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Online Pass/PSN Pass is the biggest scam of current-gen gaming

gblues

Banned
Project Ten Dollar. Online Pass. PSN Pass. It goes by a multitude of names, but a ripoff by any other name is still a ripoff. This abomination is absolutely nothing more than a cash grab by people who think they are entitled to more than the $60 MSRP their games sell for. The companies defend it by arguing that the upkeep of online features costs money, and that since second-hand sales don't go back to the publisher, they should be able to charge people with used copies to use online services. This seems reasonable on its surface, but it is based on the assumption that the sale of a used copy increases their costs.

That claim is pure, 100% grade-A bullshit.

Let N be the set of the copies of a particular title that are in the hands of customers (i.e. it doesn't include copies sitting in a warehouse, in the pre-owned bin, or in the garbage). The cardinality of N is the total number of elements in N, denoted |N|. A used copy shall be a copy that is no longer in possession of the original purchaser, but is still being played. Thus, N contains both new and used copies. Finally, let's define c as the cost per copy for online services. That is, the total cost for a particular title is c * |N|.

Do the costs for supporting a game increase with used game sales? Let's consider a game that sells 100,000 copies. So |N| = 100,000. After a month or so, 10% of them trade the game in to GameStop, and these copies are resold. In other words, 10,000 copies leave N and re-enter N as used copies. Since used copies are a subset of new copies by definition, a used sale will never increase the size of N past the highest selling point of the game. In this scenario, no matter how many times a used copy changes hands, |N| will never be larger than 100,000 unless someone buys the 100,001th copy new.

With Online Pass/PSN Pass, EA and Sony want you to accept that a used copy costs them more than a used copy. The truth is that a used copy doesn't cost the publisher any more than if the original owner had kept the copy for a longer amount of time. Put another way, the costs incurred for any given copy are accounted for in the initial sale, regardless of how many times that copy changes hands. EA/Sony's claim of "increased costs" is unsupported.

Just say no to Online Pass or PSN Pass.
 

zedge

Member
Yea, I really hate this shit. Sucks for renting or buying used games which is likely why they are doing this.
 

Shambles

Member
IsntChrisL said:
The whole generation is full of "scams."

Pretty much. That's what pushed me back into PC gaming where I can at least have the choice to support developers who don't pull douche maneuvers like this.
 
I am ok with these passes once there limited to online stuff. Pubs have server running costs and what not.


But once they this new copy code stuff spreads to single player games then I might be a little pissed.
 

Shurs

Member
If they assume a natural drop off in online activity from the people who buy the games new, then there would be increased online activity by the people who bought the game used.

I know I'm not explaining this well, but I'm watching TV while I type this.
 

Skel1ingt0n

I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
I agree, it's a total scam. But I suck it up because I want to play the games ... though I often/usually wait for a $60 game to drop to sub $40 before I actually pick it up.

And don't even get me started on DLC. I can't believe we've gotten to the point of LITERALLY having all the DLC cost more than the actual game within six months of release. Pathetic. A total, unabashed cash grab.
 

Yagharek

Member
You have my axe, and sympathy for taking the same maths course that I once did. Most of it went over my head when it got down to Aleph-0 and proofs and whatnot.

As for online pass I have stopped buying any game that supports it, and am not missing out on anything. There is always going to be a viable alternative to a game with it, and in many cases a superior option.

If publishers wish to drive away customers, that's their choice, but my choice will be to look elsewhere for entertainment.

I'm personally interested in whether UC3 ends up having a PSN Pass. I loved the first two but I can see myself skipping 3 if it sinks to the same level of idiocy that EA has begun this past year or two.
 
funkystudent said:
I am ok with these passes once there limited to online stuff. Pubs have server running costs and what not.


But once they this new copy code stuff spreads to single player games then I might be a little pissed.
Rage has something like this preventing people from accessing sewer levels scattered throughout the world. It's begun.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
RandomVince said:
You have my axe, and sympathy for taking the same maths course that I once did. Most of it went over my head when it got down to Aleph-0 and proofs and whatnot.

As for online pass I have stopped buying any game that supports it, and am not missing out on anything. There is always going to be a viable alternative to a game with it, and in many cases a superior option.

If publishers wish to drive away customers, that's their choice, but my choice will be to look elsewhere for entertainment.

I'm personally interested in whether UC3 ends up having a PSN Pass. I loved the first two but I can see myself skipping 3 if it sinks to the same level of idiocy that EA has begun this past year or two.
It does: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-10-03-online-pass-confirmed-for-uncharted-3
 

extralite

Member
gblues said:
Since used copies are a subset of new copies by definition, a used sale will never increase the size of N past the highest selling point of the game.
But games become boring and people stop playing them, at which point less server work is needed. Used games bring new yet unbored people to the table keeping server cost high.

Look at the full picture.
 

Kyoufu

Member
Not as bad as pre-order "bonuses".

Pre-order bonuses are the biggest scam because developers just take out content and make it look like a "bonus".

Such bullshit. Fuck you current and future generations.
 

Skel1ingt0n

I can't *believe* these lazy developers keep making file sizes so damn large. Btw, how does technology work?
Shurs said:
If they assume a natural drop off in online activity from the people who buy the games new, then there would be increased online activity by the people who bought the game used.

I know I'm not explaining this well, but I'm watching TV while I type this.

But that shouldn't matter, because the new purchaser is entitled to use that whenever they want.

