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[Md Ray]

Which sources? Anonymous people claiming that they've heard it from anonymous devs, like NXGamer is now saying he has? Show us some receipts - that's all I'm asking for from NXGamer. Stop speculating.

Michael isn't lying here. Even Richard from DF said the same thing. When he spoke to devs about Xbox, he was told they are having problems with the dev environment due to moving away from XDK to GDK and they aren't happy about it. This is essentially what Michael is also hearing from devs when he spoke to three devs about it.

This is what Richard and even Alex from DF had to say about PS5's dev environment:

Every single developer I've spoken to developing for PS5 has been evangelising how easy it is to work for, It's essentially the same development environment as PS4 and you scale up from there, for the new powers, the features and whatnot. I can't stress enough how happy developers seem to be with this situation.

Similar things Michael is also hearing in regards to PS5. As he said in one of his posts on this thread. Why get upset when both DF & NX are confirming the exact same thing? It's a fact that devs are happy about PS dev environment and not with Xbox. At least some of them.

All this drama from you was pretty unnecessary and could have been avoided if you hadn't let your emotions get in the way.

 

[Herr Edgy]

The guy is supposedly a dev with 20 years of experience and still behaves like a 10 year old fanboy. Something tells me he might be exaggerating a bit.

Man, it's easy to become fed up with people here spewing tons of bullshit and acting knowledgable.

Basic example: The actual thread/video title alone is already borderline stupid (if this is addressed in the video, great).
People here think the term API is synonymous with DirectX, Vulkan or OpenGL. It's a basic and extremely general umbrella term and people use it wrongly already.

Even most game devs have virtually NO experience or knowledge on that matter, because game dev is a huge field and consists of more than rendering or computing.

I wrote a basic graphics engine using Blinn-Phong, cubemaps, Fresnel on the PS Vita. I wrote a Vulkan application for Windows implementing Cascaded Shadow Mapping.
I wrote a DXT texture compression program compressing an image using CUDA computing.

I could not answer the question posed in the title, at all, due to the bazillion variables that come into play. Only specialized and advanced graphics programmers can do that. Yet here we are, getting basic terminology wrong.

Most people in this thread 'discussing' are the 10 year old fanboys, hidden by the fact that this has become the new normal, so any kind of actual criticism is seen as rude.

 

[NXGamer]

That's exactly why you can't compare different APIs performance. You can't really separate an API from the code path it's using, even on the same engine, because you don't know if both code paths, just before doing the API calls, are equivalent in performance.
At most you could say that an engine using X API is fastest than the same engine using Y API, but that doesn't tell you anything about each API to be able to compare them.

I know, I state this in the video about 5 times. I specifically say that this is NOT about X being better than Y.

This is showing that development and Game development is full of many, many factors and when people say it is "CPU" or "GPU" it is a high level point and NEVER just one thing.

This was information with backing up date to prove my point NOT, repeat NOT an API A is better than API B. I am pretty sure though I made that VERY CLEAR in the video for anyone wishing to watch.

 

[FeiRR]

This is correct. When threads are merged in this way, the original (oldest timestamped) is kept and the subsequent one 'absorbed'. So post #4 was reported as a duplicate, merged and then appeared inline at the relevant timestamp. We're not emotionally involved with any threads, influencers or creators so 'Technobabble' is not really something we consider as necessary to 'man the pumps' for, nor are we so insecure that we think technobabble is a slight to our understanding of API's and other such tech terms. Remember, it is yourself that chooses to take offence.

A mod chose to merge threads leaving the title as it was, which says a lot about moderation's attitude towards factual analysis. You (as a forum) pretend to be a place where people can exchange factual opinion about gaming topics, whereas, in fact, you encourage trolling and drive-by stupidity. Also your comment about "emotional involvement" and a funny gif (at least in your opinion) is just an extension of the whole idea.

I was verbally abused many times by you or other mods, being called "childish" and schooled to "grow up". I was banned for stating facts in speculation topics because those facts were not to your liking, while many trolls get away with blatant FUD and drivel, not to mention personal insults to respectable industry professionals.

I'm probably much older than most posters and mods here and I had moderated computer community forums before many of you were born. Thus, keep your smirk comments and displays of illusory power for your anger management therapist (which I hope you have). I don't care who you are and what you think. You're really bad at your job and it'll bite this community back one day. Until then, have fun and remember to post some gifs. I hope they make you feel smart.

Meanwhile, I request removal of my account.

 

[Jose92]

A mod chose to merge threads leaving the title as it was, which says a lot about moderation's attitude towards factual analysis. You (as a forum) pretend to be a place where people can exchange factual opinion about gaming topics, whereas, in fact, you encourage trolling and drive-by stupidity. Also your comment about "emotional involvement" and a funny gif (at least in your opinion) is just an extension of the whole idea.

