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NXGamer - The TFlops are a lie

ethomaz

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Could a Series X have 56 CU 96 or 128 ROPS, if you add another 32 like you see with 40 CU count , otherwise you are limited ...
In theory yes it can... to be fair it almost impossible to it has less than that.
RDNA cards out today have 2 cluster of CUs with 20 CUs each and total of 32ROPs.

An hypothetical Xtower with 56CUs will have at least 3 cluster of CUs... that means at least 96 ROPs.
That if the RDNA ROPs is tied to the cluster of CUs like GCN.

The issue here is that 56CUs doesn't match 3 cluster of CUs.
If you have 18CUs in each cluster then you have 54CUs... not 56.
If you have 19CUs in each cluster then you have 58CUs... not 56.

Xtower probably needs 4 cluster of CUs to reach 56CUs... that menas 14CUs per cluster.
4 cluster using the actual RDNA config found in their desktop cards means 128 ROPs.

That is why I don't believe in some people saying Xtower has 56CUs because it doesn't fit in 3 clusters.

That is how RDNA looks with 2 Clusters (it is called Shader Engine) and 40CUs looks like:

 
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psorcerer

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For all the people who have problem watching a highly technical video but do not miss any crap that DF puts out evar.
TL;DR teraflops cannot wholly describe the performance of a modern GPU, because there are other numbers that are equally important.
Key points from the video:
1. GPU can have a lot of bottlenecks, which prevents it from using the computational power.
2. Some bottlenecks are so severe (ROP limited, bandwidth limited) that no amount of tflops can overcome them.
3. PC GPUs (read: Nvidia) are usually more bottlenecked than console ones, purely because there is no base-line where the optimal configuration can be evaluated (just for the bad reading comprehension folks: it doesn't mean that these GPUs are worse performing).
 

sinnergy

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If that’s true 96 ROPs at 1.6 MHz Series X would stil beat 64 ROPs at 2Ghz PS5 if Sony ships with that ROP count. Unless Sony added more ROPs to the 40 CU design, interesting stuff.
 
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Kazekage1981

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Any card with more TFs will be better.
Pascal will be better with more TFs.
Vega will be better with more TFs.

Thelastword is biased to AMD so he always try to makes AMD cards better than it is but what he said I think it is right.
Vega is more powerful than Pascal.
Vega has more TFs than Pascal.
Vega does Compute Tasks better than Pascal.
Vega is less efficient in 3D render than Pascal.
Pascal does 3D Render better than Vega.
Ok so for games, the net goal for both consoles: Xfridge and PS5 is to display 4K at 60fps. If PS5 can do it with less TFLOPS (assuming 9.2TFLOPS) due to its efficiencies, would it make it almost like nvidia pascal analogy? Would this also not have an effect in another important role of driving the price of the console down like to say $399? Versus Xfridge is mostly about raw power like vega with 12.2 TFLOPS? Not to say Microsoft is totally negligent in improving effecencies.

Like the negaf member who commented on the other thread, Microsoft has been more vocal about 'power' versus sony has been more vocal about 'ssd drive and balance'
 

ethomaz

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Ok so for games, the net goal for both consoles: Xfridge and PS5 is to display 4K at 60fps. If PS5 can do it with less TFLOPS (assuming 9.2TFLOPS) due to its efficiencies, would it make it almost like nvidia pascal analogy? Would this also not have an effect in another important role of driving the price of the console down like to say $399? Versus Xfridge is mostly about raw power like vega with 12.2 TFLOPS? Not to say Microsoft is totally negligent in improving effecencies.

Like the negaf member who commented on the other thread, Microsoft has been more vocal about 'power' versus sony has been more vocal about 'ssd drive and balance'
If one is using RDNA and the other RDNA 2.0 I can believe in difference in efficiency to Render 3D.
But if both are using RDNA why do you believe PS5's GPU will be more efficient than Xtower's GPU? Using the same hardware means who has more TFs will have more power to waste with render 3D graphics.

I understand your point but it is more related with different architecture hardware and not the same like the PS5 and Xtower case.

