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NX will launch in March 2017 globally, won't be at E3 (focusing on Zelda instead)
- Thread starter guit3457
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I don't want to make this thread a war of quotes or something. You're right, OK? You are perfect and make only rational decisions and posts. Fine? I'll stop here.
Spieler Eins
Member
An iPod equivalent in the gaming world would be another Wiimote-level gimmick. But then again, even Wii was (despite revisionisms) kickstarted by a strong E3 in which Nintendo has ,,beaten" Sony/MS. And they most likely don't have another gimmick that compelling. They need to get core gamers back first (and even the bare minimum of Nintendo fans they had with GCN/N64) and this E3 stunt only hurts them in that goal.
I forgot Splatoon, which was indeed one of very few occasions in the last 5 years, in which some kind of consumer communication was felt from Nintendo. But no matter what happens, there's no scenario in which skipping E3 isn't crippling them. If NX is good and their upcoming events are (surprisingly) strong too, there still would no reason for it. It's only further damaging their already broken image in public for several months, while PS4Neo and VR will gain all the mindshare without competition. If NX is shit, delaying the unveiling won't save them either.
ReyVGM
Member
I'll wave, in march, when we're both in line buying the NX + Zelda bundle.
I'm not saying NX will achieve an iPod level success. You were arguing that an E3 showing for NX is somehow the only way major interest in a product can be generated. Apple is the most culturally well-known example of this being categorically false, but there are several others that can be pointed to.
And this is without discussing how E3 was a trade show with absolutely no visibility to consumers for several years, and console makers announced hardware whenever they saw fit to, yet interest in video games somehow didn't suffer in spite of that, that people bought consoles and hardware on their merits and the timing of an announcement had so much less bearing than the content of said announcement.
And so what if you trot out my quotes? If I made an irrational decision as you suggest, that's quite clearly my mistake. I'm not going to blame Nintendo (or anyone else, for that matter) for my expectations not being met when I was clearly the one who made them without waiting for the reality of the situation to play itself out. The only one implying I never make a bad decision is you... for some reason that I can't fully comprehend. So again, thanks for proving my point.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
I didn't know it was indie at the time. It was featured heavily in promotional stuff at the beginning of the PS4's life.
Mithos
Member
Mario, Zelda, Metroid. I will end up not having a single one of them because..
3D World, not my kind of Mario (were hoping for 64, Sunshine, Galaxy-ish), Metroid nowhere to be seen, Zelda NX.
Ninja Scooter
Member
What is this?
Rösti;202363589 said:
I had never seen that video. I have to admit it was rather awesome.
But remember, Apple had Jobs; he was God Tier as far as getting that company back on track. Not sure Nintendo has anyone near that level. Not to say it can't happen but Nintendo certainly has their work cut out for them.
I'm in agreement though, if they do a good show for NX some other time it could obviously work for them....assuming the press get out of bed to go to it.
it's going to be a digital event isn't it? 
But remember, Apple had Jobs; he was God Tier as far as getting that company back on track. Not sure Nintendo has anyone near that level. Not to say it can't happen but Nintendo certainly has their work cut out for them.
I'm in agreement though, if they do a good show for NX some other time it could obviously work for them....assuming the press get out of bed to go to it.it's going to be a digital event isn't it?
In 1998, Jobs' effectiveness was not yet proven, he was merely a name that was familiar to the press and shareholders; they wanted him to do something great, but they had nothing to base that optimism on. That optimism wasn't proven valid until AFTER the iMac and the iPod saw success.
Aaronrules380
Member
Galaxy is way closer to 3D world than 64 tbh
Spieler Eins
Member
It's not the only way to generate interest. But it's the proven way and neglecting it has no logical advantage, especially if they are honest about the march release. In particular since other new hardware is also released this year. The negative reception of this news across the internet has already shown that it's a bad idea. Nintendo is the clear market loser right now and this move inherently makes people question whether something's wrong with NX or its games, or that they might not even be confident enough to show it off against a PS4 revision. They already lost their goodwill ever since WiiU and this decision is just adding fuel to the fire. A strong E3 showing (if NX is good) on the other hand would have been a relatively stressless way to start repairing their public reception... Now they need to pull off spectacular marketing/fan communication later this year, which they haven't done in quite a long time.
This is not even about Nintendo, it's about how wrong is calling others stupid for acting in similar ways like you. No, calling yourself stupid too doesn't make it better. That's all.
ReyVGM
Member
While I personally am not big on having the NX skip E3, I do agree about doing the initial reveal away from E3 (but I would have preferred it to be before E3, not afterwards). The fact that the PS4K & VR will be at E3 will take away the spotlight form Nintendo, something that they'll definitely be susceptible to due to their rapidly-decreasing market-share. Revealing the NX Platform on their own terms would ensure that Nintendo has zero competition. This way, Nintendo would dominate the headlines no matter what, while they would have competed with the PS4K for headlines had they done the initial reveal at E3.
