Ocasio-Cortez believes "tax cuts" can pay for free college. Doesn't understand what tax cuts are (Amazon 2.0)

Voost Kain

Daily Mail headline writer
Jun 6, 2015
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Embattled Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez doubled-down on her calls for total student loan forgiveness Wednesday evening; bizarrely suggesting tax cuts could be used to finance her massive proposal.
“Cost of the GOP Tax Scam for the rich: ~$1.8-2.3 Trillion. Cost of forgiving all student loans in America: ~$1.5 Trillion. Clearly where there’s a will, there’s a way. When people say that there isn’t ‘enough’ to do these things, what they mean is they don’t *want* to do them,” posted Cortez on social media.
Cortez made similar comments weeks ago when she suggested New York could use Amazon’s proposed tax breaks to fix the region’s crumbling infrastructure and hire more teachers.
What's hilarious about this is that she and her allies who DC'ed the Amazon issue saying that she fully understood what was going on, have basically been proven wrong by Cortez herself, she still doesn't understand how tax cuts work.

But it's in the name, TAX CUT, you cut the taxes, the tax cut is not money, if it was what the heck would you even be cutting?
 
Apr 18, 2018
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#6
Seems she is saying that without the tax cuts they would have enough money for free college, not that new tax cuts could be used to pay for it
That's not how tax cuts work. It's not money on the table. It's a negotiating tactic that the government can use to subsidize the economy. It's not always an appropriate measure but it has its purpose. A tax cut means that a business builds something in such-and-such town. The amount of taxes now gathered from that town is greater than before. The government has given away zero dollars and is now gathering taxes on the business conducted there, often double and triple dipping along the way (sales tax, property tax, etc). The government is making more money by providing this tax cut.

"Free college", on the other hand, implies that the the government would be expending funds to supply that for free. In other words, it isn't even potential money left on the table. It's actual money spent on something. And if our garbage healthcare was any indication, the costs of a college education would skyrocket if we began offering it for "free".
 
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Mar 12, 2014
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So would they cut people like me who worked their way through college a check?
Don't be silly. The only fair way to handle your situation is to make you pay a couple more times for those who didn't work their way through college. That wasn't your money that you paid with. That was the government's money that they let you keep.
 

Voost Kain

Daily Mail headline writer
Jun 6, 2015
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Don't be silly. The only fair way to handle your situation is to make you pay a couple more times for those who didn't work their way through college. That wasn't your money that you paid with. That was the government's money that they let you keep.
Soon Washington D.C. will be renamed Ocasiograd. The brewskis are coming back boys! Poverty and food lines YES!

actually on second thought-
 
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Likes: StriderJ87
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So would they cut people like me who worked their way through college a check?
I paid my school loans in full too. Both undergrad and grad degrees.

I'm not American, so her idea wouldn't apply anyway, but if I was American I wouldn't mind some free money to give me a break too.

What's the fuck of paying back a student loan if other people pay it for me?
 

Arkage

Gold Member
Sep 25, 2012
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Seems she is saying that without the tax cuts they would have enough money for free college, not that new tax cuts could be used to pay for it
What, are you telling me OP created an intentionally dishonest framing of her statement in order to generate a fake news headline for GAF's very own OAC hatred boner fanbase?

You don't say. :messenger_weary:

It's not money on the table. It's a negotiating tactic
True, the tax cuts for the rich were a negotiating tactic to incentive the donors class to give them money for campaign elections. Tax cuts for the wealthy directly take money off the table for the government to spend on things like, say, college loan forgiveness.
 
Apr 15, 2018
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What, are you telling me OP created an intentionally dishonest framing of her statement in order to generate a fake news headline for GAF's very own OAC hatred boner fanbase?

You don't say. :messenger_weary:



True, the tax cuts for the rich were a negotiating tactic to incentive the donors class to give them money for campaign elections. Tax cuts for the wealthy directly take money off the table for the government to spend on things like, say, college loan forgiveness.
Do you actually think about the policies you support, it do you just knee jerk applaud because AOC said so?


Loan forgiveness is a dumb idea. Trying to justify it by hiding behind a critique of tax cuts is silly
 
Apr 18, 2018
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dunpachi.com
#20
True, the tax cuts for the rich were a negotiating tactic to incentive the donors class to give them money for campaign elections. Tax cuts for the wealthy directly take money off the table for the government to spend on things like, say, college loan forgiveness.
I acknowledge that dirty tax deals are a part of the equation, and sadly our country has suffered from that for at least 100 years. Prohibition and organized crime played a big role there. But that's getting a bit sidetracked.

My point is that dirty tax cuts can certainly be used in that way, but are you claiming that all tax cuts are inherently a pro-elite, anti-American thing? I don't agree with that opinions. Tax cuts are a tool the gov't can use for good or for greed. I think that's abundantly clear if you look back in history of any Westernized country. Some are handled well. Some are handled poorly.
 