I was verbally abused many times by you or other mods, being called "childish" and schooled to "grow up". I was banned for stating facts in speculation topics because those facts were not to your liking, while many trolls get away with blatant FUD and drivel, not to mention personal insults to respectable industry professionals.

I'm probably much older than most posters and mods here and I had moderated computer community forums before many of you were born. Thus, keep your smirk comments and displays of illusory power for your anger management therapist (which I hope you have). I don't care who you are and what you think. You're really bad at your job and it'll bite this community back one day. Until then, have fun and remember to post some gifs. I hope they make you feel smart.

Meanwhile, I request removal of my account.

Do you know that NxGamer Has technobabble in his video title, this was a series made to discuss certain technologies behind next gen and gaming design. Your whole post is a joke, and also grow some skin Banter here and there is not bad.

 

[Resenge]

A mod chose to merge threads leaving the title as it was, which says a lot about moderation's attitude towards factual analysis. You (as a forum) pretend to be a place where people can exchange factual opinion about gaming topics, whereas, in fact, you encourage trolling and drive-by stupidity. Also your comment about "emotional involvement" and a funny gif (at least in your opinion) is just an extension of the whole idea.

I was verbally abused many times by you or other mods, being called "childish" and schooled to "grow up". I was banned for stating facts in speculation topics because those facts were not to your liking, while many trolls get away with blatant FUD and drivel, not to mention personal insults to respectable industry professionals.

I'm probably much older than most posters and mods here and I had moderated computer community forums before many of you were born. Thus, keep your smirk comments and displays of illusory power for your anger management therapist (which I hope you have). I don't care who you are and what you think. You're really bad at your job and it'll bite this community back one day. Until then, have fun and remember to post some gifs. I hope they make you feel smart.

Meanwhile, I request removal of my account.

The title of the post is the exact title of the video, the op just copied the title of the video and used it to title the post. You are looking for an argument.

 

[NXGamer]

To be clear, a post has been removed because the tone was not one of honest discussion. It was completely out of whack with the nature of the thread until that point, which had many comments and reports. There is a chance here to have an open and frank discussion rather than use it as a public bout. The post was removed and the user asked to adjust the tone and attitude, but still raise the same points as they were relevant. It is not the intention to pilllory any one user, but simply nudge the thread in the right direction. We are not here to be stop creators, influencers or industry analysts/professionals being questioned or having their credentials/legitimacy put under the microscope - however we do ask those conversations are held in good faith and with the intent of enriching the level of general knowledge.


It is pretty common for questions of bias to arise from such discussions, and all we ask is the animosity (or your own bias) is left at the kerbside while these unfold. Unfortunately some creators/outlets have chosen to no longer post here in light of some of these discussions, and while there is a case to be made for 'toughening up', there is also some onus on the community to not use the outreach of these creators, as an extension of points scoring in the insular console wars that happen here on a daily basis.

 

[DGrayson]

A mod chose to merge threads leaving the title as it was, which says a lot about moderation's attitude towards factual analysis. You (as a forum) pretend to be a place where people can exchange factual opinion about gaming topics, whereas, in fact, you encourage trolling and drive-by stupidity. Also your comment about "emotional involvement" and a funny gif (at least in your opinion) is just an extension of the whole idea.

I was verbally abused many times by you or other mods, being called "childish" and schooled to "grow up". I was banned for stating facts in speculation topics because those facts were not to your liking, while many trolls get away with blatant FUD and drivel, not to mention personal insults to respectable industry professionals.

I'm probably much older than most posters and mods here and I had moderated computer community forums before many of you were born. Thus, keep your smirk comments and displays of illusory power for your anger management therapist (which I hope you have). I don't care who you are and what you think. You're really bad at your job and it'll bite this community back one day. Until then, have fun and remember to post some gifs. I hope they make you feel smart.

Meanwhile, I request removal of my account.

Peace!

 

[NXGamer]

Do you know that NxGamer Has technobabble in his video title, this was a series made to discuss certain technologies behind next gen and gaming design. Your whole post is a joke, and also grow some skin Banter here and there is not bad.

Yeah agreed, it's a play on Babelfish from Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy, nothing more and just a joke.

I wish some would lighten up on this, humour is a big part of my life, it has to be. If you take things too seriously you will go mad, boring or both.

 

[ethomaz]

Ah, so you work on Web apps and in Azure.

How are you finding the resource allocation and SSIS Tier levels within your cost budget.

Which Dev repository are you using now and what applications/technology are you migrating?

Which VM's are you using to host your service, which Overheads are you looking to remove with Azure as apposed to On-Prem solutions?

It is weird his comment because the goal of Azure is not even about the best performance and lower overhead.

