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ORION removed from Steam via (likely not incorrect) Activision DMCA takedown request

jambo

Member
Sep 23, 2009
18,787
1
0
This is shitty but isn't ORION that atrociously bad dinosaur game that keeps getting re-named in the hopes of accruing a few more sales?
The name seemed familiar, but I couldn't place it.

All coming back to me now. I think this is the 3rd time they've renamed their game and re-released it. And again with the stolen assets!
 

CertifiedFP

Member
Mar 25, 2013
5,385
1
470
This is shitty but isn't ORION that atrociously bad dinosaur game that keeps getting re-named in the hopes of accruing a few more sales?
Yup. I remember before it went retail and was still a shitty Half Life 2 mod, the project lead was a regular on Facepunch who was little more than some Ideas Guy looking for us to make it for him. It looked pathetic then and it looks pathetic now.

I recall back in 2007 or so (Yep, this saga's been going on for about a decade now. About as long as the Epic of CWC, if not longer) he made mention of how he used to be a console-only gamer who played RARE's titles and such (Some Turok and Halo too I think) and never once considered PC gaming until his big brother showed him Quake 3 or something in 2002 while back from college for a few days and the mods he saw inspired him to make his own game WITH DINOSAURS AND HOOKERS, AND IT'D BE COOL.

To this day I still publicly proclaim on Facepunch (and here sometimes) that his big brother made a huge mistake getting that kid into PC gaming. If not for that Steam wouldn't have to be graced with ORION's holy presence.

The name seemed familiar, but I couldn't place it.

All coming back to me now. I think this is the 3rd time they've renamed their game and re-released it. And again with the stolen assets!
Fifth time, I believe actually. They mustn't let The WarZ (or whatever the fuck it's been renamed to now) catch up with them!
 

ProfessorLobo

Banned
Nov 26, 2007
4,480
65
1,065
I don't care about the quality of Orion or the closeness of the guns, this is fucking nonsense. Have you seen the stuff that Gameloft gets away with?

Similarity between 3d models shouldn't be enough to pull games out of app stores without warning. I wish Valve could get sued.
 

Doop

Member
Jan 3, 2015
615
0
0
I don't care about the quality of Orion or the closeness of the guns, this is fucking nonsense. Have you seen the stuff that Gameloft gets away with?

Similarity between 3d models shouldn't be enough to pull games out of app stores without warning. I wish Valve could get sued.
I think Valve would be in more legal trouble if they didn't pull the game.
 

Alo0oy

Banned
Oct 12, 2014
7,806
0
0
Bahrain
I don't care about the quality of Orion or the closeness of the guns, this is fucking nonsense. Have you seen the stuff that Gameloft gets away with?

Similarity between 3d models shouldn't be enough to pull games out of app stores without warning. I wish Valve could get sued.
How would you feel if someone started profiting off of your hard work?
 

OscarStyle

Neo Member
Mar 14, 2016
23
0
0
I don't care about the quality of Orion or the closeness of the guns, this is fucking nonsense. Have you seen the stuff that Gameloft gets away with?

Similarity between 3d models shouldn't be enough to pull games out of app stores without warning. I wish Valve could get sued.
I DON'T CARE IF THEY LIED AND STOLE ASSETS! HAVE YOU SEEN GAMELOFT?
lol

probably a bad thing either way, does gameloft lift assets directly from other games?
 
Jul 30, 2015
6,720
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I don't care about the quality of Orion or the closeness of the guns, this is fucking nonsense. Have you seen the stuff that Gameloft gets away with?

Similarity between 3d models shouldn't be enough to pull games out of app stores without warning. I wish Valve could get sued.
it's not that there's a similarity between assessts, it's that they seem to be directly stolen and then slightly changed to try and obsfucate it a little.

Nothing about this is something that should be defended or protected
 

Kalentan

Member
Mar 29, 2015
9,507
0
0
I DON'T CARE IF THEY LIED AND STOLE ASSETS! HAVE YOU SEEN GAMELOFT?
lol

probably a bad thing either way, does gameloft lift assets directly from other games?
Gameloft does make "clones" that are a bit too close but as far as I know, all their assets are still their owns.
 
May 10, 2013
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Where are the developers based? China?

The game just looks like destiny.. :-/

It's a shame, cos clearly they know how to make games. why waste that talent ripping off other games?
 

CertifiedFP

Member
Mar 25, 2013
5,385
1
470
It's a shame, cos clearly they know how to make games. why waste that talent ripping off other games?
As someone who's been watching the shitshow that has been the ORION series since the shitty Half Life 2 mod a decade ago...

No. No they don't know how to make games.
 

