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Overwatch adds another LGBTQ Charcter.

Who knows.

KgQI6hB.jpg


Oh, but I think you do. After all, the only pandering you like, is the one aimed at you.
 

guggnichso

Banned
But why are you annoyed that people like him don't like it? Aren't we free to choose what to like and not to like? In my case, I'd rather all sexual anything is thrown out. I don't care. It all feels forced and for me has no place in gaming. If it's a mature game, well whatever. But I don't want to see them forced in games easily accessible by very young people.

Luckily, we are on a discussion forum, where we can discuss stuff.
 
Who do you think RDR2 (No name the last AAA game that came out) is aimed to?
People?

Are you actually going to ignore the other 99% of games in the industry to try and validate your claim? Gaming has not being solely about AAA games for over a decade now. Double A and indie games have just as much relevance in the gaming space as any indie game... arguable even more.

Just look at Undertale.

None of this tell us anything about the audience of the game.
People?

There is a term for people who blindly indulge in their personal identity to the exclusion of everything else. Do you know what it is?

Also you seem to think that "pandering" and "aimed at" are bad things. They are not. It's normal to have a target audience.
"Aimed at" and "pandering" have two completely different meanings, and your grasp of the English language is good enough for you understand that difference. You are being disingenuous if you claim that you don't.

And again, you completely glanced over my earlier post. Still waiting.

Oh, but I think you do. After all, the only pandering you like, is the one aimed at you.
Explain me then. A disabled, liberal democrat who is also LGBT+.

The arguments you don't like don't stop existing just because you ignore them.
 
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guggnichso

Banned
OK? i don't really care if a character is straight/gay or identifies as a particular sex (or none)....

this shit is suited for over at ResetEra where they will no doubt be praising Blizzard for LGBT representation. It's cool and I got nothing against it but jeez I just wanna play games.


incoming Fallout quotes...

I don’t know, I see quite a few people in this thread stating that they don’t care and then go on Paragraph long rants on how having a character in a video game be gay is a secret ploy by the librulz to further their evil agenda and a danger to the kids. I know, it’s weird, but that’s what it is.
 

pipedream

Neo Member
None of this happened. They just revealed an estabilished character had a same-sex lover (aka he's gay) in a comic. Comics that exist to expand the characters.

If this comic had revealed he had a girlfriend, no one would care. If this comic had revealed Mercy and Genji are dating, no one would care (Except the shippers). But when it comes to homosexuality? MUH AGENDA, MUH FORCED DIVERSITY. It's like a broken
NPC.

This is my thought process too. Blizzard has been writing these world building comics since OW's release, and all they did was release the comic. As far as I can see they have not highlighted or purposely trumpeted about 76's sexuality to effect controversy or marketing. We the games have done that. Overwatch has a HUGE roster of characters, and so far two of them been lesbian / gay. It's not used in a raunchy or distasteful way in the comic, its like one paragraph where a relationship is referenced.

Claiming this as a political agenda says much more about us then it does blizzard. This shouldn't be an issue at all. I've just recently started playing Overwatch a lot, and I really like the game- but I've definitely noticed a lot more hate speech and slander than I'm use to hearing in online games (maybe its a younger audience?), and I hope that this doesn't encourage slurs and disrespect towards people playing the character.

I love video games, they are and have always been a huge part of my life, but I still really resist being labeled a gamer due to the lack of tolerance I experience daily in the community... I
 

Helios

Member
It's a shame we not on Voat or lolcow or whatever where you can win an argument by repeating agendaaaaaaaaa, eh? Maybe you'll have more luck there.
Impressive. Saying stuff like this and than proceeding to shit up the thread by trying to paint other users as homophobic, misunderstanding their opinion on purpose and giving one-line responses with a reaction image attached to it. You think you're above it but your level of discourse is not much higher than 4chan.
 

guggnichso

Banned
I strongly oppose this. I don't know a single gay person who is not irritated by things like this. Most gays find it annoying nowadays, because they don't want other people to pander to their sexual preferences and make them look like they are not normal.

