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Stitch

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So apparently making the ok symbol is now the same as wearing a swastika or openly calling a black person the n word.
The kid is racist too

 

Bitmap Frogs

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She wants to abolish the electoral college, so not reasonable, but more reasonable than the others.
To be fair, the electoral college is a fucked way of electing someone. I get it, it's tradition, but one-circunscription naitonal suffrage is the way to go. One man, one vote.
 

matt404au

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To be fair, the electoral college is a fucked way of electing someone. I get it, it's tradition, but one-circunscription naitonal suffrage is the way to go. One man, one vote.
If you wanna hand over the keys to the country to California and New York, sure. Enjoy your new liberal socialist dystopia though. You think wealth inequality is bad now? You ain’t seen nothing yet. The EC is the last line of defense ensuring cultural diversity and that America remains America.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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If you wanna hand over the keys to the country to California and New York, sure. Enjoy your new liberal socialist dystopia though. You think wealth inequality is bad now? You ain’t seen nothing yet. The EC is the last line of defense ensuring cultural diversity and that America remains America.
I don't buy this.

The troll genie is out of the bottle. Even if something "catastrophic" happened like an abolishment of the EC, we still have courts, and Congress, and we still have the march of time. We banned alcohol for 13 years a century ago in the USA. When I think back on that, it boggles my mind. How did they pull it off? How could those women gain so much political clout and influence in such short a time? Try to put yourself in the mindset of people from that year: darnit, the women just gained the right to vote, and they immediately take away alcohol. It must've felt like a dystopian nightmare to some people who didn't want this kind of authoritarian influence in their government. I mean, it's kind of funny when we look back, but to them it was rather serious, apocalyptic, even.

Yet, the USA remains. Prohibition is gone and it didn't even take a war -- civil or extant -- to force it to happen. It was enacted and repealed in the decades between the World Wars, a peacetime legislation. Sharp rise of crime on the street. Lots of immigration into the USA, the likes we hadn't yet seen.

I think we could survive the removal of the EC, even though I staunchly oppose it being removed in the first place.
 

#Phonepunk#

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remove the EC and you will for sure have a Civil War 2. states aren't going to just give up all their already waning power.

the coastal elites already have far more undue influence in politics and culture through hoarding of wealth and media production. they have monopolized news, film, tv, online, social media, streaming, tech, etc. so many sectors of the culture, they are largely in control of national narratives. this is plainly apparently to the rest of us who live in the so-called "flyover states".

we already think the game is rigged against us, that's why Trump got elected. getting rid of the EC would be a full plunge off the cliff. if you want to see that 2nd Amendment in action try taking away our vote. no taxation without representation.
 
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NickFire

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I don't buy this.

The troll genie is out of the bottle. Even if something "catastrophic" happened like an abolishment of the EC, we still have courts, and Congress, and we still have the march of time. We banned alcohol for 13 years a century ago in the USA. When I think back on that, it boggles my mind. How did they pull it off? How could those women gain so much political clout and influence in such short a time? Try to put yourself in the mindset of people from that year: darnit, the women just gained the right to vote, and they immediately take away alcohol. It must've felt like a dystopian nightmare to some people who didn't want this kind of authoritarian influence in their government. I mean, it's kind of funny when we look back, but to them it was rather serious, apocalyptic, even.

Yet, the USA remains. Prohibition is gone and it didn't even take a war -- civil or extant -- to force it to happen. It was enacted and repealed in the decades between the World Wars, a peacetime legislation. Sharp rise of crime on the street. Lots of immigration into the USA, the likes we hadn't yet seen.

I think we could survive the removal of the EC, even though I staunchly oppose it being removed in the first place.
I disagree. The party that controls the two states that would decide every election will never compromise with the other side on issues that matter to the other side. You either bend to their will, or get destroyed if you refuse. That's why most of the active right leaning people on social media are quite often the embarrassing drunken Thanksgiving uncle types. Most people doing ok or well in life, who are not immune by wealth, keep their mouth shut while the lunatics on the other side are ranting and raving all day and getting cheered for it. Just look at the poor bastard that objected to baking cakes that violated his religious beliefs. Sure he eventually won in court, but I bet the legal fees to win exceeded the monetary value of the fight.

