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ORION removed from Steam via (likely not incorrect) Activision DMCA takedown request

SmokedMeat

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
Katori said:
These are homages, and not ripped from anything. The only one that's too close for comfort is the Rylo Ken one, but Disney can't go after every Boba Fett ripoff.
Click to expand...

Homages my ass.

Looks like these guys like ripping off the work of others. Siding with Activision on this.
 
R

runnin_blue

Banned
Geek said:
05wXy6q.jpg


JFC guys, this is 15 seconds into their latest video
Click to expand...
images


I don't see it.

Lol.
 
LordRaptor

LordRaptor

Member
Deadbeat said:
Theres nothing else to talk about until the next spray can bursts in the bonfire. Developer has a history of stealing shit, stole shit from the wrong person this time around. Theres also people playing devils advocate because an internet discussion isnt complete without that.
Click to expand...

It's not a question of playing devils advocate - if the model(s?) in question aren't directly stolen, the DMCA is entirely inappropriate to be used.

Like, go in front of a judge and get a C&D. That's what should be used in this sort of dispute. Not the DMCA.

e:
Because frankly, even thieving scumbags get to be treated lawfully.
 
T

theultimo

Member
He unbanned himself this morning, and a RESOLUTION (i.e. ITS NOT MU FAULT)

http://steamcommunity.com/app/407840/discussions/0/351660338709276017
A resolution has finally been reached. Everything remains true, including:
01. I received the DMCA request after its removal from Steam with no warning/contact from either Valve/Steam or any developer associated with Call of Duty nor anyone from Activision.

02. I never was provided specific examples of assets, or screenshots of what offended them - nor given the chance to rectify or remove any offensive content prior to having our game removed from sale. This took 72 hours, of which I was both unable to externally resolve the situation for fans/product, nor investigate internally.

03. We assumed which pieces of content based on what they self-labeled from their Call of Duty games as well as community-provided assets:
http://i.imgur.com/8Qx1NI2.png
http://i.imgur.com/IjS7dfO.png
http://i.imgur.com/ZQeBNGs.png

04. I was informed by Steam that according to their policy, Activision had 10 business days (until mid-July) to act or do anything. If Steam didn't receive a copy of a legal complaint within 10 business days, then our game would be re-instated. We immediately offered to remove ANY offensive content (it wasn't specified) and this was NOT accepted.


( THE LARGER PICTURE )
Not providing any specific information, both in the DMCA that brought the game down as well as in multiple instances of correspondence between both parties - is prevented any of us from finding a solution or to learn more about what was going on. This costed massive damages. All that being said, that is simply a minor inconvenience in the grand scheme of things given what I learned yesterday directly from Activision.

I am now in complete compliance with their complaint and I am equally as mad. While I don't agree simply based on the evidence that you are all going on about, relating to our Auto Shotgun - I do see similarities in the sights/bolts, etc. I don't believe it was important enough to remedy immediately, affecting production on all ends to simply replace that one weapon when we could just do it later on. We acted under the pretense this was the only infraction/issue. This was not the case. Regardless, I understand that was a unique perspective and that many in the community and even on the team agreed for it to go. In the end, it WAS removed from the game and will be made public in the upcoming Version 1.5.5.

Last night I received evidence directly from Activision regarding assets not even mentioned in public yet. Upon receiving this it became immediately apparent that blatant rips were made. While the artist offered to remake any assets at no cost, he has now been fired immediately upon learning this. This will slightly affect production and I will get into that later.


( WE ARE REMOTE )
What most users don't understand is that we are a remote developer, we don't work side-by-side. Hiring and full-time development happens online in different time zones and different hours of the day. This can result in situations like this and we do are best to avoid them.

What most users also don't understand is that I personally don't build these weapons. I am not a 3D artist, at all. I am responsible for anything from the business, to making the maps/worlds, and making sure the product comes together. What I am responsible for is hiring the individual responsible. And this is what concerns me the most: I cannot guarantee this will be prevented in the future. I don't get to play other games, I am working on this full-time. I would never have the chance at cross-checking content across every game nor could I be expected to. This is why we are open to fan submissions or even developer ones like this. If there is valid proof, we will remove it immediately.

There weren't and usually aren't any tell-signs, especially with situations like this where he had a great, valid portfolio (establishment proof). He completed a variety of valid, great assets (physical work proof) and responded appropriately when presented with the information and offering to remedy it at no cost (personality). It would get through the hiring process any time and the ONLY way I can see preventing it is setting up a physical studio. But even that is not true as it's fully possible to do this in a studio all-the-same.