Glass Shark

Member
Feb 24, 2013
9,942
2
385
The Orion devs are clearly ripping off assets and designs, but I feel like a total takedown of the game shouldn't be the way this goes. Activision should reach out privately and request the assets be changed or removed before taking such a drastic step. They're certainly entitled to do it the way they did, but it's a crappy move.
 

Mohasus

Member
Jul 23, 2012
5,120
2
420
Where are the developers based? China?

The game just looks like destiny.. :-/

It's a shame, cos clearly they know how to make games. why waste that talent ripping off other games?
Copying something is way, way easier than creating something.
 
May 10, 2013
3,760
42
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As someone who's been watching the shitshow that has been the ORION series since the shitty Half Life 2 mod a decade ago...

No. No they don't know how to make games.
by "know how to make games" i meant they are able to program etc.

Or did you mean that too? lol
 

Dipper145

Member
Dec 17, 2008
1,667
0
0
Is creating designs similar to other designs in this context illegal in some way, I'm actually genuinely curious.

At what point does an asset become stolen based on a similarity scale? They obviously had to actually model and texture these things themselves, while it looks like they used other peoples work as references does that make it actionable through a copyrigtht law?
 
Jul 30, 2015
6,720
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The Orion devs are clearly ripping off assets and designs, but I feel like a total takedown of the game shouldn't be the way this goes. Activision should reach out privately and request the assets be changed or removed before taking such a drastic step. They're certainly entitled to do it the way they did, but it's a crappy move.
If they leave the game up while trying to work
something out they will continue to profit while using Activision's (and as this thread has shown, a lot of other people's) work. I don't see anything crappy about them requesting it be taken down at all.
 

Harlequin

Member
Dec 4, 2012
3,335
0
0
They seem to have ripped off some of the design but it doesn't look like they actually stole assets (at least not in the case of these guns). The models are clearly different, it's "just" a few pieces of the design that look extremely similar to the COD guns (admittedly too similar for it to be a coincidence). Not sure whether the similarities are enough for Activision to issue a takedown notice, though, that'd be a question for a lawyer I think.
 

TheGamingBox

Banned
Jan 7, 2015
3,156
0
0
The Orion devs are clearly ripping off assets and designs, but I feel like a total takedown of the game shouldn't be the way this goes. Activision should reach out privately and request the assets be changed or removed before taking such a drastic step. They're certainly entitled to do it the way they did, but it's a crappy move.
well we dont know if they didnt do that first
 

TheGamingBox

Banned
Jan 7, 2015
3,156
0
0
They seem to have ripped off some o the design but it doesn't look like they actually stole assets (at least not in the case of these guns). Th models are clearly different, it's "just" a few pieces of the design that look extremely similar to the COD guns (admittedly too similar for it to be a coincidence). Not sure whether the similarities are enough for Activision to issue a takedown notice, though, that'd be a question for a lawyer I think.
here's another comparison
 

FiraB

Banned
Jul 26, 2013
1,735
0
0
New Zealand
Is creating designs similar to other designs in this context illegal in some way, I'm actually genuinely curious.

At what point does an asset become stolen based on a similarity scale? They obviously had to actually model and texture these things themselves, while it looks like they used other peoples work as references does that make it actionable through a copyrigtht law?
Actually they can shortcut both by ripping them out of other games, Asian developers do it all the time, specially on mobile. All you need to do is change the asset by 10% in Western markets to get around copyright but since assets aren't technically part of copyright how they managed to get the game pulled is more interesting.
 

jediyoshi

Member
Oct 10, 2009
30,024
6
895
They seem to have ripped off some of the design but it doesn't look like they actually stole assets (at least not in the case of these guns). The models are clearly different, it's "just" a few pieces of the design that look extremely similar to the COD guns (admittedly too similar for it to be a coincidence). Not sure whether the similarities are enough for Activision to issue a takedown notice, though, that'd be a question for a lawyer I think.
So to clarify, you're saying it's only theft if the entirety of the model's mesh and texture is copied and not just a third of a mesh?
 

Harlequin

Member
Dec 4, 2012
3,335
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0
here's another comparison
I'm going off of the first-person screenshots and in those you can see some clear differences. Like the small rectangles sticking out the side of the barrel on one of the guns or the ring up-top being smaller on the Orion gun than it is on the COD gun, etc. It's possible, of course, that they used the COD asset as a base and then modified it but there definitely are differences in the mesh.
 

Harlequin

Member
Dec 4, 2012
3,335
0
0
So to clarify, you're saying it's only theft if the entirety of the model's mesh and texture is copied and not just a third of a mesh?
Uhm, that's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying that I don't think they stole the actual mesh but rather ripped off parts of the design (meaning they created their own models but used the COD models as "references") and whether it's enough of a rip-off for them to get into legal trouble is sth I can't assess. Like I've said, though, it is possible that they did steal the mesh from COD and merely changed it.
 