About the price yes the size of the chip is close related with the price of the final product... a 9.2TFs APU will be smaller than a 12TFs APU and that will drive the price lower.

MS is being vocal about power imo part because they think they successed with Xbox One X and their 6TFs marketing part because they think it was power that make their lose to PS4 in 2013.

MS marketing will either be "most powerful console ever made" or "most powerful Xbox ever made".
 
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Kazekage1981

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If one is using RDNA and the other RDNA 2.0 I can believe in difference in efficiency to Render 3D.
But if both are using RDNA why do you believe PS5's GPU will be more efficient than Xtower's GPU? Using the same hardware means who has more TFs will have more power to waste with render 3D graphics.

I understand your point but it is more related with different architecture hardware and not the same like the PS5 and Xtower case.

About the price yes the size of the chip is close related with the price of the final product... a 9.2TFs APU will be smaller than a 12TFs APU and that will drive the price lower.

MS is being vocal about power imo part because they think they successed with Xbox One X and their 6TFs marketing part because they think it was power that make their lose to PS4 in 2013.
You are right! If both are using RDNA, then the one with the most TFLOP does win! So if PS5 is 9.2 TFLOP and XFridge has 12.2 TFLOP with the same zen 2, gddr6, hardware based raytracing. Now it makes sense!
So back to this:

B) Lets say PS5 is 9.2 TFLOPS and Xsex is 12.2 TFLOPS, but PS5 has MORE pixel fillrate, texture fillrate, slightly more CPU speed, slightly higher GPU speed, which console would be better?

Most people answered XFridge!
 

Clear

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The essential truth that NX is saying is that any system can only move with the efficiency of its slowest part. FLOPS (floating point operations) are *part of*, not the totality of the rasterization pipeline, so using them as a global indicator of performance is potentially misleading.

So yes, saying "the flops are a lie" is accurate and on-point, and any other reading is just people projecting their insecurities and ignorance.
 

NXGamer

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If one is using RDNA and the other RDNA 2.0 I can believe in difference in efficiency to Render 3D.
But if both are using RDNA why do you believe PS5's GPU will be more efficient than Xtower's GPU? Using the same hardware means who has more TFs will have more power to waste with render 3D graphics.

I understand your point but it is more related with different architecture hardware and not the same like the PS5 and Xtower case.

About the price yes the size of the chip is close related with the price of the final product... a 9.2TFs APU will be smaller than a 12TFs APU and that will drive the price lower.

MS is being vocal about power imo part because they think they successed with Xbox One X and their 6TFs marketing part because they think it was power that make their lose to PS4 in 2013.

MS marketing will either be "most powerful console ever made" or "most powerful Xbox ever made".
What if the PS5 is tied to half the Bandwidth?
 

Dlacy13g

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Tflops are the equivalent of Horsepower figures in cars. They are great for marketing purposes but the figure alone can't convey actual performance. You can have tons of horsepower in a car but if all the other parts of the car are garbage and not set up properly then at best you have a car that can go fast in a straight line but even that will be in question if the actual car can't handle the horsepower. Tflops indicate some good performance potential but the rest of the system needs to be set up properly otherwise all that potential is wasted.
 

Journey

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What happened with PS4 vs Xbox One? was the 1.84 vs 1.21 teraflop advantage a lie? I mean the PS4 actually has more ROPs and uses GDDR5 ram for faster bandwidth. Had we not known anything about the insides of Xbox One and PS4 and started of this article saying: "The Tflops are a lie!", it would clearly sound like I'm trying to defend Xbox One, would it not?
 

Md Ray

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Flops is actually a mensure metric... not a lie.
It is equal for any hardware since compute hardware was created.

Saying flops is a lie is like saying km/h or mph is a lie lol

That left me with the question if the owner of the video knows what flops is lol

Maybe he could start saying some hardware uses the flops power better than others... that is actually true because the complexity of the workloads in a hardware they canuse the full power of their flops all the time and so they trend to variate giving a performance different for each hardware.

But the flops continue there...

