On the election result, racism, and blaming white people

Oct 24, 2017
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You're right that black people in germany are very different from black people in the Bronx. Black Culture is a simplified term I'm using for "African American culture". And that's incredibly common vernacular. Just like there is Chinese-American culture, and Irish-American culture, and Mexican-American culture and Native-American culture and German-American culture...

You get the point. I can at least admit that I'm being very America-centric, and I should be more specific. But when people in America say "black culture" that's what they usually mean.

Look, if you type "black culture" in google, all the results are "african american culture"
Ok we have the origin now. So what if if a white person called rachel has grown up in this kind of culture. But Rachel is also white? What if if she feels part of it and dresses like that, acts like hit listening to the same music etc. having braids etc. I she stealing because she is white or is she just part of the black american culture?
 
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Ok we have the origin now. So what if if a white person called rachel has grown up in this kind of culture. But Rachel is also white? What if if she feels part of it and dresses like that, acts like hit listening to the same music etc. having braids etc. I she stealing because she is white or is she just part of the black american culture?
Race is a tricky complex thing.

A lot of people say it doesn't exist. I think there is a lot of merit to that idea. The modern classifications of races as we know them have only existed for the last few centuries (incidentally, around the same amount of time the transatlantic slave trade started happening. Americans really gotta make everything about them huh? :p)

But, those socio-cultural group identifies are rooted in a basic idea that started from misconceptions and descriptions of genetics. Skin color, hair texture, DNA, bone structure. That's how they started it. White people look like this. Black people look like this. Asian people look like this. etc.

The reality is, that Rachel Dolezal, can take off the tanning. She can go back to having her naturally straight hair. If she ever felt like "living as black woman" ever got to hard, she could stop whenever she wants. Black people can't do that. That's the difference.

And of course I'm sure now is the part where you say "oh oh ha gotcha! well trans women could stop if they wanted!" No, gender dysphoria is a real, diagnosed physiological and mental phenomenon, and all medical research into the subject has determined that transition and acceptance in society is the best treatment.

There is no mental condition where someone is born in the wrong race and it actually negatively hurts their brain.

Dolezal might feel an enormous affinity to blackness – so much that she decided to identify as black – but her decision to occupy that identity is one that was forged through her exposure to black culture, not a fundamental attribute of her existence. Someone’s racial identification isn’t automatically less important than their gender in an American context, given our tumultuous history and the ways in which society’s perceptions of both either privilege or restrict one’s economic and social opportunities and mobility. But someone who crosses racial boundaries from a privileged one to a marginalized one is much more likely to do so for political purposes (as Dolezal seems to have done). Transitioning doesn’t often benefit trans people politically or financially; it benefits us because it is a way to begin to make our external presentation match our internal perceptions of ourselves, even as it is likely to disprivilege us socially and economically.
People who try to compare what Dolezal did to Transpeople completely ignore the fact that many trans people don't ever transition. Many never attempt to outwardly express their true gender. And even still, there are plenty of transwoman that don't dress "girly" and trans men that don't dress like "manly men" because they think that's what they are supposed to look like.

Also, I think many here would agree that lying is bad. and saying you are one thing, when you are not, is bad. As a trans woman, I am actually a woman. Dolezal pretended to be black. Hid the identity of her parents.

And if you really are still skeptical and thinking "how can you say trans people aren't lying, but be so confident that Rachel is?" Take a look at some of this:

Doležal has said she was born and lived in a teepee and that the family had hunted for their food with bow and arrow. Her mother stated that she and Doležal's father briefly lived in a teepee in 1974, three years before their daughter was born, and that Doležal's claims were "totally false". From 2002 to 2006, her parents and adopted siblings lived in South Africa as Christian missionaries. Doležal said she lived in South Africa as a child, but her family disputes the claim.[
Her uncle Dan Doležal said that his niece first claimed that a black friend named Albert Wilkerson was her real father around 2012–13, saying that "it caused my brother quite a bit of pain".

Doležal has in interviews referred to her father as her "stepfather", and said her "black father" had fled the Deep South "because a white cop was hunting him".Doležal's mother said she has never met Albert Wilkerson and that Rachel Doležal does not have a stepfather.In a 2015 interview, Doležal said she was "punished by skin complexion" by her mother and "white stepfather", and compared this alleged punishment to the punishment suffered by black slaves. Her brother Ezra Doležal said the accusations of physical punishment were false.
In 2002, Doležal unsuccessfully sued Howard University (a predominantly black school that gave her a full scholarship under the assumption that she was black) for discrimination based on "race, pregnancy, family responsibilities and gender, as well as retaliation". Her lawsuit alleged that she was denied scholarship funds, a teaching assistant position and other opportunities, because she is a white woman. She also alleged that the removal of her artwork from a student exhibition at Howard in 2001 "was motivated by a discriminatory purpose to favor African-American students" over her. Her lawsuit claimed that Howard was "permeated with discriminatory intimidation, ridicule, and insult". During the proceedings, the university's lawyers asked Doležal if she tried to mislead the university by posing as black in her admissions essay, where she had written about "the atrocities so many ancestors faced in America" in the context of black history.
In July 2010, Doležal resigned from Human Rights Education Institute in Kootenai County, and stated to KREM 2 News that "she had been the target of discrimination". Doležal stated on September 29, 2009, to KXLY that a noose had been left on her porch. Doležal's biography on Eastern Washington University's website states that while living in Idaho "at least eight documented hate crimes targeted (Rachel) Dolezal and her children".