The problem is I can't stomach that simply to be able to have security on people and ensuring they are working when the majority of everyone here DOES incredible work and we are more than capable of being able to be remotely, in our home countries near our friends and families - or doing things like we want on my end which is travel the world and really take in the areas we are building.


( FAN SERVICE )
I also understand that outside users with no relationship to the game or having played it could be confused by our level of fan service. This IS different as I do instruct artists to not only create unique things like custom sets of armors, but to also do their own takes on other properties either they, we, or you guys love. They are vastly different than the source material, but you are intended to know what it's paying tribute to. In addition to this, I personally pay for custom helmets to be produced by artists FOR the developers to use as their own personal developer helmet, never to be sold. It's a gift/thanks of sorts and allows us to have a fun unique experience. This includes helmets like Fettuccine (my 2014 helmet), Kilo Reno (my current helmet), Ganga (Programmers helmet), and Star King (Animator's helmet).

I understand that simply seeing that in image form, from the outside, would be confusing. It never came from a malicious place, and I only was attempting to do something cool for the people I work with as well as cater to what you all loved prior to and after Orion. This won't be happening anymore as it's just added risk for what is ultimately no reward. All content from this point going forward will be unique - as unique as you can get when doing hundreds to thousands of sci fi armor/helmet pieces.


( BLAST FROM THE PAST )
With this unfortunate event, a lot of the insane stuff of the past started to appear again and it's not fair to those users involved as those events were not malicious as this one was, nor were the freelancers behind it. I've seen comments about Natural Selection, Primal Carnage, Counter-Strike and Achievement Images, all of which have been commented on in the past and only one I am directly responsible for.

@NATURAL SELECTION 2 ARMOR
This related to a development-only, pre-alpha game build. We were flying to conferences like Gamescom (Germany) and Eurogamer (London) to show to publishers and press. At the time, like any developer, you use whatever content and assets you have access to in order to mock up the experience. We had a freelancer at the time, Daniel Doerksen who was simply a fan of Unknown Worlds/Natural Selection - never officially worked for them and simply made himself personal portfolio piece based on their art. At this time we needed a unit exactly the same (a dispenser that grants ammo) and used what he had legally available to do so. It was caught in a few frames in a trailer and people (somehow) assumed it was straight from the Natural Selection 2 game, a title that wasn't even released to the public at that time. The model was subbed out for the official release, as always intended.

@PRIMAL CARNAGE ARTWORK
Another incident involved a freelancing concept artist. Back in the day we had an additional folder on our shared Dropbox called "Mood Art". This would contain anything that was either very "Orionish" or something I wanted to get added to the game and consisted of Orion-related fan art, things we'd find online. Said artist utilized a piece of artwork from that folder and used it as a base layer, proportionally, to do a full new drawing on top of. When submitted to me, I didn't know this at the time. However Ashton, the former head of Primal contacted me right after we made the news post and we took it down immediately and apologized right then and I also personally apologized in person at a conference. They did not accept it. Fun fact, years later the two Dinosaur 3D Artists, Tim M and Eugen T, would join and create the Dinosaurs for both Prelude and most of Guardians of Orion.

@COUNTER-STRIKE AUDIO
Either stock or mod counter-strike audio was used in the game on accident and immediately removed. Can't even remember what sound it was, I think the mp5.

@ACHIEVEMENT IMAGES
This is the one I am guilty of. We are a small team. We don't have a dedicated Graphic Designer, Sound Designer or User Interface Artist. We want those spots filled, just haven't found anyone proper to fill them. So when it comes time to do things like UI it's just me and the Programmer and whatever we can hack/mock up. This is my ♥♥♥♥♥♥ image design, of which I used google images for things we were referencing, such as Turok. I understand looking back this was wrong and once it was brought up to us it was immediately removed. It actually worked out as the people who ended up doing the Achievement art found out about us from that situation. They make Race The Sun on Steam. They helped in a time of need, they are great workers and it's a great game and you should support them.


