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Obsidian is better than Blizzard, Bethesda, and Bioware all AT THE SAME TIME

One of the few developers that understand 'RPG' mechanics. Once they discover gameplay mechanics they will be at the top.

Lets not forget that they are an independent studio and don't have the backings of a huge publisher and everything I've read seems like they get treated like shit by the publishers to rush out a product to meet a deadline.
 
Red Blaster said:
people who like Fallout 3 over NV are the same people who think the Cheesecake Factory is haute cuisine because of how big the menu is
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I keep seeing these food analogies, and it actually annoys me. Most people that self-identify as gamers have the cultural acuity of a toaster. A more apt comparison would be between Hardee's and Wendy's.
 
Lol at people hating Obsidian. They did better RPGs than both Bioware and Betsheda combined.

But OMG teh buggssss everywhere !
I have like 600h in all their games and litelary i didn't have that much problems.


Also Betsheda should have get flack hate for their lack of QA in FNV (probably because they shortened dev cycle).
 
spirity said:
Gaf has already spoken on the matter.

oh.jpg


I expect to hear the usual array of excuses. Obsidian was tricked. They can't catch a break. Its not their fault, pubs screw them over. The industry is rotten. Its because they're so ambitious. They ran out of gas. They had a flat tire. They didn't have enough money for cab fare. Their tux's didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole their car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts! IT WASN'T OBSIDIANS FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD
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great post.

I feel like a good deal of Obsidian fans are masters at downplaying the usual issues their games have in favour of their incredible, mind blowing writing and strong RPG mechanics. We could have far better discussions if they simply accepted the fact
 
I enjoyed New Vegas and Alpha Protocol a lot. But I Loved all 3 Mass Effect titles! Fallout 3 was uglier than New Vegas, but i enjoyed the dlc and special weapons a lot more than those in New Vegas.

To solve arguments like this all you have to do is refer to Metacritic to see how the majority feels. Looks like Mass Effect>Alpha Protocol and Fallout 3>New Vegas.
 
Gillian Seed said:
I enjoyed New Vegas and Alpha Protocol a lot. But I Loved all 3 Mass Effect titles! Fallout 3 was uglier than New Vegas, but i enjoyed the dlc and special weapons a lot more than those in New Vegas.

To solve arguments like this all you have to do is refer to Metacritic to see how the majority feels. Looks like Mass Effect>Alpha Protocol and Fallout 3>New Vegas.
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Metacritic? Surely you jest.
 
Gillian Seed said:
To solve arguments like this all you have to do is refer to Metacritic to see how the majority feels. Looks like Mass Effect>Alpha Protocol and Fallout 3>New Vegas.
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That would depend on which score.

Metacritic score (game bloggers): Fallout 3 > New Vegas
User Score: New Vegas > Fallout 3

Judged both based on the PC version.
 
Perkel said:
Lol at people hating Obsidian. They did better RPGs than both Bioware and Betsheda combined.

But OMG teh buggssss everywhere !
I have like 600h in all their games and litelary i didn't have that much problems.
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I had no problems with a PS3 run of Skyrim. Yet, I doubt my experience was the norm. Obsidian is either bad at technical development, or terrible at time management. Nobody gets as big a free pass on this as Obsidian.

Gillian Seed said:
To solve arguments like this all you have to do is refer to Metacritic to see how the majority feels. Looks like Mass Effect>Alpha Protocol and Fallout 3>New Vegas.
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Oh hell.
 
DocSeuss said:
I know they did some design work on their own, things are overall better balanced (shooting isn't, though; shooting in Fallout 3 was competent, in New Vegas, I ran into far more "HE'S TWO FEET AWAY WHY DIDN'T I SHOOT HIM?" bits.
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wat

DocSeuss said:
Fallout 3 establishes a world, slightly abstracted [...] Places that exist, while occasionally cartoonish, still manage to maintain a consistent tone. It feels like an authentic place, albeit an unrealistic one.
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Fallout 3's world is a deliberately incoherent collection of cute vignettes that make no sense as an actual living breathing world. A town of precocious children somehow exists and survives minutes away from brutal raider gangs that overpower and skin grown men.

