Eteric Rice
Member
Wait, whats going on now? What isn't ever going to get games again?
What the hell are you guys talking about. -_-
What the hell are you guys talking about. -_-
-
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Official bitching about Hudson abandoning VC support. [VC/WiiWare = lost cause]
- Thread starter Kobun Heat
- Start date
Metal Gear?!
Member
Was Hudson losing money on Turbografix/PC Engine VC releases?
ShockingAlberto
Member
Hudson is abandoning VC support.Eteric Rice said:
While I'm all for blaming NOA for most things, I'm not entirely sure this is their fault.
That would be rather difficult, considering that they're basically just ROM dumps of completed games, and there's no material cost on publishing digital download games (just bandwidth). The only real costs are making the emulator and the ESRB fees.Metal Gear?! said:
The VC is basically just free money. Problem is, it might not be enough free money. Square was initially hesitant to get on board because it wasn't enough free money (satisfying demand removes the demand by "cashing in" on it). They might have negotiated a stronger deal before joining. Hudson was probably making an amount of VC monies second only to Nintendo. But now they've apparently decided that it's not enough free money. Maybe they heard whatever rates Square negotiated?
Smaller guys probably won't bail, because they'll never get a better offer than what Nintendo's offering, but Nintendo doesn't seem to want the VC to be about all the smaller niche titles. They want big guns. So we might be seeing the beginning of the end of the entire VC.
Of course, Nintendo controls the flow of VC games, so they'll probably just save the VC by giving us Mother 1 next week. Which is why we have to spread the doom! Die VC, die! Mother 1? No, not good enough. Gimme something else. Hey publishers! The voices in my head told me that Nintendo gave Square a 75/25 split! Demand it for yourself! Riot! Riot! Respond Nintendo! Quench our hatred!
Cheesemeister
Member
ruby_onix said:
That would be why such information is under NDA. Fortunately, you're just trolling with numbers pulled from your hindquarters.
Eteric Rice
Member
ShockingAlberto said:
Why are they doing that?
Jaded Alyx
Member
Yeh, specifically your anus.Cheesemeister said:
B-Rad Lascelle
Banned
Actually they have no idea what hardcore gamers want.Scenester said:
They know exactly what PEOPLE want... far more than GAF does.
Just look at the pile of money they've accumulated since their last meaningful Wii title hit stores last May.
crowphoenix
Banned
Sonic Chaos for the SMS.Owensboro said:
Grampa Simpson
Banned
Everyone seems to say that VC releases are free monies, but do we know that? Does Nintendo charge Hudson a fixed charge for releasing a game on virtual console? I have no way of knowing or not, but it seems like a very Nintendo-like thing to do....
Cheesemeister
Member
Koren said:
Again with the made-up numbers.
crowphoenix
Banned
I remember hearing on one of the 1up podcasts that one of the overlooked factors in releasing a game on the VC is that it has to be ESRB rated, which I believe was said to be about 15,000 bucks per game. This must be paid by the the company that made the game, so for a game to be viable, it needs to be able to sell above that.bmf said:
I'd link to the podcast, but I'm at work, and I listened to several that day. Sorry.
Hey, mine were deliberately and very obviously made up. Evil is good. Good is evil.Cheesemeister said:
It's because Nintendo has absolute control of the delivery system. It makes Nintendo essentially the publisher on every single VC title. It's not like past systems where Nintendo could charge a royalty for their blessing, maybe sell some materials, and then let them run off and distribute it by themselves. That would mean third parties hosting their own software which could somehow be delivered into your Wii and run through un-secure channels.bmf said:
Publishers can't charge you (as a developer) money to sell your game. They give you money for the right to sell your game. Unless they think it's not worth their time, and they reject you.
That's harsh. Who'd want to put out any VC games if they risk losing money because of it? If I were Nintendo, I'd share that burden and forfeit my share of the profits until that chunk is paid off, just to minimize it and make it go away faster.crowphoenix said:
Everything I've seen has said significantly lower than that. I've heard as little as $800 for small-budget games. This particular link mentions $2 500.crowphoenix said:
http://www.digitalbattle.com/2007/0...rs-required-to-spend-2500-us-for-esrb-rating/
Don't know how accurate Wikipedia is about this, but for what it's worth it has this to say:
Releasing Virtual Console games, to me, seems like next to no risk at all compared to a retail game for ANY console / handheld. Even with marketing, you can use the internet extensively and Nintendo's tools like the Eveybody's Nintendo Channel and whatnot which should be very cheap all things considered. I'm not saying it's free money and it doesn't take (lots?) of work. But it could be very profitable I think, especially for the bigger named classics that keep on trucking while Wii's audience expands with insane speeds. After the low return of investment has been reached, then it IS free money for the rest of Virtual Console's long, long life, no reprints, no shipping, no shelf space, no price drops, no hassle. Basicly just collecting revenue.
I would guess that for VC they would use the original development costs with inflation factored in. $250k seems like a lot considering how old the games can be, but even 4000 shouldn't be an issue for these kinds of companies.. come on.
Releasing Virtual Console games, to me, seems like next to no risk at all compared to a retail game for ANY console / handheld. Even with marketing, you can use the internet extensively and Nintendo's tools like the Eveybody's Nintendo Channel and whatnot which should be very cheap all things considered. I'm not saying it's free money and it doesn't take (lots?) of work. But it could be very profitable I think, especially for the bigger named classics that keep on trucking while Wii's audience expands with insane speeds. After the low return of investment has been reached, then it IS free money for the rest of Virtual Console's long, long life, no reprints, no shipping, no shelf space, no price drops, no hassle. Basicly just collecting revenue.
Thinking about it, if ESRB fees were an uncomfortable expense in releasing games for the VC, they could just skip the ESRB altogether. ESRB ratings aren't legally mandated or anything like that. They're just a token gesture to keep the lawmakers off our backs. I can buy games off the internet that don't have ESRB ratings. And DLC and online play are usually noted as unrated content. The only reason ESRB ratings seem to be everywhere is because major retail chains like EB/GameStop and Wal-Mart have refused to carry titles with certain rating levels (and by extension, unrated content, so you can't get around the restriction). But if Nintendo controls the channel, they don't have to play by the usual rules, unless they liked those rules.
Nintendo could just bring back their Official Seal of Censorship. That'd be enough to keep the lawmakers off our backs for NES/SNES games. And N64 games are already rated. Nintendo could retroactively apply the Nintendo Seal to appropriate Genesis and Turbo games (that'd be a hoot).
Nintendo could just bring back their Official Seal of Censorship. That'd be enough to keep the lawmakers off our backs for NES/SNES games. And N64 games are already rated. Nintendo could retroactively apply the Nintendo Seal to appropriate Genesis and Turbo games (that'd be a hoot).
Did 1up itself say this? Because looking back to March of last year...crowphoenix said:
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/080425qa/04.html
The wording does leave some room for interpretation, but I think it's pretty heavily implied that Nintendo was covering the costs of rating games for VC (and not for WiiWare).Satoru Iwata said:
ToastyFrog
Inexplicable Treasure Hate
That's not what I've heard from a few publishers. But I can't cite sources since it was off the record, so it's all just hearsay.Jiggy said:
The number we threw out for the ESRB fees ($15K or whatever) was just a random hypothetical figure, off the cuff, and in no way intended to be accurate or factual.
cartman414
Member
I love how this week's entry was so trivial as to merit a single post mentioning what it was.
VC games from the same publishers always get rated in clusters on the ESRB website if that means anything. It could mean that the publishers are getting their own games rated or perhaps games are licensed in batches. It could also be that the ESRB rates games in batches by publisher before publishing them in which case it doesn't corrispond to anything.
However on the OFLC the one who files all VC ratings is Nintendo of Australia.
However on the OFLC the one who files all VC ratings is Nintendo of Australia.
Kasumi1970
my name is Ted
How many games did Hudson bring out for the Virtual Console? Did they bring out all the US TurboGrafx-16 games? Can someone give me a list?
57 in NA: http://www.vc-reviews.com/games?sort=systemKasumi1970 said:
And no. Even limited to games that I had found about and wanted, there were still Aero Blasters, Cotton, Dragon Slayer, Magical Chase, and Parasol Stars. I'm sure someone somewhere has a more complete list of what we're missing, probably including even more games I'd want.
Hudson has basically run through their entire 1st party US HuCard lineup, aside from a few licensed games (Keith Courage, Jackie Chan's Action Kung Fu) and games originally created by other publishers with a Hudson TG16 conversion (Aero Blasters, Raiden, Timeball) plus the original Bomberman, which has superior sequels.
There are still a few Taito (Cadash, Hit the Ice, Parasol Stars) and Namco (Final Lap Twin, Pac-Land, World Court Tennis) US games outstanding though, along with assorted US titles from companies who are either defunct or not supporting the VC, like Victor, NEC's own games, Icom Simulations, or Accolade.
This also doesn't take potential imports or US 1st party CD games (Bonk III, Buster Bros, Dragon Slayer, Dungeon Explorer II, Fighting Street, Ys III, plus a few more I think) into account though.
Mega Man's Electric Sheep
Member
So I wonder if someone can help me decide between Dynastic Hero and Wonderboy in Monster World. I know they're basically the same game, but here are some differences I remember hearing about:
-Dynastic Hero has better audio quality, but worse musical composition
-Dynastic Hero lacks parallax scrolling
-Wonder Boy has an infuriatingly cheap version of the final boss
-Wonder Boy gives you a game over when you die, but Dynastic spawns you at an inn (really curious about this one. Someone on gamefaqs said this, and I'd like confirmation, as this is something that would matter to me)
-Dynastic Hero has a bizarre looking megaman beetle main character
Have I hit all the differences? Has anyone actually played both who can offer an opinion? Or does it really not make much difference as they are so similar?
-Dynastic Hero has better audio quality, but worse musical composition
-Dynastic Hero lacks parallax scrolling
-Wonder Boy has an infuriatingly cheap version of the final boss
-Wonder Boy gives you a game over when you die, but Dynastic spawns you at an inn (really curious about this one. Someone on gamefaqs said this, and I'd like confirmation, as this is something that would matter to me)
-Dynastic Hero has a bizarre looking megaman beetle main character
Have I hit all the differences? Has anyone actually played both who can offer an opinion? Or does it really not make much difference as they are so similar?
A Black Falcon
Member
Mega Man's Electric Sheep said:
A good comparison article: (apart from the end of the article where they have some spoilers about a plot point near the end, if you care)
http://www.sega-16.com/feature_page...Wonder Boy in Monster World vs. Dynastic Hero
The only thing wrong there is about the final boss; the Turbo CD version's final boss is actually the same as the original Japanese Genesis version's final boss. They just made that fight a lot harder for the US Genesis release... but Hudson did not do the same on the Turbo CD version, either in the US or Japanese releases. And yeah, the Genesis version of the fight is somewhat cruel.
As for after you die though, the Sega-16 article doesn't mention it, but yes, it's different. In the Genesis version you get 'Game Over', then the main menu, where you choose 'Continue' to start from the last time you saved (that is, the last inn you were at). On Turbo CD however, as you say it restarts you straight away from the last inn you saved at with no 'Game Over' screen, though the person in the inn does then say something about how you shouldn't mess up again like you just did.
Functionally the two are pretty much the same, though; the Genesis game has only one save slot, so you just hit 'Continue' and continue your game. The Turbo CD one allows four, if you have enough space or are playing it in emulation, so starting from the last inn removes the slight hassle of having to choose a save slot to load... but other than that, it's a minimal difference really.
Overall both versions are great, really, and are nearly identical in most every way. Cartridge vs. CD audio, parallax scrolling versus non, different character art, sure... but the game is the same, and both are very good.
Here's a worry-wart kind of question: Should I worry about losing the ability to play my VC games, especially from third parties?