( WE FIRED PEOPLE )
This is the name of the game. We work remotely and independently, so sometimes talent doesn't work out. However it wasn't purely related to strangers and anyone that steals or tries to steal hardware, money or do other shady things doesn't have a place at Trek. More on that here:
http://artistryingames.com/spiraling-control-incredible-journey-spiral-game-studios/


( OUR APPROACH )
So where does this leave us? Well the team is extremely upset, I feel like an idiot with what was presented to me. That's just how you go about it though, you treat your devs like children and have their back until proven otherwise. He is from all the way around the world in Vietnam and so communication was delayed and then ultimately not receiving any at all from his end. In the end, he let everyone here down and we simply just need to get to work and focus on the game.

So what can I do to assume what is ultimately my responsibility?
1. We are removing ANY content that Activision finds offensive, immediately.
2. I am removing ALL DevHelmets from the game. This includes Fettuccine which we gave away to all users for free.
3. Other artists within the team have volunteered to remedy any assets required to restore the game to its quickest state as fast as possible.
4. We are shutting down social media. I don't find the results from when it's positive large enough, and when it gets bad it's just horrible. We really need to bunker down to catch up on what was removed and we just want to focus on the game and will continue to do so and post updates/interactions to orion-project.net OR are YouTube which will remain operational:

As always if you want to connect or if you have anything to suggest/report you can always contact us directly:
connect@trek-industries.com
Click to expand...
 
T

theultimo

Member
And the indieGoGo campaign is proved by himself to be a sham

https://www.facebook.com/trekindustries/posts/1174014199296868

They won't allow us to remove our Indiegogo campaign once it's live. So instead we've simply removed ANY perk from being available (AKA you can't donate/support the campaign anymore) and will give out the existing contributions/rewards that already exist to this date today and tomorrow.
We only set up this campaign as a backup measure to protect the company and ensure we were able to receive profits during the most important time of the year before being made aware of the severity of the issue at hand - but a time that usually grants a budget allowing us to co very 12 or more months of production.
We appreciate any support that we received but all we want to do is simply work on the game. Now that the issue is resolved and the game will be patched very soon and on sale shortly after we can finally do so.
Click to expand...
 
T

Trace

Banned
Last night I received evidence directly from Activision regarding assets not even mentioned in public yet. Upon receiving this it became immediately apparent that blatant rips were made. While the artist offered to remake any assets at no cost, he has now been fired immediately upon learning this. This will slightly affect production and I will get into that later.
Click to expand...

So much for the defense force.
 
K

KDR_11k

Member
Too many people still believe that as long as something isn't a rip but just a very very accurate remake it's not covered by copyright. That's not how copyright works, copyright has existed in an age when copies were still made by hand. You cannot simply draw Mickey Mouse and because you didn't use the original cels there's nothing Disney can do.
 
LordRaptor

LordRaptor

Member
KDR_11k said:
Too many people still believe that as long as something isn't a rip but just a very very accurate remake it's not covered by copyright. That's not how copyright works, copyright has existed in an age when copies were still made by hand. You cannot simply draw Mickey Mouse and because you didn't use the original cels there's nothing Disney can do.
Click to expand...

They can issue a cease & desist and take it to a judge for infringement if infrigement persists.
They can't issue a DMCA claim.
 
N

nOoblet16

Member
This is how you fuck up a game, it had people's interest and it probably would turn out to be a decent game, but now everyone will berate them for plagiarism.
 
T

TheVoidDragon

Member
So does the "assets not even mentioned in public yet" mean there are even more things in the game that are stolen which no one has noticed yet?
 
K

KoopaTheCasual

Junior Member
Welp... At least he finally came clean I guess?

I know this is a funny suggestion, given the history of the developer. But I feel like his only real option to salvage anything is to rename the studios, and start a new IP again. Square 1 and all that jazz.
 
T

thehillissilent

Member
KoopaTheCasual said:
Welp... At least he finally came clean I guess?

I know this is a funny suggestion, given the history of the developer. But I feel like his only real option to salvage anything is to rename the studios, and start a new IP again. Square 1 and all that jazz.
Click to expand...

As long as his name Is David Prassel (I have no idea why he changed his steam name to David James), his history will always follow him.
 
Y

Yukinari

Member
I just watched TB cover this topic and i completely forget what this game was or who these people were cause they changed the name of their game 3 times. Theyre trying so hard to hide their bullshit its hilarious.
 
Mengy

Mengy

wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
TheVoidDragon said:
So does the "assets not even mentioned in public yet" mean there are even more things in the game that are stolen which no one has noticed yet?
Click to expand...

