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Oklahoma court rules it's legal to "forcibly sodomize" someone if they're unconscious

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watershed

Banned
So serious question, what is the court doing with the issue of consent? This ruling recognizes that the victim was intoxicated and unconscious, so she clearly could not give consent, even according the court. So there should be some other charges like rape no?
 

Wilsongt

Member
Think about this...

Oklahoma is in the process of passing a bathroom bill. They are worried transgendered individuals are going to molest your children while you pee.

Yet... An actual case of rape/molestation is thrown out.

Oklahoma, ladies and gentlemen.
 

GaimeGuy

Volunteer Deputy Campaign Director, Obama for America '16
I wouldn't be surprised if unsound mind also has a very specific legal definition under OK law.

http://www.oscn.net/applications/OCISWeb/DeliverDocument.asp?citeid=71342 - Incapacitated persons

http://law.justia.com/codes/oklahoma/2014/title-15/section-15-16 - persons of unsound mind (with regards to contracts)

http://www.oscn.net/applications/OCISWeb/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=69602 - Rape definition

The courts are arguing by proximity of rape to forcible sodomy and by some kind of weird logical conclusion that force is not used when there is no capacity for resistance.
 

nib95

Banned
I read the OP over and over with my mouth wide agape, hoping this was some sort of misunderstanding or something. Then again, the story is from The Guardian which is a reputable source.

I mean...what? There are literally no words...
 

gamma

Member
Oklahoma court rules it's legal to "forcibly sodomize" someone if they're unconscious

 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
If I'm seeing the right info, this law was revised a couple times in the last 15 years, and somehow the issue of incapacity from alcohol or drugs never came up.

Straight negligent.
 

Caj814

Member
So are they purposely promoting that they're the date rape capital of the US? I wonder how much injustice will have to happen for them to see how stupid this is.
 

MTE

Member
So this sounds crazy, let's just get that out of the way.

But from what I'm reading here, it seems that someone is potentiall considered unconcious if they're black-out drunk? Does this mean that if I'm with a woman and we're both black-out drunk, and she decides to give me a blowjob, I'm raping her?

Serious question.

I realise that you shouldn't engage in sexual activity with someone that's incapable of consenting, but what about if you are too?

I'm not saying that's what happened here.
 
So are they purposely promoting that they're the date rape capital of the US? I wonder how much injustice will have to happen for them to see how stupid this is.

I think the precident they've set would literally have to directly affect them personally for them to even consider the fact that they screwed up.
 

RevenWolf

Member
I'm really glad I'm not a lawyer in America (particularly in this case) because I can basically guarantee is end up being arrested for contempt of court after insulting the judges over and over for such a decision.

I mean holy shit, this is actually making me physically ill. There's a difference between having laws that are outdated, and literally setting a precedent that incentivises the use of liquor and drugs to rape someone!
 

whytemyke

Honorary Canadian.
I hope the judge that made this idiotic sentence gets thrown out after appeal.

Because this shit is getting appealed, right?
It's like a joke I heard once...
Man goes to doctor. Says he's depressed. Life seems harsh, and cruel. Says he feels all alone in threatening world. Doctor says: "Treatment is simple. The great clown - Pagliacci - is in town. Go see him. That should pick you up." Man bursts into tears. "But doctor..." he says "I am Pagliacci." Good joke. Everybody laugh. Roll on snare drum. Curtains.

This was the appeals court.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
It's like a joke I heard once...


This was the appeals court.

The issue is it's a state law, so there is nowhere to go after the state Supreme Court, although I find it difficult type that they are Supreme in this case.
 

Koomaster

Member
I want to post something, but there is nothing to say. It's all around messed up. I can't imagine who would be in favor of this except rapists. Hopefully this loophole gets fixed asap.
 

fritolay

Member
But if you take a piss in the woods in OK, they could you could get a felony for indecent exposure and put on the sex offenders list. OK is the worst state I know.
 

Sblargh

Banned
So this sounds crazy, let's just get that out of the way.

But from what I'm reading here, it seems that someone is potentiall considered unconcious if they're black-out drunk? Does this mean that if I'm with a woman and we're both black-out drunk, and she decides to give me a blowjob, I'm raping her?

Serious question.

I realise that you shouldn't engage in sexual activity with someone that's incapable of consenting, but what about if you are too?

I'm not saying that's what happened here.

How does an unconscious person give you a blowjob?
 

GYODX

Member
Human language is ambiguous and imprecise. If all things had to be explicitly written out, we'd never get anything done. Some things are just plain common fucking sense.
 
I cannot even put into words exactly how stunned I am at that kind of ruling. Since they didn't resist and no force was it wasn't illegal!? THE FUCK!? Them judges are off their fucking rockers holy shit.
 

Nafai1123

Banned
So this sounds crazy, let's just get that out of the way.

But from what I'm reading here, it seems that someone is potentiall considered unconcious if they're black-out drunk? Does this mean that if I'm with a woman and we're both black-out drunk, and she decides to give me a blowjob, I'm raping her?

Serious question.

I realise that you shouldn't engage in sexual activity with someone that's incapable of consenting, but what about if you are too?

I'm not saying that's what happened here.

This question is so completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. She was unconcious, not just black out drunk. Both partners being drunk during sex is a completely different issue of which many people have opinions, but that's not what this is about. It's about someone apparently sober enough to drive, sexually assaulting an unconcious girl, and the appeals court deemed it legal under OK law.
 

hao chi

Member
The fuck? I was already horrified enough when I thought they were saying it's legal to go down on someone that is passed out, but that was nothing compared to my astonishment when I read a bit further and realized they meant you can make passed out people perform oral on you.

Just... what the fuck.


Great way for someone to end up with an STD through no fault of their own.
 

neshcom

Banned
From the defense attorney:
“There was absolutely no evidence of force or him doing anything to make this girl give him oral sex,” McMurray said, “other than she was too intoxicated to consent

WHAT THE FUCK
 
It was a unanimous decision by the appeals court? $20 says the kid is the child of some big wig who's got them all in his pocket. No sane human being would rule like this.
 
So this sounds crazy, let's just get that out of the way.

But from what I'm reading here, it seems that someone is potentiall considered unconcious if they're black-out drunk? Does this mean that if I'm with a woman and we're both black-out drunk, and she decides to give me a blowjob, I'm raping her?

Serious question.

I realise that you shouldn't engage in sexual activity with someone that's incapable of consenting, but what about if you are too?

I'm not saying that's what happened here.
If both people are intoxicated, lawyers have always told me it's basically the first person to the police station at that point.

But this is a situation of just one person being completely incapacitated. There's a clear abuse issue there that these judges are too dense to conclude on. If both people are literally passed out, I'm not really sure how any rape let alone sexual function could occur.
 

Kevinroc

Member
I don't understand how the hell this is possible. I mean... What the hell?!

I know that this can't stand. That some higher court will have to knock this ruling. I just... I just don't understand how, in this day and age, this kind of ruling can happen in the first place.
 
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