Azure advantages are in the always online (multiples servers for availability), flexibility to change your “power” on the fly (you can easily increase CPU and RAM at Christmas season for example) and cost... it is what a typical Cloud solution gives you.

In terms of performance and lower overhead the goal of Azure will never allow it to match a dedicated server with specific software write for it.

 

[NXGamer]

It is weird his comment because the goal of Azure is not even about the best performance and lower overhead.

Azure advantages are in the always online (multiples servers for availability), flexibility to change your “power” on the fly (you can easily increase CPU and RAM at Christmas season for example) and cost... it is what a typical Cloud solution gives you.

In terms of performance and lower overhead the goal of Azure will never allow it to match a dedicated server with specific software write for it.

Exactly the reason for my post, Azure is many things, with the commercial space at least, performant is not one of them.

 

[Razvedka]

Scalability and reliability are the point of the cloud, with zero initial investment into the significant overhead costs of acquiring the pertinent hardware, the physical space to store them and the staff/expertise to maintain it all. The Cloud can be peformant, or at least AWS (I cannot speak for Azure) but you're definitely going to pay for that kind of grunt and there's no beating physics where latency is concerned.

I'm also a web app developer with cloud experience (AWS specifically) and, per what others have stated in this thread so far, I dont enjoy doing work on Windows. Even if I am forced to use it at home out of necessity given my gaming hobby. Linux is where it's at for actual productivity beyond things like Microsoft Office, but even then there are options on Linux. Ignoring the other litany of reasons for this fact, I can point to one single technology as a pretty compelling justification: containers*. That is a crucial technology today which is pretty much only ubiquitous for Linux based operating systems. Windows has struggled greatly trying to bring containers to their platform, albeit this changing (for the better!).

With respect to APIs, I share NX's opinion that they are absolutely critical to reaching the theoretical performance of the hardware itself. Thicker or obtuse APIs lead to inferior results, and to give the devil his due here Microsoft has a much taller hill to climb because they are crafting theirs (DX12U) to work on their entire windows platform so I gather. This is very different than the more narrowed, specialized, focus that Sony must contend with.

My 2 cents.


*Though I suspect the game is about to change in a big way due to Web Assembly. Buckle up boys the next 5 years are gonna be a wild ride.

 

[DustQueen]

Good API can be crucial.

Half of what made all this "impossible" Switch ports happen is API Nvidia provided.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

A mod chose to merge threads leaving the title as it was, which says a lot about moderation's attitude towards factual analysis. You (as a forum) pretend to be a place where people can exchange factual opinion about gaming topics, whereas, in fact, you encourage trolling and drive-by stupidity. Also your comment about "emotional involvement" and a funny gif (at least in your opinion) is just an extension of the whole idea.

I was verbally abused many times by you or other mods, being called "childish" and schooled to "grow up". I was banned for stating facts in speculation topics because those facts were not to your liking, while many trolls get away with blatant FUD and drivel, not to mention personal insults to respectable industry professionals.

I'm probably much older than most posters and mods here and I had moderated computer community forums before many of you were born. Thus, keep your smirk comments and displays of illusory power for your anger management therapist (which I hope you have). I don't care who you are and what you think. You're really bad at your job and it'll bite this community back one day. Until then, have fun and remember to post some gifs. I hope they make you feel smart.

Meanwhile, I request removal of my account.

A good service to the forum. Check out his post history. Total fan warrior.

 

[GenericUser]

I'm by no means an expert, but isn't opengl on the same level as direct x (as far as functions and their performance goes)? I think microsoft just adds 3 extra thick layers of corporate talk bs on top to make direct x sound more fancy.

 

[Kazekage1981]

they just released direct x 12 ultimate...

i wonder what direct x 13 will be like...

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

I'd love to try it Nvidia's RTX I/O, although there are no current games that would require it sadly. Guess we'll see in the future.

 

[ethomaz]

I'm by no means an expert, but isn't opengl on the same level as direct x (as far as functions and their performance goes)? I think microsoft just adds 3 extra thick layers of corporate talk bs on top to make direct x sound more fancy.

It was in the past... today I don't think so.
The development slowed down when most of the key developers migrated to the proposal of Vulkan.

Vulkan today is more up to date with new techs (including RT) than OpenGL.

The biggest advantage of OpenGL is being open and trully multiplatform (something DirectX is not but claims to be lol) and it has better support for old hardware something that Vulkan doesn't... to put it simple anybody can use, change and ship using OpenGL and it will allow you to run in the most type of platforms.

So in easy terms.

DirectX: the best and most advanced if you are tied to Windows.
OpenGL: the best if you want something multiplaform.
Vulka: the best to take use of modern hardware.

The catch is games are 99% on windows so DirectX is the best option for most.. but these APIs are made to be used outside the game industry too where OpenGL has a big share than DirectX.