Doležal's mother said she was contacted by the media in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, where Rachel lived for seven years. "Law enforcement is conducting an investigation of claims Rachel has made about hate crime threats and in that process of the investigation, the question of 'What is your true ethnicity?' came up, and we were contacted and agreed to speak to the press," Ruthanne said. "It is a sad situation, but the truth is best for everyone." The subsequent police investigation did not support Doležal's allegation. Detectives said the envelope that contained the alleged threats had no postage stamps, barcodes or any other indication of having been handled by the postal service. The postal inspector said "the only way this letter could have ended up in this P.O. box would be if it was placed there by someone with a key to that box or a USPS employee."

Kurt Neumaier, a former member of the oversight board of the Human Rights Education Institute, said he had suspicions about Doležal and that he was concerned that the decision to hire her was done without proper vetting and checking into claims about her background. He said he was suspicious of several incidents Doležal alleged, including her alleged discovery of a swastika on the door of the Human Rights Education Institute when the security camera was "mysteriously turned off." Neumaier concludes that in every incident Doležal has alleged, "she was the sole witness to events that, when put under scrutiny, don't hold up". English journalist Dominic Lawson has ranked Doležal as "the most spectacular example of the growing phenomenon of people posing as victims", which he says is a "consequence of a culture which portrays victimhood as a form of moral superiority".
I bet you perked up at that last bit.

My opinion on all this, is that it is completely obvious that she is a huge liar. And if you really want "transracialism" to be regarded as a potential valid identity.... well, maybe there should be more than literally ONE person who claims to identify as transracial, and that one person shouldn't be a huge lying liar.

I believe, that a large majority of the people trying to make the connection between transgenderism and "transracialism" are doing so out of ignorance and misconceptions both about transgenderism, and race, and also they haven't read ANY of the backstory of Rachel Dolezal that I just posted. All people hear is "woman claims she's actually black on the inside and people are mad about it. Trans people claim they are a different gender on the inside, so it's exactly the same thing in every way, and that's the absolutely maximum amount of thought I'm going to give to the subject." SOME of those people, quite possibly most of them, are doing so many malicious intentions, in an attempt to belittle the identities of trans people, black people, or possibly both.
 
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Race is a tricky complex thing.

A lot of people say it doesn't exist. I think there is a lot of merit to that idea. The modern classifications of races as we know them have only existed for the last few centuries (incidentally, around the same amount of time the transatlantic slave trade started happening. Americans really gotta make everything about them huh? :p)

But, those socio-cultural group identifies are rooted in a basic idea that started from misconceptions and descriptions of genetics. Skin color, hair texture, DNA, bone structure. That's how they started it. White people look like this. Black people look like this. Asian people look like this. etc.

The reality is, that Rachel Dolezal, can take off the tanning. She can go back to having her naturally straight hair. If she ever felt like "living as black woman" ever got to hard, she could stop whenever she wants. Black people can't do that. That's the difference.

And of course I'm sure now is the part where you say "oh oh ha gotcha! well trans women could stop if they wanted!" No, gender dysphoria is a real, diagnosed physiological and mental phenomenon, and all medical research into the subject has determined that transition and acceptance in society is the best treatment.

There is no mental condition where someone is born in the wrong race and it actually negatively hurts their brain.



People who try to compare what Dolezal did to Transpeople completely ignore the fact that many trans people don't ever transition. Many never attempt to outwardly express their true gender. And even still, there are plenty of transwoman that don't dress "girly" and trans men that don't dress like "manly men" because they think that's what they are supposed to look like.

Also, I think many here would agree that lying is bad. and saying you are one thing, when you are not, is bad. As a trans woman, I am actually a woman. Dolezal pretended to be black. Hid the identity of her parents.

And if you really are still skeptical and thinking "how can you say trans people aren't lying, but be so confident that Rachel is?" Take a look at some of this:









I bet you perked up at that last bit.

My opinion on all this, is that it is completely obvious that she is a huge liar. And if you really want "transracialism" to be regarded as a potential valid identity.... well, maybe there should be more than literally ONE person who claims to identify as transracial, and that one person shouldn't be a huge lying liar.

I believe, that a large majority of the people trying to make the connection between transgenderism and "transracialism" are doing so out of ignorance and misconceptions both about transgenderism, and race, and also they haven't read ANY of the backstory of Rachel Dolezal that I just posted. All people hear is "woman claims she's actually black on the inside and people are mad about it. Trans people claim they are a different gender on the inside, so it's exactly the same thing in every way, and that's the absolutely maximum amount of thought I'm going to give to the subject." SOME of those people, quite possibly most of them, are doing so many malicious intentions, in an attempt to belittle the identities of trans people, black people, or possibly both.
I think you are wayyyy over-complicating it. She is ethnically white (immutable) and has chosen to be culturally black (mutable).
 
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I think you are wayyyy over-complicating it. She is ethnically white (immutable) and has chosen to be culturally black (mutable).
Dude. She said she was "transracial".

She tried to argue that while transpeople have a literal mental condition known as gender dysphoria, and their gender is incongruent with their body, her race is incongruent wiht hers, mentally. And many people have tried to use this to both belittle trans identity and black identity since 2015 when this all came to light. She was lying.

She has literally pretended to be black. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that. She did not "choose" to be culturally black, because that's not a choice you can make, and even if it WAS, she was lying!
 
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I did not want to go the transracial route even though I beleive that this would be a mental illness whichmeans there was something in her life that made her think this. And in her case it is pretty certain that this was her lifestyle growing up in such a culture. I do not think she is lying and there are indeed more cases like hers

However was talking about culture and how anyone can be part of this culture and that white people do not steal black culture but rather mix it with their own culture. When we for example talk about black culture like you call it we also talk about hairstyles and how some people (I do not know if you also do) getting outraged by a white person wearing braids for example. Why can we not celebrate the mixture of cultures to bond together? Another example would be the outrage during a Monet exibit in which people could dress in a Kimono and takes pictures. While Asian America called this racist and protested actual Japanese people thought it was a nice idea and actually want that other people wear their Kimonos etc. So who do we beleive in this case? And why is it bad? Why is it bad when a Yoga teacher teaches disabled people the Yoga and its culture only because she is white? They are not stealing anything they found a lifestyle they like and want other to take part in it.