Yes. And coming from this company, it's not too surprising either.
 
T

TheVoidDragon

Member
Mengy said:
Yes. And coming from this company, it's not too surprising either.
Click to expand...

It seems there have been so many problems with it now, i have no idea how it could all be accidental or just a mistake. Once i could perhaps understand as just accident, but after similar things happening at least 5 time that we know of, that's far too much.
 
H

hesido

Member
His final answer is what his first action should have been.

The first communication should be something along the lines of:
"We regret that sales of the game has been shut down due to this request which puts a financial burden on us and we're investigating whether the DMCA takedown is an error or a valid claim. We work with fan created assets, freelancers and non-studio based staff that work overseas. The DMCA take down doesn't mention assets specifically, so we contacted Activision for this."

And afterwards, his final communication seems to be OK. But the things done in between really hurt their image.

They did too many things wrong in haste, frustrated by being shut down during sales time.
 
P

Paganmoon

Member
rainking187 said:
The game is back up on Steam now.
Click to expand...

And with the extra publicity, and now that everything is "all ok", they're going to probably get a boost in sales. Couldn't have happened to a least deserving dev...


Edit: lo and behold, just cause of its "popularity" it just popped up on my discovery list.
 
T

thehillissilent

Member
Coppanuva said:
I mean I guess now people can play the game without having to give them money...

Also this is after he gave away keys of the game to people who pledged to his IGG.
Click to expand...

The game currently has 164,495 ± 10,460 owners. You can tell they are desperate now after a failed kickstarter. They were going to abandon the game initially when it was in the $9-$15 range. Then they dropped the price to $1 and now it's f2p. If you bought the game previously, you will get a special helmet.

I wonder how much money they will make from micro-transactions. The game itself isn't nowhere near as bad as Orion Prelude was. However, I really question if this move will be profitable for them in the long run.
 
C

Canklestank

Neo Member
Man, I haven't seen a meltdown like this since the COLECO Chameleon...


Hopefully this guy has finally learned his lesson:
Lol it's just fanservice! XD
 
A

Acinixys

Member
ProfessorLobo said:
I don't care about the quality of Orion or the closeness of the guns, this is fucking nonsense. Have you seen the stuff that Gameloft gets away with?

Similarity between 3d models shouldn't be enough to pull games out of app stores without warning. I wish Valve could get sued.
Click to expand...

Who is Valve more worried about?

Activision, one of the biggest publishers in the world with a massive reach, who has many games on Steam, and who Valve probably considers a partner

OR

Some idiot Dev who steals assets and then cries innocence
 
S

ScientificPizza

Banned
This whole thing has moved so fast it's honestly difficult to keep up

Anyway even if you were on the Orion devs side initially the just messy and immature way they handled this has to have changed your mind. It's shocking that the game made it back onto steam at all. I wouldn't want that shit on my storefront. Projects like this really make me wish for stronger curation.
 
A

Aselith

Member
Why is there Orion published by Trek Industries and then Orion Prelude published by Trek Industries, Inc?

Why would Valve allow this...
 
A

antonz

Member
Aselith said:
Why is there Orion published by Trek Industries and then Orion Prelude published by Trek Industries, Inc?

Why would Valve allow this...
Click to expand...

Valve doesn't give a shit as long as they get their cut. really



Valve is not Gamings savior. Gabe is not some awesome Gaben out to save the world.

Valve does or allows a lot of shady and scummy shit and because the net worships them they get away with it.
 
A

Aselith

Member
antonz said:
Valve doesn't give a shit as long as they get their cut. really



Valve is not Gamings savior. Gabe is not some awesome Gaben out to save the world.

Valve does or allows a lot of shady and scummy shit and because the net worships them they get away with it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're the only one that sees it! No one ever calls out Valve for anything
 
E

Eila

Member
Aselith said:
Why is there Orion published by Trek Industries and then Orion Prelude published by Trek Industries, Inc?

Why would Valve allow this...
Click to expand...

What are you implying here? I don't believe this was done with maliciousness but rather a mistake. They just didn't put the exact same publisher name in the paperwork and that's how they ended up with 2 database entries.
Thankfully it's fixable, because for example NISA had the same problem until not long ago with some older games they published a few years back and now they're all under NIS America, Inc. Not sure if the fix was on Valve's or the publisher's side.
Square Enix has two entries as well. 1 2
 
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