If one day the game industry become really multiplatform then DirectX will probably be obsolete because you will need your game running on Windows, BSD, Linux, Android, iOS, etc and DirectX won't allow that.. OpenGL and Vulkan (in a lower extent) does.

 

[Md Ray]

I'd love to try it Nvidia's RTX I/O, although there are no current games that would require it sadly. Guess we'll see in the future.

A game like Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart will be able to put RTX I/O through its paces. Sadly, it won't come to PC.

 

[Nikana]

For what its worth, I heard similar in that the devkits got behind due to progress being halted by the implementation of profiles and scaling. It was not smooth in any fashion.

 

[DonJuanSchlong]

A game like Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart will be able to put RTX I/O through its paces. Sadly, it won't come to PC.

Press X to doubt. We don't have any data throughput numbers to be able to make a claim like that. I doubt direct storage will be out before UE5 demo is released on PC, which I'm sure anyone can see where I'm going with this....

 

[GenericUser]

It was in the past... today I don't think so.
The development slowed down when most of the key developers migrated to the proposal of Vulkan.

Vulkan today is more up to date with new techs (including RT) than OpenGL.

The biggest advantage of OpenGL is being open and trully multiplatform (something DirectX is not but claims to be lol) and it has better support for old hardware something that Vulkan doesn't... to put it simple anybody can use, change and ship using OpenGL and it will allow you to run in the most type of platforms.

So in easy terms.

DirectX: the best and most advanced if you are tied to Windows.
OpenGL: the best if you want something multiplaform.
Vulka: the best to take use of modern hardware.

The catch is games are 99% on windows so DirectX is the best option for most.. but these APIs are made to be used outside the game industry too where OpenGL has a big share than DirectX.

If one day the game industry become really multiplatform then DirectX will probably be obsolete because you will need your game running on Windows, BSD, Linux, Android, iOS, etc and DirectX won't allow that.. OpenGL and Vulkan (in a lower extent) does.

I did a few google requests and it *seems* as if sony is still using gnm as their low level API. That thing has been around since the PS3 days. I would love to read some snippets of the documentation or even see a code example, but it seems as if everything is hidden behind their dev-network and devs can't talk openly about it because of the NDA. Shame.

Would be pretty interesting to see what the PS5 really uses. Vulcan could be a thing, or they've been updating their own libraries. Anyway, it seems as if sony is very capable of writing their own apis. But microsoft - being a software company after all - is probably even better at that then sony.

 

[pyrocro]

Exactly the reason for my post, Azure is many things, with the commercial space at least, performant is not one of them.

not a fine comment at all.
poor form all around.

 

[StormCell]

As someone who has really enjoyed Nintendo Switch, I can easily say with confidence that good API's are very important. I don't think the Switch would have near the support or comparability with current-gen software without Nvidia's driver and api support. Most look at the Switch and see a very low-powered device, but Nvidia made the claim that they had invested so many hundreds of hours producing custom support for the hardware -- which I think was misunderstood initially to mean building a custom chip when in fact I believe they invested a ton of developer hours building APIs to aid developers in getting full use of the hardware.

The less work required to get a game up and running on a new platform, the much more likely it is to see a multi-platform release. That's the power of good APIs.

 

[NXGamer]

not a fine comment at all.
poor form all around.

Why?

 

[pyrocro]

Why?

what part of it is not performant?

 

[ethomaz]

I did a few google requests and it *seems* as if sony is still using gnm as their low level API. That thing has been around since the PS3 days. I would love to read some snippets of the documentation or even see a code example, but it seems as if everything is hidden behind their dev-network and devs can't talk openly about it because of the NDA. Shame.

Would be pretty interesting to see what the PS5 really uses. Vulcan could be a thing, or they've been updating their own libraries. Anyway, it seems as if sony is very capable of writing their own apis. But microsoft - being a software company after all - is probably even better at that then sony.

Sony uses the same name for their PS API in every console.
That doesn't mean it is the same API because it has the specifics calls that each console hardware has... and it is way different from each other (except PS4 and PS5 that are more close in terms of hardware level).

PS5 uses GNM as main API and the fact it shares a lot in common with PS4 hardware made the work easy not requiring a rewrite of the API like they did from PS3 to PS4 for example.

The actual names are LibGNM (low level) and LibGNMX (higher level).

 

[Vae_Victis]

im not trying to gatekeep the subject. Thing is, this hobby of gaming, its weird in this way. In every other field on the planet, you go to film school, you go to journalism school, you go to engineering school and so on if you want to work in a specific field. In gaming, although apparently being the biggest entertainment field, a 20 years student between classes that writes his feelings on a game is a journalist and can cost a company its bonus if its tied to the metacritic score. Our hardware press are average joes that likes this particular aspect, they started a youtube channel and are running ingame bencharks and posting the results. They're the hardware guys. And out technical experta in games are people that maybe flip burgers at mcdonalds during the day but they read 2 articles from google about graphics rendering and are passionate about it so they become doint tech analysis.