You may not be able to help it, but people like you should stop living in the parallel universe called the internet. Gays on Twitter and internet forums don't represent the real world. They are they loudest for sure, but they are not the majority of gay people.

For the very large majority on this forum and in the real world gay people are just normal people. Nothing more and nothing less. Period.
There is no need for people like you, and some others of course, to always come up with this minority bullshit and act like you represent the majority, which just is not the case.

Aren’t you just claiming you represent the majority of gay people with your opinion?
 
The love for the characters in this game is still baffling to me. They are all kind of dull. I don't even find most of the designs that interesting.
 

guggnichso

Banned
I wonder if these topics/threads aren't aren't more suited for Off-Topic as it's never about the gaming but LGBTQ itself of streamer mistreats wife and so forth.
The gaming part if nihil and pretty much every comment is about anything but gaming itself.

Personally, I‘d rather see this stuff in the politics forum, sadly.
 
Would these people would still play the game if the main character was a gay guy, instead of straight guy? I think we all know the answer, as some people in this thread even told us.

To me it depends on the game: if asexual, then whatever. If the game can develop in romantic elements (or features canon romantic elements out the control of the player) then I'm out. I'm still in cautious watch about Cyberpunk 2077 for that reason.



1024full-fear-effect-2%3A-retro-helix-artwork.jpg


Pictured: Two lesbian women.

Would you say this picture is pandering?

Who do you think is aimed to?


"Aimed at" and "pandering" have two completely different meanings, and your grasp of the English language is good enough for you understand that difference. You are being disingenuous if you claim that you don't.
m.
No, they are not, which you don't seem to understand. Games art art, but they are also products that people want to sell.

Do you think it's a coincidence that when you play the latest Xenoblade game all the women have huge breasts and are in various state of undress? The audience is male otaku and the game is pandering to them. There is nothing particularity wrong with it (Though excessive pandering can ruin a product, but that's a discussion for another time).

And again, you completely glanced over my earlier post. Still waiting.
What post?

Explain me then. A disabled, liberal democrat who is also LGBT+.
Then you should know how risky is to put gay men in a game compared to making a game with a straight dude or even a lesbian woman.
 
No one is actually afraid of gay people.
Good thing that's not what the word means. Though given how much you use this argument, we may as well just call you illiterate.

Also "no one". Eh, I say some people have genuine fear, like "Oh god, they are going to rape/molest me". It's mostly projecton, though.
 
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betrayal

Banned
Aren’t you just claiming you represent the majority of gay people with your opinion?

Yes, of course i do. I'm sick of the internet warriors who think that if 3 people post something on twitter, that the media and the very same people claim that a whole community is in outrage. This shit really needs to stop.

It is not only the gay people. It is the same with feminism for example. The very large majority of women are sick of the new feminism largely emerged online and do not identify with it (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evolutionary-entertainment/201205/giving-feminism-bad-name). There many more polls that even are more obvious than the provided link.

In today's world most of the time it's not about what people really want. It is about who screams the loudest.


O Orange_Man_Good
A single game can pander to a lot of things at once. Stop trying to nit-pick a specific scene of a single game and act like that's the whole game. You just cannot win this battle because of things like facts and reality.
 
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Would these people would still play the game if the main character was a gay guy, instead of straight guy? I think we all know the answer, as some people in this thread even told us.






1024full-fear-effect-2%3A-retro-helix-artwork.jpg


Pictured: Two lesbian women.

Would you say this picture is pandering?

Who do you think is aimed to?
Lesbians?
 

guggnichso

Banned
Yes, of course i do. I'm sick of the internet warriors who think that if 3 people post something on twitter, that the media and the very same people claim that a whole community is in outrage. This shit really needs to stop.

It is not only the gay people. It is the same with feminism for example. The very large majority of women are sick of the new feminism largely emerged online and do not identify with it (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evolutionary-entertainment/201205/giving-feminism-bad-name). There many more polls that even are more obvious than the provided link.

In today's world most of the time it's not about what people really want. It is about who screams the loudest.

Do you also have data showing most gay men roll their eyes because there’s a gay character in Overwatch?

