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Official Puzzle + RPG thread of genre hybrid heaven

GDJustin

stuck my tongue deep inside Atlus' cookies
There's something about the mixture of the puzzle and RPG genres that scratches an itch many gamers didn't even know they had. It's one of those mixtures that, on paper, might not sound like much. But in practice... it turns out to be delicious. Like peanut butter & chocolate. Or peanut butter & bananas. Maybe just peanut butter with most foods.

In any case, one of my absolute favorite developments in video games the last few years has been the rise of this sub-genre. So... let's talking about it!

Puzzle Quest: Challenge of the Warlords (March 2007, DS & PSP) (Fall 2007 XBLA, PC, PS2) (Fall 2008 - iPhone, PSN)
puzzlequest.jpg

The game that started the obsession for most of us, although it technically didn't come first (more on that in a second).

The basic puzzle gameplay is match-3 style with new pieces falling in from the top, ala Bejeweled or Zoo Keeper. Matching colors builds up your mana which you can spend on various offensive or defensive spells, while matching skulls does damage directly.

Revenge of the Plague Lord
puzzlequestsplashplague.jpg

An expansion for the original PQ. Released on XBLA and PSN in 2008.

This expansion added new player classes, new quests, as well as new spells, enemies, and items.


Puzzle Pirates (Dec 2003 - Mac, Win, Linux)
435279_Sword-fight-insta_620.jpg


I played PP practically non-stop for nearly the first year it was out. Puzzle Pirates is a full-on puzzle-based MMO. Crews can all sail on a single ship together, with each duty station represented by a different puzzle. The sailing puzzle is sorta like Dr. Mario. Bilge pump sorta like Bejeweled. When enemies are met, the swordfighting combat is handled with a puzzle game very similar to Puzzle Fighter.

New puzzles for crafting or just for recreation (drinking) are added all the time, and the game is FREE to play. Highly recommended. Maybe we should get a GAF crew together...

Corpse Craft
bg_corpse_craft.jpg

http://www.kongregate.com/games/tconkling/corpse-craft

Corpse Craft is a creative and macabre little online flash game. Rather than placing an RPG layer on top of a standard puzzle setup, it layers RTS elements on top. Gamers are reanimating a little army of undead, with various units having different strengths and weaknesses. Gamers build up the resources to purchase their units by eliminating them from a game board Collapse!-style. The more blocks eliminated at once, the bigger the bonus. It's a great premise with a lot of potential. Would love to see it expanded into a DS title, or $10-20 downloadable title.

Bookworm Adventure (Nov 2006 - PC) (Dec 2009 - DS)
1242632183.jpg

A puzzle/RPG hybrid that actually pre-dates Puzzle Quest. Although for many hardcore gamers this entry into the sub-genre doesn't truly "count."

In Bookworm Adventure players create words from a set of letters. The bigger the word or the more difficult letters incorporated, the more damage is dealt. Letters can sometimes have special attributes, such as poison, healing, stun, etc.

The RPG elements are a relatively light. Enemy attacks are pre-determined, as is progression through the stages.

Bookworm Adventures Vol. 2 (Summer 2009 - PC)
screen8.jpg


Besides an entirely new quest, the sequel added new negative status-effect tile types to increase the difficulty. Companions/pets that provide aid in battle were also added.

Puzzle Quest: Galactrix (Spring 2009 - XBLA, PSN, PC, DS)
puzzle-quest-galactrix-20090129021753605_640w.jpg

Galactrix was considered a disappointing follow-up to PQ by most. My personal opinion is much more positive - I really enjoy the title.

Galactrix retains the match-3 foundation of PQ, but with hexagonal pieces, instead of square. The direction a player makes a match determines the direction new pieces enter the board from, giving much more control over random combos and cascades. The game includes unique puzzle minigames for virtually all in-game activities - mining, bartering, crafting, etc.

The game was whacked by GAF and by some critics as being overly repetitive and by relying too much on luck. I disagree with both criticisms. I think the ability to control the gravity of the board makes Galactrix far less luck-based than PQ1 was. As for the experience being repetitive, the game is fairly non-linear. If you're tired of hacing leapgates or combat, spend some time mining, or haggling.

Might & Magic Clash of Heroes (DS - Dec 1 2009)
might-and-magic-clash-of-heroes-20090715030430448.jpg

Released TODAY for the DS, this game has been garnering extremely positive reviews. It currently has an 86 average on Metacritic, with many calling it the best puzzle/RPG since PQ. The basic puzzle gameplay is similar to Capybara's last title, Critter Crunch. Edge gave it a 9/10:"Even if the DNA of its forebears is barely apparent, such a bold, brilliant transformation certainly involves something a little like magic."