So if two hardware had 10TFs the one that most efficiently use that power is the better hardware.... in that case actually nVidia is killing in hardware efficiency.
You say my analogy is wrong just shows you don't understand the subject...

Two cars have max speeds at 180mph.
The two reach these max speeds the same way? Nope.
That makes these max speeds of 180mph a lie? Nope.

You can use Horse Power (HP) if you wish... it will be the same as analogy.

Your video titles is extreme out of place.
I will explain again...

Flops is a metric and it is not a lie... it is a useful metric.
Now if you want to say two different hardware use it flops in different ways, or better for the analogy, two different hardwares reach that flops in different ways.
So why the false title?
The video title just try to spread the bullshit claim that "AMD flops are different from nVidia flops".
Flops are the same for AMD and nVidia... it is a metric, it a fixed metric, it is not 1 for AMD and 2 for nVidia... it is equal for both.

How the hardware efficiently uses these flops, and that includes all the parts of the hardware, is what delivery the final performance.
First both are using the same hardware so the efficiency in both machines at least in GPU level will be pretty close.
Second the comparison is being made due the unconfirmed 9TFs PS5 vs 12TFs Xtower... that different is power is big to the point that even if the Xtower is a hell of inefficient to use its flops it will still have the advantage.

A 12TFs Xtower machine will delivery better graphical games than 9TFs PS5... PS5 can have the edge in art design in some games but in graphic render it will be below what MS have.

So why spread a lie in a video? Makes more uneducated gamers become more uneducated?
That is a lie because there are equal.... it is a fixed metric.
I believe people won't watch videos with titles they know is making a false claim.
I did not watch.
Yeap the title being a false claim is just me being uninformed and based in assumptions lol

What a joke :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy: :messenger_tears_of_joy:

You can make a video reasonable and on spot but the title like this will still be a false claim.... a lie.
No matter what you show in your video will make TFlops a lie.
In both cases Xtower will probably have the advantage.
The video title exactly do that.
A lie to spread misinformation.

Make an accurate title next time ;)

Edit - It is not personal to you... anybody that makes that claim will happen the same because the claim is just a lie... it is unsustainable.
I can ask a lot....

Why did you lied in the title?

I can watch all videos since the tittle is not a lie.... that makes my second question... why should I watch a video with a lie in the title?
You and a bunch of others commenting without even watching the video are fucking assholes.
 

Md Ray

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What happened with PS4 vs Xbox One? was the 1.84 vs 1.21 teraflop advantage a lie? I mean the PS4 actually has more ROPs and uses GDDR5 ram for faster bandwidth. Had we not known anything about the insides of Xbox One and PS4 and started of this article saying: "The Tflops are a lie!", it would clearly sound like I'm trying to defend Xbox One, would it not?
Did you even watch the video?
 
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NXGamer

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What happened with PS4 vs Xbox One? was the 1.84 vs 1.21 teraflop advantage a lie? I mean the PS4 actually has more ROPs and uses GDDR5 ram for faster bandwidth. Had we not known anything about the insides of Xbox One and PS4 and started of this article saying: "The Tflops are a lie!", it would clearly sound like I'm trying to defend Xbox One, would it not?
No, and I think I need to be clear here..again. This has nothing to do with PS5 or S1X, this is just a subject that has come up and I thought a good piece to discuss as it is high in people minds.

Let's imagine that the X1 was the 1.84Tflop machine and the PS4 was 1.3. Then lets leave all the other issues as they are, lower bandwidth, ROPS, TMUS, Slower RAM and split, much, much worse API and OS allocation. Weaker Libs and much higher Overhead of CPU control for the X.

The paper gap would have been much smaller, the entire reason the gap was so big was the Floating Point throughput AND the other issues. The PS4 was just better in all areas, thus the game looked bigger than the ~40% it was due to that, again the same point.
 
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Clear

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TFs are not a lie.. They are a measure of the theoretical floating-point performance of a GPU.
TFs as an absolute metric of performance.. is.. and thus saying higher TFs means higher performance... is a lie.

That's all that needs to be said.
TF's an absolute metric of an aspect of performance not the totality. Its like talking exclusively about BHP and ignoring torque.
 