If you take away social media from the equation, we'd probably do ok. But for all the good it brings, it also brought back tribal mob mentality behavior that prevents compromise. Without a willingness to compromise, this country would fracture once 48 states opinions are made irrelevant.
 
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matt404au

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I don't buy this.

The troll genie is out of the bottle. Even if something "catastrophic" happened like an abolishment of the EC, we still have courts, and Congress, and we still have the march of time. We banned alcohol for 13 years a century ago in the USA. When I think back on that, it boggles my mind. How did they pull it off? How could those women gain so much political clout and influence in such short a time? Try to put yourself in the mindset of people from that year: darnit, the women just gained the right to vote, and they immediately take away alcohol. It must've felt like a dystopian nightmare to some people who didn't want this kind of authoritarian influence in their government. I mean, it's kind of funny when we look back, but to them it was rather serious, apocalyptic, even.

Yet, the USA remains. Prohibition is gone and it didn't even take a war -- civil or extant -- to force it to happen. It was enacted and repealed in the decades between the World Wars, a peacetime legislation. Sharp rise of crime on the street. Lots of immigration into the USA, the likes we hadn't yet seen.

I think we could survive the removal of the EC, even though I staunchly oppose it being removed in the first place.
I’m not seeing the similarities between the prohibition of alcohol and the abolishment of the electoral college. With alcohol, clearly there were unintended consequences that affected the people who voted for it to the point that they changed their minds and reversed the decision. If the electoral college is abolished and the power is concentrated in the homogenous liberal mega cities, what could possibly cause them to reconsider? A bunch of white coal miners living in abject poverty, addicted to opioids? They’d be too far away to affect the coastal elites. They wouldn’t care anyway because they’re white and have no intersectionality points. We’re talking about the distribution of political power, not the availability of alcohol.
 
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NickFire

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I’m not seeing the similarities between the prohibition of alcohol and the abolishment of the electoral college. With alcohol, clearly there were unintended consequences that affected the people who voted for it to the point that they changed their minds and reversed the decision. If the electoral college is abolished and the power is concentrated in the homogenous liberal mega cities, what could possibly cause them to reconsider? A bunch of white coal miners living in abject poverty, addicted to opioids? They’d be too far away to affect the coastal elites. They wouldn’t care anyway because they’re white and have no intersectionality points. We’re talking about the distribution of political power, not the availability of alcohol.
Spot on. Let's look at one narrow issue. Illegal immigration. 6 years ago both parties publicly agreed it was not something to condone. Then Trump gets elected, in part, because a ton of people believe the issue has been ignored, and the issue drives down wages and adds absurd costs to public schools, etc. So obviously, you would expect both parties to come together and work on the issue that swung an election, especially since they all agreed on it just a couple years prior, right? Surely you wouldn't expect the people from NY and CA to instead call everyone they once agreed with racist, and do everything in their power to make illegal immigration worse, right? Obviously something that important to the majority of states would be addressed instead of made worse because of how much the Dems hate Republicans, right?
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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I disagree. The party that controls the two states that would decide every election will never compromise with the other side on issues that matter to the other side. You either bend to their will, or get destroyed if you refuse. That's why most of the active right leaning people on social media are quite often the embarrassing drunken Thanksgiving uncle types. Most people doing ok or well in life, who are not immune by wealth, keep their mouth shut while the lunatics on the other side are ranting and raving all day and getting cheered for it. Just look at the poor bastard that objected to baking cakes that violated his religious beliefs. Sure he eventually won in court, but I bet the legal fees to win exceeded the monetary value of the fight.

If you take away social media from the equation, we'd probably do ok. But for all the good it brings, it also brought back tribal mob mentality behavior that prevents compromise. Without a willingness to compromise, this country would fracture once 48 states opinions are made irrelevant.
Eventually they would have to compromise. I brought up prohibition because it had negative consequences yet didn't destroy the country, either. Social media is a paper tiger. The power people currently wield through social media is only as strong as the people who participate in the platform. After enough normies go "ouch, I don't like getting permanently smeared or lambasted on this fun social tool I'm using, I'm out of here" then the tool loses its power.