I would love to have accurate analysis in the manner which i explained, but alas, it must be like this, lot of guess work and broad generalisations.

This might come as a shock you, but studying to be a movie critic and studying to be a movie maker are not the same thing. There is not this single place you call "film school" where you learn "films", it's a lot more complicated than that. Even on the movie-making side of things alone, you have completely different jobs (screenwriter, director, director of photography, editor, cameraman, actor, set designers etc.) that require completely different sets of skills and often almost completely different curricula.

But that aside, there is in fact a pretty huge disconnect between people working in the industry and people criticizing/studying cinema, especially on the academic front. I studied history of art at University, including quite a lot of cinema history and analysis (what you could say one would need to be a movie critic), and barely any of the teachers had even set foot inside a real movie set.

 

[caffeware]

Most studios are using UE4 or equivalent.
Do they even need to tinker with APIs directly nowadays?

 

[AgentP]

I love the bar chart illustrating how much API makes a difference, Dx11 vs Dx12. The performance is almost the same

 

[VFXVeteran]

Wow. I'm simply stunned at the talking here. It reminds me of my own threads and arguments with the Sony fans, except I don't have a mod to clean up the insults and issue warnings. You guys are really digging at NXGamer and I don't like it. Xbox fans or not, I hate when people disrespect professionals in the industry. It shouldn't be allowed at all from either side. You can clearly disagree and talk without resorting to insults and shit like that.

Xbox fans, sorry to say but I agree with NXGamer . There IS something wrong with the DX12U API for the Xbox. I have a very very good hunch as to that being the case due to the lack of games being shown by literally every 3rd party developer out there. It's not that the API isn't ready, it's that there is something going on with it and it could be any number of things. What we do know is that it's not limited to one game. It's across every game. The industry isn't going to tell you which is shitty tbh, but that's how business goes. I'm skeptical about both systems and what they claim to bring to the table in Nov.

If you are going to disagree with us insiders here, that's fine. But don't go there with what we know or bringing up old shit to discredit us to make others view us negatively to join your team. That's' even more ridiculous and unacceptable.

Sorry NXGamer for the rough responses here. I feel embarrassed.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

As someone who doesn't understand what's being discussed I'm inclined to believe NX's side simply because the arguments against him seem so disrespectful and lacking in substance. For all I know he's flagrantly wrong, I don't really understand this stuff, but as far as debate skills go the people arguing with him should bone up on that.

 

[Kenpachii]

Are there any sources that say xbox api is resulting in worse performing than what the PS5 api does?

I find it hard to believe the xbox has a api that is not capable to address the hardware fully and in the same manner that of the PS5. After all multicore coding is already here for a gen on consoles.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Are there any sources that say xbox api is resulting in worse performing than what the PS5 api does?

I find it hard to believe the xbox has a api that is not capable to address the hardware fully and in the same manner that of the PS5. After all multicore coding is already here for a gen on consoles.

It's not performance. It could just be broken.

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

Damn, this thread.... NXGamer countered hard on those unjustly attacking him, like an injured animal backed into a corner, silly socks had to run from the thread, couldn't answer the grilling he himself brought upon himself.

Can't add much about api's but common sense and reality tells us xbox is behind in many areas. They are just not prepared at all for next gen.

I mean its mad, weeks from launch and the lack of gameplay running is unbelievable.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Damn, this thread.... NXGamer countered hard on those unjustly attacking him, like an injured animal backed into a corner, silly socks had to run from the thread, couldn't answer the grilling he himself brought upon himself.

Let's not go there. He most certainly backed off because of the warnings he received.

Can't add much about api's but common sense and reality tells us xbox is behind in many areas. They are just not prepared at all for next gen.

I don't think that's the case and I don't think NX is saying that either. I think something is just broken that requires time to patch up.

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

Let's not go there. He most certainly backed off because of the warnings he received.



I don't think that's the case and I don't think NX is saying that either. I think something is just broken that requires time to patch up.

I thought the mods said he was warned but could carry on but in the correct tone etc. He then chose to leave after not being able to answer, or so it looked like.

Anyway, have followed nxgamer for many years and seems a genuine guy Knowledgeable, honest and good content.

The attacks were unnecessary but got rebutted.

Well api's is one area where there seems issues and games releasing for launch is another area they are behind in. As soon as halo went they had nothing else, unless they are going surprise us all last minute.

Thats 2 areas so I think what I said is fair.

