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NYT: How Trump Came to Enforce a Practice of Separating Migrant Families (Because of Stephen Miller)

oagboghi2

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Apr 15, 2018
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I’m going to go out on a limb here and he say you have absolutely no idea about the impact of illegal immigration in the United States. You seem to have no idea how badly we need young people in the United States to offset an aging population. How desperately we need tax revenue and insurance money from a young healthy Americans. I’d be willing to bet you know nothing about the declining birthrate of the current population.

none of this true. America's birthrate is fine, and we allow in over a million legal immigrants per year. We don't "need" illegal immigration at all. America has a labor surplus. Not a shortage
 

gohepcat

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Panda1

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So what you’re saying is, not only did you not read the article, you didn’t read any of the posts in this thread. Awesome
Oh sorry I did not know that it was not a troll post! If you want to play these stupid games I can too, we have real issues with kids dying! not being put in care facilities and given food. Surely if you care about children of the world you would have been posting and making a lot of noise on the subject of kids atually dying right.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/70/Alan_Kurdi_lifeless_body.jpg?1529228439563
Oh but because they are Mexican they get more priveldge than the rest of the world - well done you racist fucks
 

Sàmban

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Feb 21, 2014
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Heres the thing, what do we do with these people? These kids?

Our own Americans who are impoverished are barely getting by with what limited government assistance we have.
Single mothers, families, are own waiting list for years for housing.
American kids in the "system" are more then our social workers can even keep track of.
American kids barely have enough money in schools for good books, teachers have 30 kids in a class.


So what do we do? We just open the flood gates?


Let's get this straight...

America is great, its AMAZING...But we DONT have a never ending wallet to feed, clothe, house, and educate every immigrant from a poor country.


Facts > Feelings.


I'd LOVE, LOVE an option on tax forms/W-2's for every EVERY "Let them in freely!" bleeding heart
that stated..
"I as a person supporting free flowing immigration allot $100 per-week ($5200 a year) from my salary as well as agree to house a family for 3-5 years."

That's it. You want them, your heart is big enough to look past the facts...then YOU pay for them and YOU house them.


They took a chance, knew the rules, new are government for the last 16 months has publicly said "Turn around" and they said fuck it.

We pass a tax bill that raises taxes on the poor in the long run while cutting taxes for the rich permanently. Additionally, we eliminate many aspects of the safety net intended to help these citizens. We combine that with trashing the aca without a worthwhile replacement, and finally top that with gerrymandering and other nefarious voting restrictions so that most of these people can’t do anything about their situation.

Oh, and we’re also negotiating funding for a stupid wall that most experts say is a giant waste of money and we’re separating families at the border and using that as a bargaining chip while blaming democrats.

Facts > feelings
 
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JORMBO

Darkness no more
Mar 5, 2009
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I voted for Trump. One of the things I like about him is his hard stance on border protection. I believe border security is very important.

I do not agree with the taking of children from their parents when their parents are asylum seekers. They are not breaking a law in these situations. It is done to stop people from flooding into a system we can't process fast enough due to the amount of people. Surely they can come up with a better solution then seperating families.


USCIS is responsible for overseeing the nation’s legal immigration system, which includes adjudicating asylum claims. The agency currently faces a crisis-level backlog of 311,000 pending asylum cases as of Jan. 21, 2018, making the asylum system increasingly vulnerable to fraud and abuse. This backlog has grown by more than 1750 percent over the last five years, and the rate of new asylum applications has more than tripled.

https://www.uscis.gov/news/news-releases/uscis-take-action-address-asylum-backlog
 
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Panda1

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I voted for Trump. One of the things I like about him is his hard stance on border protection. I believe border security is very important.

I do not agree with the taking of children from their parents when their parents are asylum seekers. They are not breaking a law in these situations. It is done to stop people from flooding into a system we can't process fast enough due to the amount of people. Surely they can come up with a better solution then seperating families.




https://www.uscis.gov/news/news-releases/uscis-take-action-address-asylum-backlog


The solution for the crisis is obvious to have border control, but what will be even better is to add to it and make things worse for all the families so they can really stick it to Trump!
 