When we talk about RAP music or Jazz or whatever why is it bad when white people also do this? The current atmosphere has gone so far that people are suggesting to not even use black gifs if you are white because it is a digital blackface. I mean come on. Cultural appropriation is fucking stupid IMO and we should be happy if our cultures mix...

And if we go back to this thread this is also something that made people vote for trump. The absolute ridicule view on political correctness in which companies like google even remove a fucking egg in a emoji to be more inclusive to vegan people...... It has all become about race which these people most upset about think is a social cunstruct and it is al about race because they can blame white people.

I see tweets with thousands of like in which people argue that politeness is White and that we do not want this....
 
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I did not want to go the transracial route even though I beleive that this would be a mental illness whichmeans there was something in her life that made her think this. And in her case it is pretty certain that this was her lifestyle growing up in such a culture. I do not think she is lying and there are indeed more cases like hers

However was talking about culture and how anyone can be part of this culture and that white people do not steal black culture but rather mix it with their own culture. When we for example talk about black culture like you call it we also talk about hairstyles and how some people (I do not know if you also do) getting outraged by a white person wearing braids for example. Why can we not celebrate the mixture of cultures to bond together? Another example would be the outrage during a Monet exibit in which people could dress in a Kimono and takes pictures. While Asian America called this racist and protested actual Japanese people thought it was a nice idea and actually want that other people wear their Kimonos etc. So who do we beleive in this case? And why is it bad? Why is it bad when a Yoga teacher teaches disabled people the Yoga and its culture only because she is white? They are not stealing anything they found a lifestyle they like and want other to take part in it.

When we talk about RAP music or Jazz or whatever why is it bad when white people also do this? The current atmosphere has gone so far that people are suggesting to not even use black gifs if you are white because it is a digital blackface. I mean come on. Cultural appropriation is fucking stupid IMO and we should be happy if our cultures mix...

And if we go back to this thread this is also something that made people vote for trump. The absolute ridicule view on political correctness in which companies like google even remove a fucking egg in a emoji to be more inclusive to vegan people......
I notice you have a knack for not addressing the things I really say and creating a bunch of other arguments and bones you want to pick that are only somewhat related, and clog your posts with them giving people far too much to respond to. I could answer all of these questions if I didn't think it was completely fruitless.

I mean, right there you said you don't think Rachel was lying. I don't know how you could read everything I posted and still think that. I have no reason to believe any of my answers to any of your questions would satisfy you or change your mind in any way. I know the questions were completely facetious because you ended your post with "cultural appropriation is fucking stupid".

Okay. Not an argument I feel like having on this site, ever. I think you're completely wrong. You do you.

I think it's weird that so many on this site feel the need to inject "this is why trump won" into everything.

also like that little asian-americans people this but "ACTUAL japanese people think it's okay" thing you did. Cute.
 
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I notice you have a knack for not addressing the things I really say and creating a bunch of other arguments and bones you want to pick that are only somewhat related, and clog your posts with them giving people far too much to respond to. I could answer all of these questions if I didn't think it was completely fruitless.

I mean, right there you said you don't think Rachel was lying. I don't know how you could read everything I posted and still think that. I have no reason to believe any of my answers to any of your questions would satisfy you or change your mind in any way. I know the questions were completely facetious because you ended your post with "cultural appropriation is fucking stupid".

Okay. Not an argument I feel like having on this site, ever. I think you're completely wrong. You do you.

I think it's weird that so many on this site feel the need to inject "this is why trump won" into everything.

also like that little asian-americans people this but "ACTUAL japanese people think it's okay" thing you did. Cute.
First of all.lets assume just assume she has a multiple personality disorder then she would not be lying. Lying to me is that she did it and she knows that she is lying to gain an advantage be it money etc. And I do not think that she did that.

Secondly I read all your posts and I move from there. And I beleive many people say this is why Trump won because it is way more complex than the evil white people are racist. Hell Trump did better with black people than many other conservatives. She reasoning because people are racist is exactly the problem that will lead either to another Trump election or someone like him. It wa also not because men hate women....

And I do not find it cute when Asian amrican getting triggered by something they normally do not even use, celebrate whatever. Asian american have almost NOTHING to do with japanese culture still they argure in behalf of these people. Who fucking do not care. They do not care if Scarlet Johanson plays MAjor in Ghost in the shell. They do not care if you wear a Kimono and they do not care if you use part of their language. Quite the opposite actually. Japan is also a country which stole the language from China Japanese fashion is often trendsetting for western markets as well. MAny fashion designer look at the trend in Japan. Japan is perfect at mixing and taking from different culture without this bagge of being racist etc. So no it is not cute it is fucking annyoing when a chinese american women want to tell me how it is racist when a white person is wearing a Kimono.

And Cultural appropriation is stupid and a sign of todays climate and political correctness and yes also a reason why Trump has won if you want it or not. People are fed up with outrage culture and this ongoing victimhood culture.
 
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First of all.lets assume just assume she has a multiple personality disorder then she would not be lying. Lying to me is that she did it and she knows that she is lying to gain an advantage be it money etc. And I do not think that she did that.

