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The Last of Us Remake's $70 price tag is getting some serious pushback lately, but these two games are starting to piss me off.

Just tried to buy MLB The Show 22 after seeing the Xbox $29.99 promotion, but the promotion is only on Xbox and Switch. The fucking PS5 version is still $70!! I get that MLB is publishing the game on Xbox, but come the fuck on. This is a PLAYSTATION IP. At least match the price drop if you arent willing to make it available for 'free' on your $120 a year service.

Not to be outdone by Jimbo, in a year where Xbox has very little exclusives, MS chose not to make Forza Hot Wheel's expansion free on Gamepass. This is probably their biggest exclusive of the year, and it's not on gamepass. I paid $1 for 3 months and still feel ripped off. I didnt even think that was possible.

My question to gaf is 'Does #PriceGate sound good?'. Should we go with #GreedGate? Should Sony change their motto to #4TheXboxNintendoPCGamers?
What does DLC for FH5 has to do with a full-priced game on another console?

Its like you have to throw some shade on Xbox when what you really want to go at is Sony ridiculous pricing of their games. Then just say so - no need to bring anyone else into this.
 

Banjo64

Member
My ps5 is my exclusive box cause I know deals and good will is rare in he sony ecosystem.

You say that but IMO Sony and Microsoft are both on a pendulum when it comes down to good will.

Currently the pendulums are close to meeting in the middle as Sony have introduced their £83 tier which includes Valhalla, Returnal, Spider-Man, DeS, GoW, Uncharted. Not a good time for MS to start cheaping out on their Game Pass offerings.
 

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
Somebody thought the FH5 expansion pack which millions paid £40 for before release of the game was going to be free on Gamepass, desperate concern trolling.
 

RespawnX

Member
In most cases, Microsoft DLCs are chargeable. Hivebusters was an exception here? However, the base games are always included in GamePass. A good strategy in my opinion. This gives you the option of buying only the DLCs. If you absolutely want to "own" the base game as well, you can buy it 1-2 years after launch for a fraction of the price. This makes the "complete purchase" cheaper. On the other hand, of course, you have your subscription fees.
 

Chukhopops

Member
Somebody thought the FH5 expansion pack which millions paid £40 for before release of the game was going to be free on Gamepass, desperate concern trolling.
#concerngate #gamepassnotcheapass #cheapgamersriseup
You say that but IMO Sony and Microsoft are both on a pendulum when it comes down to good will.

Currently the pendulums are close to meeting in the middle as Sony have introduced their £83 tier which includes Valhalla, Returnal, Spider-Man, DeS, GoW, Uncharted. Not a good time for MS to start cheaping out on their Game Pass offerings.
They are doing the same thing they always did since adding day 1 games. You’re free to not buy optional content, what happened to all the arguments about value being relative to how much enjoyment you get out of it?
 

ZywyPL

Banned
Sony's strayegy for this gen is 70$ for everything - AA like R&C, indie like Returnal, cross-gens, remakes, remasters, I thought it was pretty transparent?

This is what happens when you support, defend and advocate for multi-billion companies whenever they're trying to pull off some shady/greedy practices. Remember all those 40$ PS4 "remasters" where the only different vs PS3 was the resolution?

That was the first step, people showed Sony they can milk them so damn easily, so now they're taking it a step further, and I'm 100% confident this will work as a charm because at the end of the day most folks will just squeeze their teeth and lay down those 70$.

Complaining on the internet doesn't work when the profit charts in Ryan's excel sheet add up.

Not to be outdone by Jimbo, in a year where Xbox has very little exclusives, MS chose not to make Forza Hot Wheel's expansion free on Gamepass. This is probably their biggest exclusive of the year, and it's not on gamepass. I paid $1 for 3 months and still feel ripped off. I didnt even think that was possible.

This is what people like me have been saying all along regarding GP - unlike movie and music subscription services, video games have that additional added revenue source. The game has been exposed to millions of people via GP, some decided to buy it, some not, but now yhey have this huge userbase that's most likely gonna get the DLC, because they got the game itself for free.
 