CertifiedFP

Member
Mar 25, 2013
5,385
1
470
by "know how to make games" i meant they are able to program etc.

Or did you mean that too? lol
That too.

Real talk - I did some level design stuff for them when they were initially working on taking the original mod retail. Project management was a fucking disaster while I was working for them and I never got paid properly. Project wasn't looking like something I could be proud of on my resume either - With a winning combination like that I told whoever the fuck his name was who was in charge (forgot it a long time ago. Or suppressed his name, IDK, bad memories associated with him.) that I was quitting and fucked off to find better work in better paying industries with more actual professionals. This was before we had massively successful indie titles like Minecraft, or the Kickstarter boom, mind. Maybe then I would have stayed and found another project, but eh...

In the end, most of what little I did for them ended up not making it in anyway, so w/e. Still a bit sour over the amount of bull going on inside Spiral. The guy in charge is a fucking Ideas Guy through and through. I don't know how anyone is interested in working with or partnering with them to this day. It's a total shitshow.

So perhaps I have a little vendetta against Spiral and Orion, but in the end, I'm the one who's right.
 

ThreePiMatt

Member
Jan 6, 2013
6,989
3
400
That too.

Real talk - I did some level design stuff for them when they were initially working on taking the original mod retail. Project management was a fucking disaster while I was working for them and I never got paid properly. Project wasn't looking like something I could be proud of on my resume either - With a winning combination like that I told whoever the fuck his name was who was in charge (forgot it a long time ago. Or suppressed his name, IDK, bad memories associated with him.) that I was quitting and fucked off to find better work in better paying industries with more actual professionals. This was before we had massively successful indie titles like Minecraft, or the Kickstarter boom, mind. Maybe then I would have stayed and found another project, but eh...

In the end, most of what little I did for them ended up not making it in anyway, so w/e. Still a bit sour over the amount of bull going on inside Spiral. The guy in charge is a fucking Ideas Guy through and through. I don't know how anyone is interested in working with or partnering with them to this day. It's a total shitshow.

So perhaps I have a little vendetta against Spiral and Orion, but in the end, I'm the one who's right.
I don't think your experience is unique either. I'm pretty sure I've heard other stories of modelers and stuff not getting paid either. And the guy running it was the kind of person who would seek out people badmouthing the game on message boards and would start arguments with them.

edit - Here's a post from 2011 from another forum on this mess of a game.

http://www.dayonepatch.com/index.php?/topic/7474-mr-david-prassel-what-the-fuck-orion-preludeinterest/#comment-165969
 

epmode

Member
Jun 7, 2004
28,470
0
0
This game has been a disaster for years now. One of the longest running scams around.
 

CertifiedFP

Member
Mar 25, 2013
5,385
1
470
I don't think your experience is unique either. I'm pretty sure I've heard other stories of modelers and stuff not getting paid either. And the guy running it was the kind of person who would seek out people badmouthing the game on message boards and would start arguments with them.

edit - Here's a post from 2011 from another forum on this mess of a game.

http://www.dayonepatch.com/index.php?/topic/7474-mr-david-prassel-what-the-fuck-orion-preludeinterest/#comment-165969
Oh yeah, here's another story from someone.

https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/g2sol/david_prassel_creator_of_orion_prelude_receives/

Now I fucking remember his name. David Prassel. A name I did well to forget.

Guy's a thief, ideas-guy, liar, and a massive titwank to top it off.
 

Mozendo

Member
Oct 5, 2012
4,060
1
0
25
Mount Vernon, WA
Where are the developers based? China?

The game just looks like destiny.. :-/

It's a shame, cos clearly they know how to make games. why waste that talent ripping off other games?
They have no talent, their games are garbage, and they only got a dedicated fanbase because they reduced the cost of Orion Dino Horde to $1
 

Metfanant

Member
Jun 23, 2010
4,346
0
0
Uhm, that's not at all what I'm saying. I'm saying that I don't think they stole the actual mesh but rather ripped off parts of the design (meaning they created their own models but used the COD models as "references") and whether it's enough of a rip-off for them to get into legal trouble is sth I can't assess. Like I've said, though, it is possible that they did steal the mesh from COD and merely changed it.
That red dot sight is not a "reference" at all...that's a steaight up copy...
 

CertifiedFP

Member
Mar 25, 2013
5,385
1
470
Also, wow, they renamed themselves to Trek Industries while they were at it.

If they want to run from their past so badly, they should just make a new damned IP already that doesn't have all this baggage associated with it.
 
Oct 26, 2009
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My issue with Orion Prelude and Orion (which was previously called Guardians of Orion) is that the game is a glorified Horde mode and that is all it is right now. They are promising a campaign now which I think is funny in light of all of this.
 

Mechazawa

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May 31, 2011
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545