Secondly I read all your posts and I move from there. And I beleive many people say this is why Trump won because it is way more complex than the evil white people are racist. Hell Trump did better with black people than many other conservatives. She reasoning because people are racist is exactly the problem that will lead either to another Trump election or someone like him. It wa also not because men hate women....

And I do not find it cute when Asian amrican getting triggered by something they normally do not even use, celebrate whatever. Asian american have almost NOTHING to do with japanese culture still they argure in behalf of these people. Who fucking do not care. They do not care if Scarlet Johanson plays MAjor in Ghost in the shell. They do not care if you wear a Kimono and they do not care if you use part of their language. Quite the opposite actually. Japan is also a country which stole the language from China Japanese fashion is often trendsetting for western markets as well. MAny fashion designer look at the trend in Japan. Japan is perfect at mixing and taking from different culture without this bagge of being racist etc. So no it is not cute it is fucking annyoing when a chinese american women want to tell me how it is racist when a white person is wearing a Kimono.

And Cultural appropriation is stupid and a sign of todays climate and political correctness and yes also a reason why Trump has won if you want it or not. People are fed up with outrage culture and this ongoing victimhood culture.
k.

Feel free to continuing having an argument by yourself.
 
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Dude. She said she was "transracial".

She tried to argue that while transpeople have a literal mental condition known as gender dysphoria, and their gender is incongruent with their body, her race is incongruent wiht hers, mentally. And many people have tried to use this to both belittle trans identity and black identity since 2015 when this all came to light. She was lying.

She has literally pretended to be black. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that. She did not "choose" to be culturally black, because that's not a choice you can make, and even if it WAS, she was lying!
Ok. Her feelings don’t override what I suggested.
 
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Trans racialism is yet another reason to not de-medicalize transsexuality. When you make being trans a social thing anyone can be anything. There is no medical basis for trans racialism beyond,"I wish I were black" for Dolezel. GJ, SJW's.

You're right that black people in germany are very different from black people in the Bronx. Black Culture is a simplified term I'm using for "African American culture". And that's incredibly common vernacular. Just like there is Chinese-American culture, and Irish-American culture, and Mexican-American culture and Native-American culture and German-American culture...

You get the point. I can at least admit that I'm being very America-centric, and I should be more specific. But when people in America say "black culture" that's what they usually mean.

Look, if you type "black culture" in google, all the results are "african american culture"
Why is this a problem? We made our own culture that is distinct from African culture. Brazil got 1 million slaves. Tons of black people live there. Did they lose their culture? No. They modified it. Same for Cuba, Dominican Republic, and Haiti. We created our own culture, identifiably superior to the old one out of pain and oppression.

Did Africans make HBCU's? Did Africans extend Democracy by demanding equal rights in America? Did Africans make negro spirituals? Did Africans make jazz, blues, rock and roll, hip hop, or reggae? Nah. That was us. The descendents of the diaspora. That is our culture. That is our identity.
 
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Trans racialism is yet another reason to not de-medicalize transsexuality. When you make being trans a social thing anyone can be anything. There is no medical basis for trans racialism beyond,"I wish I were black" for Dolezel. GJ, SJW's.



Why is this a problem? We made our own culture that is distinct from African culture. Brazil got 1 million slaves. Tons of black people live there. Did they lose their culture? No. They modified it. Same for Cuba, Dominican Republic, and Haiti. We created our own culture, identifiably superior to the old one out of pain and oppression.

Did Africans make HBCU's? Did Africans extend Democracy by demanding equal rights in America? Did Africans make negro spirituals? Did Africans make jazz, blues, rock and roll, hip hop, or reggae? Nah. That was us. The descendents of the diaspora. That is our culture. That is our identity.
Didn’t say was a problem. I completely disagree and hate all of your beliefs in regards to gender but in terms of black culture I think you’re completely right
 
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No, it's okay. I'm not mad or offended. You're right. It felt good. I had so much anger. It felt good calling white people this and white people that. It felt amazing and cathartic. But none of that shows how much damage it did to me internally - in my soul and spirit.

What would I say? Well, it'd be hard to convince me or someone else otherwise because the entire ideology is steeped in the premise that we are past dialogue and that dialogue is pointless.

I mean, for me, a big part of my turning away from it was becoming Christian again. When I was deeply entrenched in identity politics I pushed away anyone who disagreed with me. Even people that were friends just because they were white because "white people cannot understand black people" and "I'm tired of explaining black people" to white people. I've since repented. I've contacted those old friends I left adrift and apologized profusely and we made up. But they're full of things I wouldn't have wanted to hear two years ago because I was so sure that we were right. That we were the future. That we were justified in anger and treatment of white people. My racism and hate was the first sin I confessed when I became a Catholic. The thought of confessing the emotions I had towards white people and reflecting on them almost made me throw up while waiting in line for my turn to confess. I am truly sorry for anything I said and that's all I can offer. I know it's not much but it's all I got. I want to learn to teach love, but I have such a poisonous history that I'm scared I don't know how to. That's what hate feels like. I am truly remorseful and sorry.

But that's another element that's relevant to this "movement". It is identifiably secular which I think helps create this mind set. It's easy to point fingers and say white people did this, and did that. And they did! But that's the kicker. The identity politics SJW's don't look at themselves as fallible. That's why they want to censor speech while also calling half the country fascists. This speaks to what you mentioned: about how we were smug, felt we were all knowing. We thought we were infallible. White people historically have a bad track record with black people, we thought, which means we could never be as bad as a white person. Or as rude. Or as racist. Or just as dehumanizing. Which completely runs contrary to what Christianity teaches: that we are all sinners and fallible creatures with a potentially evil nature. IDpol is a symptom of secularism that doesn't see racism for the evil that it truly is and that we are all - all of us - capable of enacting it.