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Bojanglez

The Amiga Brotherhood
The Last of Us Remake's $70 price tag is getting some serious pushback lately, but these two games are starting to piss me off.

Just tried to buy MLB The Show 22 after seeing the Xbox $29.99 promotion, but the promotion is only on Xbox and Switch. The fucking PS5 version is still $70!! I get that MLB is publishing the game on Xbox, but come the fuck on. This is a PLAYSTATION IP. At least match the price drop if you arent willing to make it available for 'free' on your $120 a year service.

Not to be outdone by Jimbo, in a year where Xbox has very little exclusives, MS chose not to make Forza Hot Wheel's expansion free on Gamepass. This is probably their biggest exclusive of the year, and it's not on gamepass. I paid $1 for 3 months and still feel ripped off. I didnt even think that was possible.

My question to gaf is 'Does #PriceGate sound good?'. Should we go with #GreedGate? Should Sony change their motto to #4TheXboxNintendoPCGamers?
No offence, but you sound a little bit entitled. Why should MS give you all expansions for free, especially on a license based DLC where presumably Hot Wheels will want some money? This is the Game Pass model and it will continue to be so, they are effectively making more first party GaaS products and up-selling DLC. If you don't think the expansion is worth it, then don't buy it.
 

Banjo64

Member
#concerngate #gamepassnotcheapass #cheapgamersriseup

They are doing the same thing they always did since adding day 1 games. You’re free to not buy optional content, what happened to all the arguments about value being relative to how much enjoyment you get out of it?
I’m criticising their offerings in general this year. Not the lack of DLC (I paid for the FH5 expansion at the games initial launch).

Not a good time to cheap out on Game Pass. They’ve got Origins, Sony got Valhalla. They’ve got no first party releasing on Game Pass this year and they really should be offering more (third party wise) than what they have to compensate that.
 

Mr Reasonable

Completely Unreasonable
Just buy the Show on Xbox/Switch. Sony don't want to reduce the price? Their call. Don't want to pay $70? Your call.

DLC is always paid for on gamepass. Still the best deal in gaming™

$70 For a remake seems high? Don't buy it, it'll get reduced later.

Problems solved.
 
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Robb

Gold Member
Yeah it kinda sucks DLC is never included in GamePass. I would love to try the Hot Wheels expansion.

I kinda get the strategy, but it also feels a bit weird because I don’t feel like it’d be worth it to purchase DLC for a game that I don’t even own in the first place..
 

Ozriel

Member
Agreed.

I was utterly shocked that Hot Wheels wasn't free on GamePass...like WTF?

Is GamePass just some sort of bait to sell DLC? Is this a hint at the future? Just make shorter games and then upsell a ton of DLC.

Calling Forza Horizon 5 a ‘short game’ 😂

I think you bring great points. This likely points to their strategy not being profitable.

It also points towards a future where only the 'base' game is included in the subscription, and a whole bunch of paid-DLC, microtransactions, cosmetics, etc, are thrown on top.

These corporations, with time, will figure out the minimum amount of 'game content" needs to be included in the subscription plan to keep people subscribed.

This year's been pretty dry as far as their first party releases, so we're already seeing them test the waters.

‘Test the waters’ by continuing a policy of not including DLC in Gamepass…similar to what they did for FH4? 🤡

Why would they sell a Premium edition SKU if they were going to give out future expansions on Gamepass?

Gamepass has been a thing for quite a while now. And so far, we’ve seen no trends towards the base content reduction you’re scaremongering about. And since these games are NOT exclusive to subscription services (they sell millions at retail or Steam), it’s unlikely they’d be altered to the extent where the base game content would not be good value standalone.
 

CeeJay

Member
Agreed.

I was utterly shocked that Hot Wheels wasn't free on GamePass...like WTF?

Is GamePass just some sort of bait to sell DLC? Is this a hint at the future? Just make shorter games and then upsell a ton of DLC.
You're kind of right but no need to fake outrage about it. Gamepass was created at a time when AAA gaming was starting to move towards F2P with games such as Fortnite and Apex and I think the climate at the time is key to understanding what Gamepass really is. Gamepass is a genius level business model when you dissect it. It allows developers to follow the F2P model while also getting some revenue up front. It monetises those customers who would otherwise play F2P without ever spending a penny as well as harpooning the whales. Add in a good selection of indie games and you have a service that works for both developers and customers, no one feels hard done by.
 