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ethomaz

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You and a bunch of others commenting without even watching the video are fucking assholes.
The title is false so nothing can make it true lol
Watch or not the video won't change that.
It is a false claim.
 
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Kazekage1981

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No, and I think I need to be clear here..again. This has nothing to do with PS5 or S1X, this is just a subject that has come up and I thought a good piece to discuss as it is high in people minds.

Let's imagine that the X1 was the 1.84Tflop machine and the PS4 was 1.3. Then lets leave all the other issues as they are, lower bandwidth, ROPS, TMUS, Slower RAM and split, much, much worse API and OS allocation. Weaker Libs and much higher Overhead of CPU control for the X.

The paper gap would have been much smaller, the entire reason the gap was so big was the Floating Point throughput AND the other issues. The PS4 was just better in all areas, thus the game looked bigger than the ~40% it was due to that, again the same point.
This time, the fragmentation, gap and disparities are now just gone. Is TFLOPS the only metric which would be the tipping scale for PS5 and Xfridge? Considering all things being equal between both of them.
If TFLOP is like horsepower, then is this like comparing 2 muscle cars except both engines are made by the same manufacturer (AMD) ? Would you only care about the horsepower on how fast it can go overall (TFLOPS), or will you care about other things: hybrid vs gas vs hydrogen vs solar (TDP), how fast it can reach a certain speed (SSD drive), suspension handeling, torque, brakes, tires, etc (uh graphic components)?
 
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ethomaz

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What if the PS5 is tied to half the Bandwidth?
GPU will probably be bottlenecked by the memory and probably the framerate will suffer and texture will have lower quality.
Except for the low quality textures the 3D graphics rendered will be about the same or if you have more power you can render better 3D models or apply more effects to it.

Said that when you work exclusive for a consoles hardware devs can specifically avoid bootlenecks for that hardware... something that devs doing a PC game can't do because there is tons of different hardwares in our houses.
 
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Kenpachii

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Watched it a bit couldn't sit through this for 30 minutes.

Testing a nvidia gpu versus a amd gpu is kinda pointless. Anybody knows this, Nvidia tflops are different from AMD as they use different architectures this is well known. Tflops from nvidia are only interesting towards nvidia products.

This makes the video kinda rough to watch entirely because the point he tries to make is useless.

Tflops is used to see what a card performs against the one before it and that's why nvidia and amd pushes it.

Tflops are not a lie as they are a indication of performance specially when u talk about ps5 vs xbox series x.

Also comparing pc games vs console games even while u don't know the settings of said console is also laughable at best to draw conclusions out of it.

Terrible video.
 
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Clear

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The title is false so nothing can make it true lol
Watch or not the video won't change that.
It is a false claim.
Its absolutely, empirically true. The video proves the point, and there's absolutely nothing you can offer to contradict it.

As to the whole Nvidia vs AMD thing, all NX's examples show AMD versus AMD parts! It doesn't factor into what he is saying in any way.

Seriously, the ignorance on display here is dismaying, If you don't know what a FLOP is and also understand how that factors into data rasteriziation, you really ought to shut up and learn.
 
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ethomaz

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Its absolutely, empirically true. The video proves the point, and there's absolutely nothing you can offer to contradict it.

As to the whole Nvidia vs AMD thing, all NX's examples show AMD versus AMD parts! It doesn't factor into what he is saying in any way.

Seriously, the ignorance on display here is dismaying, If you don't know what a FLOP is and also understand how that factors into data rasteriziation, you really ought to shut up and learn.
Do you know there is no way to prove a lie to be true lol

"The TFLOPS are a lie" is a false claim no matter what you try to prove lol
 
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Journey

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Did you even watch the video?

Yes.

Maybe you're not understanding my point. A video that starts off by saying it's fitting to discuss what Teraflops actually mean, and to mention purchasing decisions, he's specifically targeting PS5 and XSX which is the hot topic right now. We know it's not about just about Teraflops when we have to account for other factors like ROPs and bottlenecks, but we know that since Xbox One X, MS has done away with the ESRAM approach and I don't see them going back. Looking at their planned box, it also looks like they're going with something that's consuming more power than a traditional console, so with that form factor, why would anyone assume less ROPs or less bandwidth via slower clocks?