It truly breaks into the human conceit that we could never be evil. Only them. Those people.

That's not to say they don't have points either. Our anger is actually justified and I refuse to relent on that point. But like in Black Panther, our justified anger has become,"burn everything."
I'm not religious myself at all but I'm glad it was able to help you get to a more positive place and shed the ideology that was causing you more negativity.

Personally I was never offended exactly by your/anyone's claims about white people etc... I mostly just rolled my eyes or sighed and just threw my hands in the air and backed out of the conversation. I'm not American so maybe that's why it didn't bother me as much as it seemed to bother other people? I think it was definitely going to keep pushing people away though and alienating good people who were generally on your side, for lack of a better term.

It is always very strange looking in at the political/societal structure of America from an outsider's perspective.
 
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I'm sorry you feel this way, but the reality of history is that the african diaspora, especially but definitely not limited to the African American disaspora, had much of their culture, families and way of life taken from them, and they were forced to be a subclass of people, and that has forever shaped them into something completely different, and not of their own choice whatsoever.

For example, past my great great grandmother, I have no idea what my ancestry is. For an essay I had to write for school, I asked my grandmother for the oldest family photos she had. I was hoping to find something, and trace of a potential relative that was pre-abolition. No such record exists, because many of them have been destroyed and discarded as trash. Lost to the wastebasket of history.

Similarly, I don't actually know where in Africa I'm from, like millions of other black people in America. "Of those Africans who arrived in the United States, nearly half came from two regions: Senegambia, the area comprising the Senegal and Gambia Rivers and the land between them, or today’s Senegal, Gambia, Guinea-Bissau and Mali; and west-central Africa, including what is now Angola, Congo, the Democratic Republic of Congo and Gabon. In addition to the nearly 50 percent of the total number of enslaved Africans in the United States from these two regions, a considerable number of slaves had their origins on the so-called Gold Coast or “Slave Coast,” which is now the West African nation of Ghana, as well as neighboring parts of the Windward Coast, now Ivory Coast."

It's somewhere in there. But obviously, the lands and the cultures that dictate those regions are completely divorced from me as a black American, and I feel little to no connection to them whatsoever, and they don't to me.

I don't think any group of people deserves having their culture and history forceably and violently taken from them. Black people are ABSOLUTELY not the only group it has happened to.

But that's what happened. And oftentimes, the ways in which we try to express black culture in modern times is disparaged and ridiculed. I've seen a lot of people on this site saying things like rap are "culture" in the loosest sense of the word, or not at all. The way we speak is often ridiculed is another easy example. Well, I'm very sorry that the culture we have is not good enough to be culture for many people.
I am not trying to be dismissive of your experience but I am a white man and i don't know any more about my lineage and ancestry than you. I have always been curious but don't really have a way to investigate either. I know I have a little native american, swedish, french maybe, but I have really always just seen myself as a mutt. Luckily I don't ascribe my identity to any of these things. I am a human being and that is my team.

As such I want everybody to have a life of peace and happiness as long as they don't hurt others (not in the left sense of "hurt") or try to force their way of life on others. I grew up in an extremely conservative house in an extremely liberal state (Oregon) and myself had always identified as liberal or left until the last few years. That was when the left started utilizing the far-right or evangelistic tactic of trying to force certain ideals on everybody.

I am not sure of my point other than to say a lot of people have no idea about their ancestry regardless of how their ancestors were treated. If we stop using identity as a way to separate and rather try to find shared experiences and commonalities we will do much better as a species.
 
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I am not trying to be dismissive of your experience but I am a white man and i don't know any more about my lineage and ancestry than you. I have always been curious but don't really have a way to investigate either. I know I have a little native american, swedish, french maybe, but I have really always just seen myself as a mutt. Luckily I don't ascribe my identity to any of these things. I am a human being and that is my team.

As such I want everybody to have a life of peace and happiness as long as they don't hurt others (not in the left sense of "hurt") or try to force their way of life on others. I grew up in an extremely conservative house in an extremely liberal state (Oregon) and myself had always identified as liberal or left until the last few years. That was when the left started utilizing the far-right or evangelistic tactic of trying to force certain ideals on everybody.

I am not sure of my point other than to say a lot of people have no idea about their ancestry regardless of how their ancestors were treated. If we stop using identity as a way to separate and rather try to find shared experiences and commonalities we will do much better as a species.
I hear you.

But this isn’t a perfect world, and my blackness isn’t gonna stop being a thing just because I say it is. I know a lot of people here roll their eyes at that idea, but that’s just what it is.

OJ famously said “I’m not black, I’m OJ!”

Ok. 🙄

I’m trying to say this as respectfully as possible but... I think there a lot of factors in society that make it easier for the average white American to feel no need to have a strong sense of culture. That’s only slowly growing for a minority of Asian Americans and Hispanic Americans. it’s much harder for black Americans, usually. No matter what we do it is going to speak positively or positively towards the group.

I subscribe to embracing that identity and living my life the best I can to realize my goals and the sense of culture and perseverance and all that we’ve been able to make in the face of that brings me joy and calm when faced with the injustices of the world.
 
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Direct sequel to the 1987 movie... this pleases me.
I’m trying to say this as respectfully as possible but... I think there a lot of factors in society that make it easier for the average white American to feel no need to have a strong sense of culture.
Frankly, that type of culture is frowned upon anyway. James Brown did "I'm black and I'm proud" as a rallying call for his people.

What happens if a guy puts out "I'm white and I'm proud?" The dissertation would immediately view it as a form of white power or something racist. We have black marches all the time but any white march would be considered some KKK thing. It's flat-out frowned upon to have this really proud white culture in certain areas in the same way that other races have the same thing. It's a double-standard but that's how it is.

