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[darscot]

ahahaha did I read this right? You're calling Rowlin the greatest writer of our era?

Maybe should say most successful.

 

[lopaz]

I read a book once that predated Harry Potter that had some poor orphan kid who went to live with his uncle and aunt who spoiled their fat son whilst neglecting the orphan, and he found out he was a wizard and went into the forest to fuck about with faries or something... and guess what it's called:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0141302860/?tag=neogaf0e-20 OH NOEZ

yeah platform whatever-the-fuck, just like HP

 

[madara]

QFT. This is what has always annoyed me about Rowlings after series talks

And at what point would it have served the novel at all? Dumbledore great love was long long dead. She was getting enough crap about her religions beliefs but who says she didnt add in some hints? You do know what editors are? There is a special world where bridges are sold if folks really think something as huge as HP series didnt have alot folks involved with their own opinions and demands as well.
Try again, sounds like a jealous author that didnt get his full 15 mins. With huge sales always comes this crap, same thing happened with Terry Brooks, all the elistest came out but it will never change the fact that Terry and Del Rey shaped the fantasy market that is today, and he continues to sell extremely well. Stuff done in Elfstones of Shannara and Wishsong of Shannara have never been done since in fantasy.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

I read a book once that predated Harry Potter that had some poor orphan kid who went to live with his uncle and aunt who spoiled their fat son whilst neglecting the orphan, and he found out he was a wizard and went into the forest to fuck about with faries or something... and guess what it's called:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0141302860/?tag=neogaf0e-20 OH NOEZ

yeah platform whatever-the-fuck, just like HP

Whoa, it just gets worse.

 

[lopaz]

Whoa, it just gets worse.

holy fuck both of the platforms are at King's Cross

She MUST'VE read this

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

OSC seems to make the one-two mistake of misunderstanding (or just misrepresenting) JKR's motives and then slamming her for it. I think it may be a classic case of projection. From what I've heard about JKR, she doesn't seem anywhere near as insecure or pretentious and OSC makes her out to be. She does seem to treat her work a little preciously, I suppose, but so does OSC when he brings up Ender in comparison with Potter.

 

[darscot]

holy fuck both of the platforms are at King's Cross

She MUST'VE read this

Neither of them invited King's Cross.

 

[lopaz]

Neither of them invited King's Cross.

wha? Did you mean invented? I know that, but both have magical platforms to another world at King's Cross. Is that based on some local folklore? Otherwise she prolly lifted it. Not that it's that important, I'm just jerking myself off in celebration of my amazing detective work

 

[darscot]

wha? Did you mean invented? I know that, but both have magical platforms to another world at King's Cross. Is that based on some local folklore? Otherwise she prolly lifted it. Not that it's that important, I'm just jerking myself off in celebration of my amazing detective work

King's Cross

Thats about as relevant a clue as two books having Grand Central Station.

 

[bengraven]

Stuff done in Elfstones of Shannara and Wishsong of Shannara have never been done since in fantasy.

Thank Christ for that. The books were shite. :lol

The point of fiction shouldn't just be doing something different, but doing something different and good. 99% of fantasy these days is pure garbage. As a fantasy fan, it's hard to find anything post 1960 that's actually worth reading more than three or four chapters of.

 

[lopaz]

King's Cross

Thats about as relevant a clue as two books having Grand Central Station.

Yes, thankyou, I am aware King's Cross is a real station. However, it is not a magical doorway to wizardland, yet it is so in both these books, which also share many other striking similarities.

 

[QVT]

An interesting read but in the end sounds like some bitter old bugger ranting. Everyone loves to jump on her now. I feel its within her rights to protect her interests she doesn't want some online hack trying to get rich off her. She had no complains about his website but now that he is trying to get a book published she is saying no this is mine. Once you at the top everyone wants to bring you down. One only needs to check who sells the most books to see who the greatest writer of the era is.

best selling books in 1922

1. If Winter Comes, A.S.M. Hutchinson

2. The Sheik, Edith M. Hull

3. Gentle Julia, Booth Tarkington

4. The Head of the House of Coombe, Frances Hodgson Burnett

5. Simon Called Peter, Robert Keable

6. The Breaking Point, Mary Roberts Rinehart

7. This Freedom, A.S.M. Hutchinson

8. Maria Chapdelaine, Louis Hémon

9. To the Last Man, Zane Grey

10. Babbitt, Sinclair Lewis (tie)

10. Helen of the Old House, Harold Bell Wright (tie)

you're so wrong

 

[darscot]

best selling books in 1922

Ok maybe era was the wrong term after all she wasn't the best in 1922.