Somehow the USA even survived the rise of socialism and communism in our borders. We'll get by. Our own history proves that malicious ideologues never hold power in this country for too long. There are so many hurdles to overcome if one wanted to actually remove the EC anyway.

I’m not seeing the similarities between the prohibition of alcohol and the abolishment of the electoral college. With alcohol, clearly there were unintended consequences that affected the people who voted for it to the point that they changed their minds and reversed the decision.
The point is that a surge of new voters rose up (women + immigrants) and pushed through one of the most insane social controls the modern world has seen. We banned alcohol. Yet it was rolled back within 13 years. Even if some new populist rising happens to get the EC suspended or removed, it will get rolled back and the party responsible will permanently fall out of power. Various groups and political parties have pushed against the constitution and even altered it (as in the case of Prohibition), yet the country self-corrected.

Just like I don't buy the idea of runaway climate change, I don't buy the idea of runaaway political damage. The country is designed to flex and self-correct. We'd find a way to fix it.

If the electoral college is abolished and the power is concentrated in the homogenous liberal mega cities, what could possibly cause them to reconsider? A bunch of white coal miners living in abject poverty, addicted to opioids? They’d be too far away to affect the coastal elites. They wouldn’t care anyway because they’re white and have no intersectionality points. We’re talking about the distribution of political power, not the availability of alcohol.
Running out of cheap food might do it. While alcohol isn't quite the same thing as a gross concentration of political power, the same force of moral authority was behind the ban.
 

NickFire

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Somehow the USA even survived the rise of socialism and communism in our borders.
You're kinda jumping the gun on that one. From my little corner of the country, it seems we are either one or two votes away from full blown socialism taking over. One impeachment trial vote, and one general election vote.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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You're kinda jumping the gun on that one. From my little corner of the country, it seems we are either one or two votes away from full blown socialism taking over. One impeachment trial vote, and one general election vote.
Don't believe Ondore's lies. The USA is a big place and it's not going to crumble to socialism any time soon. Coffers run dry. Social programs break down. The surge of the economy itself will inoculate at least one generation against the ideology.
 
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matt404au

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Eventually they would have to compromise. I brought up prohibition because it had negative consequences yet didn't destroy the country, either. Social media is a paper tiger. The power people currently wield through social media is only as strong as the people who participate in the platform. After enough normies go "ouch, I don't like getting permanently smeared or lambasted on this fun social tool I'm using, I'm out of here" then the tool loses its power.

Somehow the USA even survived the rise of socialism and communism in our borders. We'll get by. Our own history proves that malicious ideologues never hold power in this country for too long. There are so many hurdles to overcome if one wanted to actually remove the EC anyway.


The point is that a surge of new voters rose up (women + immigrants) and pushed through one of the most insane social controls the modern world has seen. We banned alcohol. Yet it was rolled back within 13 years. Even if some new populist rising happens to get the EC suspended or removed, it will get rolled back and the party responsible will permanently fall out of power. Various groups and political parties have pushed against the constitution and even altered it (as in the case of Prohibition), yet the country self-corrected.

Just like I don't buy the idea of runaway climate change, I don't buy the idea of runaaway political damage. The country is designed to flex and self-correct. We'd find a way to fix it.


Running out of cheap food might do it. While alcohol isn't quite the same thing as a gross concentration of political power, the same force of moral authority was behind the ban.
I get what you’re saying: that the pendulum always swings back. I like your optimism and usually share it on most issues. The EC is one topic where I don’t. I think that’s the issue that causes the pendulum to swing so hard it breaks through the sidewall and the whole thing comes crashing down. What separates America from say China is its cultural diversity and eliminating the EC would eliminate that and send wealth inequality into a death spiral. What incentive is there for your typical California/New York liberal to change their mind? Food getting too expensive? They’ll just import more from Mexico. The white deplorables in flyover country are beyond salvation.
 

Scopa

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I don't buy this.

The troll genie is out of the bottle. Even if something "catastrophic" happened like an abolishment of the EC, we still have courts, and Congress, and we still have the march of time. We banned alcohol for 13 years a century ago in the USA. When I think back on that, it boggles my mind. How did they pull it off? How could those women gain so much political clout and influence in such short a time? Try to put yourself in the mindset of people from that year: darnit, the women just gained the right to vote, and they immediately take away alcohol. It must've felt like a dystopian nightmare to some people who didn't want this kind of authoritarian influence in their government. I mean, it's kind of funny when we look back, but to them it was rather serious, apocalyptic, even.

Yet, the USA remains. Prohibition is gone and it didn't even take a war -- civil or extant -- to force it to happen. It was enacted and repealed in the decades between the World Wars, a peacetime legislation. Sharp rise of crime on the street. Lots of immigration into the USA, the likes we hadn't yet seen.

I think we could survive the removal of the EC, even though I staunchly oppose it being removed in the first place.
So, the moral of the story is: Never put women in power.




Point learnt. Back in the kitchen you go, then.



s/
 

DunDunDunpachi

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I get what you’re saying: that the pendulum always swings back. I like your optimism and usually share it on most issues. The EC is one topic where I don’t. I think that’s the issue that causes the pendulum to swing so hard it breaks through the sidewall and the whole thing comes crashing down. What separates America from say China is its cultural diversity and eliminating the EC would eliminate that and send wealth inequality into a death spiral. What incentive is there for your typical California/New York liberal to change their mind? Food getting too expensive? They’ll just import more from Mexico. The white deplorables in flyover country are beyond salvation.
States still defy the Federal government on a regular basis. The most notable recent one is the decriminalization of weed in numerous cities and states. We also have states that try to influence Federal elections, like California recently did when they tried to force Trump to release his tax returns or he'd be prevented from appearing on the ballot. Our president is more like a volley of arrows. He can take a few well-aimed shots and get some things accomplished, but otherwise can't do too much damage due to the limitations imposed by the Supreme court, Congress, and term limits, to say nothing of lettered agencies trying to join the fray.

The impeachment can of worms is open. In a hypothetical situation where the EC is removed, the next president to get elected under the no-EC election would be impeached by a populist surge in the House (and probably the Senate, too), on the grounds that they are an illegitimate candidate.
 
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natjjohn

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remove the EC and you will for sure have a Civil War 2. states aren't going to just give up all their already waning power.

the coastal elites already have far more undue influence in politics and culture through hoarding of wealth and media production. they have monopolized news, film, tv, online, social media, streaming, tech, etc. so many sectors of the culture, they are largely in control of national narratives. this is plainly apparently to the rest of us who live in the so-called "flyover states".

we already think the game is rigged against us, that's why Trump got elected. getting rid of the EC would be a full plunge off the cliff. if you want to see that 2nd Amendment in action try taking away our vote. no taxation without representation.
Disagree. Smaller states are way overrepresented when it comes to political power. People to national representation is very skewed to small population states being overrepresented with house reps being capped decades ago (this is the major problem) and each state getting two senators (wouldn’t be a problem if house reps was expanded to mirror population disparities between the states). Some of these states really have like no one living there. Some are shockingly low when you look at them. South Dakota and North Dakota combined don’t even have two million people. To point out a “coastal elite” potential area: Vermont and New Hampshire combined hit right at two million. I don’t live in one of the populous states, but it’s easy to see how people there would be miffed at how they aren’t as represented as they should be. It’s not just liberal states either. Texas and Florida are loaded with people that don’t get the same level of representation as the people (and empty fields of land) in North Dakota.
 

matt404au

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Disagree. Smaller states are way overrepresented when it comes to political power. People to national representation is very skewed to small population states being overrepresented with house reps being capped decades ago (this is the major problem) and each state getting two senators (wouldn’t be a problem if house reps was expanded to mirror population disparities between the states). Some of these states really have like no one living there. Some are shockingly low when you look at them. South Dakota and North Dakota combined don’t even have two million people. To point out a “coastal elite” potential area: Vermont and New Hampshire combined hit right at two million. I don’t live in one of the populous states, but it’s easy to see how people there would be miffed at how they aren’t as represented as they should be. It’s not just liberal states either. Texas and Florida are loaded with people that don’t get the same level of representation as the people (and empty fields of land) in North Dakota.
It’s the United States of America, not the United People of America. Want your vote to matter more? Move to a less populated state. The only kind of diversity that matters is diversity of thought. That’s what the EC provides. Megacities intrinsically instil cultural and political homogeneity. A vote from California / New York should be worth less because they are less likely to have been exposed to diverse points of view, and they are therefore more likely to be ignorant of the wants and needs of people living in “empty fields of land”. This is how you create actual oppression.
 
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natjjohn

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It’s the United States of America, not the United People of America. Want your vote to matter more? Move to a less populated state. The only kind of diversity that matters is diversity of thought. That’s what the EC provides. Megacities intrinsically instil cultural and political homogeneity. A vote from California / New York should be worth less because they are less likely to have been exposed to diverse points of view, and they are therefore more likely to be ignorant of the wants and needs of people living in “empty fields of land”. This is how you create actual oppression.
Gotta disagree. The more people exposed to the more diverse points of view and thought. Living exclusively in a town of 5000 consisting of mostly people from that town doesn’t expose you to a lot of diverse thoughts. Texas, California, New York, Florida, etc. have small towns and empty fields as well as transplants from other states and the cities you seem to have a phobia of giving even more diverse points of view. It’s not like populous states are just one big city covering the entire state.
 

matt404au

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Gotta disagree. The more people exposed to the more diverse points of view and thought. Living exclusively in a town of 5000 consisting of mostly people from that town doesn’t expose you to a lot of diverse thoughts. Texas, California, New York, Florida, etc. have small towns and empty fields as well as transplants from other states and the cities you seem to have a phobia of giving even more diverse points of view. It’s not like populous states are just one big city covering the entire state.
I’m saying that the group must represent a diverse range of thought, not every individual. Your argument is busted if you are asserting that living in a mega city exposes you to diverse thought anyway. It’s exactly the opposite of what we are observing in real time.
 

ArchaeEnkidu

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Gotta disagree. The more people exposed to the more diverse points of view and thought. Living exclusively in a town of 5000 consisting of mostly people from that town doesn’t expose you to a lot of diverse thoughts. Texas, California, New York, Florida, etc. have small towns and empty fields as well as transplants from other states and the cities you seem to have a phobia of giving even more diverse points of view. It’s not like populous states are just one big city covering the entire state.
Gotta love that "diverse" thought in cities like LA, Portland, and San Francisco....

Oh wait.
 

Komatsu

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Gotta love that "diverse" thought in cities like LA, Portland, and San Francisco....

Oh wait.

ArchaeEnkidu ArchaeEnkidu - please don't take this the wrong way - but have you ever lived in any of those places? I once walked into a meeting of a philantropic society for the restoration of the Habsburg monarchy not two blocks away from Telegraph Ave in Berkeley. There are thousands upon thousands of conservatives in New York - literally 50% of National Review writers live within walking distance of the Upper East Side. All major cities in America are incredibly diverse. The supposed liberal hellhole of SF is a good example: The City and County of San Francisco (that is, SF proper) has only a population of 800,000 people and still 37,000 San Fransciscans voted for the Trump/Pence ticket.

A lot of people have this entirely distorted view of Coastal America based on what they read on the news or whatnot. I've spent the vast majority of my life in big cities and I've seen people with all sorts of ideological positions, from Catholic Integralism to Full Space Luxury Communism.
 
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ArchaeEnkidu

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ArchaeEnkidu ArchaeEnkidu - please don't take this the wrong way - but have you ever lived in any of those places? I once walked into a meeting of a philantropic society for the restoration of the Habsburg monarchy not two blocks away from Telegraph Ave in Berkeley. There are thousands upon thousands of conservatives in New York - literally 50% of National Review writers live within walking distance of the Upper East Side. All major cities in America are incredibly diverse. The supposed liberal hellhole of SF is a good example: The City and County of San Francisco (that is, SF proper) has only a population of 800,000 people and still 37,000 San Fransciscans voted for the Trump/Pence ticket.