Seeing that you speak for the majority of gay people, you surely can provide evidence that you do?

Edit:

„You do realize that some extracted scenes from large game that can represent many things has nothing to do with the majority of games. A single game can pander and do pander to a lot of things at once. Stop trying to nit-pick a specific scene of a single game and act like that's the whole game.“

Do YOU realize that you are currently offended because of a single isolated scene of a comic that’s not even in the game itself? Just asking.
 
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Deft Beck

Member
They didn't "add" anyone as much as they fleshed out the backstory of one of their poster boys.

Note also that they only did this in a random PDF that they released quietly after the holiday event.

If this was anywhere in the actual game then they'd have China breathing down their neck. This is also why Tracer's girlfriend was buried in a single page of a comic released last year.

I don't mind it as much as I view it to be pretty pointless and half-hearted. If they really wanted to do something meaningful, they'd have done it by now.
 
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Helios

Member
Then you should know how risky is to put gay men in a game compared to making a game with a straight dude or even a lesbian woman.
How risky is it? OW already had LGBT representation before and I'm not seeing them filing for bankruptcy any time soon. Games have had gay men in their story for decades and they still sold just as well. Don't make it seem like Blizzard is some bold company caring for the LGBT community.
 
Lesbians?
Can't tell if you are being disingenuous, or you actually believe they would make a game aimed at lesbian gamers in 2001 for the PS1.

How risky is it? OW already had LGBT representation before and I'm not seeing them filing for bankruptcy any time soon. Games have had gay men in their story for decades and they still sold just as well. Don't make it seem like Blizzard is some bold company caring for the LGBT community.
Oh, it's not risky for Overwatch, I agree. The discussion moved in a more broad sense since we were talking about AAA games in general, like RDR2.
 
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DonF

Member
I trully don't care about this. I think its shoehorned, super forced and lame, but It won't stop me from playing the game and just made me go "uh?"

But...can someone tell whats with the "This makes me so fucking happy, I'm jumping on my chair oh my god best day of my life!" posts?

I've seen tons of those on reddit... and I don't understand it.
 
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Would these people would still play the game if the main character was a gay guy, instead of straight guy? I think we all know the answer, as some people in this thread even told us.
It certainly didn't harm Life is Strange, Dream Daddy, Dishonoured 2, Assassin's Creed Odyssey, any of the Dragon Ages or Mass Effects, Grand Theft Auto (Gay Tony) or Borderlands to include inclusive characters.

And I highly doubt it's going to affect the sales of The Last of Us 2.

Note that I never said these sort of characters shouldn't be included in games. I just expect them to be written well.

You're talking about a handful of reactionary individuals out of millions. Stop lumping everyone you disagree with into one giant blob of intolerance and stupidity. It's incredibly disingenuous, and your constant ad hominem just make you sound insecure.

Pictured: Two lesbian women.

Would you say this picture is pandering?

Who do you think is aimed to?
Straight men. Nearly twenty years ago. This is a tacky, lazy ad from the turn of the century. Nobody has ever pretended that it was anything else. People weren't defending it then, and they aren't defending now. We are talking about marketing to audiences now. An 18 year old ad has no bearing on this discussion.

Do you think it's a coincidence that when you play the latest Xenoblade game all the women have huge breasts and are in various state of undress? The audience is male otaku and the game is pandering to them. There is nothing particularity wrong with it (Though excessive pandering can ruin a product, but that's a discussion for another time).
Yes, the audience of that particular game is pretty clear. So? That is one game. For every 1 game like that, there are a dozen that are not.

Why are you intentionally being disingenuous?

What post?
This one: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/overwatch-adds-another-lgbtq-charcter.1470731/page-5#post-253699666

Then you should know how risky is to put gay men in a game compared to making a game with a straight dude or even a lesbian woman.
Except it isn't. People simply don't care anymore. I get maybe one insult about my sexuality a year.
 
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lock2k

Banned
https://m.ign.com/articles/2019/01/07/overwatch-new-short-story-explores-soldier-76s-lgbtq-backstory

So they have revealed Solider 76 to be gay. Overwatch has been the most open about adding pretty much everything to it as far as representation.

