• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

NYT OP ED: Why Democrats need Wall Street

nephilimdj

Member
Jan 31, 2011
5,854
63
805
Straya
USA politics has always had a weird relationship, remember the fiancial crisis and Bush was scared of being seen as a Commie when helping banks.
I mean those federal take overs where much different then UK, USA gov made much less money for pretty much same end result.
 

CornBurrito

Member
Dec 1, 2009
29,551
0
845
Opinions Page, breh.

And yes, Democrats do need Wall Street. As a proud neo-liberal centrist, some of you guys just want to burn it all down. Doesn't work like that.

Being Republican-Lite is not how the world needs to work.

Only difference is Republicans cheer when poor people die, whereas you just shrug and say "tough luck i didnt write the rules".
 

JesseEwiak

Member
May 9, 2013
5,839
0
0
Doug Scheon's been a joke for years. He's a Fox News Democrat with zero power over the current party, even the evil Hillary supporters. Even relative moderates like Jonathan Chait make fun of him. Us old school Internet Democrats have ignored him for years, but he's doing a good troll job on newer Bernie fans, who don't know any better.
 

entremet

Member
Dec 6, 2008
85,707
384
1,455
Why don't we just eliminate all business taxes? And get rid of the minimum wage?

Money controls everything.
I was being tongue and cheek earlier. I’m more in favor of social democracy a la Scandinavia, but US deep seated racism won’t allow a robust welfare state. What this means is high income taxes and less corporate taxes with business friendly regulation.

That far from far left tho.
 

Crocodile

Member
Apr 13, 2006
17,698
1
0
This twitter thread seems to be pretty apt here: Left leaning people fall for troll bait from nobodies and start getting pissy at Dems for things they didn't or start infighting

Didn't Clinton spend twice or thrice as much as Trump?

Trump also got billions of dollars worth of media coverage for free which makes comparisons harder than normal

Being Republican-Lite is not how the world needs to work.

Only difference is Republicans cheer when poor people die, whereas you just shrug and say "tough luck i didnt write the rules".

*GOP spends the first 9 months of the year trying to rip healthcare from MILLIONS of Americans*

"Man why are the Democrats just Republican-Lite?"

K
 

Acerac

Banned
May 20, 2007
10,230
582
1,225
It’s incredibly naive to say Democrats don’t need Wall Street. Money controls everything. Yeah it’s nice to be ideological but we have to live within the framework of our society or it’s going to be an endless string of Trump like presidents.

More or less.

It sucks, but it's true. When you live in a plutocracy, if you're not courting the ones with money you will fail.
 

pigeon

Banned
Feb 14, 2011
19,361
1
0
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/17/...wall-street.html?smid=tw-nytopinion&smtyp=cur

This was written by a senior Democratic Bill Clinton political and economic adviser. Thoughts?

In an era when America is attempting to fight against the swamp, i am alarmed that this kind of article was so prominent on NYT's website.

Another way to put this is that this article was written by somebody who was last relevant in the previous millennium.

But don’t let that stop you from fomenting anger at the Democrats!
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Jul 26, 2014
26,221
2
0
America
This twitter thread seems to be pretty apt here: Left leaning people fall for troll bait from nobodies and start getting pissy at Dems for things they didn't or start infighting

*GOP spends the first 9 months of the year trying to rip healthcare from MILLIONS of Americans*

"Man why are the Democrats just Republican-Lite?"

K

That wasn't my intent with this thread.

My intent in this thread is to highlight what the guy says in the article and debate its substance or lack of substance with his statements.

I think everyone who is opposed what Trump and his cronies in the GOP are doing in America today should heavily disagree with what this guy says, because it is basically the same thing as their arguments.

Being buddy buddy with powerful corporate interests create jobs. Advocating for important social programs and expansions and investments into America are dangerous because it fuels "anti business sentiment".

Deregulation is the answer to America's woes.

These kinds of views are undeniably harmful as they are the same kind of Reaganomics claptrap that has been propagated for decades now.

Another way to put this is that this article was written by somebody who was last relevant in the previous millennium.

But don't let that stop you from fomenting anger at the Democrats!