Its really tough to try and argue with this dumb shit. The whole discussion is entered at such a low effort entitled dumb level that no matter what you say its only going to be a pain in the ass to try and make sense of it.

The Forza Horizon games have always had DLC. The main games have been day 1 on game pass since FH4 with the premium add-on being the best way to get everything in one purchase. Around 1 million players pre-ordered this and probably more did after release. Why would they make this free now when millions already paid for it?

Next time there is a Forza Horizon game try and buy the premium add-on - its around 35 bucks and gets you all DLC and VIP and cars in the future. Its pretty cheap for whats in there. In the mean time the main games are freakin huge so just settle with those if youre too cheap to want to pay for the extras.

As for MLB - well buy it on Xbox then if its cheaper there?
 

Ozriel

Member
You're kind of right but no need to fake outrage about it. Gamepass was created at a time when AAA gaming was starting to move towards F2P with games such as Fortnite and Apex and I think the climate at the time is key to understanding what Gamepass really is. Gamepass is a genius level business model when you dissect it. It allows developers to follow the F2P model while also getting some revenue up front. It monetises those customers who would otherwise play F2P without ever spending a penny as well as harpooning the whales. Add in a good selection of indie games and you have a service that works for both developers and customers, no one feels hard done by.

Not sure how you think this is valid when Microsoft’s own first party devs aren’t following the F2P model.

Paid games can have post launch monetization without being F2P or akin to the F2P model.
 

GametimeUK

Member
I think DLC not being included in gamepass is fine. In Forza Horizons case the base game is as full of a game as you can ask for. The DLC is definitely additional content.

I'd be more concerned if gamepass hit the point where the base game was part of the subscription, but the game relied heavily on DLC for the experience (a bit like F2P).
 

CeeJay

Member
Not sure how you think this is valid when Microsoft’s own first party devs aren’t following the F2P model.

Paid games can have post launch monetization without being F2P or akin to the F2P model.
You want some validation? Sea of thieves certainly feels like a F2P game to me from one of Microsoft's top 4 first parties. Remember also that games take a long time to develop whereas a service like Gamepass can be stood up pretty quickly in comparison for a company with Microsoft's expertise and assets so there is going to be some lag. Look at the naming of Halo Infinite, a single offering in the franchise that will last the entire generation without getting itterative sequels. Same with the upcoming Forza Motorsport, ditching the numbered bi yearly releases. That's another two of Microsoft's biggest 4 first parties (prior to the acquisitions and expansions). The 4th, Coalition have yet to show what they are working on since Gears 5. Again, you have to consider the lag of development time, Gears 5 was nearly finished when Gamepass launched. All in all I would say that Microsoft's first party are in line with a switch to more of a F2P model.
 
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Chukhopops

Member
I’m criticising their offerings in general this year. Not the lack of DLC (I paid for the FH5 expansion at the games initial launch).

Not a good time to cheap out on Game Pass. They’ve got Origins, Sony got Valhalla. They’ve got no first party releasing on Game Pass this year and they really should be offering more (third party wise) than what they have to compensate that.
Maybe you don’t but isn’t that what OP is about?

Whether you prefer PS+ or GP is a matter of preference, it’s not like PS+ will have Day 1 first party games to offer this year aside from Stray.

Gears 5 was nearly finished when Gamepass launched.
GamePass launched more than two full years before Gears 5, and only nine months after Gears 4 launched. Gears 5 wasn’t « nearly finished » in June 2017.

People always forget GP is over 5 years old now and none of the apocalyptic prophecies about it have happened so far.
 