My question is, how much representation do you need to enjoy something. Granted this is only in a short story and isn’t in the game per say, so in a way you could not watch this and go along your merry way. But I was talking with my friend about how much representation do you really need to enjoy a game.

Does the charcter HAVE to look like you.
Does the charcter HAVE to have the same sexual preferences.
Does the charcter HAVE to have the same personality style.
Do you even need to relate to the charcter?

Does this even matter to most people?
For me personally almost none of this matters. I don’t look at a charcter and say hey, they look like me (or doesn’t). I have never thought about a characters sexual preference unless it was detrimental to a story.

If any of the things above I tend to gravitate to it’s more the personality of characters that I find awesome. Geralt, Solid Snake, Kiryu and Majima from Yakuza, hell even Solider 76 himself(I tend to dig the strong, gruff type that doesn’t take crap from anyone). I would much rather see fleshed out good characters than worry about what sexual preference they have. If for some reason there is a good reason for it, then fine.

I tend to play characters for who fits my play style better and could honestly careless what they look like. Most of the characters I play in OW are female and in Rainbow I play Female for Defense and Male for Offense and until writing this I never really even thought about it. I just found the play style I liked and went with it.

Anyways, this wasn’t a hugely thought out post. More of a rant to a degree.

Does any of this matter to you guys or do you just play and not think about it.

Is this needed, wanted? Or is it something along the lines of ticking boxes to appease everyone?

Usually my favorite characters are anthropomorphic animals, monsters and girls. I love mascots. I'm a white guy. I don't give a shit if a characters looks like me or not. I was always team Carl Johnson over Tommy Vercetti on GTA, for example. CJ is nothing like me, I loved him to bits.
 

betrayal

Banned
Do you also have data showing most gay men roll their eyes because there’s a gay character in Overwatch?

Seeing that you speak for the majority of gay people, you surely can provide evidence that you do?

You did not understand me. They do not roll their eyes because their is a gay character in a game. They are annoyed because companies and people try to pander to their sexual preference because they think they need support or something feels forced and is inspired by something to produce more revenue or attract more people.



„You do realize that some extracted scenes from large game that can represent many things has nothing to do with the majority of games. A single game can pander and do pander to a lot of things at once. Stop trying to nit-pick a specific scene of a single game and act like that's the whole game.“

Do YOU realize that you are currently offended because of a single isolated scene of a comic that’s not even in the game itself? Just asking.

What do you mean? Why should i be offended? By what?

I just said, if we're talking about Fear Effect 2, that games pander to many groups or people, not just a few. So you cannot pick one specific scene (from the game or it's marketing) and say "Oh look, this game panders only to this group and that's why i'm right and most game are for straight white guys." or shit like that.
 
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DonF

Member
Gay people actually exist. Once you understand it, maybe you understand why they are happy and they aren't "shoehorned, super forced and lame ".
.
I never said gay people don't exist.
Look, I'm Chilean...if they just pull out of a hat that hell...Mercy is actually Chilean, I wouldn't be super happy, I would be confused. Like, out of nowhere? And why? Ok...
 

lock2k

Banned
No, it's more of a fighting game (Street Fighter II) term. Like, "Blanka is my main, but I'm also okay with Chun Li". Your "main" is the character with which you are the best and practice with.

It's funny. I only got familiar with "maining" a character in this decade after seeing the term in the internet. All of my friends who play fighting games play a rotating cast of characters all the time. I have some characters I'm best with, but I always like to play fighting games as a russian roulette type of game where I change the character on every fight.
 

Ridaxan

Member
In the back of my mind I hoped that we're past the point in society where sexual orientation of a character (or even a real person) is news. It shouldn't be newsworthy, true acceptance means that it's commonplace enough that it doesn't become a spectacle.
 

MayauMiao

Member
Doesn't matter. These are fictional characters. You can find a straight Tracer porn if you want her to be your desired sexual preference.
 