Gyromancer (Nov 2009 - XBLA)
500x_gyromancer.jpg

Gyromancer is a joint project between Popcap and Square Enix, mixing Popcap's Bejeweled Twist with Square's RPG artwork & planning expertise. Despite this pedigree, most gamers weren't too thrilled with the finished product.

Gyromancer is unique in that the combat isn't turn-based. The player is the only one to manipulate the gems on the board. So it is up to them to come up with the most efficient way to damage their opponent, while also neutralizing the opponent's damage-dealing gems (by matching them).

The game looks & sounds great and the core puzzle gameplay is solid, but Gyromancer suffers from very light RPG elements, and a lack of strategic depth to it's match-ups.

Puzzle Kingdoms (May 2009 - DS, Wii, PC)
puzzlekingdoms2.jpeg


I'm ashamed to admit I have yet to play PK. Based on what I've read, the puzzle gameplay copies titles like Pokemon Trozei rather than Bejeweled. ie entire rows and columns can be slid vertically or horizontally. Matching three squares elminates them from the board. Rather than being a puzzle + RPG, the game appears to be more of a puzzle + strategy title. The game received moderate critical praise, with the primary complaint being a low-budget feeling creeping into many aspects of the product.

Anyone have any hands-on impressions?

UPCOMING RELEASES:

Puzzle Quest 2 (Spring 2010)
puzzlequest2_announced1.jpg

The king returns. Hopefully. Not much is known so far, beyond the basic sequel givens (new character classes, a new tournament mode of play, etc). I think most people liked PQ more than Galactrix because the puzzle action itself was more casual and less thoughtful. It was like a slot machine - sometimes you would hit the jackpot and set off a crazy cascade, and it felt good.

Hopefully PQ2 can retain those good feelings, while adding some additional depth to the package. VERY disappointed in the lack of a PSP sku, though. It was my platform of choice for the original PQ.

Puzzle Chronicles (TBA Q1 2010 - XBLA, PSN, PC, DS, PSP)
puzzle-chronicles-20090413021242536-000.jpg

Also developed by Infinite Interactive (but published by Konami oddly), Puzzle Chronicles seems to be flying under the radar. Why do some I.I. games get hyped to high heaven, while others get no press at all? (this, and Puzzle Kingdoms).