It's safe to assume that in the midst of a natural disaster, you won't get cell service because everyone will be using their cell at once... there's an assumption people don't all use their phone at once. But I bet you'd still be pretty damn ticked, and that's far from fair.

If there was a bank rush, I bet you'd be pretty ticked if you couldn't get your money.
 
I have a split view on it. It's really irritating to think about someone like Activision trying to eek another dollar out from me.

On the other hand, I bought Odin Sphere for $10. I really enjoyed it, and I wouldn't have minded paying $10 to the developer to ensure they get my financial support in some way.
 

Aaron

Member
At first I didn't care since I almost always buy new (and cheap), but the hassle of all the codes is a bummer. It's got to be a really good game for me to look past the pass.
 

jackdoe

Member
Online Pass doesn't really bother me as I buy games new. The other trends this generation, pre-order DLC, DLC that unlocks content already on the disc, overpriced map packs, and an overabundance of map packs honestly bother me more.
 

TONX

Distinguished Air Superiority
I'm more inclined to buy an online pass game used because it's downright insulting to charge an extra 10 dollars. Why create walls? Keep it simple stupid.
 
Next-gen will be worse. I'm pretty confident that there will be an online connection requirement for most console games because online connectivity where everything is connected is going to be one of the big draws. Every game will have online integration in some way.
 
Online pass costs sales for me.

When I'm on the fence about a game (Mortal Kombat), it having an online pass pushes me to the "Guess I'll never play it" side.

That means that, even if I did get it used, they lose out on all the DLC I might have purchased that I can't buy used.
 

Lunar15

Member
In my experience, most businesses will try to cut costs before raising prices in order to maximize profits. In GENERAL, most sane companies do not just wake up and say "man I'd love to piss off existing and potential customers today".

I'm not a fan of the online pass either, however, while they may say it's to cover additional server costs, I think it's mainly just to prevent the attractiveness of used games.
 

DMeisterJ

Banned
Agreed with the OP, but doesn't stop me from buying games that have them since I buy new anyway. And not buying games that have them would seriously lower the amount of games I could purchase.
 

DR2K

Banned
It doesn't bother me. Most used copies that I've bought have an unused online code. Plus the used copy is usually cheaper because of the online pass. So it ends up working in your favor if you're thrifty enough.
 

Kintaro

Worships the porcelain goddess
I used to rage about this, but there's no point. PC gaming has been doing this for years and years. Like console games this generation, publishers are finally catching up and copying that too.

Just learn to buy cheaper because it is not going away any time soon. Then, like PC gamers, you too can look back on the "good old days." lol

I do find it hilarious that the OP chooses this to bitch about in the era where you guys gladly pay to play online (Xbox Live).
 

Lunar15

Member
upJTboogie said:
Yeah this generation has been absolutely terrible with these kind of things, XBL, pre order bonuses, on disc DLC...

While it's true that we should disagree with these things, I've been pretty happy overall with gaming this generation. I think companies can only get away with those kinds of cheap methods in the short run, not the long run. If people really start to dislike on disk DLC, then companies will begin to tout that they don't have it. That's the way this kind of stuff works.
 
I'd have no problem with online pass PROVIDED the money was directed to the maintenance of dedicated servers. It's not, so they can fuck off and I'll do my MP gaming on PC.
 
I actually don't care about Online Passes very much. I mostly buy games new anyways and play very little multiplayer, so it has no effect on me.
 

Shurs

Member
Skel1ingt0n said:
But that shouldn't matter, because the new purchaser is entitled to use that whenever they want.

It's safe to assume that in the midst of a natural disaster, you won't get cell service because everyone will be using their cell at once... there's an assumption people don't all use their phone at once. But I bet you'd still be pretty damn ticked, and that's far from fair.

If there was a bank rush, I bet you'd be pretty ticked if you couldn't get your money.

We are entitled, but it would be impractical and, frankly, stupid for a company to assume that someone is going to be playing a game online the same amount of time six months after purchase that they were playing it initially.

I don't think it's unreasonable for a company to want a "taste" when someone is using their product.

I get the angle the OP is going for, and looking at it purely as a consumer, I wholeheartedly agree; but as someone who cares about health of the game industry, I don't mind companies supplementing their income this way. I've gotten a lot more mileage out of games this generation than any other due in large part to their online components. If this is what it takes to help out companies then I'm all for it. Then again, I always try and buy new, so it doesn't really affect me.
 

jackdoe

Member
Now that I think about it, MS is probably the only publisher that won't jump aboard the online pass thing (as they have Gold).
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
MrDenny said:
Really? Does that mean if I play online, my brother cant play online unless he pays 10$?
I believe so.

I avoided making a thread since I thought it was known, but if it's not, someone should feel free.

It's only 1-2 day old news.
 

Emitan

Member
It's really annoying for me having to type in some 500 character password on a shitty software keyboard just to get stuff I paid for. It's even worse on the 360 because I never have my 360 connected to the internet which means I have to plug it in just for unlocking content.
 

Persona7

Banned
MrDenny said:
Really? Does that mean if I play online, my brother cant play online unless he pays 10$?
If you guys play on the same PS3 then you both have access to the content.

Or at least it works for SOCOM 4 and Dead Space 2.
 

Wario64

works for Gamestop (lol)
MrDenny said:
Really? Does that mean if I play online, my brother cant play online unless he pays 10$?

I think the pass is good for the whole console, so other PSN accounts would work too
 
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