Ozriel

Member
You want some validation? Sea of thieves certainly feels like a F2P game to me from one of Microsoft's top 4 first parties. Remember also that games take a long time to develop whereas a service like Gamepass can be stood up pretty quickly in comparison for a company with Microsoft's expertise and assets so there is going to be some lag. Look at the naming of Halo Infinite, a single offering in the franchise that will last the entire generation without getting itterative sequels. Same with the upcoming Forza Motorsport, ditching the numbered bi yearly releases. That's another two of Microsoft's biggest 4 first parties (prior to the acquisitions and expansions). The 4th, Coalition have yet to show what they are working on since Gears 5. Again, you have to consider the lag of development time, Gears 5 was nearly finished when Gamepass launched. All in all I would say that Microsoft's first party are in line with a switch to more of a F2P model.


Sea of Thieves was released in 2018. Weird to infer that 2019 Gears 5 wasn’t impacted by Gamepass because of the stage of development, but you cite an earlier game as an example. Also worth noting that ALL of the post launch expansions for Sea of Thieves have been free on ALL platforms, including Steam. Additional revenue comes from cosmetic MTX.

You seem to conflate GaaS with F2P. They are entirely different things. There’s also no trend towards an F2P model. Forza Horizon 5 for example has a similar structure and monetization strategy as 2018’s Forza Horizon 4. Meaning Gamepass has no impact at all.

Aside the GaaS games, you’re getting a lot of non-GaaS first party games like Redfall, Avowed, Fable among others. Fable was greenlit post-Gamepass…and yet it’s billed as a standard SP game.

To repeat, let’s not mix up GaaS with F2P.
 

xrnzaaas

Member
I don't have a problem with DLC's not being on Game Pass. It's still a great deal and if you love the base game you won't have an issue with paying for them or maybe even you'll gladly pick up the complete edition.
 

Three

Member
You forget that this is a business so good luck with that hashtag

June NPD
4) MLB the show

PS June NPD
2) MLB the show

Xbox June NPD
...

MLB didnt chart on xbox. They went the gamepass route and they use that to make you buy shit like the FH5 DLC at $20 because they're not selling the games.
 
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I'm not buying the Hot Wheels expansion. It feels wrong to release all of your games day one on Gamepass, then charge for the expansions.
Thats what the future will bring, as someone sayd before, they wil bring games to GP and than make DLC what you can buy, what could be included in the game on GP in the first place. MS has to make money from GP and this will be the way they will try to do it.
 

Banjo64

Member
Maybe you don’t but isn’t that what OP is about?

Whether you prefer PS+ or GP is a matter of preference, it’s not like PS+ will have Day 1 first party games to offer this year aside from Stray.
I was simply responding to a poster who said Sony aren’t offering good deals to the consumer or something along those lines (y)
 

Three

Member
You want some validation? Sea of thieves certainly feels like a F2P game to me from one of Microsoft's top 4 first parties. Remember also that games take a long time to develop whereas a service like Gamepass can be stood up pretty quickly in comparison for a company with Microsoft's expertise and assets so there is going to be some lag. Look at the naming of Halo Infinite, a single offering in the franchise that will last the entire generation without getting itterative sequels. Same with the upcoming Forza Motorsport, ditching the numbered bi yearly releases. That's another two of Microsoft's biggest 4 first parties (prior to the acquisitions and expansions). The 4th, Coalition have yet to show what they are working on since Gears 5. Again, you have to consider the lag of development time, Gears 5 was nearly finished when Gamepass launched. All in all I would say that Microsoft's first party are in line with a switch to more of a F2P model.
Gears 5 already has f2p type microtransactions in it.

https://www.eurogamer.net/gears-5-boss-on-microtransaction-furore-were-learning-as-we-go
 
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Ozriel

Member
You forget that this is a business so good luck with that hashtag

June NPD
4) MLB the show

PS June NPD
2) MLB the show

Xbox June NPD
...

MLB didnt chart on xbox. They went the gamepass route and they use that to make you buy shit like the FH5 DLC at $20 because they're not selling the games.

Forza Horizon 5 sold very well at retail and Steam, though. So that’s your theory on shaky grounds.
 

killatopak

Gold Member
Some of these sounds like expecting so much when it's not really their job to do so.

Especially that FH dlc comment. You're getting so much for the service and still expect more for free? If you really like what they've done, the least you could do is support them.
 