IGN has a pretty terrible hands-on from way back in April, where Hilary spends almost the whole time talking about the art, and one paragraph explaining the gameplay itself. Read Here. Basically, the matches are not turn-based but real-time. Pieces fall horizontally, and you & your opponent share a game board. As you make matches, you put the squeeze on your opponent, lengthening your board and shortening theirs. I'm not crazy about the art either, but if the RPG wrapping is solid, and the battle-system well-tuned, it could make for good, more intense puzzle RPG.

~~~


...that's about it! Any legacy titles I failed to include? Any upcoming titles I should be made aware of? I don't want Infinite Interactive to have to carry this genre on their own. Hopefully despite the semi-misstep that Gyromancer was Popcap and S-E will stay involved...

Happy puzzling everyone!
 
I'm pretty sure there's another upcoming one for XBLA and DS called Puzzle Chronicles. I don't know anything about it though.
 
GDJustin said:
Huh... screenshot looks kind of like an RPG critter crunch maybe? Interesting...
Hey Justin, if Ubi doesn't send you a copy let me know... Capy developed this one :D

Also, gameplay is push/pull a la Critter Crunch/Magical Drop/MPE, but with an entirely different TBS-heavy ruleset.
 
I was just about to call out Might & Magic: Clash of Heroes, but someone beat me to it!

I second the enthusiastic recommendation. A very fun puzzle game and very clever integration of the puzzle to the RPG elements, an area in which it beats even the mighty Puzzle Quest.

Bring it to XBLA, Capybara man!
 
Also recommended in the Hidden Gems thread, Deadly Rooms of Death. More puzzle-solving than RPG, and certainly quite different from the rest of the titles in this thread, but I still think the theme is close enough for people to appreciate.

100512_large.jpeg


The objective is to make your way to the exist of each floor (which is made up, usually, of 12-16 rooms), each of which is its own puzzle (and there can be meta-puzzles between them, as well). The enemies only move when you move, and your actions are restricted largely to walking or moving the position of your sword clockwise (or counter-).

Each enemy does different things and trap/switches are often involved, as well. Highly strategic and fun, to boot!
 
Belfast said:
Also recommended in the Hidden Gems thread, Deadly Rooms of Death. More puzzle-solving than RPG, and certainly quite different from the rest of the titles in this thread, but I still think the theme is close enough for people to appreciate.

100512_large.jpeg


The objective is to make your way to the exist of each floor (which is made up, usually, of 12-16 rooms), each of which is its own puzzle (and there can be meta-puzzles between them, as well). The enemies only move when you move, and your actions are restricted largely to walking or moving the position of your sword clockwise (or counter-).

Each enemy does different things and trap/switches are often involved, as well. Highly strategic and fun, to boot!

Ha - so that's where Denki blocks came from! :D



But yeah - PQ is the lord and master of the genre.


PQ2 is an event, I can only hope that it is just as amazing and has lots of DLC and a more structured online for X360.

Cromulent_Word said:
Hey Justin, if Ubi doesn't send you a copy let me know... Capy developed this one :D

Also, gameplay is push/pull a la Critter Crunch/Magical Drop/MPE, but with an entirely different TBS-heavy ruleset.


THink Might and Magic is Jan for the UK, which is a good timeslot for the older gamer with spare time & travlin' to do.
 
Edit: Games now added to the OP.

A few games I somehow failed to include in the OP:

Puzzle Pirates (Dec 2003 - Mac, Win, Linux)
435279_Sword-fight-insta_620.jpg


I don't know how in the world I left Puzzle Pirates out of the OP, seeing as I played the game practically non-stop for nearly the first year it was out. Puzzle Pirates is a full-on puzzle-based MMO. Crews can all sail on a single ship together, with each duty station represented by a different puzzle. The sailing puzzle is sorta like Dr. Mario. Bilge pump sorta like Bejeweled. When enemies are met, the swordfighting combat is handled with a puzzle game very similar to Puzzle Fighter.

New puzzles for crafting or just for recreation (drinking) are added all the time, and the game is FREE to play. Highly recommended. Maybe we should get a GAF crew together...

Corpse Craft
bg_corpse_craft.jpg

http://www.kongregate.com/games/tconkling/corpse-craft

Corpse Craft is a creative and macabre little online flash game. Rather than placing an RPG layer on top of a standard puzzle setup, it layers RTS elements on top. Gamers are reanimating a little army of undead, with various units having different strengths and weaknesses. Gamers build up the resources to purchase their units by eliminating them from a game board Collapse!-style. The more blocks eliminated at once, the bigger the bonus. It's a great premise with a lot of potential. Would love to see it expanded into a DS title, or $10-20 downloadable title.

Might & Magic Clash of Heroes (DS - Dec 1 2009)
might-and-magic-clash-of-heroes-20090715030430448.jpg

Released TODAY for the DS, this game has been garnering extremely positive reviews. It currently has an 86 average on Metacritic, with many calling it the best puzzle/RPG since PQ. The basic puzzle gameplay is similar to Capybara's last title, Critter Crunch. Edge gave it a 9/10:"Even if the DNA of its forebears is barely apparent, such a bold, brilliant transformation certainly involves something a little like magic."

Puzzle Chronicles (TBA Q1 2010 - XBLA, PSN, PC, DS, PSP)
puzzle-chronicles-20090413021242536-000.jpg

Also developed by Infinite Interactive (but published by Konami oddly), Puzzle Chronicles seems to be flying under the radar. Why do some I.I. games get hyped to high heaven, while others get no press at all? (this, and Puzzle Kingdoms).

IGN has a pretty terrible hands-on from way back in April, where Hilary spends almost the whole time talking about the art, and one paragraph explaining the gameplay itself. Read Here. Basically, the matches are not turn-based but real-time. Pieces fall horizontally, and you & your opponent share a game board. As you make matches, you put the squeeze on your opponent, lengthening your board and shortening theirs. I'm not crazy about the art either, but if the RPG wrapping is solid, and the battle-system well-tuned, it could make for good, more intense puzzle RPG.

~~~

Surprised I missed so many! Are there any others out there?
 
OP Galactrix was shit.

You are in the vast minority here. Although to each his own I thought the game was a mess.

too much traveling around for quests which wouldn't have been a problem if you didn't get stopped for stupid warp gates or enemy territory bullshit.

Eventually I downloaded a hack that unlocked all warp gates but it was still painfully annoying.

IMO it was a major letdown.
 