I don't understand why some people are reflexively defensive of anything that may slightly sound accusatory towards the Democratic party. I don't care about party labels generally, just what the principles and polices of those parties are. As i said before, this thread has nothing to do with the democrats, but the actual viewpoints this guy is espousing.
 
Dec 11, 2012
4,940
2
0
Why are you so upset about the NYT having a democrat write an op ed that you don't agree with?

Is the NYT supposed to be a specific bastion of progressive ideals that I wasn't aware of?
No, it's just that their Op-ed section is one-sided as hell and not even remotely a space for debate at all.
 

pigeon

Banned
Feb 14, 2011
19,361
1
0
That wasn't my intent with this thread.

My intent in this thread is to highlight what the guy says in the article and debate its substance or lack of substance with his statements.

I think everyone who is opposed what Trump and his cronies in the GOP are doing in America today should heavily disagree with what this guy says, because it is basically the same thing as their arguments.

Being buddy buddy with powerful corporate interests create jobs. Advocating for important social programs and expansions and investments into America are dangerous because it fuels "anti business sentiment".

Deregulation is the answer to America's woes.

These kinds of views are undeniably harmful as they are the same kind of Reaganomics claptrap that has been propagated for decades now.

It’s hilarious to me that this wasn’t your intention. But okay. Yes, everything this guy says is wrong.
 

CornBurrito

Member
Dec 1, 2009
29,551
0
845
This sentiment is why Dems will barely pick up any additional seats next year and why they'll lose in 2020.

Yeah. If my choices are Far Right Pro-Fascist Party and Center Right Pro-Corporate Party, I think I'll stick with third party or I simply won't vote.

And many other people feel the same way.

Yes, that did and will leave us with Trump. Maybe the proud neoliberal centrists can decide which fate they prefer. Far Right Fascism or maybe some actual Leftist politicians.
 

NullPointer

Member
May 4, 2006
44,302
3
0
San Francisco
Oh fuck off.

Like there has ever been a viable non-Wall Street choice for the general in our lifetimes.

Its about accountability, and too many institutions and organizations in this country have none whatsoever. Because they are bought and paid for.
 

pigeon

Banned
Feb 14, 2011
19,361
1
0
Yeah. If my choices are Far Right Pro-Fascist Party and Center Right Pro-Corporate Party, I think I'll stick with third party or I simply won't vote.

And many other people feel the same way.

Yes, that did and will leave us with Trump. Maybe the proud neoliberal centrists can decide which fate they prefer. Far Right Fascism or maybe some actual Leftist politicians.

Thanks for your allyship! Glad to have your aid in the fight against white supremacy!
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Jul 26, 2014
26,221
2
0
America
It’s hilarious to me that this wasn’t your intention. But okay. Yes, everything this guy says is wrong.

Thank you, i agree. And so i think we should all agree that politicians should run away from this guy's viewpoints as fast as possible.I don't know what this guy's actual political alignment is, but he obviously is big enough to get an OP ED in the NYT espousing his views, and so its something to give pause to.
 

CornBurrito

Member
Dec 1, 2009
29,551
0
845
Thanks for your allyship! Glad to have your aid in the fight against white supremacy!

I'll use the money I get from regressive economic policies to cut a check to the antifa, who will actually do something to fight white supremacists. No need to thank me.

Also lol if you think Center Right folks will do anything to fight white supremacy. Or as they call it "civil discourse" and "open marketplace of ideas."
 

kirblar

Member
Oct 9, 2010
63,315
1
860
I think its important to call out the content most of all, because that's the most egregious thing. The person himself should probably come secondary, even though just seeing his previous articles doesn't make him out to be a bright individual. He's basically trying to badly emulate Tony Blair in sucking up to the right wing whenever he can
The content isn't being presented in good faith. You've been baited.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Jul 26, 2014
26,221
2
0
America
Oh fuck off.

Like there has ever been a viable non-Wall Street choice for the general in our lifetimes.

Its about accountability, and too many institutions and organizations in this country have none whatsoever. Because they are bought and paid for.

Have you read the article? He's basically saying that politicians should act like republicans to win seats. I don't think anyone believes that to be true or right, regardless of what political apathy they have about the system in place.