Enygger_Tzu

Banned
Wasn't Soldier 76 supposed to be straight?

Good thing that's not what the word means. Though given how much you use this argument, we may as well just call you illiterate.

Actually, that is what the word means, just because illiterate leftists create control words does not mean those words are true, or merit seriousness.

Doesn't matter. These are fictional characters. You can find a straight Tracer porn if you want her to be your desired sexual preference.

The ad hoc cuts both ways here.
 

anthraticus

Banned
It's funny. I only got familiar with "maining" a character in this decade after seeing the term in the internet. All of my friends who play fighting games play a rotating cast of characters all the time. I have some characters I'm best with, but I always like to play fighting games as a russian roulette type of game where I change the character on every fight.
When we use to play fighting, sports games, ect (face to face before all the online stuff)...anyone that would keep using the same character, team over and over again would be subject to some pretty heavy ridicule, which pretty much forced them to switch things up.

I guess they can get away a lot easier with that stuff in online games nowadays though.
 
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lock2k

Banned
When we use to play fighting, sports games, ect (face to face before all the online stuff)...anyone that would keep using the same character, team over and over again would be subject to some pretty heavy ridicule, which pretty much forced them to switch things up.

The same thing used to happen in my circle. It was cool to know how to play with multiple characters, nowadays, people are so heavily invested in this competitive scene that the normal thing is maining a character.
 

Aurelian

my friends call me "Cunty"
I trully don't care about this. I think its shoehorned, super forced and lame, but It won't stop me from playing the game and just made go "uh?"

But...can someone tell whats with the "This makes me so fucking happy, I'm jumping on my chair oh my god best day of my life!" posts?

I've seen tons of those on reddit... and I don't understand it.

Think about it this way: imagine you're LGBT. Nearly all major games where sexuality comes up exclude you, sometimes intentionally... and those that don't will include you either jokingly (see: negative stereotypes of gay men as weak) or as pandering to horny straight boys (see Fear Effect 2 above). How would you feel being constantly shunted to the side?

Now imagine that the developers of a major game declare that not one but two characters are LGBT. It might just be in a story outside of the game proper, but you finally, finally have a non-stereotypical character you can identify with. I might be as straight as an arrow, but I can get an inkling of how LGBT people might feel -- it's a big developer acknowledging that they exist and matter.
 
It certainly didn't harm Dishonoured 2,
I don't remember any gay male character visible in D2, unless you mean some stuff in background with Emily that you need to squint to see?


Assassin's Creed Odyssey, any of the Dragon Ages
Basically RPG. I'll give you AC, but the encounters are avoidable.

ACO still gets tons of shit for it, though;

WGbJO90.jpg



or Mass Effects.
... Which didn't have gay sex until ME3? But had lesbian sex since the first Ep. 1. Can't you see the double standards? How old are you?

And I highly doubt it's going to affect the sales of The Last of Us 2.
See above.

You're talking about a handful of reactionary individuals out of millions. Stop lumping everyone you disagree with into one giant blob of intolerance and stupidity. It's incredibly disingenuous, and your constant ad hominem just make you sound insecure.
I don't think everyone is intolerant. I think an AAA game with a pure male gay character wouldn't get made. I think the responses in this thread show a lot of intolerant people hiding behind "agendaaaaaaaa" and "the leeeeeeft" and "pandeeering."


eMP2KLQ.jpg

3UylUVD.jpg


TlW7BnZ.jpg




Straight men.
Your argument was "I played a game with a female character, so it's aimed at women". It isn't necessarily.

Yes, the audience of that particular game is pretty clear . So? That is one game. For every 1 game like that, there are a dozen that are not.
Why aren't you screaming "pandeeeeering" at that game?

Why are you intentionally being so disingenuous?
I'm not the one arguing pandering isn't a thing. You are!


What is the narrative now? Is pandering good? Bad? Is it a thing? Can we pander to straight dudes, but not LGBT or those who tollerate them? How does it work? I'm a bit lost.


https://www.neogaf.com/threads/overwatch-adds-another-lgbtq-charcter.1470731/page-5#post-253699666

What? I did.