 

[MrFunSocks]

Damn, this thread.... NXGamer countered hard on those unjustly attacking him, like an injured animal backed into a corner, silly socks had to run from the thread, couldn't answer the grilling he himself brought upon himself.

Like I said, I got posts deleted and was warned.

What exactly couldn't I answer? What resources I'm using in Azure? That has nothing at all to do with the actual topic, it was some weird attempt to derail the thread by NXGamer, I'm assuming to try and discredit me.

NXGamer failed to answer a single question I asked of him. I said straight up that "anonymous sources" and "various devs have told me" does not count, because it's a copout. It doesn't prove anything. It doesn't back up any claims. That's what he came back with.

Does NXGamer have access to either dev kit?

Does NXGamer work in the video game industry?

Does NXGamer do anything other than analyze videos that other people with access to the games make?

How is NXGamer comparing the performance of similarly functioning APIs on both PS5 and XSX to conclude that Microsofts are worse? Which APIs are they, are they ones to get the location of an enemy? To calculate LOD? To calculate ray tracing? Which ones? What is the performance difference? How is this being measured? Can you confirm the APIs are doing the exact same things, and one isn't doing more behind the scenes than the other?

The answer to all of those is no and he doesn't know. He won't answer them though. He has no proof whatsoever that Microsofts APIs are either less performant, broken, or unfinished. None whatsoever.

Oh right, "anonymous devs", silly me.

Peace out. Probably get banned for 2 weeks like I was told now but oh well, I'll take it because this place is just FUD central lately. Hopefully when the consoles come out and my ban is up and we're actually playing them and seeing that multiplatform games are not having massive problems on Series X some more of the FUD will be cleared up, like the "xbox overheats!" one has been.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Well api's is one area where there seems issues and games releasing for launch is another area they are behind in. As soon as halo went they had nothing else, unless they are going surprise us all last minute.

I think the games are behind because devs can't produce with a broken API. This directly affects putting out anything tbf.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Like I said, I got posts deleted and was warned.

What exactly couldn't I answer? What resources I'm using in Azure? That has nothing at all to do with the actual topic, it was some weird attempt to derail the thread by NXGamer, I'm assuming to try and discredit me.

NXGamer failed to answer a single question I asked of him. I said straight up that "anonymous sources" and "various devs have told me" does not count, because it's a copout. It doesn't prove anything. It doesn't back up any claims. That's what he came back with.

Does NXGamer have access to either dev kit?

Does NXGamer work in the video game industry?

Does NXGamer do anything other than analyze videos that other people with access to the games make?

How is NXGamer comparing the performance of similarly functioning APIs on both PS5 and XSX to conclude that Microsofts are worse? Which APIs are they, are they ones to get the location of an enemy? To calculate LOD? To calculate ray tracing? Which ones? What is the performance difference? How is this being measured? Can you confirm the APIs are doing the exact same things, and one isn't doing more behind the scenes than the other?

The answer to all of those is no and he doesn't know. He won't answer them though. He has no proof whatsoever that Microsofts APIs are either less performant, broken, or unfinished. None whatsoever.

Oh right, "anonymous devs", silly me.

Peace out. Probably get banned for 2 weeks like I was told now but oh well, I'll take it because this place is just FUD central lately. Hopefully when the consoles come out and my ban is up and we're actually playing them and seeing that multiplatform games are not having massive problems on Series X some more of the FUD will be cleared up, like the "xbox overheats!" one has been.

Didn't he specifically say he doesn't know for sure?

"I can't prove this, but this is what I think is going on"

"you're wrong, prove you're right"

"I said I can't prove it"

"haha, I am the winner!"

Really stellar stuff. You might want to like your own posts, no one else will.

 

[The Shift]

Didn't he specifically say he doesn't know for sure?

"I can't prove this, but this is what I think is going on"

"you're wrong, prove you're right"

"I said I can't prove it"

"haha, I am the winner!"

Really stellar stuff. You might want to like your own posts, no one else will.

I think MrFunSocks is just wanting something based on reported facts rather than:

Rumour:

noun

1. a currently circulating story or report of uncertain or doubtful truth.

verb

1. be circulated as an unverified account.

..and/or:

Conjecture:

noun

1. an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.

verb

1. form an opinion or supposition about (something) on the basis of incomplete information.

Does the forum have thread tags for these terms? It would probably be very helpful for the insider/youtuber accounts when posting unverified information or reports based on the above.

Showing proof or hard facts would be a different situation of course.

 

[carloseduardocd]

Xbox fans, sorry to say but I agree with NXGamer . There IS something wrong with the DX12U API for the Xbox. I have a very very good hunch as to that being the case due to the lack of games being shown by literally every 3rd party developer out there. It's not that the API isn't ready, it's that there is something going on with it and it could be any number of things. What we do know is that it's not limited to one game. It's across every game. The industry isn't going to tell you which is shitty tbh, but that's how business goes. I'm skeptical about both systems and what they claim to bring to the table in Nov.

