Obama meets with Beto over 2020 presidential run.

Aug 17, 2018
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#55
Ah, so the 'rules' of a 'normal' canididate only apply to Democrats I suppose? Our current President fucked pornstars while his wife was nursing a newborn. I guess in a way it's good Democrats still have some standards for the bearer of their party.
I thought dems supported Pornstars being empowered women. Also what happened to not discriminating against someones sexuality? Trump is clearly polyamorous and you have to respect that or you are a bigot and a literal Nazi.
 

sahlberg

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#56
Don't know, don't care, and I suspect his supporters don't care that much either given how much they despise the alternatives.

I know, right?



Just imagining the nicknames and memes that Trump will come up with brings tears to my eyes.
The DNC realizes that if they pick him the whole 12 months leading up to the election will just be memes, wall to wall, 24 x 7. They understand this, right?
 
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sahlberg

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#57
Ah, so the 'rules' of a 'normal' canididate only apply to Democrats I suppose? Our current President fucked pornstars while his wife was nursing a newborn. I guess in a way it's good Democrats still have some standards for the bearer of their party.
He is rich, powerful and bangs pornstars. That makes him alpha. You almost sound like that is not something most men in the US envy?

EDIT: s/successful/powerful/
 
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matt404au

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#58
Ah, so the 'rules' of a 'normal' canididate only apply to Democrats I suppose? Our current President fucked pornstars while his wife was nursing a newborn. I guess in a way it's good Democrats still have some standards for the bearer of their party.
Yeah, they at least have the decency to limit themselves to interns in the Oval Office.
 
Apr 9, 2009
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#61
I'm not really sure that memes or Trump nicknames would affect Beto that much like some of you imply.

Hillary had 25 years in the political spotlight with a walk-in closet of skeletons. Beto has had maybe 5 years in the political spotlight with a nightstand of skeletons, if that much.
 
Aug 30, 2018
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#64
You guys might laugh, but Trump was even less qualified and he still won. This could work out.
Trump won because he was an outsider to politics, yet someone that almost everyone in America knew. His lack of qualifications actually a good thing. Beto's is seen as a career politician with little experience, so he loses on both fronts. Not an outisder, and not an experience politican with notable accomplishments under his belt.
 
Oct 21, 2018
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#65
Trump didn't lose an overhyped election by the Media and DNC politicians less than two years before presidential primaries start. To one of the most polarizing politicians in congress.
No, Trump simply seems to bankrupt his own overhyped business initiatives. Totally different!

You're talking about an election in Texas, which is supposed to be solid Republican territory, where Cruz is actually way more popular than elsewhere in the country. Beto came unexpectedly close and still helped the Democrats make tangible gains in Texas, not just limited to his own vote count, so you are underestimating a lot of factors.

Furthermore, there are enough examples of politicians who lost a race and won another later on.

Trump won because he was an outsider to politics, yet someone that almost everyone in America knew. His lack of qualifications actually a good thing. Beto's is seen as a career politician with little experience, so he loses on both fronts. Not an outisder, and not an experience politican with notable accomplishments under his belt.
I'd argue he won because Hillary simply had too many weaknesses, both self-inflicted and otherwise (gotta give some credit to the GOP hate machine working against her for decades).

I don't believe in the myth of the outsider. It's not even necessary to explain why Trump won, nor does it guarantee much for a future election when people are seeing that he didn't "drain the swamp" but has been filling it with a bunch of folks already known to be corrupt or otherwise flawed.

Only Trump's personal behavior and Twitter habits make him any kind of "outsider" at this point.
 
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No, Trump simply seems to bankrupt his own overhyped business initiatives. Totally different!

You're talking about an election in Texas, which is supposed to be solid Republican territory, where Cruz is actually way more popular than elsewhere in the country. Beto came unexpectedly close and still helped the Democrats make tangible gains in Texas, not just limited to his own vote count, so you are underestimating a lot of factors.
I'm not underestimating shit. He was overhyped by the Media, and DNC politicians as well as voters on social media, to Lose to the most polarizing guy in congress that isn't even the most popular politician in Texas, and you think he has a chance to run in 2020 with a "DC position" political loss?

Is there really NO ONE that the democrats can gravitate towards? Is the lack of leadership really THAT bad that Beto is even being considered to run?
 
