing has its limits. That’s not the console showing it’s limits it’s just games being cross gen and also COVID this year effecting the launch games. Wait till the next Spider-Man game and see how much of a jump it will be
 
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We wouldn’t of seen it already, as I said all these games hardly use any next gen features, and the ones that have are limited. Look and Spider-Man MM which looks amazing, but the ray tracing has its limits. That’s not the console showing it’s limits it’s just games being cross gen and also COVID this year effecting the launch games. Wait till the next Spider-Man game and see how much of a jump it will be

I'm not talking about games getting better and the gen goes along. I'm talking about the delta between the two platforms.

It's not like we start off the gen with parity and in a year one system will be 100% more powerful than the other. Both systems will improve with time but there won't be a massive increase in the differences between the two.
 

phil_t98

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I'm not talking about games getting better and the gen goes along. I'm talking about the delta between the two platforms.

It's not like we start off the gen with parity and in a year one system will be 100% more powerful than the other. Both systems will improve with time but there won't be a massive increase in the differences between the two.
My point is these games are nowhere near push either system and they are full of bugs. Look at Valhalla , Dirt 5 and so on. Everybody was saying how the ps5 was running better, especially in terms of dirt 5 and saying how Xbox had to lower settings because it couldn’t keep up with ps5. A quickly rushed patch and it’s equal or better now, let’s see if it’s true the tools and stuff weren’t mature noun for Xbox. The games may run similar in the future but I expect those extra TF on Xbox things like ray tracing will work better in Xbox favour with that extra bit of power
 

Hendrick's

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No, you can see it all the time, especially in 120 fps mode.

it doesn't really matter if you admit you can see it, it's there for all to see.
Well I don't play in 120 mode. In quality mode I have never noticed it while playing.
 

jroc74

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Yeah but the difference there was the power difference was heavy in favour of the PS4 , it’s gonna be an interesting few years I think
So if its close now, isnt it safe to assume it will continue to be close?
That could well be the sum of it.

Using cross gen launch games doesn’t seem like a good metric to measure any system on in all honesty.
It was done for the past 15 years tho.....

I'll say this: if thats the case, we also cant use how games run in BC either then.

So we all just wait until full next gen 3rd party games come out.

My point is these games are nowhere near push either system and they are full of bugs. Look at Valhalla , Dirt 5 and so on. Everybody was saying how the ps5 was running better, especially in terms of dirt 5 and saying how Xbox had to lower settings because it couldn’t keep up with ps5. A quickly rushed patch and it’s equal or better now, let’s see if it’s true the tools and stuff weren’t mature noun for Xbox. The games may run similar in the future but I expect those extra TF on Xbox things like ray tracing will work better in Xbox favour with that extra bit of power

The elephant in the room that many are skipping over is the average resolution in this game.

That was supposed to be the reverse because of the cu and TF difference between the 2 consoles. That and the XSX was gonna do native 4K while the PS5 did dynamic.

NXGamer points out where its better on PS5, and it has a higher average resolution.

All I know is the speculation that the XSX would definitely have better frame rates and resolution than PS5 is thrown out the window. For now. Some did think the PS5 could have better framerates because of the SSD tho.

The speculation threads vs reality is a sight to behold.
 
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DJ12

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So if its close now, isnt it safe to assume it will continue to be close?

It was done for the past 15 years tho.....

I'll say this: if thats the case, we also cant use how games run in BC either then.

So we all just wait until full next gen 3rd party games come out.



The elephant in the room that many are skipping over is the average resolution in this game.

That was supposed to be the reverse because of the cu and TF difference between the 2 consoles. That and the XSX was gonna do native 4K while the PS5 did dynamic.

NXGamer points out where its better on PS5, and it has a higher average resolution.

All I know is the speculation that the XSX would have better frame rates and resolution than PS5 is thrown out the window. For now.
I wouldn't bother, xbox fans think the consoles exist in a vacuum, and only xbox is going to get better. Same happened last gen too. This is not exotic hardware like the PS3 where it was demonstrated with knowledge you could really do something special with it, this is, in series S/X case anyway, off the shelf PC parts with a few alterations. It's going to be fun when the games on PS5 start using kraken compression and take on oodle textures. Or when Sony start automating some basic steps for the GE to carry out (I don't expect 3rd party devs to really use this as intended, but 1st/2nd party games are going to open eyes in my opinion)

But yeah, none of this exists, enjoy your power of tower boys and girls. Maybe Microsoft will ramp up the cooling and increase the clocks in a future revision and say no more about it.
 