CeeJay

Member
Sea of Thieves was released in 2018. Weird to infer that 2019 Gears 5 wasn’t impacted by Gamepass because of the stage of development, but you cite an earlier game as an example. Also worth noting that ALL of the post launch expansions for Sea of Thieves have been free on ALL platforms, including Steam. Additional revenue comes from cosmetic MTX.

You seem to conflate GaaS with F2P. They are entirely different things. There’s also no trend towards an F2P model. Forza Horizon 5 for example has a similar structure and monetization strategy as 2018’s Forza Horizon 4. Meaning Gamepass has no impact at all.

Aside the GaaS games, you’re getting a lot of non-GaaS first party games like Redfall, Avowed, Fable among others. Fable was greenlit post-Gamepass…and yet it’s billed as a standard SP game.

To repeat, let’s not mix up GaaS with F2P.
F2P done right rely on paid cosmetics (either by MTs or battle pass), new game content is available to everyone. GAAS tends to put that new content behind a paywall. F2P Sounds like how sea of thieves works to me. Games take ages to make and Rares recent stuff have been with things that are at the forefront of where Xbox are going such as live avatars and Kinect sports so it's not inconceivable that they knew about the Gamepass concept early. Redfall, Avowed were in development pre acqusition. No one knows anything about Fable yet.
 

Ozriel

Member
Thats what the future will bring, as someone sayd before, they wil bring games to GP and than make DLC what you can buy, what could be included in the game on GP in the first place.

Paid expansions were a thing in Forza Horizon 3 that launched in 2016, before Gamepass. Heck, they were a thing in Forza Horizon 2. FH2’s Storm island expansion cost $19.99

So Forza Horizon 5 follows the exact same monetization route - and same DLC price - as FH2 to FH4, but apparently it’s a new development due to Gamepass? 😀

The future is already programmed to bring single player, non-GaaS games like Avowed, Starfield and Fable to Gamepass. So not sure if serious.

MS has to make money from GP and this will be the way they will try to do it.

you imagine people pay for their GP subscriptions with bananas?
 

Three

Member
Forza Horizon 5 sold very well at retail and Steam, though. So that’s your theory on shaky grounds.
Top selling games NPD last 12 months June 2021 to June 2022. Where did FH5 go then?

11Elden RingBandai Namco Entertainment
22Call of Duty: VanguardActivision Blizzard (Corp)
33Madden NFL 22Electronic Arts
44Pokemon: Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl*Nintendo
55LEGO Star Wars: The Skywalker SagaWarner Bros. Interactive
66Battlefield 2042Electronic Arts
77FIFA 22Electronic Arts
88Far Cry 6Ubisoft
99Pokémon Legends: Arceus*Nintendo
1011Horizon II: Forbidden West

TOP selling games 2022 so far:

11Elden RingBandai Namco Entertainment
22LEGO Star Wars: The Skywalker SagaWarner Bros. Interactive
33Pokémon Legends: Arceus*Nintendo
44Horizon II: Forbidden WestSony (Corp)
55MLB: The Show 22^Multiple Video Game Manufacturers
66Call of Duty: VanguardActivision Blizzard (Corp)
77Gran Turismo 7Sony (Corp)
88Kirby and the Forgotten Land*Nintendo
99Mario Kart 8*Nintendo
1010Madden NFL 22Electronic Arts
1113Nintendo Switch Sports*Nintendo
1212MinecraftMultiple Video Game Manufacturers
1311FIFA 22Electronic Arts
1414Marvel’s Spider-Man: Miles MoralesSony (Corp)
1515Monster Hunter: RiseCapcom USA
1617Animal Crossing: New Horizons*Nintendo
1719Super Smash Bros. Ultimate*Nintendo
1818Mario Party Superstars*Pokémon Legends: Arceus*
1920Call of Duty: Black Ops: Cold WarActivision Blizzard (Corp)
2016Dying Light 2: Stay Human*Square Enix Inc (Corp)

The game is doing ok I'm sure but it's not on the charts and MS rely on sub/mtx money, not sales.
 