 

[captive]

Awesome I can actually pick out the Potter fans in this thread with pinpoint accuracy.:lol

Pretty much. In high school we were forced to read LOTR(best forced reading ever) and someone asked why we weren't reading harry potter, to which the AP English teacher replied "because Harry Potter isn't high school level reading."

 

[bengraven]

best selling books in 1922


you're so wrong

Pwned.

We are talking about how fantastic Zane Gray novels are, right? :lol

 

[Drinky Crow]

I know a lot of "Litterateurs" that actually do like her works, if that counts for anything. Yeah, her work isn't as original as his work, but he is extremely harsh and condescending in his criticism.

fuck, i'm a lit snob, and i like quite a bit of derivative pulp fantasy and sci-fi regardless. that said, i don't believe the pulp i read is accomplished or worthy of entry into the western canon, or even to be discussed in any capacity other than ZOMG DID U READ THE BIT WHERE BROZNOX TURNED OUT TO BE THE DEMON WIZARD ALL ALONG OMG OMG. it's just fun. a couple of the harry potter novels are just that -- fun. they tweak the nostalgia and world-building glands, and they aren't piers anthony-grade drek. that said, if someone tries to put hp on a pedestal, i too will muster all the condescension and indignation i can, because WTF FRUITS IT'S FLUFFY LAZYTIME READING ABOUT WIZARDS AND CASTLES. don't conflate personal delight in something with any greater notions of quality, especially considering the long-established rules of criticism. there's material worthy of such debates, and then there 're retards who think the script for xenogears should be on college reading lists.

 

[QVT]

Ok maybe era was the wrong term after all she wasn't the best in 1922.

this was more of a "if you look at what novels were published in 1922 and compare them to that, wtf" try guessing some yourself, it's great fun!

Spoiler

cities of the plain, beautiful and the damned, jacob's room, petersberg, and of course, ulysses

same as any year.

 

[Flynn]

People who think that JK has a leg to stand on in her suit are sad.

I usually hate OSC for being a bigot. I'm assuming this essay is a clever attempt at appealing to the fair use crowd. I'll bite. A little.

 

[SupahBlah]

Well whether or not it can or should legally be challenged, I think it's out of order to bring out a book that basically just rearranges information from another. People will buy that getting no new information. Perhaps it's legally ok, but it's just preying on unsuspecting customers imo.

Someone gave me an old Lord of the Rings 'lexicon' a few years back, its as thick if not thicker than the paperback versions of LOTR. They've been doing these books for years.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Pretty much. In high school we were forced to read LOTR(best forced reading ever) and someone asked why we weren't reading harry potter, to which the AP English teacher replied "because Harry Potter isn't high school level reading."

That's a fair assessment, particularly of vocabulary and style. Themeatically I think she creeps ahead of that by the end of the series.

Although, frankly, I'm grateful I was never forced to read LOTR. It's better prose, but not a lot better. It's still fairly dire. None of it is Faulkner, Fitzgerald, or even Dickens (ugh).

Kinda surprised it was in an AP class (as opposed to a regualar class).

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

that said, if someone tries to put hp on a pedestal, i too will muster all the condescension and indignation i can, because WTF FRUITS IT'S FLUFFY LAZYTIME READING ABOUT WIZARDS AND CASTLES. don't conflate personal delight in something with any greater notions of quality, especially considering the long-established rules of criticism. there's material worthy of such debates, and then there 're retards who think the script for xenogears should be on college reading lists.

Hooray for the return of Drinky!

(Half expected the word "man-children" to appear, but then again, that's sooooo 2006.)

Spoiler

the above is not intended sarcastically

 

[Amir0x]

I disagree with Orson Scott Card on so many fucking levels philosophically and politically and whatever-else-ally, but he is completely spot on in his destruction of J.K. Rowling. She is a pathetic hack of a writer, and any piece which points this out is O.K. by me.

 

[Anerythristic]

I disagree with Orson Scott Card on so many fucking levels philosophically and politically and whatever-else-ally, but he is completely spot on in his destruction of J.K. Rowling. She is a pathetic hack of a writer, and any piece which points this out is O.K. by me.

Agreed, my kid loves the book. I let him read the books and have never ridiculed the books or Rowling.

I would put forward that like any media/toy success she was at the right place at the right time, it's like winning the lottery. "17 years of hard work!" :lol. The lawsuit is just plain bad.

 

[lopaz]

I would put forward that like any media/toy success she was at the right place at the right time, it's .

assbags. It's no accident, I read the first book without knowing anything of the hype when I was a kid, and loved the shit out of it. She creates an interesting world and interesting plots for children, so nyah to you

 

[Flynn]

assbags. It's no accident, I read the first book without knowing anything of the hype when I was a kid, and loved the shit out of it. She creates an interesting world and interesting plots for children, so nyah to you

Zeitgeist doesn't require advertising.

 

[madara]

Well at end of day your either an arm chair critic or a creator. Popularity breeds alot critics that cant face the fact they will never remotely have the talent to create what they are so passionately hating or even understand the variables. For a forum that raved about Ratatouille, it seems none really took that films message to heart outside the first viewing. Rowling delivered a full seven novels and didnt end up like Robert Jordan, Terry Goodkind, Steven King or maybe even neogaf's beloved George R. R. Martin. She didnt sag in middle for numerous novels or at the end. Given the huge stress to this phenomenal HP crazy that is major kudos.
But dont let this rational thinking stop gaffers from going through life trashing others by all means. :lol The last moments of our lives with thousands of negative comments forever in cyberspace aimed at fellow entertainers and fellow man am I sure we will wish we had only more time to add to the rant list so we can be remembered as what we do best, condemnation.

 

[Anasui Kishibe]

so what's new? He just reiterated the fact he's an asshole, not that i needed any confirmation

 

[bengraven]

And Lucas stole Star Wars from Kurosawa, old serials, and WWII dogfighting movies.

Yeah, they're kids books and may not be considered worthy of the attention by lit snobs, but fuck, so was The Wizard of Oz, Card. WoO is derivative of Alice in Wonderland.

Jesus, a bunch of men arguing about kids books.

 

[Anasui Kishibe]

And Lucas stole Star Wars from Kurosawa, old serials, and WWII dogfighting movies.

Yeah, they're kids books and may not be considered worthy of the attention by lit snobs, but fuck, so was The Wizard of Oz, Card. WoO is derivative of Alice in Wonderland.

he's american, will never admit that

 

[Count Dookkake]

And Lucas stole Star Wars from Kurosawa, old serials, and WWII dogfighting movies.

There is a difference between mixing-and-matching influences and imitating one specific work or genre.

he's american, will never admit that

I think he has admitted it in many interviews.

 

[Escape Goat]

go read path of the hero


alot of these literary conventions are universal.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

I think he has admitted it in many interviews.

Yep. He has admitted it many times. There is also a huge difference between finding inspiration, and ripping a story completely off.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

:lol @ the Potter fans.

Card isn't saying that nobody borrows from one another. He even admits to borrowing the whole idea of the ansible which he uses quite freely. He's saying that it's ridiculous that she's suing others for something she does frivously.

Orson Scott Card is a douchebag in real life (I've read a few of his blogs), has terrible taste in movies and is definitely an opinionated whore, but he's right about this. He also shits all over Rowling when it comes to writing. When the fuck is he going to write Shadows in Flight.

 

[Love To Love You Baby]

He's a homophobic idiot who can't write for shit.

And no, I don't care either way about J.K. Rowling.

 

[sonikokaruto]

He's a homophobic idiot who can't write for shit.

And no, I don't care either way about J.K. Rowling.

omfg this is great, not even gay-ming age has come to acuse him of being homophobic and you just came to say that

:lol

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

He's a homophobic idiot who can't write for shit.

Well, you're half right. I do think he is a good writer, and I've enjoyed a lot of his work, however, I also think that he has problems with seeing a concept all the way through. For instance, Ender's Game is great, and widely hailed as a classic, Speaker For The Dead was an amazing follow up, and Xenophobe was great for about 2/3 of the book. The last 50 pages in particular went down hill fast, and I just lost interest from there.

His continual mining of the Ender Universe is a bit off putting as well.

 

[RaymondCarver]

Orson Scott Card +1


................. I'm currently reading the Ender's Shadow (Urchin) series, and I'm on Shadow Puppets



I found this place online to rent Audiobooks because the local library doesn't have them.











As for Orson, I'm glad he's giving J.K. a piece of his mind.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

Orson Scott Card +1


................. I'm currently reading the Ender's Shadow (Urchin) series, and I'm on Shadow Puppets



I found this place online to rent Audiobooks because the local library doesn't have them.


As for Orson, I'm glad he's giving J.K. a piece of his mind.

You're lucky. The book following Shadow Puppets (Shadow of the Giant) is one of my favourite books of all time. On par with the original Ender's Game.

 

[way more]

George Lucas ripped off Orson Scott Card?

 

[Absinthe (Permed)]

He's spot on about the Dumbledore thing in the very least. If she wanted to write a gay character then she should have. You don't very vaguely hint that a character is gay (I actually wouldn't have known if I wasn't told) and then try to make it look like you're some socially progressive writer AFTER the book comes out. She was worried that she would piss off her core audience and receive negative publicity so she held off on that nugget of information until after the book was released.

 

[Ford Prefect]

omfg this is great, not even gay-ming age has come to acuse him of being homophobic and you just came to say that

:lol

I guess you missed this post.

He's spot on about the Dumbledore thing in the very least. If she wanted to write a gay character then she should have. You don't very vaguely hint that a character is gay (I actually wouldn't have known if I wasn't told) and then try to make it look like you're some socially progressive writer AFTER the book comes out. She was worried that she would piss off her core audience and receive negative publicity so she held off on that nugget of information until after the book was released.

Hey, who doesn't like sneaky homosexuality? Seriously though, I still think the way she handled the whole Dumbledore thing was pretty great. A person's sexuality does not define them (unless they're Nick or Greatness Gone), so why would there be any need to explicitly spell it out, be they straight OR gay?

 

[bengraven]

go read path of the hero


alot of these literary conventions are universal.

Yep, you are correct.

You could say everything rips off the story of King Arthur as well.

 

[Gaborn]

omfg this is great, not even gay-ming age has come to acuse him of being homophobic and you just came to say that

:lol

Well, he does have a rather strong religious conviction against homosexuality and I was NOT a fan of the way he portrayed Josef in Songmaster, but I'm not sure if the way he wrote the character was more reflective of his personal views today, or more reflective of the 80s in general's perception of homosexuality. So, I give him a pass, the man has talent and I disagree with him on one issue, big deal.

 

[bengraven]

And really, the bottom line is that kids don't care if something rips something else off. Kids read what they want or what their friends want them to read. Shit, the fact that kids are fucking reading should be /thread right there.

A bunch of old people complaining about the books only make them want to read them more.

I mean, seriously, 80's Childhood-age, if your parents lectured about the literary qualities of Choose Your Own Adventure, would you have stopped reading them?

 

[way more]

He's spot on about the Dumbledore thing in the very least. If she wanted to write a gay character then she should have. You don't very vaguely hint that a character is gay (I actually wouldn't have known if I wasn't told) and then try to make it look like you're some socially progressive writer AFTER the book comes out. She was worried that she would piss off her core audience and receive negative publicity so she held off on that nugget of information until after the book was released.

Most of the time you don't realize you are reading about a gay character. I'm always surprised about how incredibly dense I must be to not notice that I've totally missed the gay subtext in literature. The only thing she did that other writers usually do not is to publicly announce her intent instead of let it remain ambiguous.

 

[Absinthe (Permed)]

Most of the time you don't realize you are reading about a gay character. I'm always surprised about how incredibly dense I must be to not notice that I've totally missed the gay subtext in literature. The only thing she did that other writers usually do not is to publicly announce her intent instead of let it remain ambiguous.

But that's stupid of her. Why do that? What compelled her to announce it like it was some big deal? That's what irked me about the whole thing.

 

[Verdre]

But that's stupid of her. Why do that? What compelled her to announce it like it was some big deal? That's what irked me about the whole thing.

Someone asked her and she answered.

 

[The_Inquisitor]

I have read some of his works, and holy crap... He is dead on. I do think JK is going to far on this too, after all sales of this book will most likely lead to increased popularity of her own series.

 

[traveler]

Err... most of those similarities are common archetypes. Card is not responsible in the slightest for inventing the idea of the young hero who rises from a bad situation to face evil, the school as a place of trial, or the wise old man who tutors the young hero on his journey. Hardly an epic putdown. That said, Rowling's lawsuit is kinda pathetic, so I can kinda see what he's getting at in regards to the reuse of material in media and whatnot.

 

[Ford Prefect]

But that's stupid of her. Why do that? What compelled her to announce it like it was some big deal? That's what irked me about the whole thing.

Because homophobia IS a big deal, and she probably got a kick out of offending the ass-backward sensibilities of retards around the world.

Someone asked her and she answered.

That too. It wasn't even really that big of a deal in the first place.