Panda1

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Jan 12, 2010
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that most experts say is a giant waste of money

When you need to listen to an expert to understand common sense you have failed. Why do you Americas want public healthcare like Europe and free university education yet do not think that every other countries border controls are legit! Its hilarious - you need to read an expert opinion to understand what a wall does! You probably needed expert opinion to tell you Hilary will win the election when every Trump rally was packed and hers were empty! I learnt a long time ago that common sense was not that common, you school systems have failed you heavily.
 

NahaNago

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Aug 29, 2014
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If you break the law your subject to prosecution. What happens to legit Americans when they commit a crime and have children? The kids go into the system.
How are we supposed to put kids into a system who arent American?
It's just a makeshift foster home/orphanage.

Dont want camps...stop breaking the law.

Yeah me and my brother were arguing over this and he was like you should never threaten to separate families and we as America should be better than this but I kind of felt when you break certain laws you can lose your kids even when your a legal citizen so why do illegal immigrants get a free pass. I'm aware that this is a simple but cold view on a rather complex issue with immense ramifications to the family's life.
 

JORMBO

Darkness no more
Mar 5, 2009
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Yeah me and my brother were arguing over this and he was like you should never threaten to separate families and we as America should be better than this but I kind of felt when you break certain laws you can lose your kids even when your a legal citizen so why do illegal immigrants get a free pass. I'm aware that this is a simple but cold view on a rather complex issue with immense ramifications to the family's life.

When people seek asylum they show up at the border, fill out paperwork and wait for their case to be heard. Nothing illegal is happening in these situations. Laws are not broken. What is new is that their kids are being taken and held elsewhere while these people are waiting for their case to be heard.

If a person comes across illegally once it is considered a misdemeanor. Not something worthy of taking a child away from a parent over.

If a person comes across illegally more the once it is considered a felony, which would lead to a child being taken from a parent while the case is processed - simliar to how things would occur for an American citizen.
 

Dunki

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Oct 24, 2017
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So asylum seekers are law breakers?

Put yourself in their shoes. You and your family are seeking asylum due to whatever (let’s say Obama and the deep state has commissioned thugs to harm you and your family). You flee to Canada seeking asylum, your kids (including an infant) are shipped to a tent city and you may never see them again. Your kids have no idea what’s going on.

You see that as right and what you would expect to happen?
They are ilegally entering the country so yes they are breaking the law. You can aslo seek asylum in your country. Here is the thing. You can not just make exceptions for families because this would send a message that they can come here with no problems. The same issue is Europe facing. With the way to lax rules and decisions you made the way free for mass immigration. Because of this families will now think twice trying to pass the border. You have to be strict here no matter what.

If they are doing this in the USA you have already tresspassed and broken the law. If you do it before and do not enter before than its not agaionst the law.
 
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NahaNago

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When people seek asylum they show up at the border, fill out paperwork and wait for their case to be heard. Nothing illegal is happening in these situations. Laws are not broken. What is new is that their kids are being taken and held elsewhere while these people are waiting for their case to be heard.

If a person comes across illegally once it is considered a misdemeanor. Not something worthy of taking a child away from a parent over.

If a person comes across illegally more the once it is considered a felony, which would lead to a child being taken from a parent while the case is processed - simliar to how things would occur for an American citizen.

You've lost me but I'm okay with everything you've said. I would say agree but I'm not knowledgeable on the three country entry options.
 
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zumphry

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You've lost me but I'm okay with everything you've said. I would say agree but I'm not knowledgeable on the three country entry options.

lol

They are ilegally entering the country so yes they are breaking the law. You can aslo seek asylum in your country. Here is the thing. You can not just make exceptions for families because this would send a message that they can come here with no problems. The same issue is Europe facing. With the way to lax rules and decisions you made the way free for mass immigration. Because of this families will now think twice trying to pass the border. You have to be strict here no matter what.

If they are doing this in the USA you have already tresspassed and broken the law. If you do it before and do not enter before than its not agaionst the law.

No laws are being broken by seeking asylum. Period.
 

oagboghi2

Member
Apr 15, 2018
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None of that proves we need illegal immigration. Like I stated earlier, America allows in a million legal immigrants per year. Also your concern over our birthrate is laughable. A one year blip means we now have to open our borders? Stop this nonsense.

Their are a myriad of things America could do to fix those problems (that aren't really problems) before we endorse illegal immigration.

No laws are being broken by seeking asylum. Period.
Claiming asylum isn't a guaranteed entry ticket into the country, and sneaking into the country, getting caught and then claiming asylum isn't exactly legal either.

This is the bullshit illegal immigration advocates always try to pull. It's beyond tired.
 
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Dunki

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Oct 24, 2017
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lol



No laws are being broken by seeking asylum. Period.
IF you do it OUTSIDE of the country yes if you do it IN the country you have broken the law. Its pretty easy to understand.

The United States is obliged to recognize valid claims for asylum under the 1951 Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees and its 1967 Protocol. As defined by these agreements, a refugee is a person who is outside his or her country of nationality (or place of habitual residence if stateless) who, owing to a fear of persecution on account of a protected ground, is unable or unwilling to avail himself of the protection of the state. Protected grounds include race, nationality, religion, political opinion and membership of a particular social group. The signatories to these agreements are further obliged not to return or "refoul" refugees to the place where they would face persecution.
 
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D

Deleted member 713885

Unconfirmed Member
So, I havent read through the thread yet but I'm guessing these tired arguments are being used as always?...

1. They bolster the economy!
2. Our population is dwindling!

This asylum stuff is BS also. What are these political activists? Nah, these are people going "Hey, my town has gangs and crime!"
Welp, so does Chicago...we cant seem to fix that so I don't think we should be saving every migrant from Juarez.

I'm sorry, I give ZERO fucks about Mexicans, Syrians, etc.. Cause first and foremost I'm thinking about Chicago, St Louis, New Orleans.
I'd rather see every dollar/social benefits spent on immigrants instead spent on American towns and cities where our own Americans needs it.

Every day Americans are on the struggle bus and the pool is full.
Go
 

DESTROYA

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Jan 1, 2011
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As a immigrant myself that works a lot with the immigrant community ( I came here legally and I am now a American citizen ) most immigrants who claim are fleeing gang violence and crime are not entirely telling the truth because they know it’s a easy way in.
I’ve had many personally tell me this, now that’s not saying none are but it’s a little hard to prove.
 

Sàmban

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Feb 21, 2014
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When you need to listen to an expert to understand common sense you have failed. Why do you Americas want public healthcare like Europe and free university education yet do not think that every other countries border controls are legit! Its hilarious - you need to read an expert opinion to understand what a wall does! You probably needed expert opinion to tell you Hilary will win the election when every Trump rally was packed and hers were empty! I learnt a long time ago that common sense was not that common, you school systems have failed you heavily.

This post...my god...just...encapsulates everything that is fucking wrong with internet discussion these days: unwarranted partisanship via random jabs at Hilary, smug anti-intellectualism and a staggering amount of ignorance. I'm not going to even bother discussing why the wall is a stupid idea with you. Look it up if you want to actually know if it is going to work. Don't just spout some simpleton caveman logic like "hurr durr build a wall cus it stops things." That's how you end up wasting stupid amounts of money.

As for your jab at experts. Essentially, experts are generally people who have accumulated a whole lot of common sense on a specific subject. For example, if you pick some guy off the street and ask him to solve a problem, he might pick a method of doing it via "common sense." If it works, then he has knowledge on how to solve it. If it doesn't work, he'll do something else. With enough similar problems to solve, he'll become an expert due to all the experience he has.

This is how society has worked since like...forever. Generally, you want to listen to people who are experts in their subject matter because they can prevent you from making mistakes they have made. Or, they might have some insights into solving an unrelated problem that you might find useful. But somehow, we've gotten to the point that listening to experts is a bad thing?


Also, fuck off with name-dropping Hilary for whatever fucking stupid reason. Stop that partisan shit. It's annoying, toxic and literally has nothing to do with this thread or what I even said. Seriously. STOP. THAT. DUMB. SHIT.
 

404Ender

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Jun 17, 2006
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IF you do it OUTSIDE of the country yes if you do it IN the country you have broken the law. Its pretty easy to understand.

What you quoted describes what an asylum seeker is, not the legality of it (other than the obligation the US has, in this case).

Coming into the country illegally and then asking for asylum when caught, is obviously illegal.

Presenting yourself at an official port of entry (like a border crossing) and seeking asylum as you enter is not illegal. It’s literally following our official policies.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
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If these laws were so heinous, why weren't they touched during the last 8-year administration?

Got any more pictures from 2014 of "children left at the border by Trump"?

Meanwhile, American children still suffer in impoverished cities. Where are the helping hands from our Holy Knights of Liberalism from New York or California when it comes to Flint and Chicago and Detroit?
 

TheShadowLord

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Jan 7, 2018
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What you quoted describes what an asylum seeker is, not the legality of it (other than the obligation the US has, in this case).

Coming into the country illegally and then asking for asylum when caught, is obviously illegal.

Presenting yourself at an official port of entry (like a border crossing) and seeking asylum as you enter is not illegal. It’s literally following our official policies.
but it also seems the current administration is taking on a harder stance aganist asylum seekers and not just those who enter illegally. imo that is .

https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/06/13/us-rolls-back-protections-asylum-seekers-again
The Trump administration continues its no-holds-barred attack on asylum seekers.

This week, US Attorney General Jeff Sessions raised the bar to make asylum nearly impossible for people fleeing domestic abuse and gang violence who cannot be protected in their home countries. His decision undoes established US precedent and goes against international law, which clearly recognizes people fleeing persecution by groups or individuals as refugees when their governments fail to protect them.

Because of the nature of the US immigration and asylum system, the attorney general, as head of the Department of Justice, has the power to unilaterally change decisions made by the Board of Immigration Appeals (BIA), the appellate body for immigration cases.

Now, the attorney general has used this power to overrule the BIA’s decision in a seminal 2014 case which had allowed domestic violence survivors whose governments didn’t protect them – and who were otherwise qualified – to receive asylum in the United States. Sessions’s order directs an immigration judge to deny a case called Matter of A-B-, and in doing so, overruled a 2014 decision called Matter of A-R-C-G-.
 
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The real injustice is Sessions war on reclassifying what you can ask for asylum for. Sexual abuse and physical violence is off the table now.

It goes against the legal traditions of past AGs but also the the current Department of Homeland security’s recommendations.

People, including myself, want secure borders. But if we are robbing Peter to pay Paul in terms of policy then I feel current political thought processes on both sides are ill equipped for the coming decades.

I don’t have much to say about separating children from their families when you get caught in an illegal act. I am not one to take away the consequences for your actions from any individual. I am also not one to call illegal immigration seeking asylum. However, reducing the scope of legal asylum is reprehensible. If Sessions cannot see this then he should step down.

I think many people in here need to self check their emotions and draw a clear boundary of what immigration, asylum and dehumanization mean.
 
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A bunch of really confident law and order types in this thread who don't know the first thing about their own countries refugee policy and how recent developments have ate away at it.
 
D

Deleted member 713885

Unconfirmed Member
At least we know where they are now..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...33a4d31bcc8_story.html?utm_term=.7d1250c14d05

"
The Obama administration failed to protect thousands of Central American children who have flooded across the U.S. border since 2011, leaving them vulnerable to traffickers and to abuses at the hands of government-approved caretakers, a Senate investigation has found.