I get that you're pushing this "immersive sim" thing, but the reality is that Fallout 3 just wisely sticks to the "AAA" staples of empty spectacle and paddling pool deep mechanics. These are goals that are unfortunately highly valued by gamers as evidenced by the prevailing opinions on this very forum. Fallout 3 cleverly avoids giving the player any meaningful choice in how to go about its main plot as this means maximum effort can be put into non gameplay spectacle (the pointless giant robot bit, for example). New Vegas on the otherhand has one of the most complex branching overall plot systems ever seen in a videogame with an insane amount of careful fall throughs allowing the player to back out of helping different groups at different times and allowing even someone mindlessly killing everything to work towards a coherent end goal. This mammoth undertaking is valued by pretty much no one as it doesn't have Liam Neeson (he was in real films you know) pretending to be your "Dad" in it.

DocSeuss said:
On top of this, New Vegas has spawn areas that exist more like Zones for Specific Levels. Fallout 3 has some areas populated by people who are tougher than the player (so it's best to avoid them until you've leveled up),
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This is literally the opposite of how the games work. One word: "Cazadores".
 
Currygan said:
great post.

I feel like a good deal of Obsidian fans are masters at downplaying the usual issues their games have in favour of their incredible, mind blowing writing and strong RPG mechanics. We could have far better discussions if they simply accepted the fact
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I'm not sure what you mean. What is it that Obsidian fans are supposed to accept?

RPG mechanics and quest design are pretty important since no one is playing these games for the combat.


Perkel said:
I have like 600h in all their games and litelary i didn't have that much problems.
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I don't think this is very productive. The bugginess of many of the games we're discussing is well documented. Your personal experience doesn't make Obsidian's (or Bethesda's, or Bioware's) QA any better.
 
Currygan said:
I feel like a good deal of Obsidian fans are masters at downplaying the usual issues their games have in favour of their incredible, mind blowing writing and strong RPG mechanics. We could have far better discussions if they simply accepted the fact
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I feel like people that hate on Obsidian or its fans have a hard time coming to terms with the fact that those fans really do not consider the so-called "jank" that makes their games unpalatable for some all that significant. We could have far better discussions if they simply accepted the fact.


IceDoesntHelp said:
I hate when people mention Alpha Protocol is good, I can't get past the two hour mark in that game...its just so average
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If Alpha Protocol was an average game I'd be so incredibly jubilant at the state of gaming that I wouldn't know what to do with all my overflowing enthusiasm. I believe both people that love it and those that hate it can agree that it's very different from almost all other games on the market.
 
Mxrz said:
I had no problems with a PS3 run of Skyrim. Yet, I doubt my experience was the norm. Obsidian is either bad at technical development, or terrible at time management. Nobody gets as big a free pass on this as Obsidian.
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Given how many people bitch and moan about bugs in EVERY Obsidian thread, how the fuck could you possibly think Obsidian get a free pass on it? If anyone gets a free pass for technically crippled games, it's Bethesda. I mean shit, how long did it take for the enthusiast press to even dare bring up the fact that the PS3 version was nigh unplayable? And even when they did, it was really only Eurogamer that gave it any significant kind of attention.
 
Mxrz said:
I had no problems with a PS3 run of Skyrim. Yet, I doubt my experience was the norm. Obsidian is either bad at technical development, or terrible at time management. Nobody gets as big a free pass on this as Obsidian.


Oh hell.
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Oh hell what? lol It just shows what the majority thinks about games. Many of my buddies despised Alpha Protocol because like all Obsidian games it was so buggy. So i can understand the general consensus. I still really enjoy most of Obsidian's games, and i will be stoked if they give us KOTOR 3!
 
spirity said:
Gaf has already spoken on the matter.

oh.jpg


I expect to hear the usual array of excuses. Obsidian was tricked. They can't catch a break. Its not their fault, pubs screw them over. The industry is rotten. Its because they're so ambitious. They ran out of gas. They had a flat tire. They didn't have enough money for cab fare. Their tux's didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole their car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts! IT WASN'T OBSIDIANS FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD
Click to expand...