Mithos
Member
64, Sunshine, Galaxy, "free 360 degree camera", no timer on levels (except on very specific once), the end.
Saucycarpdog
Member
Can Nintendo fans please stop comparing Nintendo to Apple? It makes zero sense and seems like a desperate argument to make it sound like Nintendo can somehow enjoy huge success with the mainstream audience simply because Apple did so.
A few points:
There have been quite a few "proven" ways to market products. And one of them is, in fact, at separate events outside of your industry's main press junket.
Several industries do this all the time. In fact, it is considered accepted wisdom by some in marketing that it is better to isolate yourself from your competitors for major product announcements, so that you can monopolize media attention.
Even Sony and Microsoft did this when they held events prior to E3 to discuss their new hardware, knowing full well that they would be at E3 with the hardware anyways: they wanted all eyes on them as much as possible and gave a shit-load of information, with E3 left to the finite details like games, the price and the shape of the box they were selling. The key talking points were already discussed and could not be drowned out, with the exception of a single "gotcha" moment that Sony used to capitalize on their competitor's mis-steps and gain further exposure.
The negative reception to the news is among people who wanted to know what it was sooner rather than later and put all their chips into finding out what NX was at E3. That expectation did not meet with reality. Shucks-darn.
PS4K/Neo/whatever name it's going by this week and Xbox 1.5 aren't confirmed to release in Q4 yet.
Actually, the whole chain of discussion was about how wrong it is to purchase a product based on an expectation that hasn't materialized and then blame someone else for your mistake, which you quite clearly disagreed with. But OK, you can move that goalpost, I won't stop you.
Yeah, Apple circa 1998 was due for an explosive amount of success at any moment. Pretending like Apple was always destined to be successful as a counter-argument comes off as no more or less desperate. And I'm not implying that Nintendo will become equivalent to Apple, merely challenging that bucking conventionality doesn't automatically equal failure. I could talk about how this happens in other industries, but bringing up Apple is done because it's a well-known corporate history that doesn't require re-iteration. "Know your audience" and all that.
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
If Nintendo is going to have a live press conference in conjunction with E3, it would make sense to have it 06.00 or 07.00 PM PDT on June 13 at Dolby Theatre in Los Angeles due to this: http://www.dolbytheatre.com/events/details/the_legend_of_zelda
An hour long press conference for The Legend of Zelda for Wii U and the 30th anniversary of The Legend of Zelda I think could be just right. We do not know yet what time and date Sony will have its press conference, the most recent years they have held it at just 06.00 PM the day before E3 begins, so this suggestion could very well coincide with that and cause issues (for viewers/press anyway). But again, it would make sense for Nintendo to do something like that.
An hour long press conference for The Legend of Zelda for Wii U and the 30th anniversary of The Legend of Zelda I think could be just right. We do not know yet what time and date Sony will have its press conference, the most recent years they have held it at just 06.00 PM the day before E3 begins, so this suggestion could very well coincide with that and cause issues (for viewers/press anyway). But again, it would make sense for Nintendo to do something like that.
This distinction is true in terms of categorizing the games based on functional aspects.
I would argue though that 64 and Sunshine belong in their own category for themselves, while Galaxy and 3D World are lumped together simply based on game feel. The former I feel are adventure games, especially given the open nature of the levels and the mission based star structure.
They're more like sandbox platformers too because you can tackle something in different ways whereas in the other two games the path is linear and usually there's only one "correct" solution to progress. This is compounded by the fact that powerups like the fire flower are time based in Galaxy, essentially this is made to prevent you from taking it to a section of the game that wasn't designed with it in mind. So the latter have levels that the designer intended for you to experience in a specific and predetermined way, while the SM64 style the gameplay is more freeform, you have much more power to choose your way through the game and how you experience it.
Nintendo knows what they're doing. Zelda blowout, then their E3 will have the longest tail in history, all while having already heavily featured the NX killer app. Kimishima, Reggie, and Miyamoto will be hounded for answers at every opportunity for months right up until launch. Because Nintendo.