And as i've said to others before, i don't think you as a person would say what you've said about any other systemically ingrained issue America has either now or in the past. I think its important to call out the issues America faces.
 

kirblar

Member
Oct 9, 2010
63,315
1
860
Have you read the article? He's basically saying that politicians should act like republicans to win seats. I don't think anyone believes that to be true or right, regardless of what political apathy they have about the system in place.

And as i've said to others before, i don't think you as a person would say what you've said about any other systemically ingrained issue America has either now or in the past. I think its important to call out the issues America faces.
If I write an article about how we need to rise up and take voting rights away from the bourgeoisie, should you take it seriously?
This sentiment is why Dems will barely pick up any additional seats next year and why they'll lose in 2020.
Lefties getting baited by conservatives in disguise? I agree that it's a big issue!
 

NullPointer

Member
May 4, 2006
44,302
3
0
San Francisco
Have you read the article? He's basically saying that politicians should act like republicans to win seats. I don't think anyone believes that to be true or right, regardless of what political apathy they have about the system in place.
I read it as Wall Street has the money and money rules politics so get with the program.

And forget about the massive systematic fraud that led to our great recession. And maybe forget about the massive redistribution of wealth over the past 40+ years to the very highest earners while wages stagnate for everyone else.

I won't forget any time soon, and maybe Dem/Progressive voter perceptions are less the issue than a lack of accountability and control of Wall Street's excesses and commanding seat at the table.
 

boiled goose

good with gravy
Oct 30, 2007
12,845
1
1,050
BS.

America center right? That's on labels but issue by issue America is center left.

Also, by taking corporate money Democrats are agreeing to losing. Less money. Less corrupt. But just enough to be dirty and lose.

Isn't it amazing that we are openly admitting to political bribery? Clearly wallstreet is getting something out of the investment. It's such fucking bullshit.

I read it as Wall Street has the money and money rules politics so get with the program.

That's the argument. But it sucks. It's getting paid to lose. Republicans benefit in this system. Also, what's the point of winning if you have to act right wing to win?

This is making my blood boil. It's exactly why Democrats suck and lost election and tons of seats throughout the country despite being right on policy and favorable demographics. THEY ARE GETTING PAID TO LOSE.
 

JesseEwiak

Member
May 9, 2013
5,839
0
0
BS
This is making my blood boil. It's exactly why Democrats suck and lost election and tons of seats throughout the country despite being right on policy and favorable demographics. THEY ARE GETTING PAID TO LOSE.

Again, Doug Schoen has been a Fox News Democrat since the days of Howard Dean. I have more influence in the modern Democratic party than the does.
 

kirblar

Member
Oct 9, 2010
63,315
1
860
You can just say neoliberal you know. It's more concise than "conservatives in disguise"
This guy is not a "neoliberal". He is a troll. He has a show on Fox News. He "couldn't vote for Hillary because of her emails", he wanted Obama to not run for a second term, and now he argues for the Dems to cozy up to Wall Street.

He has no party connections. He represents only himself and gets printed because people like you will see this and latch onto it as an example of the Evil Dem Empire where you then share it with your friends angrily, where you earn the NYT advertising money.

If you think this was posted in good faith, you are very, very bad at understanding context.
 

boiled goose

good with gravy
Oct 30, 2007
12,845
1
1,050
Yeah. If my choices are Far Right Pro-Fascist Party and Center Right Pro-Corporate Party, I think I'll stick with third party or I simply won't vote.

And many other people feel the same way.

Yes, that did and will leave us with Trump. Maybe the proud neoliberal centrists can decide which fate they prefer. Far Right Fascism or maybe some actual Leftist politicians.

You should still vote for least worst option that is viable.

If Gop wins, they rig system more.

You fight in the primaries, then vote least worst. It's not surrender. It's allowing you to fight again next time.

Think of Scotus now because of trump. Supreme court extra conservative and pro corporate money for another generation.
 

OG Shaka Zulu

Member
Dec 9, 2016
2,174
2
0
I hate this "Hillary went too left!" nonsense. Hillary most likely lost states due to widespread voter suppression.
 

Coriolanus

Banned
Jul 24, 2013
12,373
0
340
Brazil.
Man, that dude has a history of writing crazy. In 2010 he and the other bro went out of their way to blame Obama directly for Republicans going Full Oppo. Went as far as to say that dude was Nixon 2.0
The Crazy said:
President Obama's post-partisan America has disappeared, replaced by the politics of polarization, resentment and division.