The reason I'm looking forward to PE is that this time they have no excuses. Or at least it will be interesting to see how creative their defenders can get in coming up with excuses for PE.
 
Currygan said:
no, not at all

a videogame is not made with decent writing only
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Good thing that New Vegas has awesome gameplay as well!

Have you ever hunted coyote at night in the dessert before? New Vegas captures that feeling pretty well. (not the coyote part but the sense of isolation, the desert environment, and of course being armed and ready)

I know that's a weird aspect of the game to pinpoint as being immersive, but New Vegas does it really really well. Such an awesome game.
 
Last Hearth said:
The reason I'm looking forward to PE is that this time they have no excuses. Or at least it will be interesting to see how creative their defenders can get in coming up with excuses for PE.
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What makes you think that Eternity should need any "excuses"?

I mean, I can see a future where Eternity only gets middling review scores and Obsidian haters use that as an argument, but that would be pretty stupid. If they accomplish what they set out to do with the kickstarter it won't be a game that scores well in mainstream publications.
 
LiquidSolid said:
Given how many people bitch and moan about bugs in EVERY Obsidian thread, how the fuck could you possibly think Obsidian get a free pass on it? If anyone gets a free pass for technically crippled games, it's Bethesda. I mean shit, how long did it take for the enthusiast press to even dare bring up the fact that the PS3 version was nigh unplayable? And even when they did, it was really only Eurogamer that gave it any significant kind of attention.
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A free pass from us, their fans. We make excuses for them, we rage on their behalf, and in the end we just accept it. Its remarkable that I buy Obsidian games knowing full well what I'm getting into. I've sworn "Never again!" so many times, and yet there I am at each release.
 
IceDoesntHelp said:
I hate when people mention Alpha Protocol is good, I can't get past the two hour mark in that game...its just so average
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You can't see why it's good till you've played it multiple times and realize that it's one of a few games in history to give you actual real choice in the narrative and not bs choices that either have no impact on the outcome or tie all the choices together in a bundle of irrelevance
 
ElectricBlue187 said:
You can't see why it's good till you've played it multiple times and realize that it's one of a few games in history to give you actual real choice in the narrative and not bs choices that either have no impact on the outcome or tie all the choices together in a bundle of irrelevance
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Then, even if everything you said is true, what is the fucking point?
 
I agree with everything accept for DSIII being better than D3.

DSIII is pretty much entirely forgettable, it's not really anything special. For all of D3's flaws, it's a far better game than that.
 
Durante said:
What makes you think that Eternity should need any "excuses"?

I mean, I can see a future where Eternity only gets middling review scores and Obsidian haters use that as an argument, but that would be pretty stupid. If they accomplish what they set out to do with the kickstarter it won't be a game that scores well in mainstream publications.
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Because every game they've ever made has needed them.
 
ElectricBlue187 said:
Because its good? I don't really know what you're asking here.
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You literally just told someone that was having trouble with the first two hours of the game, that you would have to beat the game multiple times to figure out that the game is in fact good rather than shit.


If you don't see the issue there I don't know what to tell you.
 
BigTnaples said:
You literally just told someone that was having trouble with the first two hours of the game, that you would have to beat the game multiple times to figure out that the game is in fact good rather than shit.


If you don't see the issue there I don't know what to tell you.
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It's not like it's a super long game or something. I'm not trying to tell you that it's perfect or that it's the best game evarrr. I'm telling you that the best part of the game, the raison d'etre doesn't become clear within the first few hours of playing it and if that's all you're going to play it then you're wasting your time
 
Playing AP is very much like playing Deadly Premonition. You want to hear all the dialogue but the actual gameplay is just so bad.
 
The only thing that concerns me about Obsidian lately is Project Eternity. Why go with the most bland and generic fantasy setting when you can do literally anything? I still have it backed and am excited to play it, but still.
 