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My point is these games are nowhere near push either system and they are full of bugs. Look at Valhalla , Dirt 5 and so on. Everybody was saying how the ps5 was running better, especially in terms of dirt 5 and saying how Xbox had to lower settings because it couldn’t keep up with ps5. A quickly rushed patch and it’s equal or better now, let’s see if it’s true the tools and stuff weren’t mature noun for Xbox. The games may run similar in the future but I expect those extra TF on Xbox things like ray tracing will work better in Xbox favour with that extra bit of power

Well they had to lower the minimum resolution in Assassin's Creed Valhalla on Xbox if im not wrong. Seems like they sacrificed one thing to improve another. The two versions are practically identical so no big delta there.

The PS5 has other advantages that will help it out in the future just like the XSX does. However if there were large differences between the two we would have seen them already. Like the XSS when compared to the PS5 or XSX.
 

Fafalada

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Long term, we'll see how it fares versus GE culling, which people claim has a learning curve as well.
Worth noting that when people associate GE to VRS, they are referencing an actual application of changing shading (or resolution) rates, nut culling. Which would have similar artifacts in use (though different performance implications given the pipeline stage it happens at).
But it's one thing for which we don't have a clear confirmation yet (whether some pixel counter spotting visible artifacts in a game, or official word to its existence or lack of thereof) it's based off of insider hints and patent portfolio associations.
 

phil_t98

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So if its close now, isnt it safe to assume it will continue to be close?

It was done for the past 15 years tho.....

I'll say this: if thats the case, we also cant use how games run in BC either then.

So we all just wait until full next gen 3rd party games come out.



The elephant in the room that many are skipping over is the average resolution in this game.

That was supposed to be the reverse because of the cu and TF difference between the 2 consoles. That and the XSX was gonna do native 4K while the PS5 did dynamic.

NXGamer points out where its better on PS5, and it has a higher average resolution.

All I know is the speculation that the XSX would definitely have better frame rates and resolution than PS5 is thrown out the window. For now. Some did think the PS5 could have better framerates because of the SSD tho.

The speculation threads vs reality is a sight to behold.

and Digital foundry saying games are bugged and that's why we are seeing the results we are. No game so far has set itself in glory for res or frame rates
 

Leyasu

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So if its close now, isnt it safe to assume it will continue to be close?

It was done for the past 15 years tho.....

I'll say this: if thats the case, we also cant use how games run in BC either then.

So we all just wait until full next gen 3rd party games come out.



The elephant in the room that many are skipping over is the average resolution in this game.

That was supposed to be the reverse because of the cu and TF difference between the 2 consoles. That and the XSX was gonna do native 4K while the PS5 did dynamic.

NXGamer points out where its better on PS5, and it has a higher average resolution.

All I know is the speculation that the XSX would definitely have better frame rates and resolution than PS5 is thrown out the window. For now. Some did think the PS5 could have better framerates because of the SSD tho.

The speculation threads vs reality is a sight to behold.

Using BC is fucking stupid as a measure of anything.

Some 3rd party studios will push the hardware and their strengths R* for example will, yet others wont. I am not saying that we should ignore 3rd parties btw. These launch games have been coming in hot. Some hotter than others. This game in particular.

I'll also address what you wrote below about the resolution. Although it seems like I am repeating myself. Dirt 5 is not even a looker, it ain't pushing either console, and it amazes me the narratives that this game is helping to push when Forza Horizon exists on the XsX with a perf patch.... And pisses all over Dirt 5. Yet everyone ignores it and starts talking about hardware problems that they have no clue about.

If Godfall hadn't had bombed so badly, then that could have been an interesting comparison when it's 6 mth sony deal is up. Now though, I fear thet they will do a quick port and send it out to die on Xbox too.
 
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longdi

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Looking at the results in every comparison so far....this is a win for MS, XSX?

Hmm, interesting. Still relying on paper specs vs actual results?

Interesting.