In the end, whitey will be fine. The nice thing about the races is there's really no "racist terms" that the other races can say about whitey that ruins their day...unlike all the stuff whites can say that will other races will say "degrades" them...and, I hate to say it, but this is a power whitey has over the other races. When minorities lose it over racist comments than that's a power that someone else holds over them...and as long as they continue to overreact and get angry, those comments will continue to be used since the haters know it has power over the minorities to ruin their day with just a comment. Whitey doesn't have that issue and it's definitely an advantage.
 
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Frankly, that type of culture is frowned upon anyway. James Brown did "I'm black and I'm proud" as a rallying call for his people.

What happens if a guy puts out "I'm white and I'm proud?" The dissertation would immediately view it as a form of white power or something racist. We have black marches all the time but any white march would be considered some KKK thing. It's flat-out frowned upon to have this really proud white culture in certain areas in the same way that other races have the same thing. It's a double-standard but that's how it is.

In the end, whitey will be fine. The nice thing about the races is there's really no "racist terms" that the other races can say about whitey that ruins their day...unlike all the stuff whites can say that will other races will say "degrades" them...and, I hate to say it, but this is a power whitey has over the other races. When minorities lose it over racist comments than that's a power that someone else holds over them...and as long as they continue to overreact and get angry, those comments will continue to be used since the haters know it has power over the minorities to ruin their day with just a comment. Whitey doesn't have that issue and it's definitely an advantage.
You're quoting me from the Robocop thread :p
 
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I hear you.

But this isn’t a perfect world, and my blackness isn’t gonna stop being a thing just because I say it is. I know a lot of people here roll their eyes at that idea, but that’s just what it is.

OJ famously said “I’m not black, I’m OJ!”

Ok. 🙄

I’m trying to say this as respectfully as possible but... I think there a lot of factors in society that make it easier for the average white American to feel no need to have a strong sense of culture. That’s only slowly growing for a minority of Asian Americans and Hispanic Americans. it’s much harder for black Americans, usually. No matter what we do it is going to speak positively or positively towards the group.

I subscribe to embracing that identity and living my life the best I can to realize my goals and the sense of culture and perseverance and all that we’ve been able to make in the face of that brings me joy and calm when faced with the injustices of the world.
I am going to say one of those things I am not supposed to say now. My best friend from childhood is black. I was basically part of his family. I don't say this for any reason other than to state that I agree with you. I had an up close and personal experience of what life was like for him in a majority white neighborhood. Due to this I really try not to dismiss people's experiences as I have seen first hand how his were regularly dismissed as over-reactive and such.

Identity is such a weird thing to me but a big part of that is a contradiction I could never get my head around. Black pride is a strong, positive thing while white pride is Aryan hate speech. This type of dialogue has existed as long as I have been alive. When whiteness is seen as the cause of all evil and to be proud of being white is equal to neo nazism it makes being proud of my own race impossible. Now in the last couple of years we've added straight and "cis" people into this list as well and I check both of those boxes too.

I have never even wanted to be proud of being white because of all of this and I think slowly this belief has creeped into how I view other people's identity if that makes sense.
 
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I'm so glad Donald Trump won. Now white people are starting to stand up for themselves like I've never seen before and refuse to be blamed for the failures of others. I think it's glorious.

I'm sorry if someone considers this racist, but I really don't care.
 
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I'm so glad Donald Trump won. Now white people are starting to stand up for themselves like I've never seen before and refuse to be blamed for the failures of others. I think it's glorious.

I'm sorry if someone considers this racist, but I really don't care.
lol yeah, it's great that white people are finally taking charge of the situation for the first time in American history.
 
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I am not trying to be dismissive of your experience but I am a white man and i don't know any more about my lineage and ancestry than you. I have always been curious but don't really have a way to investigate either. I know I have a little native american, swedish, french maybe, but I have really always just seen myself as a mutt. Luckily I don't ascribe my identity to any of these things. I am a human being and that is my team.

As such I want everybody to have a life of peace and happiness as long as they don't hurt others (not in the left sense of "hurt") or try to force their way of life on others. I grew up in an extremely conservative house in an extremely liberal state (Oregon) and myself had always identified as liberal or left until the last few years. That was when the left started utilizing the far-right or evangelistic tactic of trying to force certain ideals on everybody.

I am not sure of my point other than to say a lot of people have no idea about their ancestry regardless of how their ancestors were treated. If we stop using identity as a way to separate and rather try to find shared experiences and commonalities we will do much better as a species.
I just really disagree. I think it's wrong to say,"well I don't know my history and I don't give a shit so it doesn't matter." For you it might not, but for people like MamaRice and I it matters a lot. Our histories in this country and abroad start with the Transatlantic Slave Trade. That's all we know. We don't know what country our people are from besides that they're from the western tip of the African continent, and they mixed and matched to the point where it's almost impossible for us to find out beyond a DNA test.

I think there's pride in knowing and embracing your cultural history, where values and culture are passed down from generation to generation. I truly envy that. In a way, black Americans have had to start over. We are an entirely new people. So there's good that comes with that, and the pride it instills that I described above to Mama, but it's also depressing and lonely. One of the biggest qualifiers of being American is having something you bring to America from your homeland. Something you can claim is yours and made over centuries by your people. It can be something basic like a Japanese-American immigrant family making a ramen shop. Or being able to participate in an international parade and say,"that's my heritage and I gift it to you, my fellow Americans." We can't do that. A lot of our culture was created through pain. Soul food was created because it was scraps for slaves. Blues was created out of the pain of slavery. Our greatest poetry is about discrimination and hatred. Hip Hop was born out of the destruction of the neglected burroughs of NYC. Everything we are, everything we are about is about pain. And it'd be nice to have some cultural exchange that isn't a reminder of that.

