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Spoilers NX Gamer PS5 full spec analysis - a new generation is born

Turk1993

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Were not talking about console vs pc here, i dont know what amd will use on the future but certainly the pc ssds will have to be used just star citizen needs a ssd compulsory doesnt matter how fast your pc gpu is
Why you use a pc workstation GPU then that is intended to render as a example?
 

Rightisright

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Since some people already accusing me for making threads. Eh ,the hell....
Anyway, interesting analysis by NX Gamer ( btw. he
he praises the XSX too, so don't call him a Sony fanboy

Love the intro. LOL

He's off on a number of points.
The XSX has superior bandwidth to PS and isn't a bottle neck in any way on the XSX.
Firstly the 10GB/s of fast RAM is alot faster than any of the PS5 RAM.
Secondly, 2.5GB of slower RAM will be used up by the OS, leaving 3.5GB of slower RAM. The average bandwidth of the remaining XSX RAM runs at an average of over 500GB/s compared to the 448GB/s, some 60GB/s faster than the PS5.
And anytime someone refers to Cu's as "cores" it's time you don't take them seriously.
If he has any knowedge and wanted to point out areas the PS5 would be better at he would have calculated the pixel fill rate advantage etc.
 

demigod

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He's off on a number of points.
The XSX has superior bandwidth to PS and isn't a bottle neck in any way on the XSX.
Firstly the 10GB/s of fast RAM is alot faster than any of the PS5 RAM.
Secondly, 2.5GB of slower RAM will be used up by the OS, leaving 3.5GB of slower RAM. The average bandwidth of the remaining XSX RAM runs at an average of over 500GB/s compared to the 448GB/s, some 60GB/s faster than the PS5.
And anytime someone refers to Cu's as "cores" it's time you don't take them seriously.
If he has any knowedge and wanted to point out areas the PS5 would be better at he would have calculated the pixel fill rate advantage etc.
Wrongiswrong again. The remaining 3.5gb are slower than the PS5.
 

it_wasn't_me

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He's off on a number of points.
The XSX has superior bandwidth to PS and isn't a bottle neck in any way on the XSX.
Firstly the 10GB/s of fast RAM is alot faster than any of the PS5 RAM.
Secondly, 2.5GB of slower RAM will be used up by the OS, leaving 3.5GB of slower RAM. The average bandwidth of the remaining XSX RAM runs at an average of over 500GB/s compared to the 448GB/s, some 60GB/s faster than the PS5.
And anytime someone refers to Cu's as "cores" it's time you don't take them seriously.
If he has any knowedge and wanted to point out areas the PS5 would be better at he would have calculated the pixel fill rate advantage etc.
If devs will use the rest of 3.5 GB ( which is slower than PS5 RAM ) slower RAM, speed drops to 476 on average., so, it's not 500
 
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TJC

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I've got a good idea, how about people wait until we see in game footage comparisons. I'm sure people can wait. Personally I'm very excited for PS5 I feel like the SSD is a game changer. l need to see games benefiting from it though, audio got me interested also. Discourse is so toxic in the gaming community, I'm happy for Xbox fans as they have a very powerful machine also. Exited to see games I'm hoping June we start to see more game footage. Be happy, play nice. 🙏
 
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Johnglen

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I've got a good idea, how about people wait until we see in game footage comparisons. I'm sure people can wait. Personally I'm very excited for PS5 I feel like the SSD is a game changer. l need to see games benefiting from it though, audio got me interested also. Discourse is so toxic in the gaming community, I'm happy for Xbox fans as they have a very powerful machine also. Exited to see games I'm hoping June we start to see more game footage. Be happy, play nice. 🙏
I have got an even better idea, people that don’t like tech threads can avoid reading them.
 

Rightisright

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If devs will use the rest of 3.5 GB ( which is slower than PS5 RAM ) slower RAM, speed drops to 476 on average., so, it's not 500
Not quite right.
The 10GB will run at the full 560 GB/s and the the 3.5 GB will run at the full 336 GB/s for an average over 500 GB/s total. And remember that the slower RAM would be used for things like audio etc. The 10GB of fast RAM is more than enough for graphics.
The XSX memory is superior to PS5, anyone saying it isnt is clowning themselves.
 
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it_wasn't_me

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Not quite right. Remember what the slower RAM would be used for. Things like audio etc. The 10GB of fast RAM is more than enough for graphics.
The XSX memory is superior to PS5, anyone saying it isnt is clowning themselves.
It is right. You think that dev will never use more than 10 GB later in development? Sure, Jan.gif
Jeez, nobody is saying that XSX doesn't have a faster memory. LOL. But if they will use that 3.5 GB of slower RAM for games , speed will drop on average.
 

Rightisright

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It is right. You think that dev will never use more than 10 GB later in development? Sure, Jan.gif
Jeez, nobody is saying that XSX doesn't have a faster memory. LOL. But if they will use that 3.5 GB of slower RAM for games , speed will drop on average.
Yeah, it will drop to 502GB/s.
560 x 10 = 5600
3.5 x 336 = 1176
5600 + 1176 = 6776
6776 ÷ 13.5 = 501.92
 

LMJ

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Romulus Romulus While playstation 4 games will almost certainly continue to be developed, these will likely be cross Gen. And just backwards compatible on the playstation 5

Whereas actual playstation 5 exclusive games or multi plats going forward will only be able be played on the playstation 5

The only possible exception of the rule I could see in this goes for both mid Gen. Systems the Pro and the X may actually be supported on a much lower faction when it comes to new exclusives so cross Gen. If you will but it's missing a lot of Bells and whistles and other features...

I could see both Microsoft and Sony eventually phasing out the base Systems and selling only the pro and the X as their main last-gen systems
 

Shmunter

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I agree that PS5 has some secret sauce with that SSD. But do you thing people outside of first party will use it ? I owe all consoles this gen, and i will buy a both console this holiday . I really think these consoles are more similar than different.
Valid question. Can’t see 3rd party exploiting it unless sponsored by Sony for some kind of timed exclusivity. Also maybe if PS5 sells significantly more becoming the default platform for most devs, but even then it will be conservative vs what could be pushed.
 
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Shmunter

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NXgamer gets schooled by DF guys on Era 😅 good stuff 😎
Just read it, you mean Dictator offered an alternative view on how the power supply and clocks work. And even then the audience are challenging his claims.

E.g.




Seems like you just got Destroyed! Lol, hyperbole.

Edit: I actually understood the power clocks like the DIcktator guy says it, I.e clocks are under dev control, but there is no reason NX couldn’t be right also where it’s a dynamic shift based on the system managing the load on its own automatically - no reason why it couldn’t.
 
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Shmunter

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Posted this in an incorrect thread previously...posting here..

NXGamer NXGamer can I request your kind input;

The o/s ram allocation being large in size may actually be in large part the gameplay recording from the game dvr functions. Do you think it would be best kept in ram -or- direct record to ssd ;or is that too punishing on the ssd over time. I suspect it may need to stay in ram and a couple of gig are unavoidable.

Also we need a video on the potential RT performance off both systems, stat! 😇
 

Rightisright

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Wrongiswrong again. The remaining 3.5gb are slower than the PS5.²
Is English your second language? You seem to have a issue understanding what I wrote.
The AVERAGE bandwidth when you include both the 10GB at 560GB/s and the 3.5GB at 336GB/s is 502GB/s. So the 10GB at 560 is so much faster then the PS5s, that even when you factor in the 3.5GB of slower RAM, the XSX can still handle more data through the memory than the PS5 can.
If you still have an issue understanding it, let me know and I will break down into smaller syllables for you.
 
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-kb-

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Is English your second language? You seem to have a issue understanding what I wrote.
The AVERAGE bandwidth when you include both the 10GB at 560GB/s and the 3.5GB at 336GB/s is 502GB/s. So the 10GB at 560 is so much faster then the PS5s, that even when you factor in the 3.5GB of slower RAM, the XSX can still handle more data through the memory than the PS5 can.
If you still have an issue understanding it, let me know and I will break down into smaller syllables for you.
First off, 6GB of the memory is at 336GB/s, its just reserved by the OS. This actually brings down the peak theoretical bandwidth (by a bit), because then the OS uses and locks the bus itll only be running at 336GB/s.

Secondly, the 'averaged' speed across all chips is 476GB/s because its 560 * (10/16) + 336 * (6/16).
 

ethomaz

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Not quite right.
The 10GB will run at the full 560 GB/s and the the 3.5 GB will run at the full 336 GB/s for an average over 500 GB/s total. And remember that the slower RAM would be used for things like audio etc. The 10GB of fast RAM is more than enough for graphics.
The XSX memory is superior to PS5, anyone saying it isnt is clowning themselves.
You don’t know how math works, no?

10 * 560 + 6GB * 336 = 7616
7616 / 16 = 476 GB/s average.

The 16GB RAM of Xbox has an average of 476GB/s.
 
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ethomaz

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Just read it, you mean Dictator offered an alternative view on how the power supply and clocks work. And even then the audience are challenging his claims.

E.g.




Seems like you just got Destroyed! Lol, hyperbole.

Edit: I actually understood the power clocks like the DIcktator guy says it, I.e clocks are under dev control, but there is no reason NX couldn’t be right also where it’s a dynamic shift based on the system managing the load on its own automatically - no reason why it couldn’t.
Yeap I read that thread early and I didn’t find any schooled comment.
BTW both can be right from what Cerny told.
Devs can manually choose where the power goes (GPU or CPU) and probably there is some automatically control to not go over the power limit.
 
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ethomaz

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First off, 6GB of the memory is at 336GB/s, its just reserved by the OS. This actually brings down the peak theoretical bandwidth (by a bit), because then the OS uses and locks the bus itll only be running at 336GB/s.

Secondly, the 'averaged' speed across all chips is 476GB/s because its 560 * (10/16) + 336 * (6/16).
He things the memory pool has two buses so OS part and game part are accessed simultaneously lol

In fact it is one bus where the 16GB are shared between CPU and GPU.

CPU and I/O controller access the 16GB at 336GB/s.
GPU access 10GB at 560GB/s and 6GB at 6GB/s.

Only the GPU has different access times for part of the memory pool.
 
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Rightisright

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Page 4 on similar thread name as Gaf on era. Dictactor DF schooled NXG 😎.

He also got called out for downplaying TF on XSX specs video.

DF - The expert of the industry
Man, that was bad reading if your are in the SDF.
No wonder that Sony shill Jason Schreier was pushing so hard to prop up the PS5. Even the hidden Sony assets like JS have been called to the front lines.
 

Rightisright

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First off, 6GB of the memory is at 336GB/s, its just reserved by the OS. This actually brings down the peak theoretical bandwidth (by a bit), because then the OS uses and locks the bus itll only be running at 336GB/s.

Secondly, the 'averaged' speed across all chips is 476GB/s because its 560 * (10/16) + 336 * (6/16).
The 2.5GB reserved for OS won't be used for game, so dont include that in what the RAM average speed available for games is.
You would only do that to paint a fake picture of real time game RAM bandwidth. Unless of course you think that memory used for the OS will effect RAM speed available to developers, in which case tell me how.
 
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-kb-

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The 2.5GB reserved for OS won't be used for game, so dont include that in what the RAM average speed available for games is.
You would only do that to paint a fake picture of real time game RAM bandwidth. Unless of course you think that memory used for the OS will effect RAM speed available to developers, in which case tell me how.
The CPU still has to access the memory, anytime this happens the bus runs at 336GB/s. Its not painting a fake picture, its painting the real overall picture of RAM bandwidth on the machine, unless you expect the CPU to never access the memory?.
 

Rightisright

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The CPU still has to access the memory, anytime this happens the bus runs at 336GB/s. Its not painting a fake picture, its painting the real overall picture of RAM bandwidth on the machine, unless you expect the CPU to never access the memory?.
Go and listen to the breakdowns on it. The RAM that is 560GB/s is 560/GBs regardless of what other RAM is being used, otherwise it would never achieve that speed unless it was a split memory pool.
Wishful thinking.
 

Rightisright

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You don’t know how math works, no?

10 * 560 + 6GB * 336 = 7616
7616 / 16 = 476 GB/s average.