Oct 21, 2018
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#67
I'm not underestimating shit. He was overhyped by the Media, and DNC politicians as well as voters on social media, to Lose to the most polarizing guy in congress that isn't even the most popular politician in Texas, and you think he has a chance to run in 2020 with a "DC position" political loss?

Is there really NO ONE that the democrats can gravitate towards? Is the lack of leadership really THAT bad that Beto is even being considered to run?
Again, Trump is the master of overhyping himself, his businesses and now even his presidency. Didn't seem to hurt him even when said hype has been proven, time and time again, to be nothing more than hot air.

As previously noted, Ted Cruz defeated Donald Trump in the 2016 Texas primary and not by a small mount.

The fact some Republicans have the nerve to say that last line regarding a "lack of leadership" after you (as a party, not speaking about you as a person) picked Trump, of all people, sure says something about projection.

Here's a fact: Beto might not necessarily be the best possible candidate, but he could still win. Just like Trump.
 
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Again, Trump is the master of overhyping himself, his businesses and now even his presidency. Didn't seem to hurt him, even if said hype has been proven, time and time again, to be nothing other than hot air.

As previously noted, Ted Cruz defeated Donal Trump in the 2016 Texas primary and not by a small mount.

The fact some Republicans have the nerve to say that last line regarding a "lack of leadership" after you (as a party, not speaking about you as a person) picked Trump, of all people, sure says something about projection.
Well it seems your making assumptions on my political beliefs but moving that aside for a second.

You're first sentence invalidates nothing. This is election season, and you're running for the highest office in D.C., so in running for a different high office in D.C. you let too many people and organization hype up and make a big deal in your race which really wasn't worth putting that much attention on and still lost to statically the most polarizing politician in texas. Right when primary season is about the start.

No matter what spin you put on it he has no chance. Zero. By now Hillary and Bernie were already gravitated towards, the only reason I can think of that people are en considering beto is a lack of leadership and a lack of clear options to throw in the primary.
 
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Well it seems your making assumptions on my political beliefs but moving that aside for a second.

You're first sentence invalidates nothing. This is election season, and you're running for the highest office in D.C., so in running for a different high office in D.C. you let too many people and organization hype up and make a big deal in your race which really wasn't worth putting that much attention on and still lost to statically the most polarizing politician in texas. Right when primary season is about the start.

No matter what spin you put on it he has no chance. Zero. By now Hillary and Bernie were already gravitated towards, the only reason I can think of that people are en considering beto is a lack of leadership and a lack of clear options to throw in the primary.
Who will determine whether or not it was "worthwhile" in the long run? Neither of us, I'll tell you that.

I suppose you could read my statement in multiple ways, but I was trying to be kind with that particular phrasing (whether or not you supported Trump in 2016 as much as other Republicans did wasn't the core of my argument, either way).

A lot of people also initially thought Trump had zero chance. A lot can change in a few months.
 
Aug 24, 2016
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Who will determine whether or not it was "worthwhile" in the long run? Neither of us, I'll tell you that.

I suppose you could read my statement in multiple ways, but I was trying to be kind with that particular phrasing (whether or not you supported Trump in 2016 as much as other Republicans did wasn't the core of my argument, either way).

A lot of people also initially thought Trump had zero chance. A lot can change in a few months.
Trump didn't run for a high office and Lose with overhype from social media, politicians, and the news media hyping up a super big blue-wave and talking about the possibility of flipping texas with a ridiculous amount of money less than a full year before primaries start.

The fact you don't understand this is baffling.
 
Apr 9, 2009
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#73
Rest assured that the 2019 democratic primary field will be huge. Remember how republican primaries in 2015 had so many candidates they needed to hold two different debates locations at one point? I think its gonna be like that. So its not that Beto is being christened like Hillary so much as Obama was likely advising that he has a legit shot at beating his contenders.
 
Aug 30, 2018
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#74
No, Trump simply seems to bankrupt his own overhyped business initiatives. Totally different!

You're talking about an election in Texas, which is supposed to be solid Republican territory, where Cruz is actually way more popular than elsewhere in the country. Beto came unexpectedly close and still helped the Democrats make tangible gains in Texas, not just limited to his own vote count, so you are underestimating a lot of factors.