After that madness, and certain ppl clearly being obtuse, I have lil faith for genuine debates, arguments from some ppl going forward,

VRS is supposed to give a perf boost with minimal distraction to the player.
Nvidia, Amd and MS, cant all be wrong here. 🤷‍♀️
Lets wait before we close the case using a launch x-gen title
 
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geordiemp

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My point is these games are nowhere near push either system and they are full of bugs. Look at Valhalla , Dirt 5 and so on. Everybody was saying how the ps5 was running better, especially in terms of dirt 5 and saying how Xbox had to lower settings because it couldn’t keep up with ps5. A quickly rushed patch and it’s equal or better now, let’s see if it’s true the tools and stuff weren’t mature noun for Xbox. The games may run similar in the future but I expect those extra TF on Xbox things like ray tracing will work better in Xbox favour with that extra bit of power

Unless Ms can redesign the silicon to have more than 4 shader arrays the results are as I expected 4 months ago.

The games are using the features and hardware, there is no hidden magic. Engines will get better like UE5 and small improvements for both.

Games will use even more primative / mesh but the hardware does that now in current games is what I believe.

The next interesting comparison will be to see how both consoles run UE5 Nanite and Lumen.

But your welcome to believe different.Below is 6800 XT converting vertices to primatives, something posters think will change but its already in place with drivers. VRS is what it is, so what. What else is there ?

I use these video to see the patch and bug state of the game and inform next purchasing decision of which I may or may not comment on.

 
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phil_t98

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Well they had to lower the minimum resolution in Assassin's Creed Valhalla on Xbox if im not wrong. Seems like they sacrificed one thing to improve another. The two versions are practically identical so no big delta there.

The PS5 has other advantages that will help it out in the future just like the XSX does. However if there were large differences between the two we would have seen them already. Like the XSS when compared to the PS5 or XSX.

hasn't that been comfier they rushed the patch for that, they even said it was a quick fix
 
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phil_t98

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Unless Ms can redesign the silicon to have more than 4 shader arrays the results are as I expected 4 months ago.

The games are using the features and hardware, there is no hidden magic. Engines will get better like UE5 and small improvements for both.

Games will use even more primative / mesh but the hardware does that now in current games is what I believe.

The next interesting comparison will be to see how both consoles run UE5 Nanite and Lumen.

But your welcome to believe different.Below is 6800 XT converting vertices to primatives, something posters think will change but its already in place with drivers. VRS is what it is, so what. What else is there ?

I use these video to see the patch and bug state of the game and inform next purchasing decision of which I may or may not comment on.

So
Your saying ps5 already being pushed to its max
 
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grfunkulus

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This is why we need longer fps examples. He hasn't even reached the first corner and soon as he's clear of the cars PS5 jumps to 120 from 90 while SX is 110 plus when in the cars. All the other comparisons he's way ahead of the cars so its 120 easy.
Not for console wars but for constructive discussion if he actually stayed with the cars maybe we could see why they have made changes to the PS5 version.

Correct. Out of context, avg framerate is the most misleading stat, period.
 
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Caio

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So
Your saying ps5 already being pushed to its max

Only 1st Party Sony Devs can push PS5 to the limits, and it will take time, probably close to the end of the generation, this happens with every generation. Sorry if I say obvious things...well...not so obvious for some.
 
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So
Your saying ps5 already being pushed to its max

Well some people say that the PS5 I'd already maxed out due to how easy it is to develop for. That's also the reason why they believe the gap will grow in the XSXs favor.

This isn't something that I believe because I know each system has customizations that haven't been taken advantage of yet. Overtime both will get better.
 

nikolino840

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I think its obvious those crushed black areas are a bug of some kind. Both versions of the game appear to have tons of visual bugs between them.
Probably becouse nxgamer can't do a proper video with series x ,remember the blurry valhalla? He admitted that he had problems making a capture with series x version with his captures tools
 
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phil_t98

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Well some people say that the PS5 I'd already maxed out due to how easy it is to develop for. That's also the reason why they believe the gap will grow in the XSXs favor.

This isn't something that I believe because I know each system has customizations that haven't been taken advantage of yet. Overtime both will get better.
I would say they not even taxing 50% of what these consoles can do at the moment. Loads of head room, just the launch games been designed fo so many consoles that there are bugs everywhere
 
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geordiemp

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So
Your saying ps5 already being pushed to its max

Pushed to the max is a odd statement and can never true.....BUT what does pushed to the max mean anyway ?