IceDoesntHelp said:
I hate when people mention Alpha Protocol is good, I can't get past the two hour mark in that game...its just so average
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That's because you can't see the full application of their branching narrative and choice and consequence system in two hours. Considering the tutorial area can take... what... an hour of its own?

Also, the beginning level has one of the longest choice consequences in the game. Choosing to kill or spare Shaheed doesn't pay off until the very last act of the game.

The reason ElectricBlue187 says it takes multiple playthroughs to really realize the effects of your choices is because the game is so well developed to make the consequences of your actions naturally guide the direction of the story. It's light on the moments of "You choose A at this location thus you get this scripted scene instead of something else!" A lot of the choices you make have very subtle effects that you'll notice if you play it a second time.

I agree that Obsidian makes some of the best RPGs but I don't understand the comparison to Blizzard since they don't make the same type of games. I wouldn't count WoW.
 
I really hope Bethesda never outsources a Fallout or ES game ever again. I enjoyed Skyrim and Fallout 3 the most.

I do have Alpha Protocol laying here waiting to be played, will pick that up soon.
 
Sliver said:
The only thing that concerns me about Obsidian lately is Project Eternity. Why go with the most bland and generic fantasy setting when you can do literally anything? I still have it backed and am excited to play it, but still.
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I think it's because when they think IE engine games fans, they think fans of BG and IWD series' (and to a lesser extent PST) and that's who they tried to appeal to the most.

Though I agree with your statement. I'm actually more excited for Numenera: Torment despite knowing nothing about it yet.
 
burnfout said:
I really hope Bethesda never outsources a Fallout or ES game ever again. I enjoyed Skyrim and Fallout 3 the most.

I do have Alpha Protocol laying here waiting to be played, will pick that up soon.
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Probably shouldn't bother if you prefer games like Skyrim.
 
What about Shadowrun Returns & Cyperpunk, OP?

...a bit worried about WL2 now, forgot Obsidian is aiding and they have their hands full with their own stuff on top...
 
spirity said:
Gaf has already spoken on the matter.

oh.jpg


I expect to hear the usual array of excuses. Obsidian was tricked. They can't catch a break. Its not their fault, pubs screw them over. The industry is rotten. Its because they're so ambitious. They ran out of gas. They had a flat tire. They didn't have enough money for cab fare. Their tux's didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole their car. There was an earthquake. A terrible flood. Locusts! IT WASN'T OBSIDIANS FAULT, I SWEAR TO GOD
Click to expand...

GAF has also voted MGS4 and Journey as their respective game of the years.
 
There is more at play than "writing" for Obsidian games. "Gameplay" is a stupid word, but it becomes even worse when people use it to exclude role-playing mechanics (and I'm not talking about "roll-playing" either). "Plot interaction" (which is really just another way of thinking about (meaningful) interaction which has the most satisfying in-game payoff) is one of the most important areas of game design and currently pretty underdeveloped. Obsidian is pretty stellar at that. Games like Alpha Protocol are games on the frontier (and personally they make other games look bad, e.g. The Walking Dead).

Obsidian games do lack polish, yes, but it is not like I'm inconsistent in my disregard for polish. As for obsessive fans, well, I'll let them speak for themselves.

Zia said:
I keep seeing these food analogies, and it actually annoys me. Most people that self-identify as gamers have the cultural acuity of a toaster. A more apt comparison would be between Hardee's and Wendy's.
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Look, you don't need to try extra hard on selling your aloof hipster persona.
 
Last Hearth said:
The reason I'm looking forward to PE is that this time they have no excuses. Or at least it will be interesting to see how creative their defenders can get in coming up with excuses for PE.
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Excuses wont be needed, except for those who erroneously believed to had actually played a WRPG in the past, but find themselves lost in PE.
 
Riposte said:
Look, you don't need to try extra hard on selling your aloof hipster persona.
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Yes, being so clueless and insular as to compare two very similar works of ghetto media to the gap between a chain restaurant and a fine dining experience is fine. Sorry. I'm the one that is aloof. ; )
 
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