Furthermore, there are enough examples of politicians who lost a race and won another later on.

I'd argue he won because Hillary simply had too many weaknesses, both self-inflicted and otherwise (gotta give some credit to the GOP hate machine working against her for decades).

I don't believe in the myth of the outsider. It's not even necessary to explain why Trump won, nor does it guarantee much for a future election when people are seeing that he didn't "drain the swamp" but has been filling it with a bunch of folks already known to be corrupt or otherwise flawed.

Only Trump's personal behavior and Twitter habits make him any kind of "outsider" at this point.
Agreed 100% on Hillary. She was a terrible candidate that run a terrible campaign and was as likable as chronic diarrhea.

Trump has been on-brand the entire way through. The average person doesn't follow the news, read political websites, etc, but they see his tweets and it cements his status as an outsider that tells it like it is.
 
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#76
If anyone thinks a man is going to come out of the 2020 Democratic primaries on top they're underestimating the will of the party. The women's marches, #MeToo, Kavanaugh, 2018 midterms, not to mention the endless propaganda from news outlets making it sound like any white woman still supporting Trump has something seriously wrong with her... Dems have been paving the way for that first woman president. It provides a starker contrast to Trump.

America passed up the idea of the first woman president when it came up against the idea of the first black president. America passed up the idea the idea of the first woman president again when it came up against an outsider that was politically incorrect and not beholden to the establishment class. Third time's the charm, especially after years of media propaganda making the current president sound like Hitler 2.0.

No man, no matter how qualified, was ever going to pose a challenge to Pelosi during this time, nor will any man be able to stop a woman presidential candidate in 2020. She doesn't even need any strong policy ideas, all she has to do is speak clearly, forcefully and avoid making socially insensitive remarks to garner the support needed.
At least this guy is honest, yeah if the democratic party wants to win they definitely need to run with a women. They've spent years trying to paint everyone that voted for trump as a mysoginist nazi piece of shit. If they run with a man, especially this guy that has a super punchable face, they're screwed. They have a real control over the media, so I wouldn't be surprised if they do manage to win.
 

120v

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#77
brass tacks i would say a woman would have an uphill battle post hillary. it would just seem like hillary redux for mid westerners who went from obama to trump
 

DietRob

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#78
Yeah, they at least have the decency to limit themselves to interns in the Oval Office.
Wasn't a candidate and there were pretty severe consequences. What's your point?

I thought dems supported Pornstars being empowered women. Also what happened to not discriminating against someones sexuality? Trump is clearly polyamorous and you have to respect that or you are a bigot and a literal Nazi.
I thought Republicans were champions of family values and the sanctity of marriage.
 
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matt404au

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#81
But it is a partisian issue when only one party is consistently held accountable by peers and voters in that party.
lol that’s really not true. There have been plenty of Republican sex scandals, especially involving homosexuality. Voters tend to get most riled up by hypocrisy. Trump’s fanbase don’t care about the Stormy Daniels stuff because he has never pretended to be above cheating on his wife.
 

DietRob

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#82
lol that’s really not true. There have been plenty of Republican sex scandals, especially involving homosexuality. Voters tend to get most riled up by hypocrisy. Trump’s fanbase don’t care about the Stormy Daniels stuff because he has never pretended to be above cheating on his wife.
Maybe 10-20 years ago and certainly still around homosexuality but the modern GOP places power above all else.

They don't let things like morality or hypocrisy stand in the way. It's quite machiavellian
 
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May 22, 2018
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I like Beto. Guy has charisma and is willing to reach across the aisle.


Though I find it downright hilarious that people are trying to use the Texas election against him given that it's fucking Texas.
 

DietRob

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#87
Can you give any examples to justify why you think that?
OK, so I don't think you'll agree with some of these, maybe not any but here goes. I think these are some relatively recent examples of the modern day GOP putting power above morality and hypocrisy get in the way of power.

Kavenaugh - McConnell and the gang did everything they could to rush him through as quickly as possible. Even though as they all showed us with Garland these appointments are not time sensitive. The investigation could have been more comprehensive and most certainly would have been if it would have been a democrat who made the nomination. If they would have even let a democratic nominee get that far. This one shows both their lack of morality and hypocricy to fill the court with their nominees at any cost.

Roy Moore - The vast majority of the GOP stuck with him through most of his campagin. They did everything they could to smear his accusers and downplay the accusations. Everything from it was too long ago to matter to 'at least he's not a democrat' type of rhetoric. Meanwhile, lets look how they attacked someone like Franken. The accusations against him were also from quite a while back but that didn't matter at all. Thankfully my black sisters showed up in the Moore race and made sure he wasn't elected. But it was close way too close for someone with multiple sexual assualt accusations to be in an election. GOP voters didn't seem to care as much when 'their guy' is accused.


Fuckery in Wisconsin -
GOP hypocricy on full display here. Instead of listening to the will of the people who elected democratic leaders they are frantically trying to push through legislation that will greatly limit the power of the new Democrats coming into office. They are doing whatever they can to fight off the will of the voters and keep as much power as possible.


Voter Fraud in North Carolina -
Despite all of the fear mongering and false accusations from many leaders in the GOP about voter fraud here they are getting caught red handed trying to cheat and commit voter fraud to retain power. Somehow though this story isn't being covered wall to wall on outlets like Fox News like you would assume any story about Election Fraud would be seeing how much time they all go on the station to try to rile people up about the potential of it happening. We have blatant voter fraud going on in North Carolina and none of the usual suspects like Marco Rubio are calling for massive investigations to make sure the same thing with Absentee Ballots isn't going on in other districts around the country. You can't tell me for a second that if Mark Harris was a democrat that the GOP wouldn't be on every single media channel that would have them screaming about opening investigations into all Democratic districts around the country.




From my perspective these examples show how craven the GOP is for power and how unabashed they are at getting it and keeping it.
 
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#88
I wanted to stay out of this particular issue, even though I have strong opinions about the Kavanaugh situation, but I couldn't let the bit about media coverage go.

Voter Fraud in North Carolina -
Despite all of the fear mongering and false accusations from many leaders in the GOP about voter fraud here they are getting caught red handed trying to cheat and commit voter fraud to retain power. Somehow though this story isn't being covered wall to wall on outlets like Fox News like you would assume any story about Election Fraud would be seeing how much time they all go on the station to try to rile people up about the potential of it happening.
A cursory Google search would have shown you that's not true:

- Fraud allegations loom over North Carolina congressional race
- North Carolina Dem McCready retracts concession as GOP signals possible support for new House election
- Over 1,000 ballots may have been destroyed in NC congressional race, DA says
- Allegations of North Carolina voter fraud causes controversy
- Officials may toss House result over fraud
- Possible voter fraud probed in tight North Carolina House race
- In some of Fox’s only coverage of apparent GOP election fraud in North Carolina, host attacks California election laws

That's without even touching on their cable TV shows where the story had indeed come up, like The Five, Dana Perino, etc. All but one of those links above are from Fox News, the other is from Media Matters which pointed out the error in Shannon Bream's reporting while lying to their audience in the process. It's like American media is determined to keep Republican supporters and Democrat supporters as polarized as possible. I wonder what they could possibly gain by doing that? :unsure:
 

DietRob

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#89
I'm glad it's being covered. It doesn't change the reason it was posted. Thank you for letting me know though. I wonder when Marco Rubio will start talking about it.

also even in your own links it says the story isn't being covered much on Fox News.

edit - I'd really hate for this thread to get too far off topic and I've been responsible for that but Matt asked for some examples. This probably should have it's own thread but I don't want to create what could be a highly contentious thread.

Back to topic. I'm very excited about Beto. I think he possesses that very rare quality of being able to rally the base while also having that special something required to win over more moderate Dems and independents. He was able to win over plenty of independents in Texas which might be one of the more difficult places to do that so that's exciting. He's the type of candidate I can easily see myself working for like I did with Obama in 08.
 
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matt404au

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#90
OK, so I don't think you'll agree with some of these, maybe not any but here goes. I think these are some relatively recent examples of the modern day GOP putting power above morality and hypocrisy get in the way of power.

Kavenaugh - McConnell and the gang did everything they could to rush him through as quickly as possible. Even though as they all showed us with Garland these appointments are not time sensitive. The investigation could have been more comprehensive and most certainly would have been if it would have been a democrat who made the nomination. If they would have even let a democratic nominee get that far. This one shows both their lack of morality and hypocricy to fill the court with their nominees at any cost.

Roy Moore - The vast majority of the GOP stuck with him through most of his campagin. They did everything they could to smear his accusers and downplay the accusations. Everything from it was too long ago to matter to 'at least he's not a democrat' type of rhetoric. Meanwhile, lets look how they attacked someone like Franken. The accusations against him were also from quite a while back but that didn't matter at all. Thankfully my black sisters showed up in the Moore race and made sure he wasn't elected. But it was close way too close for someone with multiple sexual assualt accusations to be in an election. GOP voters didn't seem to care as much when 'their guy' is accused.


Fuckery in Wisconsin -
GOP hypocricy on full display here. Instead of listening to the will of the people who elected democratic leaders they are frantically trying to push through legislation that will greatly limit the power of the new Democrats coming into office. They are doing whatever they can to fight off the will of the voters and keep as much power as possible.


Voter Fraud in North Carolina -
Despite all of the fear mongering and false accusations from many leaders in the GOP about voter fraud here they are getting caught red handed trying to cheat and commit voter fraud to retain power. Somehow though this story isn't being covered wall to wall on outlets like Fox News like you would assume any story about Election Fraud would be seeing how much time they all go on the station to try to rile people up about the potential of it happening. We have blatant voter fraud going on in North Carolina and none of the usual suspects like Marco Rubio are calling for massive investigations to make sure the same thing with Absentee Ballots isn't going on in other districts around the country. You can't tell me for a second that if Mark Harris was a democrat that the GOP wouldn't be on every single media channel that would have them screaming about opening investigations into all Democratic districts around the country.




From my perspective these examples show how craven the GOP is for power and how unabashed they are at getting it and keeping it.
The Wisconsin and North Carolina stuff I'm not familiar with, so I won't address those.

On Kavanaugh, I completely disagree with you. The accusation was farcical from the get-go and the willingness of the Democrats to use a rape accusation as a political weapon should have received far more criticism than it did. I thought their behaviour was reprehensible and showed far less morality than anything the Republicans did in that scenario.

On Roy Moore, I didn't follow it as closely as the Kavanaugh situation, but again it seemed to me to be another case of rape accusations as political weapons. Whether there are 2 or 9 or 9000 accusers should be irrelevant. Look how many women Gloria Allred trotted out to accuse Trump of rape during the election campaign. Where are those women now? Why have we heard nothing about them since? These people know that the public buys into the accusation more if there is a larger number of accusers and they exploit that accordingly.

I don't discount that Republicans have done some terrible things over the years, especially in regards to holding back civil rights from homosexuals, but to me, false accusations as political weapons are just as bad, if not worse, especially if the people facilitating the false accusations want to hold themselves up as morally superior. Since your point is that Republicans aren't held to the same standard as Democrats, it's important to point out terrible things that Democrats have done for context. That's why I alluded to Clinton fucking interns in the Oval Office when you mentioned Trump's lack of integrity with the Stormy Daniels stuff. I have to say this because otherwise some moron will undoubtedly come in here armwaving about whataboutism.
 

DietRob

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#91
@matt404au I don't like that sexual assualt accusations are used as political weapons either. However, it seems both parties are doing it. The difference I was trying to point out is how each side responds. My opinion is GOP tends to care more about retaining power I thought that's what we were talking about here. Not how we feel about the use of the accusations.
 

matt404au

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#92
@matt404au I don't like that sexual assualt accusations are used as political weapons either. However, it seems both parties are doing it. The difference I was trying to point out is how each side responds. My opinion is GOP tends to care more about retaining power I thought that's what we were talking about here. Not how we feel about the use of the accusations.
I just don't see how you can accuse the GOP of casting aside all morality to retain power but not also accuse the DNC of it. You said that the DNC is held to a higher standard than the GOP but it seems to me that you are doing the exact opposite of that.
 