The 16GB RAM of Xbox has an average of 476GB/s.
Yep, and I also know that 2.5GB is for the OS and not for games. Do you know consoles have OS that require RAM? And that RAM isn't available for devs? And that MS has allocated 2.5GB of the slower RAM for the OS? And So that leaves 10GB of 560GB/s RAM and 3.5GB of 336GB/s of RAM available for devs yeah? And So when you work out the average bandwidth available for games and devs you dont include the RAM allocated to the OS yeah? And So now you know why your maths is wrong yeah?
 

-kb-

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Go and listen to the breakdowns on it. The RAM that is 560GB/s is 560/GBs regardless of what other RAM is being used, otherwise it would never achieve that speed unless it was a split memory pool.
Wishful thinking.
The memory layout is like this. Its a single 16GB pool of memory that has a 320bit bus attached to it, it achieves 16GB of memory with a 320bit by using mixed density memory modules. The lower density of these modules can access the entire 320bit bus achieving 560GB/s of bandwidth, the higher density modules can only be accessed together achieving a 192bit bus with a bandwidth of 336GB/s.

If you access the slower 6GB of ram you get 336GB/s from the 6GB and also lock the bus preventing the other 10GB from being read or written to.

If you access the faster 10GB of ram you get 560GB/s from the 10GB and also lock the bus preventing the other 6GB from being read or written to.

This is a contended resource and not two magically split pools of ram. If the CPU accesses the memory at 336GB/s via the slower 6GB of ram the GPU cannot access any of the memory whilst the transaction is taking place.
 
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Man, that was bad reading if your are in the SDF.
No wonder that Sony shill Jason Schreier was pushing so hard to prop up the PS5. Even the hidden Sony assets like JS have been called to the front lines.
He just repeating the same bs as what Cerny had spout lol even the TF downplaying part.

It's embarrassing to watch his video about XSX without him mentioning how beastly is the XSX specs and technology.
 

Shmunter

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The memory layout is like this. Its a single 16GB pool of memory that has a 320bit bus attached to it, it achieves 16GB of memory with a 320bit by using mixed density memory modules. The lower density of these modules can access the entire 320bit bus achieving 560GB/s of bandwidth, the higher density modules can only be accessed together achieving a 192bit bus with a bandwidth of 336GB/s.

If you access the slower 6GB of ram you get 336GB/s from the 6GB and also lock the bus preventing the other 10GB from being read or written to.

If you access the faster 10GB of ram you get 560GB/s from the 10GB and also lock the bus preventing the other 6GB from being read or written to.

This is a contended resource and not two magically split pools of ram. If the CPU accesses the memory at 336GB/s via the slower 6GB of ram the GPU cannot access any of the memory whilst the transaction is taking place.
It makes sense a 560 read/write will need to wait for a 336 read/write to complete. On average there will be unnecessary bottlenecking. Not sure the real world result, could differ on ratio of fast vs slow ram used in a particular situation or title.

If every second read is from the 336 pool, then the ram speed averages out Between the 2 areas.

Don’t know why ms made this unnecessary complexity to contend with. Maybe their profiling shows most of the action happens in the 10gig so the compromise was worth it.
 
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-kb-

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It makes sense a 560 read/write will need to wait for a 336 read/write to complete. On average there will be unnecessary bottlenecking. Not sure the real world result, could differ on ratio of fast vs slow ram used in a particular situation or title.

Don’t know why ms made this unnecessary complexity to contend with. Maybe their profiling shows most of the action happens in the 10gig so the compromise was worth it.
The decision was made because 20GB of GDDR6 did not fit into their target BoM. This setup outside of cost only offers disadvantages to a memory system that uses all the same size memory modules.
 
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ethomaz

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The memory layout is like this. Its a single 16GB pool of memory that has a 320bit bus attached to it, it achieves 16GB of memory with a 320bit by using mixed density memory modules. The lower density of these modules can access the entire 320bit bus achieving 560GB/s of bandwidth, the higher density modules can only be accessed together achieving a 192bit bus with a bandwidth of 336GB/s.

If you access the slower 6GB of ram you get 336GB/s from the 6GB and also lock the bus preventing the other 10GB from being read or written to.