Digital Foundry guys reported something about change XDK to GDK, not all devs happy about. Maybe GDK wasn't ready in time for studios because some DX12U problems. I really don't know.I apreciatte If you could clarify more evidences.

And if this is true, the launch games like Dirt 5 are using same Xbox One SDK or something like? This could explain a lot about Xbox Series X versions, something like a Xbox One game with resolution/fps enhanceds on Xbox Series X.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

I think MrFunSocks is just wanting something based on reported facts rather than:

Rumour:

noun

1. a currently circulating story or report of uncertain or doubtful truth.

verb

1. be circulated as an unverified account.

..and/or:

Conjecture:

noun

1. an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information.

verb

1. form an opinion or supposition about (something) on the basis of incomplete information.

Does the forum have thread tags for these terms? It would probably be very helpful for the insider/youtuber accounts when posting unverified information or reports based on the above.

Showing proof or hard facts would be a different situation of course.

So, you didn't watch the video? What percentage of that video is rumor? Most the video is informative about how this stuff works. NXGamer also didn't create the thread, the thread tags weren't up to him. Also, MrFunSocks language speaks more to me of someone attempting to shut down another person's attempt at theorizing about something based on their personal knowledge, it has an authoritative as well as acerbic tone to it and the worst of his posts even got deleted for it. He was given lengthy responses he never engaged, instead whinging about how his worst post got deleted and he was told to change his tone. If he wants information based on reported facts why even engage this discussion? It's more than clear his purpose in the thread is some weird form of damage control but considering most people find his presence in here more harm to his arguments than good it's definitely not working. And again, please watch the videos entire threads are about before commenting.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Damn, this thread.... NXGamer countered hard on those unjustly attacking him, like an injured animal backed into a corner, silly socks had to run from the thread, couldn't answer the grilling he himself brought upon himself.

Can't add much about api's but common sense and reality tells us xbox is behind in many areas. They are just not prepared at all for next gen.

I mean its mad, weeks from launch and the lack of gameplay running is unbelievable.

I think NX just answered, I am not sure about this tabloid like “countered hard like a backed animal” .

 

[The Shift]

So, you didn't watch the video? What percentage of that video is rumor? Most the video is informative about how this stuff works. NXGamer also didn't create the thread, the thread tags weren't up to him. Also, MrFunSocks language speaks more to me of someone attempting to shut down another person's attempt at theorizing about something based on their personal knowledge, it has an authoritative as well as acerbic tone to it and the worst of his posts even got deleted for it. He was given lengthy responses he never engaged, instead whinging about how his worst post got deleted and he was told to change his tone. If he wants information based on reported facts why even engage this discussion? It's more than clear his purpose in the thread is some weird form of damage control but considering most people find his presence in here more harm to his arguments than good it's definitely not working. And again, please watch the videos entire threads are about before commenting.

Put you PhD in narrative building away for a sec - I was commenting more broadly on the assertion that YouTube influencers, or thread content composed around videos provided by such parties should be marked with the appropriate tag/s. I can't check the tags as I have never had thread making privileges so I can't view them . From memory I think there is a 'Rumor' tag but nothing was applied to this thread. Same goes for DF threads too. As for NXGamer content - he is broadly known to be very pro Playstation - that's fine but it does cast doubt over anything he says regarding Microsoft/Xbox. Additionally - the Jeff Bell like '..what's your contribution to society' style retorts should be wound back - it's a bad look.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Put you PhD in narrative building away for a sec - I was commenting more broadly on the assertion that YouTube influencers, or thread content composed around videos provided by such parties should be marked with the appropriate tag/s. I can't check the tags as I have never had thread making privileges so I can't view them . From memory I think there is a 'Rumor' tag but nothing was applied to this thread. Same goes for DF threads too. As for NXGamer content - he is broadly known to be very pro Playstation - that's fine but it does cast doubt over anything he says regarding Microsoft/Xbox. Additionally - the Jeff Bell like '..what's your contribution to society' style retorts should be wound back - it's a bad look.

You want to talk bad looks while defending MrFunSocks input in the thread? The majority of the video has nothing to do with rumors, but if you want a mod to fix the thread tags you can request that, they've done it before. Your comment about him being pro-Playstation rings as true as saying DF are broadly pro-Microsoft in their threads, we're not interested in every thread about either entity devolving into console wars and having to redo the same tired arguments, both have been critical of the side they allegedly are for, both have been praise-worthy of the side they're allegedly against, both are far more subtle about their biases than the average person posting here, as well.