DietRob

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#93
I just don't see how you can accuse the GOP of casting aside all morality to retain power but not also accuse the DNC of it. You said that the DNC is held to a higher standard than the GOP but it seems to me that you are doing the exact opposite of that.
Because that's not what happens. The party at large condems it immediately and those people are cast out forced to immediately resign. Then the others examples I gave that don't have anything to do with sexual assualt. The ones you haven't heard of (which is kinda part of issue)
 

matt404au

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#94
Because that's not what happens. The party at large condems it immediately and those people are cast out forced to immediately resign. Then the others examples I gave that don't have anything to do with sexual assualt. The ones you haven't heard of (which is kinda part of issue)
I hadn't heard of them because they happened at the state level. I focus more on the federal level issues because those are the ones that have the most effect on what happens in my country.

The condemnation you refer to mostly takes the form of reactionary unpersoning in my estimation. I thought Al Franken was a dick, but I don't like the way he was outcast over a joke that was socially acceptable at the time it happened. I don't like applying shape-shifting social standards of the present to actions of the past. People don't know how to behave if they don't know what the rules are, especially so when we are talking about future behaviour in an environment for which people can only guess what the rules will be. I didn't like it when it happened to Franken or Gunn, and I don't like it now that it's happening to Kevin Hart. You are presenting this condemnation as though it is a positive thing and that the GOP's unwillingness to engage in the same behaviours is a negative, but I see it the opposite way because doing so only incentivises witch hunts.
 

DietRob

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#95
I hadn't heard of them because they happened at the state level. I focus more on the federal level issues because those are the ones that have the most effect on what happens in my country.

The condemnation you refer to mostly takes the form of reactionary unpersoning in my estimation. I thought Al Franken was a dick, but I don't like the way he was outcast over a joke that was socially acceptable at the time it happened. I don't like applying shape-shifting social standards of the present to actions of the past. People don't know how to behave if they don't know what the rules are, especially so when we are talking about future behaviour in an environment for which people can only guess what the rules will be. I didn't like it when it happened to Franken or Gunn, and I don't like it now that it's happening to Kevin Hart. You are presenting this condemnation as though it is a positive thing and that the GOP's unwillingness to engage in the same behaviours is a negative, but I see it the opposite way because doing so only incentivises witch hunts.
I never said I liked the mob mentality. The point has always been one party deals with it a way to protect their power and one doesn't. It seems that you've shifted the conversation away from the win at all costs opinion I am arguing and made the argument instead about strictly how sexual assualt accusations are used and handled.

I guess maybe we can agree to disagree and move on since we seem to be debating different points. And derailing the thread lol.
 

matt404au

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#96
I never said I liked the mob mentality. The point has always been one party deals with it a way to protect their power and one doesn't. It seems that you've shifted the conversation away from the win at all costs opinion I am arguing and made the argument instead about strictly how sexual assualt accusations are used and handled.

I guess maybe we can agree to disagree and move on since we seem to be debating different points. And derailing the thread lol.
I think you've got your political beer goggles on again and aren't applying your standards equally. I haven't shifted anything because I'm saying that the Democrats' use of false rape accusations also falls under the "win at all costs" mentality. They're completely willing to unravel due process, which should be a human right irrespective of gender, because they think it will help them win.

Is it really de-railing if there's no other activity we're interrupting? ;) I don't think we've gone too far off topic anyway. Conversations evolve, and this is a relevant tangent. I think what you're doing is trying to put the conversation on rails that will direct the train to your station.
 
Sep 4, 2018
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been thinking about the Obama comparisons. everyone is saying they want a new Obama, they think that means a charismatic personality. this is wrong.

Obama was a specific time and place, which was 8 years of Dems out of power and a grown public disdain for the war on terror. this was the era of The West Wing and Farenheit 9/11, when blaming W and the GOP for the war and abuses of state was en vogue. Obama promised many things that he did not deliver, shutting down Gitmo most symbolically, but there was an understanding that he would be a corrective against those things. that he would work against the ramping up of the military and drones and torture and spying. Obama was a reaction to the war on terror, however naive that ended up being.

of course he fucked everyone over, gave bailouts to multiple crooked dying industries, revved up the war machine, etc. but that is what he was elected on, HOPE. it was spelled out with the four letters in that stylish poster. what did the hope get us? jack shit. the ACA? if you live in the US you know it is laughable. this is part of why older people are more conservative, you live through this stuff and see nothing change, you get cynical.

Dems will lose on charisma alone, they need to promise genuine reforms, even if they are going to ultimately do nothing. that they won't even go that far, this is going to be a major problem for them.
 
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