Spieler Eins
Member
PS4K/VR aren't going away after E3. In fact, they'll have a big lead in mindshare whenever NX is revealed. So Nintendo's day in the spotlight won't have much meaning. However, this narrative shows the problem to begin with. People expect so little of Nintendo nowdays, they think their next platform isn't even good enough to compete with a revision at E3. A revision that's still rumoured and not received that well. So E3 would have been a very good opportunity to compete and also prove their negative reception wrong. In front of a bigger audience than they'll have later - at E3 the entire industry watches, it'll always have more viewers. The actual meaty parts about X1/PS4 also were at the E3 conferences, not at the isolated events. Considering the effect of Sony's last conferences, the E3 also still has a certain prestige, no matter how hard certain people want to deny it. The new hardware by Sony/MS this year will be much easier established now that Nintendo's decided to twiddle their thumbs when everyone's watching/expecting their alternative at the start of the race. They're waiting until the race is half over and for some reson expecting the masses to still care about a late starter at that point (i.e. when VR is on people's christmas wish list while NX naturally wasn't ever able to be considered for a purchase a little later).
vr is going to be a minimum $500 spend for most people. if you don't have a ps4, it's $800-$900. i don't think it's going to be super entrenched or take off like people expect. instead, i would consider it to be the modern day equivalent of the sega cd: a good, important step in the industry, but ultimately a pioneer project for developers to take their lumps on before it's refined heavily in the next iteration a few years from now.
Saucycarpdog
Member
Are you even reading before posting? Where did I make the argument that Apple was "destined" to be successful? I said you Nintendo fans have no argument to support these comparisons between the two.
"Bucking conventionality" also doesn't mean success. So how about we see what Nintendo has that "bucks the trend" before we compare it to one of the most successful companies in history since that's a really big stretch, k?
Know what audience? If anything, the Wii U has shown Nintendo doesn't know it's audience.
Uhh, I didn't make a product comparison, I made a marketing comparison. And never stated that bucking conventional marketing trends was a guarantee of anything. NX's success or failure will be entirely on the merits of the product. And again, Apple wasn't even "one of the most successful companies in history" even with the iMac launch back in '98, not by a long shot. But it did begin the LONG crawl out of irrelevance, and didn't have to adhere to conventional marketing wisdom to do it.
Comparing Apple circa 1998 does not equate it to Apple now. There is a parallel that can be drawn, especially when discussing how to market a new product when faced with declining mindshare. But because Apple is a success, that apparently automatically disqualifies the comparison, under the assumption that 1998 Apple was equally incomparable, as though their rise back to relevance was somehow pre-ordained. It wasn't. It was a calculated move to hold an event separate from everyone else in the industry to announce what was clearly a flagship product.
And the "know your audience" statement was in relation to how everyone in this specific forum knows Apple's history and why it is used as an example. Not sure what tangent you're on.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
PS4K will be a blip on the radar. It's an incremental upgrade that plays the exact same games and outputs a resolution that only affects an incredibly small number of consumers. The vast majority of consumers won't care about the fps or minor graphical upgrade. I don't really see how it would affect NX in the least, unless you're referring to a subsequent PS4 price cut, which would could spur sales.
PSVR, though, will be the big thing this holiday. That's going to be massive if marketed right.
StrapOnFetus
Banned
This, but I would also argue, that the PSVR will not sell gangbusters, it might sell well. But there is a difference between selling well and selling like a defining product that changes everything... As far as VR goes, yea someday it might be mainstream, but thus far, it has been a gimmick and not penetrated the market on a scale that would make it common place.
I think Sony is gonna lose money, there R/D cost might not or might barely break even short term, long term....we will see. They might make some money, but not much, they are thinking long term, but after that. They might drop it.
The PS4k like you said, I am willing to bet, will cater to the niche, as the huge install base that already has a PS4 might feel they are solid with what they have. I mean, that is the reality.
Sure, i remember CoD. I also remember Project Cars and loads of other games that got announced regardles of them getting made or not, well in advance. I also remember the unprecedented partnership reel for WiiU before it was even released. So, it's not like 3rd party games getting announced well in advance and before launch is some completely unthinkable concept for Nintendo. Whether or not that means they get made is an entirely different issue ofcourse. It also doesn't have to be an official announcement. Just a dev mentioning they intend to release it "for all three consoles" or "Nintendo's next platform" in an interview. Anything goes.
Dark Cloud
Member
Wow it looks like Mega Win Casino Slots might move from Wii U to #NX!
https://mynintendonews.com/2016/05/...x-instead-of-wii-u-due-to-performance-issues/
Lol
https://mynintendonews.com/2016/05/...x-instead-of-wii-u-due-to-performance-issues/
Lol
GhostTrick
Banned
I expect a lot of indie games to do the shift. Especially crowdfunded one. I'd be surprised if Yooka-Laylee or Bloodstained gets released on Wii U aswell.
perfectchaos007
Member
Yeah but I mean, it's a slot game that probably wouldn't benefit much from the extra horsepower of the NX. And I'm sure you would be able to play it on both Wii U and NX just like you can buy DSi games on your 3DS
As long as they either didn't promise to give Wii U codes as backer rewards, or are willing to give refunds, I think that's a good thing.
I wonder what will happen with 90s Arcade Racer.