 

[The Shift]

You want to talk bad looks while defending MrFunSocks input in the thread? The majority of the video has nothing to do with rumors, but if you want a mod to fix the thread tags you can request that, they've done it before. Your comment about him being pro-Playstation rings as true as saying DF are broadly pro-Microsoft in their threads, we're not interested in every thread about either entity devolving into console wars and having to redo the same tired arguments, both have been critical of the side they allegedly are for, both have been praise-worthy of the side they're allegedly against, both are far more subtle about their biases than the average person posting here, as well.

I do think DF are biased simply because MS brings them in on hardware reveals. If Sony provided the same access I'm sure that bias would be far more equitable. It's all good - Ihave no qualms with any of these parties being pro-product they happen to like. Just don't be ambiguous about it.

 

[J_Gamer.exe]

I think the games are behind because devs can't produce with a broken API. This directly affects putting out anything tbf.

Thats not the only reason. Some games will only come out in 2021 or 2022. Thats not the api thats poor planning to not have games ready at the start of the next gen. Of course issues with an api can push a game back.

But some of them seem only in a very easy state, relying on just CGI trailers. Ever wild was still deciding what the game was going to be for eg. Avowed 2022, Fable 2023 etc etc.

 

[NXGamer]

what part of it is not performant?

Having worked within it for many a year, the performance for basic stuff such as DB Updates and Commits, Network Socket throttling, Tenant restrictions.

YOU can get much better performance on some areas, but it is all Tier related and is the benefit and curse of Remote solutions. You will rarely get the performance from a mid tier VM than a decent local sever for example. The entire structure is built around Async EVERYTHING at all times which means you have to change drastic parts of your code, use App related accounts and service accounts (which is good practise) unless you just hit the throttles on the environment to manage the resource.

Some areas you have hard locks on Action limits and even here you cannot just buy past it.

Like ALL things it is a compromise but moving to Azure has good an bad points and by and large ease and scale is its strongest, sheer throughput and performance is not..always.

Like I said, I got posts deleted and was warned.

What exactly couldn't I answer? What resources I'm using in Azure? That has nothing at all to do with the actual topic, it was some weird attempt to derail the thread by NXGamer, I'm assuming to try and discredit me.

NXGamer failed to answer a single question I asked of him. I said straight up that "anonymous sources" and "various devs have told me" does not count, because it's a copout. It doesn't prove anything. It doesn't back up any claims. That's what he came back with.

Does NXGamer have access to either dev kit?

Does NXGamer work in the video game industry?

Does NXGamer do anything other than analyze videos that other people with access to the games make?

How is NXGamer comparing the performance of similarly functioning APIs on both PS5 and XSX to conclude that Microsofts are worse? Which APIs are they, are they ones to get the location of an enemy? To calculate LOD? To calculate ray tracing? Which ones? What is the performance difference? How is this being measured? Can you confirm the APIs are doing the exact same things, and one isn't doing more behind the scenes than the other?

The answer to all of those is no and he doesn't know. He won't answer them though. He has no proof whatsoever that Microsofts APIs are either less performant, broken, or unfinished. None whatsoever.

Oh right, "anonymous devs", silly me.

Peace out. Probably get banned for 2 weeks like I was told now but oh well, I'll take it because this place is just FUD central lately. Hopefully when the consoles come out and my ban is up and we're actually playing them and seeing that multiplatform games are not having massive problems on Series X some more of the FUD will be cleared up, like the "xbox overheats!" one has been.

Just stop man, you are avoiding all things answered by me and asked of you. You are close minded on this subject so lets leave it here.

Put you PhD in narrative building away for a sec - I was commenting more broadly on the assertion that YouTube influencers, or thread content composed around videos provided by such parties should be marked with the appropriate tag/s. I can't check the tags as I have never had thread making privileges so I can't view them . From memory I think there is a 'Rumor' tag but nothing was applied to this thread. Same goes for DF threads too. As for NXGamer content - he is broadly known to be very pro Playstation - that's fine but it does cast doubt over anything he says regarding Microsoft/Xbox. Additionally - the Jeff Bell like '..what's your contribution to society' style retorts should be wound back - it's a bad look.

I am "Known" by whom? where? Can I see this register of knowledge alongside this "Rumour" tag rule also please?

 

[The Shift]

I am "Known" by whom? where? Can I see this register of knowledge alongside this "Rumour" tag rule also please?

The forum implemented thread tags a while ago - you can see them in the titles. I don't know if there a usage rules implied for them though. As for you being a Playstation guy - what's the issue with that? I'm not denigrating or bismirching your reputation. If I desired to know some bridging information regarding Playstation I would definitely check out your channel but I would take your content regarding MS/Xbox with a grain of salt. It's probably wise to be accepting of doubts and criticisms when being a public commentator, I hope that's ok with you.