Gaz Pwnage said:
i am 100% positive that Puzzle quest cheats. Many a time have i screamed profanities at the TV thanks to this game

PQ1's AI does not cheat. I feel like I'm explaining this over and over to people. ;)

The AI examines all possible matches, and based on the game's set difficulty level, will either perform the best possible move, 2nd best, etc. It has no advance knowledge of what gems are going to be dropping in from off-screen. The off-screen gems are not even "generated" until they actually appear.

Gamers only THINK that these cascades screw them over and over again because they don't have as vivid a memory of the times that cascades saved their butts :p

Zyzyxxz said:
OP Galactrix was shit.

You are in the vast minority here. Although to each his own I thought the game was a mess.

too much traveling around for quests which wouldn't have been a problem if you didn't get stopped for stupid warp gates or enemy territory bullshit.

Eventually I downloaded a hack that unlocked all warp gates but it was still painfully annoying.

IMO it was a major letdown.

Yeah, I know I'm in the minority and I'm OK with that. I believe I even said I was the minority, in the OP. I enjoyed Galactrix quite a bit. Should I like it less just because other people weren't crazy about it?

Everyone complained about being "interrupted" by the Warp Gates, and that just struck me as odd, because things like those Warp Gates ARE the game. It's like people complaining about being interrupted by a battle sequence that they have to win to progress.

I've never heard anyone articulate a really well-formed , cohesive criticism of the game. They just call it a "mess" and move on. My hunch is there's just more instances of the hacking minigame than players would prefer - the ratio is out of whack. Which is honestly a fairly minor complaint - it's like complaining that Uncharted is too much shooting, or too much traversal. Too much of one part of the game, not enough of another.

I wasn't super in love with the hacking minigame either. But one evening I was kinda in the mood for it. So I went around and hacked open a ton of gates, one after the other. Problem solved.

As for being in enemy territory, I just bribed them so I wouldn't have to fight them.
 
Zyzyxxz said:
OP Galactrix was shit.

You are in the vast minority here. Although to each his own I thought the game was a mess.

too much traveling around for quests which wouldn't have been a problem if you didn't get stopped for stupid warp gates or enemy territory bullshit.

Eventually I downloaded a hack that unlocked all warp gates but it was still painfully annoying.

IMO it was a major letdown.

Having said similar things in the PQ2 thread, I completely agree with this statement. Hoping Might & Magic is awesome, I'll probably pick it up this week.
 
Would anyone be interested in a puzzle pirates GAF crew? The game is free to play now and is 50x more fun with people you know working cooperatively towards a common goal.

If nothing else, we could use it as a fancy multiplayer swordfight (puzzle fighter) client.
 
Would the Neopets game also fit in this?

I'm really liking Gyromancer despite the requirement to repeat levels in order to progress with better loot and monsters to fight with. I do wish that the monsters weren't just made up of a single kind of gem, and rather had different kinds of gems for each attack, like Puzzle Quest. The puzzling bit though it great.
 
Scythesurge said:
I thought this was a thread for the N64 game Hybrid Heaven and I got excited.


You (or someone else who can create a topic) should make a Hybrid Heaven thread. I loved the hell out of that game. Wish it would come to VC.
 
I've been posting in the official thread but I wanted to catch anyone in here who missed it:

Might & Magic is superb. Anyone who is a fan of puzzle RPGs should purchase it immediately. SUPERB.
 
I got Puzzle Quest 2 along with some 40 other people here. I played it waaaaay too much on these two free days, but I am somewhat disappointed. I feel like there was a lot more strategy with the first game. When battles got tough, it actually meant something to stop and think for a while about your moves to get something while preventing the other from having a good move, or even trapping it into setting up stuff for you. Even if it was hopeless, you could just go for broke on gold and exp to make it worth the trouble. Mounts, sieges, and a much more epic feel were also better.

I definitely preferred the old world layout, as these characters and levels are a bit weird, but I guess I need to play with other classes before being sure about the new system. I like the searching game, but other games seem kinda random. The worst is the looting game, which just cascades at random and often puts treasure chests where you don't even have an option of getting to them, often the bottom row so you lose them right away. Weapons and armor aren't as exciting as the things PQ1 had, but maybe Barbarian is a boring class. So far I've just put on a lot of stuff to max out crits and when I get 50+ attack points I use an improved ax to obliterate the opponent.

Upgrading is kind of a pain in the ass because I seem to get tons of everything except metal, which you need a lot of to upgrade almost everything. I mean, I have 10 times more of anything else than I need, and 1/10th the metal that I need. I get that rare stuff is rare for a reason, but other things have really come off as making no significant difference at all, so I wonder why those materials/items are even included. Again, perhaps they're useful for assassin things or something. I did have the most fun in PQ1 playing wizard.
 