Ozriel

Member
F2P done right rely on paid cosmetics (either by MTs or battle pass), new game content is available to everyone. GAAS tends to put that new content behind a paywall. F2P Sounds like how sea of thieves works to me. Games take ages to make and Rares recent stuff have been with things that are at the forefront of where Xbox are going such as live avatars and Kinect sports so it's not inconceivable that they knew about the Gamepass concept early. Redfall, Avowed were in development pre acqusition. No one knows anything about Fable yet.

Again, sounds like you don’t know what GaaS means. Please do some learning. F2P games are usually also a subset of GaaS games.

Might as well claim TLOU and Uncharted 4 were ‘F2P model games’, since they had microtransactions.
 

Roxkis_ii

Gold Member
Microsoft is going to get their money one way or another. Better DLC than microtranscations.
 
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CeeJay

Member
Again, sounds like you don’t know what GaaS means. Please do some learning. F2P games are usually also a subset of GaaS games.

Might as well claim TLOU and Uncharted 4 were ‘F2P model games’, since they had microtransactions.
I think we disagree but that's OK, it's not like these two models are rigid.
 

MikeM

Member
If I had to take either the game or DLC for free, i’ll always pick the game. DLC is optional and MS has no requirement (nor should they) to add DLC to GP.

As for MLB pricing between PS and Xbox- i’d argue its because sales are just flat out better on PS (I have no sales figures- assumption). Why discount something that sells well? This is business.
 
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As for MLB pricing between PS and Xbox- i’d argue its because sales are just flat out better on PS. Why discount something that sells well? This is business.
As someone who has all 3 consoles, this is not what I've seen in the PS5 gen at all. Even on 3rd party stuff.

PS4 sales were pretty insane though back in the day.
 

Hendrick's

Member
How dare a business try to make money. Shame on them. Fortunately, you have the right to decide where to spend or not spend your money. But hey, let's get the government involved so they can decide for us.
 

Ozriel

Member
Top selling games NPD last 12 months June 2021 to June 2022. Where did FH5 go then?

11Elden RingBandai Namco Entertainment
22Call of Duty: VanguardActivision Blizzard (Corp)
33Madden NFL 22Electronic Arts
44Pokemon: Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl*Nintendo
55LEGO Star Wars: The Skywalker SagaWarner Bros. Interactive
66Battlefield 2042Electronic Arts
77FIFA 22Electronic Arts
88Far Cry 6Ubisoft
99Pokémon Legends: Arceus*Nintendo
1011Horizon II: Forbidden West

TOP selling games 2022 so far:

11Elden RingBandai Namco Entertainment
22LEGO Star Wars: The Skywalker SagaWarner Bros. Interactive
33Pokémon Legends: Arceus*Nintendo
44Horizon II: Forbidden WestSony (Corp)
55MLB: The Show 22^Multiple Video Game Manufacturers
66Call of Duty: VanguardActivision Blizzard (Corp)
77Gran Turismo 7Sony (Corp)
88Kirby and the Forgotten Land*Nintendo
99Mario Kart 8*Nintendo
1010Madden NFL 22Electronic Arts
1113Nintendo Switch Sports*Nintendo
1212MinecraftMultiple Video Game Manufacturers
1311FIFA 22Electronic Arts
1414Marvel’s Spider-Man: Miles MoralesSony (Corp)
1515Monster Hunter: RiseCapcom USA
1617Animal Crossing: New Horizons*Nintendo
1719Super Smash Bros. Ultimate*Nintendo
1818Mario Party Superstars*Pokémon Legends: Arceus*
1920Call of Duty: Black Ops: Cold WarActivision Blizzard (Corp)
2016Dying Light 2: Stay Human*Square Enix Inc (Corp)

The game is doing ok I'm sure but it's not on the charts and MS rely on sub/mtx money, not sales.

over 1 million confirmed purchases of the pre-launch Premium SKU. Pre-launch! Also 4th on November NPD charts, only behind huge games like Pokémon, COD and BF2042.

According to Mat Piscella



FH5 had better US launch sales numbers than any Forza game ever…despite being on Gamepass.

You’re often wrong, but never so much as this time 😀
 
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