I don't see what's wrong with wanting more than that.

Frankly, that type of culture is frowned upon anyway. James Brown did "I'm black and I'm proud" as a rallying call for his people.

What happens if a guy puts out "I'm white and I'm proud?" The dissertation would immediately view it as a form of white power or something racist. We have black marches all the time but any white march would be considered some KKK thing. It's flat-out frowned upon to have this really proud white culture in certain areas in the same way that other races have the same thing. It's a double-standard but that's how it is.

In the end, whitey will be fine. The nice thing about the races is there's really no "racist terms" that the other races can say about whitey that ruins their day...unlike all the stuff whites can say that will other races will say "degrades" them...and, I hate to say it, but this is a power whitey has over the other races. When minorities lose it over racist comments than that's a power that someone else holds over them...and as long as they continue to overreact and get angry, those comments will continue to be used since the haters know it has power over the minorities to ruin their day with just a comment. Whitey doesn't have that issue and it's definitely an advantage.
This is one of my biggest pet peeves with white people. Many say "if you said white power it'd be construe as racist" as if these things existed in a vacuum. James Browns' song came out less than ten years after apartheid in America was made illegal. Radio stations were still segregated, and some schools didn't fully integrate until the bloody 70's. It should be obvious why James Brown was about uplifting people that had literally had legally been granted first class citizen status that very decade. James Brown's song came out the very year that MLK was assassinated: 1968. To complain James Brown made a song in that time period expressing black pride is foolish and awfully mean spirited.

Again, it's like you're making these things exist in a vacuum regardless of context or history. Saying people who literally had to fight to be included in wider society, whose children were protested for even attending the same school as white kids, that they're proud to be black is the same thing as a white person saying they're proud to be white? Double standard?

I may no longer be an SJW but I am no dummy and your argument is a crock of shit, I'm sorry to say.
 
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I think there's pride in knowing and embracing your cultural history, where values and culture are passed down from generation to generation. I truly envy that. In a way, black Americans have had to start over. We are an entirely new people. So there's good that comes with that, and the pride it instills that I described above to Mama, but it's also depressing and lonely. One of the biggest qualifiers of being American is having something you bring to America from your homeland. Something you can claim is yours and made over centuries by your people. It can be something basic like a Japanese-American immigrant family making a ramen shop. Or being able to participate in an international parade and say,"that's my heritage and I gift it to you, my fellow Americans." We can't do that. A lot of our culture was created through pain. Soul food was created because it was scraps for slaves. Blues was created out of the pain of slavery. Our greatest poetry is about discrimination and hatred. Hip Hop was born out of the destruction of the neglected burroughs of NYC. Everything we are, everything we are about is about pain. And it'd be nice to have some cultural exchange that isn't a reminder of that.

I don't see what's wrong with wanting more than that.


I may no longer be an SJW but I am no dummy and your argument is a crock of shit, I'm sorry to say.
There's that fire I've been missing. I can't clap for the christian thing, the Ann Coulter avatar, or that wall foolishness you been droppin, but we here on this black-ish.
 
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There's that fire I've been missing. I can't clap for the christian thing, the Ann Coulter avatar, or that wall foolishness you been droppin, but we here on this black-ish.
The Ann Coulter avvy is just self deprecating humor. I can change it if you want.

Sorry I pushed you away. Thank you for rocking the Prince of pop still. I just want Mama to talk to me. I'm scared I've fucked up and now they don't wanna be peas and carrots with me anymore.
 
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The Ann Coulter avvy is just self deprecating humor. I can change it if you want.
Do you , booboo. I ain't trippin.
Thank you for rocking the Prince of pop still.
4ever.
I just want Mama to talk to me. I'm scared I've fucked up and now they don't wanna be peas and carrots with me anymore.
Mama strikes me as a young idealist in her all or nothing phase. Give her time. Old queens like me have learned to ignore the ugliness in people, lest be we unable function in our day to day, especially in places where we are outnumbered by those we deem undesirable.
 
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Do you , booboo. I ain't trippin.

4ever.

Mama strikes me as a young idealist in her all or nothing phase. Give her time. Old queens like me have learned to ignore the ugliness in people, lest be we unable function in our day to day, especially in places where we are outnumbered by those we deem undesirable.
Peace queen.
 
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Like come on, this shit just looks cool!

I'm familiar with that album cover, but wasn't familiar with the back cover. That just takes it to a whole other level. It's some great album art.

This is one of my biggest pet peeves with white people. Many say "if you said white power it'd be construe as racist" as if these things existed in a vacuum. James Browns' song came out less than ten years after apartheid in America was made illegal. Radio stations were still segregated, and some schools didn't fully integrate until the bloody 70's. It should be obvious why James Brown was about uplifting people that had literally had legally been granted first class citizen status that very decade. James Brown's song came out the very year that MLK was assassinated: 1968. To complain James Brown made a song in that time period expressing black pride is foolish and awfully mean spirited.

Again, it's like you're making these things exist in a vacuum regardless of context or history. Saying people who literally had to fight to be included in wider society, whose children were protested for even attending the same school as white kids, that they're proud to be black is the same thing as a white person saying they're proud to be white? Double standard?

I may no longer be an SJW but I am no dummy and your argument is a crock of shit, I'm sorry to say.
Full agreement. I've never understood that argument myself. As far as conservative thought goes, I would think creating equality to black pride shouldn't be answered with white pride. It should be answered with questioning racial pride altogether, condemning generalizations, and preaching inclusiveness and unity. Black pride in the 60s wasn't about feeling superior because of your skin color, it was about saying "fuck off, I'm not going to feel shamed for my skin color."