For instance, if Nintendo, hopefully, obligates itself to continue to let people play and re-download the games they have purchased from the VC years from now, even on a newer console, would that also include third parties? What I'm trying to figure out is if, 5 years from now, I can still play my VC Super Metroid but not my VC Super Ghouls n Ghosts, say if Capcom wants out.
Ack, this is why DLC/game(s) sucks.
For instance, if Nintendo, hopefully, obligates itself to continue to let people play and re-download the games they have purchased from the VC years from now, even on a newer console, would that also include third parties? What I'm trying to figure out is if, 5 years from now, I can still play my VC Super Metroid but not my VC Super Ghouls n Ghosts, say if Capcom wants out.
Ack, this is why DLC/game(s) sucks.
I'd say that you can re-download them as long as you want... I fail to see why you couldn't redownload them in 5 years (and they usually have a good customer policy for this, they transfered saves for Animal Crossing GC, they bought back rewritable cartridges when they stopped distributing SNES/GB games with download stations IIRC, they offered support for Famicom for more than 20 years, etc.)Pyrokai said:
But you can redownload them... on the SAME console. If it breaks, and you buy a new Wii (after warranty expired), you have to buy everything again (and that's explained in legal text when you download sth). And that's a big problem for me, I'd like to see downloads tied to the Nintendo account so you can redownload games on another console if you need to. Same as PS3.
It's a BIG issue for me, I probably have bought three times more games on VC/WW if they had a better way for handling this.
Koren said:
Well, I actually do know that you can link your Wii Shop account and your Club Nintendo account, so if your Wii breaks they'll be able to see what games you had that way. I'm more apprehensive of the fear I mentioned than the fact that you'll have to re-buy all your games again if you Wii breaks. That seems like awful, awful support.
Capcom doesn't have that sway--or if they do, then at the very least they've claimed otherwise.Pyrokai said:
http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008...-console-but-its-actually-nintendos-decision/
And as for the publishers who don't have that sort of agreement (if there are any), I'm not sure why they would "want out" anyway since once a game is released there's no further spending on their part and only potential gain... Of course, all of this doesn't exactly do away with the primary concern of whether Nintendo will support VC at all in the far future, but I guess we'll see on that front. And even I wonder what would happen if a significant VC contributor like Konami (with Hudson) was bought out by Sony or Microsoft.
I would say that yes, you should worry.Pyrokai said:
But if you treat your VC purchases like indefinite "rentals" with absolutely no late fees of any kind, and accept that you might be legally obligated to give the rentals back at some point, years from the day you rented them, and even then you can dodge the collection agencies for years on top of that, and keep the games going until they fail (they were never built to last, but you can take steps to preserve them), and if you can be happy with spending money to play a game you like with that sort of a rental system, then you will be just fine.
If you cling to the belief that a DLC "purchase" is a purchase like any other, and gives you the kind of ownership you've come to expect from the real world, then you will probably be sorry one day.
Hours Left
Member
Apparently, Hudson is not dropping VC support. Siliconera with the story.
http://www.siliconera.com/2009/02/13/hudson-wants-to-know-which-virtual-console-games-you-want-here/
They're even asking Siliconera readers to send in suggestions for what games to release.
http://www.siliconera.com/2009/02/13/hudson-wants-to-know-which-virtual-console-games-you-want-here/
They're even asking Siliconera readers to send in suggestions for what games to release.
Flakster99
Member
markatisu said:
You don't say.
Jonnyboy117
Member
If the ESRB fees are prohibitive for some publishers, they should release more late-era SNES and N64 games that were already rated the first time around (since they were released after the ESRB was created). I don't see why there would be any need to have these games rated again, since their content is exactly the same.
Jaded Alyx
Member
GAF jumping to conclusions? Never!
Jaded Alyx
Member
There are two threads, this one with the incorrect title, and another detailing WiiWare, VC, and DSiWareDeku said:
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
That's right.
Hudson can't stop now. There's still Dungeon Explorer 2 and Rondo of Blood to give to the rest of the world.
Hudson can't stop now. There's still Dungeon Explorer 2 and Rondo of Blood to give to the rest of the world.