Oct 16, 2012
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She is literally the Trump of the left. Conservatives are falling into the same trap that liberals fell into in 2016. They should just ignore her and she would probably go away, but for some reason conservative media keep giving her attention.
 

cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
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I have a better idea, stop sending kids to college and send them to trade schools. Of courses leftist and progressive want everyone to go to college, its where they indoctrine people. They basically control 90% of academia and shun/threaten/cleanse as many conservatives as they can from campus.

I mean AOC went to colleges, graduated with honors and then ended up working as a waitress until a casting director plucked her out of obscurity to play the role of a congresswomen. Think about it if AOC can't get a job in her field and she is in congress, what are the chances for all these gender studies and other soft science people getting jobs that can pay off their debts?
 
Apr 18, 2018
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#23
She is literally the Trump of the left. Conservatives are falling into the same trap that liberals fell into in 2016. They should just ignore her and she would probably go away, but for some reason conservative media keep giving her attention.
Nah, she's not some Yu Gi Oh trap card 4D Chess maneuver. She was elected in New York before rising to any major national notoriety. She is making power plays and is defying people in her own party. Left-leaning outlets report on these same things she's saying, and even other Democrats have called her out.

Or have the goldfish already forgotten her very publicly tanking the Amazon deal?
 
Oct 26, 2018
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I have a better idea, stop sending kids to college and send them to trade schools. Of courses leftist and progressive want everyone to go to college, its where they indoctrine people. They basically control 90% of academia and shun/threaten/cleanse as many conservatives as they can from campus.

I mean AOC went to colleges, graduated with honors and then ended up working as a waitress until a casting director plucked her out of obscurity to play the role of a congresswomen. Think about it if AOC can't get a job in her field and she is in congress, what are the chances for all these gender studies and other soft science people getting jobs that can pay off their debts?
Hard to do as most young people don't want to get their hands dirty.
 

JORMBO

Darkness no more
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I went to a reasonable college, majored in something worthwhile and paid back my loans. Too many people want to go to pricey schools today and major in dumb stuff that isn’t going to ever land them a job.

I have a better idea, stop sending kids to college and send them to trade schools. Of courses leftist and progressive want everyone to go to college, its where they indoctrine people. They basically control 90% of academia and shun/threaten/cleanse as many conservatives as they can from campus.

I mean AOC went to colleges, graduated with honors and then ended up working as a waitress until a casting director plucked her out of obscurity to play the role of a congresswomen. Think about it if AOC can't get a job in her field and she is in congress, what are the chances for all these gender studies and other soft science people getting jobs that can pay off their debts?
As a homeowner I agree with this. If I was young right now I would go in to a trade. There’s such a shortage of good trades people and everyone around here is working non stop.
 
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Mar 4, 2014
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AOC believes in Modern Monetary Theory per the Green New Deal, so why even mention how to pay for it? Debts and deficits are irrelevant according to MMT, so just make college free.
 
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Tc is proof that jackasses run rampant and free on the internet.
If its anyone who lacks understanding its Tc and we have this turd of a topic as proof.

Moor proof that the average American has little to no understanding of math.
 
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I went to a reasonable college, majored in something worthwhile and paid back my loans. Too many people want to go to pricey schools today and major in dumb stuff that isn’t going to ever land them a job.



As a homeowner I agree with this. If I was young right now I would go in to a trade. There’s such a shortage of good trades people and everyone around here is working non stop.
I work in a "trade" we work non stop because we make peanuts. But yay i work alot!
 
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A tax cut means that a business builds something in such-and-such town.
Why do you believe that?

For example, when Pres. Trump's team cut taxes, he didn't unleash rapid investment and growth. It's poor bang for buck policy.

Now granted, it's better than what the Democrats and NeverTrumpers want to do i.e. raise taxes and cut spending. But America could compete on the world stage when it comes to stuff like infrastructure, health care, and mobility if it had better priorities. America can definitely afford to be among the greatest in the world across a wide variety of metrics.
 
Oct 1, 2006
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What, are you telling me OP created an intentionally dishonest framing of her statement in order to generate a fake news headline for GAF's very own OAC hatred boner fanbase?

You don't say. :messenger_weary:



True, the tax cuts for the rich were a negotiating tactic to incentive the donors class to give them money for campaign elections. Tax cuts for the wealthy directly take money off the table for the government to spend on things like, say, college loan forgiveness.
It's not on the table until the government collects it and takes possession.
 
Apr 15, 2018
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AOC believes in Modern Monetary Theory per the Green New Deal, so why even mention how to pay for it? Debts and deficits are irrelevant according to MMT, so just make college free.
That's actually a fantastic point. Now she cares about balancing budgets and tax cuts after preaching the gospel that debt is good.

I work in a "trade" we work non stop because we make peanuts. But yay i work alot!
Uh huh. And guess what the gender studies graduates aren't doing?
 
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OSC

Banned
Jun 16, 2018
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The current restrictions are out of necessity. Master computation master energy master time and they will no longer be needed.

U can work at that hardware level, at the level of algorithm design and mathematics, or at the theoretical level. I work at all levels in all areas, there is nothing I cannot do when I subject something to the assault of my thought.