If people feel the need to say "fuck off, I'm not going to feel shamed for my skin color" in 2018, then maybe consider supporting them in that statement, and making sure they feel the same about all other races. If they do, then I don't care what race they are, you're fighting for the same thing.
 
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I just really disagree. I think it's wrong to say,"well I don't know my history and I don't give a shit so it doesn't matter." For you it might not, but for people like MamaRice and I it matters a lot. Our histories in this country and abroad start with the Transatlantic Slave Trade. That's all we know. We don't know what country our people are from besides that they're from the western tip of the African continent, and they mixed and matched to the point where it's almost impossible for us to find out beyond a DNA test.

I think there's pride in knowing and embracing your cultural history, where values and culture are passed down from generation to generation. I truly envy that. In a way, black Americans have had to start over. We are an entirely new people. So there's good that comes with that, and the pride it instills that I described above to Mama, but it's also depressing and lonely. One of the biggest qualifiers of being American is having something you bring to America from your homeland. Something you can claim is yours and made over centuries by your people. It can be something basic like a Japanese-American immigrant family making a ramen shop. Or being able to participate in an international parade and say,"that's my heritage and I gift it to you, my fellow Americans." We can't do that. A lot of our culture was created through pain. Soul food was created because it was scraps for slaves. Blues was created out of the pain of slavery. Our greatest poetry is about discrimination and hatred. Hip Hop was born out of the destruction of the neglected burroughs of NYC. Everything we are, everything we are about is about pain. And it'd be nice to have some cultural exchange that isn't a reminder of that.

I don't see what's wrong with wanting more than that.
I absolutely respect that and I don’t want to discourage anybody from exploring their ancestry/heritage. My long winded attempt at a point was just trying to express the shared experience of not knowing where you come from.
 
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James Brown did "I'm black and I'm proud" as a rallying call for his people.

What happens if a guy puts out "I'm white and I'm proud?"
My reply to this can be found in post 127, but I wanted to say one other thing about James Brown. For all those conservatives (and anyone else) who support the idea of equal opportunity and oppose the idea of racial victimhood, this should be your theme song.

 
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The thing I always note in terms of History. History is important, history is there to analyze certain events to understand why these did happen. history HOWEVER should never be used to justify things today or to shame and guilt people who had nothing to do with it. History is also a place where feelings should not matter but to objectively tell why something did happen. So yes also Black History in America is important and it needs to be integrated in the school system for when it does happen in a chronological order. But these yearly black history month events are fucking stupid but America seems to love their fucking stupid month celebrations.
 
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The thing I always note in terms of History. History is important, history is there to analyze certain events to understand why these did happen. history HOWEVER should never be used to justify things today or to shame and guilt people who had nothing to do with it. History is also a place where feelings should not matter but to objectively tell why something did happen. So yes also Black History in America is important and it needs to be integrated in the school system for when it does happen in a chronological order. But these yearly black history month events are fucking stupid but America seems to love their fucking stupid month celebrations.
You're right that black history should be much more interegrated into schools. But it's not. And many don't want it to be. Black history month is a band-aid for it.
 
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You're right that black history should be much more interegrated into schools. But it's not. And many don't want it to be. Black history month is a band-aid for it.
And to be able to talk about black history more you need to cut of this band aid and integrate it. I can not believe how difficult this seems to be in America it was not possible during Obama or trump.
 
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And to be able to talk about black history more you need to cut of this band aid and integrate it. I can not believe how difficult this seems to be.
Tell that to all the white politicians and board of education leaders that don't care about black history, Dunki.

I think I remember once you said you lived in Germany? I can tell. A lot of your posts reveal a deep ignorance about American society.
 
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We're so quick to blame, so quick to label and place everyone in their proper group, when in reality every individual has the capacity to learn and to change opinions. That is democracy. If we didn't believe that debate and reasoning could change a person's viewpoint, we'd still be stuck in the feudal age. When I began hearing "white people" used as a dismissive kinda-sorta-slur in a non-ironic way I knew we'd forgotten this fundamental piece of our civilization.

That's what was forgotten during (and after) the election season. The notion that you're "white" therefore you 1) voted for Trump 2) hate non-white people and 3) are privileged was chiseled in stone. And I think many folks got power-drunk when they realized they could simply look at someone and cast universal judgment without any real consequences.

Now we're dealing with a classic case of naked emperor: anyone can point at the flaccid dick hanging out and say "but wait, I thought sweeping judgments based on skin color were bad" and it all comes tumbling down. The pseudo-intellectuals rush in with the mob hot on their tail. "Looks like we got ourselves a Whitey who don't think he got privilege." But that's already crumbling. The philosophical core is vacant. You can't simultaneously denounce racism but then keep a little version to yourself and say "no, you don't understand. This kind of racism is acceptable because reasons". It's either right or it's wrong.
 
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A lot of people say it doesn't exist. I think there is a lot of merit to that idea. The modern classifications of races as we know them have only existed for the last few centuries (incidentally, around the same amount of time the transatlantic slave trade started happening. Americans really gotta make everything about them huh?
Stop being so US centric.

The first traces of Anthropology we got are from German Renaissance which dates XIV-XV century.
Slavery and slave trade (non-cross-atlantic one) is thousands of years old.


The reality is, that Rachel Dolezal, can take off the tanning. She can go back to having her naturally straight hair. If she ever felt like "living as black woman" ever got to hard, she could stop whenever she wants. Black people can't do that. That's the difference.
Skin color, no (M.J. doesn't apply apparently) but hair, while time consuming, I guess, not a problem at all: