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ORION removed from Steam via (likely not incorrect) Activision DMCA takedown request

GavinUK86

GavinUK86

Member
The free helmet is totally not a Boba Fett helmet guys. It's a complete coincidence.

87Ec1Y0.png


And I think they want people to know it's not their fault and everyone should boo Activision.

Tptg2Sm.png
 
C

Cmagus

Member
Way, way back when the original Orion project started as a small game, way before they decided to sell it I did a few models on the old game when I was looking to do a few things for my portfolio. Honestly very soon after, the project was a mess and it was starting to look really shady.

I didn't work with them for too long (less than a month) but left after they started putting assets from Halo in the game. At one point they had Warthogs from Halo in the game and some looked modified.I dont know what happened to the the old project after I left though and I don't remember much from it but it really wouldn't surprise me if there are stolen assets in there. I left not too long into it but I know some people had issues with the project as well and stolen assets. Last I remember the project got a small amount of funding from some company but I don't remember who it was.
 
C

CertifiedFP

Member
Cmagus said:
Way, way back when the original Orion project started as a small game, way before they decided to sell it I did a few models on the old game when I was looking to do a few things for my portfolio and honestly very soon after, the project was a mess and it was starting to look really shady.

I didn't work with them for too long (less than a month) but left after they started putting assets from Halo in the game. At one point they had Warthogs from Halo in the game and some looked modified.I dont know what happened to the the old project after I left though and I don't remember much from it but it really wouldn't surprise me if there are stolen assets in there. I left not too long into it but I know some people had issues with the project as well and stolen assets. Last I remember the project got a small amount of funding from some company but I don't remember who it was.
Click to expand...

Hohohohoh, yep, you were definitely there. I take it that it was still Orion: Source when you were there?

There were still a bunch of stolen Halo assets in place when I was working for Spiral. That was my first indicator that my tenure at Spiral wasn't something to put on my resume.
 
R

realwords

Member
GavinUK86 said:
The free helmet is totally not a Boba Fett helmet guys. It's a complete coincidence.

87Ec1Y0.png
Click to expand...

Well, the helmet is referred to as the "Fettucini" helmet in-game, so I assume it's a self-aware parody.

Shame, I kinda like ORION too. Hope it's back up on Steam soon. It's a good game.
 
T

thehillissilent

Member
Sou Da said:
Wasnt this game a wave based co-op wave based game? When the fuck did it turn into a Destiny ripoff? It even called them Guardians.

I can really see the idea guy shit in here.
Click to expand...

Yeah. At it's core, it still is a wave based co-op game like the previous games. However, now he wants to borrow from Star Citizen and Destiny.
 
S

Sou Da

Member
GavinUK86 said:
The free helmet is totally not a Boba Fett helmet guys. It's a complete coincidence.

87Ec1Y0.png


And I think they want people to know it's not their fault and everyone should boo Activision

Tptg2Sm.png
Click to expand...

Holy shit they're calling out Activision while simultaneously using a term they very clearly got from their game in the same title
 
C

CertifiedFP

Member
Sou Da said:
Wasnt this game a wave based co-op wave based game? When the fuck did it turn into a Destiny ripoff? It even called them Guardians.

I can really see the idea guy shit in here.
Click to expand...

ORION has been a whole bunch of different things over its existence. Was a Team Deathmatch game at one point which was barely more than a reskin of Half Life 2's multiplayer with some bells and whistles, then it was some incomplete singleplayer game that got pulled, then some coop horde-mode thing, and I don't know whatever it's become since then.

tl;dr absolutely no direction. They have no idea what they want to make it and it's constantly changing.

The entire thing was founded on the stupid idea of "We're going to make our own Sci-Fi FPS! With Blackack! And dinosaurs!" - It's as stupid as it sounds. It was an idea Prassel came up with when he was a preteen playing Turok or something, and he never let it go.

If I'm thinking correctly, DICE's running joke of dinosaurs in the last few Battlefield games is actually a mockery of ORION. Might be something else though, not entirely sure.
 
Stiler

Stiler

Member
I think there's some things that are homages (like the Boba Fett inspired helmet).

I mean look at games like League of Legends. They have many skins that are inspired by or homages to other things. Admiral Garen = Smoker from One Piece anime, Star Guardian Lux = Sailor Moon homage, King Rammus = Bowser from Mario.


Some things might be direct 1:1 copies , and I can see the issue with that, straight up stealing. However things that are changed or altered , that's a gray area.

I mean how many differences can you make of things like sights? Adding small things to it to make it look different not enough? What about basic iron sights? I've seen countless games with the same exact looking plain iron sights.
 
ElRenoRaven

ElRenoRaven

Gold Member
So yea just watched that video. You can see the shit clearly ripped from Halo, Destiny, COD, etc. It's clear as fucking day.
 
S

SmoothRunningGun

Member
drotahorror said:
Is this the same game as Orion Dino Beatdown or w/e it was called? That game has a very troubling history ranging from stolen assets, scummy devs all sorts of stuff. They changed the name of it a couple times not sure what it's called now but I assume it's called Orion: Prelude (which I bought regrettably on day 1 when it was called something else). One of the worst games ever made that I've played.
Click to expand...

I thought there was some past drama with this game.
 
S

stan423321

Member
Mechazawa said:
LIMBO-MIND.
Click to expand...

Low five, I guess. Have heard of the whole thing after it happened, but man, was it hilarious nevertheless... especially the part when someone suggested that some plagiarism is present in early Amiga or whatever trailer.

PsychoRaven said:
So yea just watched that video. You can see the shit clearly ripped from Halo, Destiny, COD, etc. It's clear as fucking day.
Click to expand...

Perhaps it is if you played them all. I think I touched CoD for a second, but I'm not even sure.
 
S

SneakyStephan

Banned
While the designs are obviously lifted, the models themselves are clearly not stolen as they are different.

If they stole assets from another game I'd understand but how is copying a design to make your own model dmca' able in a game?

Every single last AAA games has a ton of designs, elements, UI parts and mechanics copied directly from other games

no man's sky's UI is a clone of destiny's UI
many of dota 2s characters are copies of warcraft designs
master chief's helmet was a copy of doomguy...
the entire aesthetic and many of the designs from warcraft were lifted from warhammer
activision's baby call of duty started as a carbon copy of medal of honor after IW lost the rights to the IP when they left EA... Which makes this incredibly ironic

remember that screenshot from last gen that showed every fps of the time had the exact same red dot scope on the weapon (killzone 2, cod and a bunch of other games)


DMCAing design copying is a can of worms you don't want to open, gaming would be nowhere today if that was a thing.

Put your dislike for hacks like these orion devs aside to see the greater picture
 
A

Aselith

Member
SneakyStephan said:
While the designs are obviously lifted, the models themselves are clearly not stolen as they are different.

If they stole assets from another game I'd understand but how is copying a design to make your own model dmca' able in a game?

Every single last AAA games has a ton of designs, elements, UI parts and mechanics copied directly from other games

no man's sky's UI is a clone of destiny's UI
many of dota 2s characters are copies of warcraft designs
master chief's helmet was a copy of doomguy...
the entire aesthetic and many of the designs from warcraft were lifted from warhammer
activision's baby call of duty started as a carbon copy of medal of honor after IW lost the rights to the IP when they left EA... Which makes this incredibly ironic

remember that screenshot from last gen that showed every fps of the time had the exact same red dot scope on the weapon (killzone 2, cod and a bunch of other games)


DMCAing design copying is a can of worms you don't want to open, gaming would be nowhere today if that was a thing.

Put your dislike for hacks like these orion devs aside to see the greater picture
Click to expand...

You need to look at how the design elements are interacting for things like this

Looking at those helmets they are pretty different and recognizable as a helmet and that's about it

latest


Whereas the gun in question there are very clear direct design elements lifted wholesale including the hole that kind of jags as it moves along the rail going down the the straight hole done to 3 vertical indentations. The sight looks the same (not a big deal since it's a sight however there is the exact same bluish circular button at the other end. The rail is very clearly lifted if nothing else.

ZQeBNGs.png
 
Fall Into The GAF

Fall Into The GAF

Member
This is mind blowing. Reminds me back in 2008 with the controversy surrounding Limbo of the Lost taking assets and using them as pre-rendered backgrounds.
 
K

Katori

Member
I'm gonna go ahead and say that the models are not copied, as in actually ripped from the game. They may be close recreations, but I'd think after all their drama copying Halo and NS2 crap that they would learn not to straight-up rip them.

Also, I'm gonna state that I actually enjoyed my (short) time with ORION Prelude (which is not the same game, I think some people are making that mistake). It was a crazy mess of dinosaurs, vehicles, and mechanics I didn't understand. Their new game (which is what this takedown was aimed at) actually looks pretty cool as well, and I hope that they change the offending weapons and restart development/sale.
 
O

OldMuffin

Member
Why is this the first time I'm hearing about the shadyness of this company, was this never covered before by the press? If I knew I wouldn't have even dropped that dollar on the game, cause. Now I feel sick about this whole ordeal. The worst part is there's a significant amount of people that are defending this game in the YouTube comments.
 
D

Deadbeat

Banned
I havent read through the thread, but I remember them stealing Natural Selection 2 assets and using them in a trailer and screens. Dont know if this was brought up yet. You arent stealing stuff from a small indie dev this time around, you are stealing it from a big publisher. Enjoy the beating you deserve.

edit: seems the Natural Selection 2 thing was already covered. Good.
 
Q

Quadraphonic

Member
Fall Into The GAF said:
This is mind blowing. Reminds me back in 2008 with the controversy surrounding Limbo of the Lost taking assets and using them as pre-rendered backgrounds.
Click to expand...

Oh, fuck. I forgot about that.
http://lotl.wikia.com/wiki/Controversy

It became a game to find all the shit and where they got it from.
I love when this happens, because the dickheads that do this are the first to deny it and then throw their own employees under the bus rather than be responsible.
 
C

Cmagus

Member
CertifiedFP said:
Hohohohoh, yep, you were definitely there. I take it that it was still Orion: Source when you were there?

There were still a bunch of stolen Halo assets in place when I was working for Spiral. That was my first indicator that my tenure at Spiral wasn't something to put on my resume.
Click to expand...

Yeah I believe it was, I know there was only like 1-2 maps at the time and the one we were working on was a large open area with like 1-2 bases it was very basic at the time.
 
L

LelouchZero

Member
This is a real shame, I've been following the Orion project for years and had no idea that they allegedly stole assets from other games.
 
jediyoshi

jediyoshi

Member
SneakyStephan said:
While the designs are obviously lifted, the models themselves are clearly not stolen as they are different.

If they stole assets from another game I'd understand but how is copying a design to make your own model dmca' able in a game?
Click to expand...

Your question is entirely predicated on your assumed premise. No one is actually making an argument counter to your line of questioning so it's a moot point.

Let's try this the other way around because short of looking at wireframes, we're looking directly at a fairly clear view.

Mesh wise, what exactly do you see as different between these two models that wouldn't be explained by a shifted perspective or shader work?

3KRdAGs.png
 
D

Durante

Member
I don't like the DMCA, but this seems like a pretty clear case. You don't just randomly model the exact same futuristic weapon.
 
A

Atomski

Member
Makes me sad when I see shit like this. How do you have the talent to make games but not your own assets. Hire a damn artist..
 
S

Springfoot

Member
LOL, I like how they bothered to try and show how they weren't copying with their comparison images - only they were switching which weapons they were comparing in the two images.

Here's the actual part they stole from that COD gun.

bZI3dG0.jpg


And based on everything else I've seen here, fuck these guys. DCMA takedown was justified in this instance.

EDIT: Hadn't seen griffy's post above, but it's even more extensive.

-griffy- said:
Here, from Reddit via Jim Sterling retweet:

xpIy1W.png
Click to expand...
 
U

Unfriendly TimeTraveler

Member
Yep can't blame activision, too much shady stuff behind this game and those guns do look too much alike and doesn't help its from one of the most popular fps out there. cant steal assets and try to get away with it and play the victim at the same time.
 
C

Comfort Jones

Banned
Geek said:
05wXy6q.jpg


JFC guys, this is 15 seconds into their latest video
Click to expand...

I am legitimately unable to process the fact that this is a real thing. Like it's one thing to steal some random guns or w/e and think you won't get caught but...jesus fucking what?

Honestly I've felt weird using similar or the same building designs from other maps in my hl2 mod and that's just map editor brush work with the stock art ffs. Asset use though is just straight up stealing even if you are modifying it.

These devs should be embarrassed. I mean honestly if it was just two guns I could see some case being made for them but based on how much other nonsense is being posted to further condemn them, I say fuck em.
 
H

hesido

Member
-griffy- said:
Here, from Reddit via Jim Sterling retweet:
Click to expand...

Lol.. The gun is entirely made up of different guns. The amount of combinations should allow them a great deal of gun models, clever :p

Also, Jim Sterling is the king of asset re-use detective work, I guess!

Edit: This is not exactly asset re-use, but asset steal-use..

Edit2: I think programmers are probably working their asses off to make those games, as they probably cannot copy pasta game code. But their artists surely know their ways around pumping assets for the game.
 
D

DocSeuss

Member
CertifiedFP said:
If I'm thinking correctly, DICE's running joke of dinosaurs in the last few Battlefield games is actually a mockery of ORION. Might be something else though, not entirely sure.
Click to expand...

No.

Activision allegedly posted on 4chan ages ago asking what 4chan wanted from Call of Duty. 4chan responded with nothing but suggestions for more dinosaurs in the Call of Duty series.

Battlefield ran with it.
 
C

Catshade

Member
The devs put an "update" on Steam forum:

An additional update is available. For the record, I (-David) don't agree with this nor believe it's a good use of a small teams resources to immediately replace any asset.

I was just contacted by the artist responsible (he just woke up to all of this - Eastern part of the world) for the Automatic Shotgun (which is what appears most in fans-submitted comparisons) feels absolutely horrible and has contacted me to inform me that he would feel more comfortable in remaking said weapon regardless of what I do about Activision or how we proceed. So no matter what happens going forward, that weapon will be visually different.

He feels terrible that his piece of art resulted in these events that have affected so many things and he has started production on it this evening to remedy anything he can do directly.

What Activision is claiming isn't a valid or legal use of DMCA. If they were alleging that we had actually RIPPED the Black Ops 3 weapons FROM their game and used them exactly - their shipped meshes, their shipped textures - that is a DMCA case. And the fact that they made an artist feel this way when it's ALL they do is absolute crap.

What they are alleging is that our very own, separately created content is "too visually" or "artistically similar". That is *NOT* what the DMCA covers. That is a form of copyright and IP infringement dispute. Their lawyers know this, but filed this anyways.

We will be seeking resolution for all damages wrongly inflicted towards us FROM Activision via this malicious and overly aggressive tactic.

Our desire to remove said content is purely for our own benefit. We are a small indie team, any minute the game is not for sale during the biggest event is a stake to the heart. Us willing to remove any offensive content and to get it back for sale is to protect our selves, our company and our IP.

As always, we regularly interact and involve our community. If anyone ever has a problem we always invite you to contact us directly at:
connect@trek-industries.com
Click to expand...
 
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