If the engines dont change, the games wont run any better.

Some engines are better than others, see Miles Morales or Doom. Is that what you mean ?

Better 3rd party engines will run better on both consoles as more work efficient. So what ?

We see this in AMD vs Nvidia where 6800 vs 3800 in non RT some engines run +/- 5 % better RELATIVE to each other, and thats 2 totally different GPU designs.

Ps5 and XSX are what they are, I was talking is RELATIVE performance terms these face offs will be much of a muchness / rinse and repeat until we get to NANITE which is very different was my point.

Anyway, you make your own predictions.
 
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Fredrik

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This is why we need longer fps examples. He hasn't even reached the first corner and soon as he's clear of the cars PS5 jumps to 120 from 90 while SX is 110 plus when in the cars. All the other comparisons he's way ahead of the cars so its 120 easy.
Not for console wars but for constructive discussion if he actually stayed with the cars maybe we could see why they have made changes to the PS5 version.
I think this is more interesting

This is the jarring framerate judder that NX talks about that pops up from nowhere on PS5 in the 60fps modes, others have mentioned it too. But people here aren’t playing the game so there is little talk about that unfortunately.

The 120fps mode talk is mostly interesting because it came with new HDMI2.1 TVs which also have VRR. Which means that it’ll actually look perfectly smooth on all modes on XSX on such a setup. 110,120,55,60, etc. Smoooooth. That’s the whole beauty of it. 🙂

Unfortunately I don’t think it’s easy to show VRR, I think a 60fps video will destroy the smoothness since the screen can put frames between the frames on the video, effectively recreating the judder VRR just removed. Maybe if you film it with a 120fps camera it could work? But how do you show 120fps videos on the net? Hmm. Something for NX and DF to think about.
 
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II_JumPeR_I

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Maybe I'm just uninformed but did the Series X have even 1 exclusive on day 1? PS5 had 3.

And for anyone that bought a PS5 and never had a PS4, good lord the amount of quality games is staggering. I'm sorry but at the moment, X just has XB1 games. Forza, Gears and Halo. And besides Forza Horizon 3 and 4, none of the other other titles are even close in terms of the whole package when it comes to most PS4 exclusives.

If you have a PC there is zero reason ever to own an Xbox as well. I found that out really quick the hard way.

PC/PS5/Switch masterrace
So i cant enjoy my SeriesX because there are no ExClUsIveS?

Sry but two of this three exclusives are ps4 games and nothing to write home about...

There are plenty of reasons to own a xbox.
Fuck off with that hur dur get a pc...
A competent pc would cost twice as much as a Xbox. God damn with this garbage mentality.

Man this forum gets worse and worse with this console warrior shit and dont get me started on some clowns here spreading their armchair software and hardware knowledge...
 
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FritzJ92

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Before this becomes 11 pages of fanboys crowning their respective platform the winner, I'd like to add that this patch obviously shows how much more these consoles can achieve and how primitive the launch games are. Furthermore, it seems that Series X got improved LOD, improved texture filtering, improved assets, and the framerates improved also, meaning the game is just poorly optimized on it. I think it's the same situation with the PS5, Codemasters most likely rushed to get this game out, especially since they had to cover 7 different consoles.
I seriously can not wait till we drop last-gen consoles completely.
I also think games built for next-gen ONLY will show some amazing performances on both, I still think SX will slightly pull ahead but nothing crazy.
 

Fredrik

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So i cant enjoy my SeriesX because there are no ExClUsIveS?

Sry but two of this three exclusives are ps4 games and nothing to write home about...

There are plenty of reasons to own a xbox.
Fuck off with that hur durget a pc...
A competent pc would cost twice as much as a Xbox. God damn with this garbage mentality.

Man this forum gets worse and worse with this console warrior shit and dont get me started on some clown here spreading their armchair software and hardware knowledge...
No crankiness needed, enjoy what you have, I’m not sure people here are even playing the game anyway, it runs beautifully on the XSX now, even better if you have a new TV. And make sure to get on the Retroarch train and ride off into the oh so sweet retro sunset with the rest of us 👌😉

Retroarch awesomeness