Also, using a PC running numbers vs a console vs is silly when we will be comparing console vs console where both multi-platform games will be highly optimized for both closed platforms compared to how it will run on PC.

Lastly, 750 TI has a different architecture than what's in Xbox One S and only has 2GB of ram, needed to draw Ram from the system when it runs out of VRAM.

So my point? this video will just confuse console gamers trying to make a choice between Xbox Series X vs PS5.

Leaving people to assume the Teraflop difference rumored (12TF vs 9) will be made up by the following:

A) PS5 architecture will be more advanced than XSX (hint: they'll likely be the same)
B) PS5 will have more ROPs than XSX (Highly unlikely, more likely XSX will match or have more given the multi SKU)
C) PS5 will have less bottlenecks (Both will be using GDDR6, much improved CPU and SSD)
D) PS5 will have more RAM (Again unlikely, they will be around the same and GDDR6)

Tune in to 23:50. What is NXGamer trying to talk about?

Here, I'll quote some of it:

"When you get wrapped up talking about hardware, talking about GPUs, consoles performance levels, this is all because is coming out with the... impending PS5 and XSX... it doesn't matter what the Teraflop count is as much as how the overall system is designed, and all the elements together are what the most important part of the machine is"

He's assuming we're not counting all the elements together already. So I disagree, "The Tflops are a lie" is a clickbait title, both systems will be designed very similarly. There is no data or rumors that indicate otherwise. The only thing to debate is whether is a fact that one is 12 and the other is 9. The higher TF machine will be more powerful given a nearly identical setup which we all know they'll have at this point, so damn close that even the SSD idea is the same.
 
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Clear

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Do you know there is no way to prove a lie to be true lol

"The TFLOPS are a lie" is a false claim no matter what you try to prove lol
You seem like the sort who'd use 13amp fuses in all his appliances because "bigger numbers" equals better!

Science wins, you lose.
 
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Kazekage1981

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Actually, its like comparing 2 muscle cars, except the engine manufacturer is also giving you rest of the components: brakes, wheels, in other things in overall car performance, the only difference is the body and appearance: one looks like a fridge, and the other has the potential to look like well,...a box.

From Journey:

"He's assuming we're not counting all the elements together already. So I disagree, "The Tflops are a lie" is a clickbait title, both systems will be designed very similarly. There is no data or rumors that indicate otherwise. The only thing to debate is whether is a fact that one is 12 and the other is 9. The higher TF machine will be more powerful given a nearly identical setup which we all know they'll have at this point, so damn close that even the SSD idea is the same."

I agree its just too close to call. Current consoles are almost exactly the same AMD stuff anyways. There is no denying Xbone X is better than PS4Pro in overall performance. If the 9.2 TFLOPS for PS5 is true, then no matter how much you try to make the other components better (not saying it doesn't help) its not going to help overall with Xfridge being 12.2 TFLOPS.
 
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DynamiteCop!

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Flops is actually a mensure metric... not a lie.
It is equal for any hardware since compute hardware was created.

Saying flops is a lie is like saying km/h or mph is a lie lol

That left me with the question if the owner of the video knows what flops is lol

Maybe he could start saying some hardware uses the flops power better than others... that is actually true because the complexity of the workloads in a hardware they canuse the full power of their flops all the time and so they trend to variate giving a performance different for each hardware.

But the flops continue there...

So if two hardware had 10TFs the one that most efficiently use that power is the better hardware.... in that case actually nVidia is killing in hardware efficiency.
I think he means that it's not a great determination of practical results and there's a lot more to the equation which determine those results.

Take the Xbox One X and PlayStation 4 Pro, on paper the One X has a 43% more powerful GPU than the Pro given the teraflops but what have the practical result been in general? More like 80% given the resolution disparities. Obviously this comes down to a host of other things, the faster CPU, more bandwidth, more available RAM to work with, customizations to both the CPU and GPU but it gives credence that the system as a whole is more important than any one part of it.
 