Except it isn't. People simply don't care anymore. I get maybe one insult about my sexuality a year.
Nice. I hear insults about my sexuality every day.

Also protip: "I'm not homophobic but you don't think gay relationship are forceeeed and an angendaaaaaaaaaaa" is an insult. These people don't like you, they don't want you, they think your existence is unnecessary. They don't have the same reaction at straight sexuality, there is no thread about "Omg, Genji revealed STRAIGHT in new overwatch comic".
 
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I absolutely love how all your "evidence" is literally a handful of cherry picked comments by a tiny, utterly miniscule percentage of the gaming community.

This kind of perspective is no different to religious zealotry. Like assuming that anyone who has sex outside of wedlock is a sinner. Legitimate cultish behaviour.

Also, you shifted the goalposts about half a dozen times in your post. We are talking about representation as a whole, not just one tiny niche group.
 
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DonF

Member
Think about it this way: imagine you're LGBT. Nearly all major games where sexuality comes up exclude you, sometimes intentionally... and those that don't will include you either jokingly (see: negative stereotypes of gay men as weak) or as pandering to horny straight boys (see Fear Effect 2 above). How would you feel being constantly shunted to the side?

Now imagine that the developers of a major game declare that not one but two characters are LGBT. It might just be in a story outside of the game proper, but you finally, finally have a non-stereotypical character you can identify with. I might be as straight as an arrow, but I can get an inkling of how LGBT people might feel -- it's a big developer acknowledging that they exist and matter.
My sexuality doesnt define me. Even if I were LGBT I can't put myself in that scenario. And I don't need to feel identified with characters... in any medium.

But, hey, I feel what you are saying.
 
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personally I don't need any representation to enjoy a good quality game as a good videogame isn't based on how well i'm represented.

that said, in these types of multiplayer games representation and characters a person can relate to plays more of a role for a games community so the more the merrier in my opinion.

as far as sexual orientation goes it does bug me some of the time when media/entertainment throws it in when its not needed. why does sexual orientation really need to be confirmed cannon in something that has little to nothing to do with the overall content.

sexual orientation isn't specific to any one type of person, so without openly unnecessarily confirming it, technically any character can be hetero/homo/etc. its just up to the users imagination and how it should be in most instances.
 
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I absolutely love how all your "evidence" is literally a handful of cherry picked comments by a tiny, utterly miniscule percentage of the gaming community.
Well, better than evidence based on... nothing? Where is your evidence? I presented you tons of cases, even games (ME, in which being lesbian was OK but being gay wasn't.... which should tell you about the main audience of these games).




We are literally in a thread that could be used as an evidence.

This kind of perspective is no different to religious zealotry. Like assuming that anyone who has sex outside of wedlock is a sinner. Legitimate cultish behaviour.

Also, you shifted the goalposts about half a dozen times in your post. We are talking about representation as a whole, not just one tiny niche group.
Uh-uh.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
It's funny. I only got familiar with "maining" a character in this decade after seeing the term in the internet. All of my friends who play fighting games play a rotating cast of characters all the time. I have some characters I'm best with, but I always like to play fighting games as a russian roulette type of game where I change the character on every fight.
That sounds entertaining.
 
The evidence is the millions of sales of the games I listed.
Which I addressed. Also wasn't D2 a flop anyway? I always hear people telling me "It went woke so it got broke". I'm still confused about it.

If you want to see how people react to a game purely aimed at gay men, you should see Dream Daddy's reactions. I heard OAG's wrote some pretty good articles about it.
 

Ascend

Member
I never played Overwatch beyond one free day.... From what I've played, it's basically a multiplayer shooter, where the story/plot is pretty much irrelevant... So... Why is it important again, to portray who is LGBT and who isn't?
 
I never played Overwatch beyond one free day.... From what I've played, it's basically a multiplayer shooter, where the story/plot is pretty much irrelevant... So... Why is it important again, to portray who is LGBT and who isn't?
The game has a lore and they (in)frequently release comics and stories that expand the characters' backgrounds.
 
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