I will master the art of mixture of ideas combination of concepts the art of philosphy at a fundamental level so as to produce artificial minds and gold unlimited resources nuclear fusion and homunculi or ai.

My patience is up to zero now, so I'm cutting all the strings and letting things loose.
 
Apr 18, 2018
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#38
Why do you believe that?

For example, when Pres. Trump's team cut taxes, he didn't unleash rapid investment and growth. It's poor bang for buck policy.

Now granted, it's better than what the Democrats and NeverTrumpers want to do i.e. raise taxes and cut spending. But America could compete on the world stage when it comes to stuff like infrastructure, health care, and mobility if it had better priorities. America can definitely afford to be among the greatest in the world across a wide variety of metrics.
I "believe" it because what I described is what a tax cut has been used for.

I'm not implying that every tax cut is used so effectively or honestly (as I stated in a later post), but nonetheless the tax cut is a tool that can be used to stimulate or preserve elements of the economy, just like bank bailouts or subsidies are used to impact the market.

I also don't believe that so-called "fairer taxes" (i.e. higher taxes) on corporations are the answer to our problems. Don't misunderstand: I am not saying that I am against higher taxes in certain markets right now.

However, Democrats used this excuse for decades for our school systems ("If only our teachers would be paid more, then [inner-city kid] wouldn't have turned to a life of drugs. Fixing the inner city starts with education, and education starts with more money!") and I only see these schools getting worse. Consider me unimpressed with the "give the gov't more money and they'll fix it, we promise". I believe in the principle of faithful in little, faithful in much. Taxing the rich at a higher rate isn't going to magically give us a vibrant social healthcare option or better infrastructure, because the current state of those things is not due to a lack of total money. Throwing more money at our current implementation will only keep the zombie alive when it needs to be buried.

A tax cut can also be used as a favor or bribe. That's obviously the case in our own history. That's called 'corruption'. It is a perversion of the original purpose of a tax cut but remains a separate matter.
 

i_am_ben

running_here_and_there
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The title of this thread doesn't match the supposed proof in the OP.

Is it too much to ask for accurate OPs?
 
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#41
Terrible thread. What she said makes sense. Ironically, debt relief is also taxable as income. Magically wiping off 25k of student loans would make the recipients owe the tax for it also. Government kind of partially wins even with the debt relief.
 
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#42
Terrible thread. What she said makes sense. Ironically, debt relief is also taxable as income. Magically wiping off 25k of student loans would make the recipients owe the tax for it also. Government kind of partially wins even with the debt relief.
Do you think that people who chose to do Gender Studies or other low employability degrees should have their debt waived? Should people who paid their way through college get a refund?
 
Jan 20, 2018
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#43
Do you think that people who chose to do Gender Studies or other low employability degrees should have their debt waived? Should people who paid their way through college get a refund?
It is an option I think that could be considered for those who truly are in need. (Though this may cause some to try and be in need to qualify).

It doesn't seem possible to afford however. It would have to be like a one time thing or it would encourage people to go rack up college debts moreso.
 
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#44
What is your issue with that? Reducing income or increasing spending have the same impact on the bottom line. She is saying that the reduction of income through tax breaks for the rich have a larger impact on the bottom line than forgiving all student loans. I do not know whether the numbers are correct, but assuming they are, this is not a false equivalency.
 
Apr 15, 2018
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What is your issue with that? Reducing income or increasing spending have the same impact on the bottom line. She is saying that the reduction of income through tax breaks for the rich have a larger impact on the bottom line than forgiving all student loans. I do not know whether the numbers are correct, but assuming they are, this is not a false equivalency.
It's a stupid policy that further devalues college degrees, and will encourage schools to increase their costs even further. We've seen tuition costs soar because government guranteed a certain amount of financial aid. What do you think will happen when tuition is guranteed to be paid no matter how much you jack it?

Hiding behind "tax cuts"(by the way, I'm assuming she thinks we will never have a recession again or what) is just a pretty face on a dumb idea.
 
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Likes: matt404au
Oct 26, 2018
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Free tuition for everyone!

Awesome. What you'll get is tons of no-name privatized schools opening up and taking anyone knowing the government will pay the tab.

A ton of people getting credentials from institutions nobody has heard of, where HR will just ignore it on grads' resumes.

If the government wants to be generous, they should reward the people who did well, where they contribute back by paying tons of income taxes over the next decade or two.

This would reward people for doing it, and encourage people to go after degrees that have value and not just pick a floater program because "they just want to get any piece of paper".. Not everyone is stupid. Kids know which kinds of career fields are the hot ones that pay well, and ones like some history degree is basically useless you want to be a teacher. And there's always the steady ones like business degrees, and anything related to medical/science.

This would hopefully gear kids to picking good career fields that have good prospects. And careers in fields that are growing should lead to more jobs and grads employed. And it will encourage people to do better by getting better jobs. The more income tax you pay over your career, the more you get back from the gov.

Do well and later on the government will see how much you contributed back, and they give you a refund back to reward you.

The complete opposite of the usual tax grabs where middle-incomers and up get pinched to cover losers.
 
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