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Clear

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Actually, its like comparing 2 muscle cars, except the engine manufacturer is also giving you rest of the components: brakes, wheels, in other things in overall car performance, the only difference is the body and appearance: one looks like a fridge, and the other has the potential to look like well,...a box.

From Journey:

"He's assuming we're not counting all the elements together already. So I disagree, "The Tflops are a lie" is a clickbait title, both systems will be designed very similarly. There is no data or rumors that indicate otherwise. The only thing to debate is whether is a fact that one is 12 and the other is 9. The higher TF machine will be more powerful given a nearly identical setup which we all know they'll have at this point, so damn close that even the SSD idea is the same."

I agree its just too close to call. Current consoles are almost exactly the same AMD stuff anyways. There is no denying Xbone X is better than PS4Pro overall performance. If the 9.2 TFLOPS for PS5 is true, then no matter how much you try to make the other components better (not saying it doesn't help) its not going to help overall with Xfridge 12.2 TFLOPS.
You need to consider more about the stuff that isn't on the APU and how it all connects on a system level. Things like external bus-speeds and memory latencies effectively throttle performance. Actual usage efficiency is about making the pipeline run as smoothly as possible, having a surplus of capacity at one point along its length is useless if it ends up stalling because input is less, or bottlenecking because output can only achieved at a slower rate.
 

ethomaz

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I think he means that it's not a great determination of practical results and there's a lot more to the equation which determine those results.

Take the Xbox One X and PlayStation 4 Pro, on paper the One X has a 43% more powerful GPU than the Pro given the teraflops but what have the practical result been in general? More like 80% given the resolution disparities. Obviously this comes down to a host of other things, the faster CPU, more bandwidth, more available RAM to work with but it gives credence that the system as a whole is more important than any one part of it.
That is fine is all... his opinion of subject can be right but who will watch a video when you put a straight up like to people read? I don’t have that curiosity.

TFLOPS are not a lie but fact a measurable metric equal in any hardware.
 
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Musky_Cheese

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I think I get what NX Gamer is trying to say

However I will say anytime you attempt to "put out fanboy fires", you are wasting water.

This is the console wars. If it was made up of sound reasoning, logic, or without conclusion jumping... it would just be a discussion. But it is a console/fanboy war.

And if we are being honest, console wars without the dumb fuckery are boring.
 

Clear

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Nonsense.
The title says is a lie no matter what you think.
The fact you are equating FLOPS with speed shows you don't know what you are talking about.

BHP is the direct analogy to TFLOPs. Something measured in isolation. Speed (mph/kph) is analogous to rasterization rate (ROPs), two different metrics entirely.

As an end user, all that matters is overall performance (the speed analog), conflating that with a fundamental capability of the engine/gpu (BHP/TFLOP rating) is not necessarily instructive.
 
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Musky_Cheese

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The title is incorrect and on top of that reads like demage control because of the rumored specs of PS5 and Xbox SX. I do not want to say that the title of the video does not relate to the contents of the video, but it is plain wrong.
Well if you are determining the video by title alone...

Title makes sense after you watch.

All I can really say.
 
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Bryank75

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Watch the video, i literally explain it within the first minute.

Your analogy to MPH/KPH is wrong, that is a Velocity metric, i.e. an external measurement only possible AFTER an action. such as "How Much can you bench, can only be measured AFTER you lift it". If something is traveling at X MPH/KPH then this is a fact, determined from an external measurement (Speed trap, GPS).
Saying something can travel at 190MPH for example only gives you a single level of metric, what about acceleration, Fuel consumption, handling, braking.

Tflops is a predictive or potential categorised metric that is used to describe a potential of something i.e. BHP is the better analogy as you say this bike has 225BHP it enables you to group it into a category of potential based on multiple factors (Fuel consumption, CC size, Top speed possible etc).

As this test proves, 2 machines with the same Tflop 'Metric" DO NOT peform at the same level.