The Office of Refugee Resettlement, an agency of the Department of Health and Human Services, failed to do proper background checks of adults who claimed the children, allowed sponsors to take custody of multiple unrelated children, and regularly placed children in homes without visiting the locations, according to a 56-page investigative report released Thursday.

And once the children left federally funded shelters, the report said, the agency permitted their adult sponsors to prevent caseworkers from providing them post-release services."
 
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Right. That’s what people are saying is inhumane and indefensible.

It is. The problem I have with people is that when they think the administration of a government is monolithic. This can Fracture the core discussion.

The Whithouse wants to make good on the concerns of its people and let us be clear, the constitutional obligation of secure borders.

The AG sees only one immediate solution to have an impact and his office is having pressure applied to it. The path chosen is morally reprehensible and dangerous.

Other departments have disagreements and see it for what it is. They are Trumps administration too. Focusing on a monolith will only jump the shark.

There is a wide range of conflic in politics and NORMALLY that is good because it spawns debate and compromise. Asylum for rape victims isn’t one of those things I would never consider debateable or something we should compromise. A country can tell another country to sort its shit but it can also take in those who are desperate and at the edge.

I can also understand why the AG doesn’t want to focus on it because private crimes may go unreported or uninvestigated. That may make asylum process over budget and hard to corroborate. So I am not going to call the man a white devil. But I am going to say TOUGH FUCKING SHIT YOU TOOK THE JOB BITCH to the AG. Immigration is the problem to solve. I think they, the politicians, forget themselves and their place in all of this.
 
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So what you’re saying is, not only did you not read the article, you didn’t read any of the posts in this thread. Awesome

Think he meant this one.
 
D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
So speaking out is having an effect? LOL
You think you are resisting some system of oppression by posting how you don't like it on an internet forum? Why don't you do something good?

Why do you assume this is all he is doing? Does posting here mean you can't do other things?
 

TrainedRage

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Why do you assume this is all he is doing? Does posting here mean you can't do other things?
No, he said he donated to the ACLU, so I got my answer. He was the one who said, "why don't you do something"? I responded, then asked what he was doing about it.
 

pramod

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Oct 24, 2017
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The immigration laws in this country are such a gigantic mess. Like the OP said you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. You can't even try to enforce the laws because it will result in these inhumane things happening. We really should just build a wall and be done with it.
 

ruvikx

Banned
Jan 12, 2018
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If these laws were so heinous, why weren't they touched during the last 8-year administration?

Got any more pictures from 2014 of "children left at the border by Trump"?

Meanwhile, American children still suffer in impoverished cities. Where are the helping hands from our Holy Knights of Liberalism from New York or California when it comes to Flint and Chicago and Detroit?

Indeed. The agenda driven 'outrage' which originates from liberal media is so evident. It's all part of the plan to do away with the USA's borders almost entirely. It's psychotic emotional manipulation of the masses via selectively choosing issues to be offended by... in order to push a liberal 'solution'. They've been operating in this manner for decades.

I mean reality check @ everyone: tragedies, injustices & horror are occurring all over the world & notably within the USA. Yet, people only look where they (media & their side of the culture war) want people to look. The entire "be a good person & open your borders!" schtick is almost a religion in & of itself now. If people think that'll solve misery, poverty & the reasons 'why' these people are flocking to the USA they're either sorely mistake or actually malevolently intentioned via deliberately attempting to socially engineer a democrat majority via mass immigration, i.e. importing voters, basically.
 

Panda1

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Don't just spout some simpleton caveman logic like "hurr durr build a wall cus it stops things." That's how you end up wasting stupid amounts of money.

This is how society has worked since like...forever. Generally, you want to listen to people who are experts in their subject matter because they can prevent you from making mistakes they have made. Or, they might have some insights into solving an unrelated problem that you might find useful. But somehow, we've gotten to the point that listening to experts is a bad thing?