If you access the faster 10GB of ram you get 560GB/s from the 10GB and also lock the bus preventing the other 6GB from being read or written to.

This is a contended resource and not two magically split pools of ram. If the CPU accesses the memory at 336GB/s via the slower 6GB of ram the GPU cannot access any of the memory whilst the transaction is taking place.
I have no ideia why people are trying to combination bandwidth when it is the same bus doing the job lol
 

demigod

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Is English your second language? You seem to have a issue understanding what I wrote.
The AVERAGE bandwidth when you include both the 10GB at 560GB/s and the 3.5GB at 336GB/s is 502GB/s. So the 10GB at 560 is so much faster then the PS5s, that even when you factor in the 3.5GB of slower RAM, the XSX can still handle more data through the memory than the PS5 can.
If you still have an issue understanding it, let me know and I will break down into smaller syllables for you.
You don’t know how math works, no?

10 * 560 + 6GB * 336 = 7616
7616 / 16 = 476 GB/s average.

The 16GB RAM of Xbox has an average of 476GB/s.
Lol he mocked my English yet he can’t even math.
 

Deto

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Not quite right.
The 10GB will run at the full 560 GB/s and the the 3.5 GB will run at the full 336 GB/s for an average over 500 GB/s total. And remember that the slower RAM would be used for things like audio etc. The 10GB of fast RAM is more than enough for graphics.
The XSX memory is superior to PS5, anyone saying it isnt is clowning themselves.
More CUs need more bandwitch

Less CUs need less bandwitch.
 
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Shmunter

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You understand that the slow and fast pools are the on the same bus and you can only access one at a time right? and if you access the slow pool you lock the entire bus.
I’d say it’s too high a concept for some. There are people out that that have no idea how things work. Even if you explain with pictures it’s likely to go over their heads., Just have to roll with it and engage in stimulating conversation, not talking to potato’s.
 
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Deto

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Is English your second language? You seem to have a issue understanding what I wrote.
The AVERAGE bandwidth when you include both the 10GB at 560GB/s and the 3.5GB at 336GB/s is 502GB/s. So the 10GB at 560 is so much faster then the PS5s, that even when you factor in the 3.5GB of slower RAM, the XSX can still handle more data through the memory than the PS5 can.
If you still have an issue understanding it, let me know and I will break down into smaller syllables for you.
more CUs => more bandwitch


What matters is a bandwitch/CUs

PS5:

448/36 = 12,4GB/s per CU

xbox, best case (560GB/s)

560/52 = 10,7GB;s per CU

worst case (336GB/s)

336/52 = 6,4GB/s LOL

PS5 unified >>>> SX split



PS5 memory >>>>>>>> SX memory.

xbox SX sucks in terms of memory


You don’t know how math works, no?

10 * 560 + 6GB * 336 = 7616
7616 / 16 = 476 GB/s average.

The 16GB RAM of Xbox has an average of 476GB/s.
He doesn't know anything, but he has an opinion on everything.
 
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Jonsoncao

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All you guys' math are wrong...

If the rate is given, computing the average rate should be harmonic average not arithmetic average...

All these cringey posts schooling other cannot figure out junior high school math...

Average rate = (# of GB totally transferred through RAM)/(the time it needs)
 

-kb-

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All you guys' math are wrong...

If the rate is given, computing the average rate should be harmonic average not arithmetic average...

All these cringey posts schooling other cannot figure out junior high school math...

Average rate = (# of GB totally transferred through RAM)/(the time it needs)
The problem is that gets hard due to contention and the different access rates to different pools.
 

Thavash

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Speaking of NX , what do you think Nintendo is thinking now seeing all this unfold ? Anyone think that they;ll get back into the "proper" console fold ?
 

FranXico

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That's because Cern's presentation was aimed at devs and this is meant for laymen.
They changed up the presentation a bit for general public. Surely those embarrassing damage control bits were added. That's not something suitable for GDC.
 

FranXico

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Which damage control?
BTW the PS4 GDC presentations was very similar.
36 RDNA2 CUs = 58 PS4 CUs
"Please ignore TFs and CU counts!"

That's not interesting to industry professionals. Sounded an awful lot like damage control if you ask me.
 
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