Castlevania Puzzle: Encore of the Night is a puzzler/RPG building on the world and sprites of Symphony of the Night but the gameplay is entirely stats/puzzle based. Gameplay is pretty much a clone of Puzzle Fighter.
 
SiegfriedFM said:
Castlevania Puzzle: Encore of the Night is a puzzler/RPG building on the world and sprites of Symphony of the Night but the gameplay is entirely stats/puzzle based. Gameplay is pretty much a clone of Puzzle Fighter.


...Wow, is that Konami supported?
 
Puzz Chron was surprisingly fun, but REALLY shallow

PQ2 was a let down. It had all the ingredients, but failed to make a cake. There seems to be no way to make varied strategies and it doesn't have the fine balance of the first one. Not even opened my DS copy yet that I'd pre-ordered. Will play eventually.

Might and Magic was fun, but like PQ2 lacked a crucial something that PQ1 still has. Battles take too long and randomness seems to screw you over an awful lot. I traded it.


Don't have an iDevice so still waiting for something to beat PQ1+DLC (the Xbox expansion was just as good as the original game although I'd personally drop the price of both now).
 
cartman414 said:
Nazo Pyuo 1 & 2, though they're Japan only.
I wouldn't really say those are the best Puyo games to come up with. Sure they're solid on the puzzle aspect (think like the Puzzle Challenges in Might and Magic Clash of Heroes) but the RPG aspect is effectively just a HP system (in the Madou Mogonarti style meaning no visiblebars or numbers, just the character face...use that as a HP bar) for allowing you to skip puzzle which gets refiled when you level up (again EXP is like is like Madou Mogonarti, its convedrted to gems round the screen once all positions are full level up). I suppose there is the RPG quest as well but IIRC these were fairly linear. The dialogue is amusing if you can read it (as you expect from something Puyo related).

But a Puyo game that does have more of an RPG element. The RPG mode of Puyo Puyo Box. Here are a couple of screenshots:
gfs_20271_2_18_mid.jpg
gfs_20271_2_23_mid.jpg

I can see Puyo Puyo matches instead of random battles wearing a player out, though.

nli10 said:
Might and Magic was fun, but like PQ2 lacked a crucial something that PQ1 still has. Battles take too long and randomness seems to screw you over an awful lot. I traded it.
Thats the odd thing. I took about 22 hours to go through this (I felt the end chapter was a bit rushed), skipping random battles throughout (hit B) whenever I didn't need to specifically level something (that said I still spread my EXP over units I wasn't even using for the sake of having them leveled). The randomness can be annoying in some places (it doesn't help the harder scenarios but most of the game its a case of lets make the most of this bad start*) and I disliked using champions as a result (as their large size can clog up the field, reducing the combos you can do...sometimes you get really lucky though with 3 of 4 units in place) but their high damage potential (and the AIs bad ability to defend their attacks) made them a necessity)
*-I'm wondering if allowing you to re-roll the start formation would help with this?

Anyway, I was saying. I hear of people taking 60 hours with Puzzle Quest (when I heard these kinds of numbers I stayed away, I like my puzzle games but not to that extent) so either there are a lot more battles or I know slow players...
 
nli10 said:
PQ2 was a let down. It had all the ingredients, but failed to make a cake. There seems to be no way to make varied strategies and it doesn't have the fine balance of the first one.
I think I figured out what the issue is. When they added weapons, that allowed them to make the enemies crazier and HP more abundant, to make the weapons not too overpowered and also not worthless. I feel like they kind of nerfed the magical and strategic side of things in order to make the weapons relevant, less thought and more action hoarding. However, to prevent them from being overpowered they made it a pain in the ass to build up anything, so you have to really commit to one strategy because it just takes too long to build something different but still strong. Then, realizing the focus of the player, they made enemies not strong per-se but just slowly yet surely all dismantled in the exact same way. So you know exactly what to expect, exactly what you'll do about it, and then it takes about the same amount of time whether it's a group of rats or a "boss" character.
 
Beat it. They reeeeaaalllly should have started converting experience into money once you cap out at lvl50. And what is with the guy who has chests to open for 8000 gold? There is a .000004% chance of that ever paying off.
 
Class_A_Ninja said:
This Might and Magic puzzle game, was it not supposed to come out on XBLA and PSN? I would like it, I think.
Yes, it keeps being delayed though. I think Q1 2011 was the latest date.
 
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