STOP. THAT. DUMB. SHIT.


Lets not waste money by allowing unlimited people to come and then have to process them - are you being completely trolling by saying that you think illegal immigration is free and does not cost the country BILLIONS! If you cant work that out there is no point continuing to more advances issues.

How would you define expert in this matter? Please give me your criteria to see if you actually believe the nonsense you type. As for partisan shit - I am not American and give zero fucks about Trump or Hilary but dont tell me this is not 100% partisan issue that has been going on for decades and yet as soon as the IG report lands no one had this on their top 1000 things of things to bitch about and wow suddenly every bullshit outlet is pushing it - dont be fucking muppet and think this is not 100% to do with being able to get votes.
You also ignored actually answering anything and and you had to define what an expert meant since you dont even understand that and telling me why experience and knowledge is important. Please can you let me know if water is still wet. I need to be patronised more by, and I assuming that, a privilege white male showing what a great guy and how much you are a decent person, but ignoring 80% of cases are child abuse as defined by USA law!
 

rokkerkory

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Sep 2, 2013
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This is a clusterfuck in the making if not already all self-inflicted by this administration. It's not moral, unethical and not American do take kids away and put them in cages, let them eat off the floor, etc. This did not need to happen.

The statue of liberty is probably hiding its face right now as we are no longer the beacon of light for rest of the world.
 

Max Legroom

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Jun 16, 2018
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This is a clusterfuck in the making if not already all self-inflicted by this administration. It's not moral, unethical and not American do take kids away and put them in cages, let them eat off the floor, etc. This did not need to happen.

The statue of liberty is probably hiding its face right now as we are no longer the beacon of light for rest of the world.

It’s the inevitable result of Trump’s inability to do anything but pander to the salted hams with legs that constitute his base. The 2016 playbook is all he knows.
 

eclipze

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This will be part of Trumps legacy. I’m sure it will look good in hindsight.
 

Marlenus

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Jul 29, 2013
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The more people I see defending this shit the more I realise that America has a 3rd world shit hole society and 1st world technology.

Makes me glad I don't live there.
 

Rudelord

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Jun 11, 2013
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The more people I see defending this shit the more I realise that America has a 3rd world shit hole society and 1st world technology.

Makes me glad I don't live there.
Careful, wouldn't want to have to report you to the UK police force for hate speech.
 
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D

Deleted member 17706

Unconfirmed Member
Lets not waste money by allowing unlimited people to come and then have to process them - are you being completely trolling by saying that you think illegal immigration is free and does not cost the country BILLIONS! If you cant work that out there is no point continuing to more advances issues.

What do you think the cost of building and maintaining a 2,000 mile wall will be in a country that can barely keep its roads and other infrastructure together? It's not like you're going to save any costs in terms of staff monitoring the border. Plenty of people will still make their way through whatever wall may get built. It's untenable.
 

ssolitare

Manbaby: The Member
Jan 12, 2009
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There's no need to worry about pepole defending this, they are the loyalists.

Only 55% of Republicans support all this, the rest do not, and the vast majority of Democrats and moderates do not support this.

That's still a lot of people supporting this, but the other side wins the popularity contest by far, and Republicans will start backing away from it.
 

Cato

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There's no need to worry about pepole defending this, they are the loyalists.

Only 55% of Republicans support all this, the rest do not, and the vast majority of Democrats and moderates do not support this.

That's still a lot of people supporting this, but the other side wins the popularity contest by far, and Republicans will start backing away from it.

You are 100% correct. Few people actually support this on either side.
So therefore it would be VERY easy for the Senate to legislate a fix very quickly and solve it once and for all.

Sadly, on both sides, I think the politicians are more interested in using he current situation as a weapon to bash the other side than to actually fix it.
That is the sad story. Both sides basically want the situation to continue since they feel they can gain some political benefit out of it.
 
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