In a Univision interview on Monday, the president, who campaigned in 2008 by referring not to a "Red America" or a "Blue America" but a United States of America, urged Hispanic listeners to vote in this spirit: "We're gonna punish our enemies and we're gonna reward our friends who stand with us on issues that are important to us."

Recently, Obama suggested that if Republicans gain control of the House and/or Senate as forecast, he expects not reconciliation and unity but "hand-to-hand combat" on Capitol Hill.

What a change two years can bring.

We can think of only one other recent president who would display such indifference to the majesty of his office: Richard Nixon.

We write in sadness as traditional liberal Democrats who believe in inclusion. Like many Americans, we had hoped that Obama would maintain the spirit in which he campaigned. Instead, since taking office, he has pitted group against group for short-term political gain that is exacerbating the divisions in our country and weakening our national identity.The culture of attack politics and demonization risks compromising our ability to address our most important issues - and the stature of our nation's highest office.

Indeed, Obama is conducting himself in a way alarmingly reminiscent of Nixon's role in the disastrous 1970 midterm campaign. No president has been so persistently personal in his attacks as Obama throughout the fall. He has regularly attacked his predecessor, the House minority leader and - directly from the stump - candidates running for offices below his own. He has criticized the American people suggesting that they are "reacting just to fear" and faulted his own base for "sitting on their hands complaining."

Could pass as a comedy piece, really.
 

Madness

Banned
Jan 1, 2013
22,118
0
0
Bill was a neoliberal but the rest of this post is nonsense. The decline of manufacturing and the American middle class began decades before the Clintons arrived in Washington.

The dollar becoming the world's reserve currency after WW2 is what killed manufacturing and made Wall Street what it is today.

Of course but you can directly pinpoint the complete change in Chinese economic trajectory and decline in US manufacturing to post 2000 when just as predicted, Chinese trade deficits grew, Chinese protectionist measures and technology licensing helped them jumpstart their own companies and industry, along with the loss of thousands and thousands of jobs the last two decades. You can read economic policy and papers from 1998 and 1999 warning of this and Bill Clinton and his administration saying this would help slow China's economy, help rein in counterfeit and IP theft, help American companies dominate by allowing access to the Chinese market.

I mean you can say it went downhill when they dropped the gold standard, Nixon's visit to China and challenging the US etc. But this was something Wall Street wanted and Bill was happy to give.
 

entremet

Member
Dec 6, 2008
85,707
384
1,455
What is business friendly regulation? Define it for me. Give an example. And give an example that doesn't fuck over workers or the general population for corporate interests.

I'd like lower corporate taxes for one. The US has among the highest. I remember reading it's much easier to start businesses in some Scandivanian countries than the US. They also have lower corporate tax rates.
 

EtherMagic

Member
Oct 7, 2013
494
138
505
Being Republican-Lite is not how the world needs to work.

Only difference is Republicans cheer when poor people die, whereas you just shrug and say "tough luck i didnt write the rules".


I take offense to this, who in the world brain washed you?

My entire immediate family leans conservative/republican, and i guarantee you that you would be hard pressed to find a Family that donates to more charities and hands out more money then my family.

Everytime i stop by my parents house all i see is stacks of mail for charities my parents donate to, and not only for people, but for animals aswel.

As far as myself, i cannot tell you how many times i have been in long lines at WalMart (or where ever), and i see 8-10 people infront of me and not one of them donate when asked by the cashier. I ALWAYS DO!!! There have been times i have given my last dollar to help with a cause.


The whole notion that republicans are emotionless, self-centered A-Holes that only care about themselves and their pocketbook is one of the biggest lies you can possibly tell yourself, or have other tell you for you.


BTW, my parents nor myself have ever owned a new car (all 2nd hand), we cannot afford it! But still find a way to give to others to benifit their lives over our own.
 

Ac30

Member
Jul 11, 2014
3,284
0
0
I take offense to this, who in the world brain washed you?

My entire immediate family leans conservative/republican, and i guarantee you that you would be hard pressed to find a Family that donates to more charities and hands out more money then my family.

Everytime i stop by my parents house all i see is stacks of mail for charities my parents donate to, and not only for people, but for animals aswel.