Hyper Light Drifter will almost definitely make the switch, as well, so long as NX is a platform that has tools in Game Maker Studio.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
I think a mix-up at the foundry is very plausible. If it's anything like PS4 and XB1, these are similar APU designs and humans do make errors. I 100 percent believe that poster's friend, but we don't know the extent to which any mix-up would actually be responsible for the delay, lasting a long enough period to set everything back. After all, Nintendo is saying the March 2017 date is to get software in place. If it were just production difficulties and not software, I doubt they'd have hid it and shifted the reason onto themselves. That's just a guess though since we most likely will never know that much about the foundry mix up.
I'm not 100% sold on this fabrication snafu, but if it were factual, they would likely be open to libel suits if it turned out to be a fab error that could be compensated for and they publicly shamed a supplier. Heck, even if it were totally provable to be justification for a delay that we don't even know actually happened, it probably still opens them up to libel charges. Typically, corporations like to not air such dirty laundry outside of court proceedings when money is involved.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
IIRC Sega cited vague production difficulties for the Dreamcast in 1998 and Sony in 2006 ( for the PS3), each for the limited quantities at their respective releases, as well as the PS3's delay until March 2007 in PAL regions. That's all they'd need to say to investors as the reason for the delay, and I think they would have said that. No specifics. A lot of things can cause production issues, but maybe Nintendo doesn't care to use that reason, I don't know. At the end of the day the desire to have adequate software ready for launch makes sense anyways.
What if there is no mention at all at E3 from the 3rd parties? We play again the game of "Is there any chance that we get this game?" like with Wii U?
I wouldn't count on that either to be honest, as XB1 has clearly shown people doesn't seem to care *that* much about backwards compatibility, neither physical nor digital stuff-related.
Here on GAF of course you're more likely to see totally different reactions about the lack (or presence) of b/c, but I'd argue in the grand scheme of things it's probably a non-factor as well.
There is no delay of NX, not publically, and thus they probably do not want to convey a feeling of "something went wrong" as opposed to "we want to release it here because we think that's the best". It would be different if there had been a launch date previously announced (assuming there are production difficulties, which I'm still doubtful of).
D
Deleted member 465307
Unconfirmed Member
Very good points. It is important to say "We are doing a positive thing" rather than "We wanted to do this other thing because that's the better option but now can't, so we're settling for second best." With all the assumptions that NX was coming in 2016, it can be hard to remember that Nintendo never said when it would launch and there is no delay to our knowledge.
MatrixMan.EXE
Member
Agreed, PS4K shouldn't be an issue for NX. Why? Because PS4 OG already is. They'll be releasing NX into a generation already underway, by which time the PS4 will have an even more sophisticated library of games and be at an install base of between 45-50m, maybe more. And with PS4K coming, I fully expect a price cut too.
PSVR? Maybe. We'll see. But either way, there is no good time for NX to be released. PS4 isn't going to stop selling gangbusters just because NX has released after all.
What nintendo should do (imo) is release a small teaser of the next 3D mario at the end of the world championship (of they still do that).
A 20 second clip.
It wouldn't show anything about NX as a platform, but would let the internet speculate and create some hype for the next few months especially if it looks great/unique/has something special going for it.
It also has to be mario, because it's the only thing mainstream press will care about.
A 20 second clip.
It wouldn't show anything about NX as a platform, but would let the internet speculate and create some hype for the next few months especially if it looks great/unique/has something special going for it.
It also has to be mario, because it's the only thing mainstream press will care about.
This game will be played regardless of what does(or doesn't) get announced at E3.
I wonder as well, but not only because of WiiU / NX :/
Same, honestly I picked up the PS4 version of Yooka-Laylee since I feared the Wii U would be pretty much dead in term of first party support at the time of release (= almost no reason to boot up the console), but if they are kind enough to let us change to NX I won't hesitate, at worst I'm going to double dip.
Dark Cloud
Member
There's no guarantee there's going to be a NWC and there's no way they would show a NX title that we don't know about. We have to take them at face value when they say there's no NX at E3.
Well, in that case, clearly Nintendo is
DOOOOMEDDD
What else do you suggest? Talking only about the one game we do know is getting made for NX: Zelda?
Bringing "Nintendo is doomed" in a discussion that talks about other points is a sign of lack of arguments and it is also rude. It's not even funny or smart in the context of the discussion.
NX might not get any Western 3rd party games and still be somehow successful if it's appealing to customers.
As about what we can talk, this is what Nintendo provides as information, this is what we can talk about. Mostly just speculation.
Dark Cloud
Member
I just watched The Jungle Book and Zootopia. Both were great movies. Now people say Nintendo is like Disney, but I feel like Nintendo is more like Pixar.
Disney is doing all types of movies that a for kids or kids movies with adult themes. They have movies like Pirates of the Carribean. I want Nintendo to be like Disney. Disney does it right with quality and much variety and themes.
Disney is doing all types of movies that a for kids or kids movies with adult themes. They have movies like Pirates of the Carribean. I want Nintendo to be like Disney. Disney does it right with quality and much variety and themes.
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