2 Bikes traveling at 200MPH/KPH are equal, your example is completely out of place, you should have said cake.


EDIT: Reading through the thread it is clear that many posts did not even watch the video, come on guys. I love a discussion but at least listen to what I am saying. YES the title is a headliner grabber, of course I do not make a video for no-one to watch it (I have many already that tick that box). but it is all around the discussion.
Excellent and insightful video, it of course focuses on where we are and have been over the past generation but leaves me very excited for the new consoles.

Hope you can bring us more once they hit the market.
Love your content!
 
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Yoshi

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Well if you are determining the video by title alone...

Title makes sense after you watch.

All I can really say.
NX Gamer has explained how the title should be read in context of the video. It is still incorrect. "FLOPS are not the only measure for the technical prowess of a system and cannot tell the full picture" is not remotely the same as "FLOPS are a lie"
 
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Spukc

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NX Gamer has explained how the title should be read in context of the video. It is still incorrect. "FLOPS are not the only measure for the technical prowess of a system and cannot tell the full picture" is not remotely the same as "FLOPS are a lie"
well said Yoshi
 

Bryank75

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NXGamer NXGamer does great work but I disagree

Power is quantifiable, measurable

Power is power. You want the most you can get, period
I think his point is that "power" cannot be conveyed in one single figure. That to focus on one and not pay attention to balancing the other aspects of the system leads to a less capable solution.

I know we have a lot of PC gamers but it must bee realized how competitive the Consoles have been with gpu's that are much more expensive...
 

Musky_Cheese

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I think his point is that "power" cannot be conveyed in one single figure. That to focus on one and not pay attention to balancing the other aspects of the system leads to a less capable solution.

I know we have a lot of PC gamers but it must bee realized how competitive the Consoles have been with gpu's that are much more expensive...
His argument is that TFlops are the HP of the car world. Or even the line test strength of the fishing world.

I don’t see a problem with the title after seeing the content of the video.
 
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jaysius

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There are so many speculation clickbait 10-20 minute shit time sink ad $$$$$ videos now, the worse one was Digital Foundry... you were supposed to be the chosen one! Now they're just making shit videos like all the rest.
 

Kazekage1981

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You need to consider more about the stuff that isn't on the APU and how it all connects on a system level. Things like external bus-speeds and memory latencies effectively throttle performance. Actual usage efficiency is about making the pipeline run as smoothly as possible, having a surplus of capacity at one point along its length is useless if it ends up stalling because input is less, or bottlenecking because output can only achieved at a slower rate.
Assuming 9.2 TFLOP of PS5 is true, would the PS5 be:

A) neck to neck
B) Slightly better/better
C) inferior

to Xfridge 12.2 TFLOPS, If PS5 is better in all those components that you listed.
 
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Clear

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Assuming 9.2 TFLOP of PS5 is true, would the PS5 be:

A) neck to neck
B) Slightly better/better
C) inferior

to Xfridge 12.2 TFLOPS, If PS5 has better in all those components that you listed.
If you want to compare "leaked" (alleged) specs the difference in bus width on the Series X is potentially a huge difference maker in its favour. Honestly, based purely on that information it should be way faster than PS5, but then again I've never argued that wasn't the case. My main thought was that a SKU with those specs is a far more costly device to manufacture, which when passed on to the consumer in terms of RRP could make it restrictively expensive and as a result unpopular at retail.

As NX points out in his video, this is not about console-war bollocks. Its about misinformed people taking a single metric and conferring significance upon it in terms of overall system performance (or lack thereof) that it doesn't warrant in actuality.
 
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What happened with PS4 vs Xbox One? was the 1.84 vs 1.21 teraflop advantage a lie? I mean the PS4 actually has more ROPs and uses GDDR5 ram for faster bandwidth. Had we not known anything about the insides of Xbox One and PS4 and started of this article saying: "The Tflops are a lie!", it would clearly sound like I'm trying to defend Xbox One, would it not?
Sony made sure that their GPU wasn't bound by anything else, so they could take full advantage of the flops they had available to them - the PS4 is a very well balanced system.
 
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