As far as myself, i cannot tell you how many times i have been in long lines at WalMart (or where ever), and i see 8-10 people infront of me and not one of them donate when asked by the cashier. I ALWAYS DO!!! There have been times i have given my last dollar to help with a cause.


The whole notion that republicans are emotionless, self-centered A-Holes that only care about themselves and their pocketbook is one of the biggest lies you can possibly tell yourself, or have other tell you for you.


BTW, my parents nor myself have ever owned a new car (all 2nd hand), we cannot afford it! But still find a way to give to others to benifit their lives over our own.

They're slashing taxes and gutting healthcare for the poor and needy out of the goodness of their hearts while simultaneously attempting to destroy what little legislation exists to protect our environment.

I'm glad you and your parents are so charitable but the party is a disgrace, filled with selfish sanctimonious assholes.
 

old manatee

Banned
May 6, 2009
15,384
1
0
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Sep 20, 2014
32,454
9
525
Burnaby, BC
I take offense to this, who in the world brain washed you?

My entire immediate family leans conservative/republican, and i guarantee you that you would be hard pressed to find a Family that donates to more charities and hands out more money then my family.

Everytime i stop by my parents house all i see is stacks of mail for charities my parents donate to, and not only for people, but for animals aswel.

As far as myself, i cannot tell you how many times i have been in long lines at WalMart (or where ever), and i see 8-10 people infront of me and not one of them donate when asked by the cashier. I ALWAYS DO!!! There have been times i have given my last dollar to help with a cause.


The whole notion that republicans are emotionless, self-centered A-Holes that only care about themselves and their pocketbook is one of the biggest lies you can possibly tell yourself, or have other tell you for you.


BTW, my parents nor myself have ever owned a new car (all 2nd hand), we cannot afford it! But still find a way to give to others to benifit their lives over our own.

Donating money to charity doesn't save the social safety net.
 

Tapioca

Banned
Aug 17, 2017
519
222
270
Democrats suck at propaganda campaigns. They need to make liberalism cool, the all american thing to be........


They need to get some better people because whoever they work with just sucks. Real bad.
 

Bendeavor

Neo Member
Aug 7, 2017
27
0
0
The whole notion that republicans are emotionless, self-centered A-Holes that only care about themselves and their pocketbook is one of the biggest lies you can possibly tell yourself, or have other tell you for you.

Which party wants businesses to be able to discriminate against LGBTQ people? Which party has tried multiple times now to take away people's health care? Which party guts social services every chance it gets? Which party stands behind the police every single time a cop uses excessive force against a black person? Which party denies women the access to both abortion and contraceptives? Which party is denying climate change? And lastly, which party supported Donald fucking Trump, the most blatantly racist and sexist presidential candidate we've had in decades?

Even if your family doesn't personally support any of those things, they still back the party that does. And donating does nothing to make up for the damage that the GOP inflicts on our country on a regular basis, either short term or long term.
 

kneePat

Member
May 11, 2011
1,026
0
740
What is business friendly regulation? Define it for me. Give an example
Legalized slavery.

And give an example that doesn't fuck over workers or the general population for corporate interests.
Oh, nvm.

I'd like lower corporate taxes for one. The US has among the highest. I remember reading it's much easier to start businesses in some Scandivanian countries than the US. They also have lower corporate tax rates.
Yeah, Walmart pays too much in taxes.
 

Foffy

Banned
May 14, 2009
22,560
2
0
Opinions Page, breh.

And yes, Democrats do need Wall Street. As a proud neo-liberal centrist, some of you guys just want to burn it all down. Doesn't work like that.

To be "proud" of this is hilarious.

It's neoliberalism that's created the precariat problem that's eating America alive. How in the world are you proud of the virus taking this country under..?

Neoliberalism started under Ronald Reagan and is the direct source of the rise of inequality in America. Also, it's the reason why we have Trump. What's there to be proud of?

Trump's administration is actually the ideal for neoliberalism: people in office all from business, to run it like a business. Henry Giroux nails this problem right to a wall. Of course, Trump's a neonationalist, which means he lies to the public about economic nationalism, but continues neoliberal policies. Last I checked you were not a Donald Trump supporter. Perhaps you should be?