A lot of people have this entirely distorted view of Coastal America based on what they read on the news or whatnot. I've spent the vast majority of my life in big cities and I've seen people with all sorts of ideological positions, from Catholic Integralism to Full Space Luxury Communism.
Yes, I have. As well as numerous trips to them over the past few years. This isn't coming out of nowhere, these are my experiences.
 

matt404au

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ArchaeEnkidu ArchaeEnkidu - please don't take this the wrong way - but have you ever lived in any of those places? I once walked into a meeting of a philantropic society for the restoration of the Habsburg monarchy not two blocks away from Telegraph Ave in Berkeley. There are thousands upon thousands of conservatives in New York - literally 50% of National Review writers live within walking distance of the Upper East Side. All major cities in America are incredibly diverse. The supposed liberal hellhole of SF is a good example: The City and County of San Francisco (that is, SF proper) has only a population of 800,000 people and still 37,000 San Fransciscans voted for the Trump/Pence ticket.

A lot of people have this entirely distorted view of Coastal America based on what they read on the news or whatnot. I've spent the vast majority of my life in big cities and I've seen people with all sorts of ideological positions, from Catholic Integralism to Full Space Luxury Communism.
Not sure 4.6% voting for the republican ticket in the last election supports your point.
 
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Komatsu

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Not sure 4.6% voting for the republican ticket in the last election supports your point.
800,000 is the total number of residents, not the voter count. 15% of the voters voted for a non-democratic ticket, between Trump, Stein and Johnson. And this is literally one of the bluest counties in the nation. In LA, another "super liberal city", more than 20% of the electorate voted Republican.

Or to put it differently, proportionally (and nominally as well, but I recognized it's not relevant to the argument) more people voted Republican in Los Angeles than most counties in the Texas panhandle voted Democrat.

So, to go back to my previous point, no major American city is really an ossified political monoculture. Look at Oregon's map. Even in Portland, a super blue capital, more people voted for the GOP than most people in the reddest counties voted DEM.

EDIT I guess I should have made my point in regards to voter count clearer the first, so my bad here.
 
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matt404au

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800,000 is the total number of residents, not the voter count. 15% of the voters voted for a non-democratic ticket, between Trump, Stein and Johnson. And this is literally one of the bluest counties in the nation. In LA, another "super liberal city", more than 20% of the electorate voted Republican.

Or to put it differently, proportionally (and nominally as well, but I recognized it's not relevant to the argument) more people voted Republican in Los Angeles than most counties in the Texas panhandle voted Democrat.

So, to go back to my previous point, no major American city is really an ossified political monoculture. Look at Oregon's map. Even in Portland, a super blue capital, more people voted for the GOP than most people in the reddest counties voted DEM.
If this was your argument in the previous post, it really wasn't clear. It appeared as though you were holding up 37k/800k voting Trump as some kind of evidence of diversity of thought in San Francisco.
 

Rentahamster

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You're kinda jumping the gun on that one. From my little corner of the country, it seems we are either one or two votes away from full blown socialism taking over. One impeachment trial vote, and one general election vote.
How is that possible when even the most lefty nations in Europe aren't at "full blown socialism"? America and the rest of the world is going to be capitalist for a long, long, time. It's on the rise, not on the decline.

 
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Boy Wander

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So someone copped a 1 week ban for "Racism" because they pointed out that Obama isn't in fact black but mixed race because he has parents of different races :messenger_dizzy:
 

Ellis

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A few laughs in here. Scorsese is cancelled.

 
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Xaero Testosterone

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Can you link the ban? That is definitely something I want see.
 
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Nobody_Important

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Oh okay. I see it now. Thanks for the context.
 
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ROMhack

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A few laughs in here. Scorsese is cancelled.

All I see is a lot of agreement and he's right. They're fun but there's a lot of artificiality to them (including well-regarded ones like Black Panther).

Edit: Although arguably they are 'cinema' because they work best in a cinema, but that's a reflection of what the cinema has become (i.e. a popcorn munching, soft drink dome).
 
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Saruhashi

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I love it.

There could be an Overwatch character in Smash Bros. Maybe. Probably not.
Let's talk about race though!

It had better not be one of those goddamn white Overwatch characters getting into Smash!!!
 
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Bullet Club

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