Oxford students petition for Professor to be fired on ground of homophobia

Apr 19, 2018
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#54
Homosexuality was considered a mental disorder for the last 2000 year, and its only recently that it was removed from the medical books on disability, and it seems that transgender is going to be next. Still doesnt mean this is some sort of fact of nature that its normal.
Argument for removal was stupid. Basically: we can't do anything about it so we will consider that it doesn't exist. Like you would have leg cut off and suddenly you are not disabled. This is the same reason why transgenders don't want removal of it because it would mean they wouldn't get money for drugs, sex change operations and so on.

I do understand emotional appeal and trying to reduce stigmatization but at some point you are arguing against reality and this is where you should say "life is rough, deal with it".

Being Jew, Christian or Muslim does not excuse hateful behaviour.
Ok you are now being hateful toward those kind of groups. Should you lose job ? Chance is that 70% of people who you interact with have radically different set of believes than you. What is your stance on war in some place ? Bang, then why do you deserve your job if you support killing of innocent people ? (assuming you do) or why do you deserve of your job when you don't want to support our troops (assuming you don't). What about medical care ? Damn you want to help people ? You are nazi then, no job for you.

The road to hell is usually paved with good intentions.

And that is just touching only people current stances. Imagine now for a second that people actually do develop their stances. I for one was full liberal when i was 19 year old. Now i am 32 and i am centrist. Should i lose my job today because when i was 19 i though for a while that communism is a good thing ?
 
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#55
Ok you are now being hateful toward those kind of groups. Should you lose job ? Chance is that 70% of people who you interact with have radically different set of believes than you. What is your stance on war in some place ? Bang, then why do you deserve your job if you support killing of innocent people ? (assuming you do) or why do you deserve of your job when you don't want to support our troops (assuming you don't). What about medical care ? Damn you want to help people ? You are nazi then, no job for you.
It is not hateful to say that believing something does not excuse hateful behaviour. I did not state that anyone who has a different opinion from me shall be out of a job. In fact, it would still be fine if people were opposed to gay marriage, universal health care or renewable energies (in most jobs; of course things differ if you are a politician, because then, heck, get lost if you have any of those positions) kept their jobs. But for someone in a teaching position to hold such hateful views - and publish them in the capacity of your job - is a huge issue. It creates the fear of discrimination and creates an exclusive space.
Rule of thumb for sanity: Never interact with Schrödinger's cat, because you are generally incapable of understanding his written words and any kind of definitive question from your side is an evil plot to get him.
 
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appaws

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#57
Being Jew, Christian or Muslim does not excuse hateful behaviour.
All orthodox believing Jews, Christians, and Muslims believe that homosexual behavior is sinful and forbidden by God. You are saying that having that view means that you cannot be allowed employment, at least in the public sphere.

It is not hateful to say that believing something does not excuse hateful behaviour. I did not state that anyone who has a different opinion from me shall be out of a job. In fact, it would still be fine if people were opposed to gay marriage, universal health care or renewable energies (in most jobs; of course things differ if you are a politician, because then, heck, get lost if you have any of those positions) kept their jobs. But for someone in a teaching position to hold such hateful views - and publish them in the capacity of your job - is a huge issue. It creates the fear of discrimination and creates an exclusive space.
Does a secularist professor publishing a paper critical of traditional morality create the "fear of discrimination" or an "exclusive space" prejudicial towards students of traditional religious faiths...?
 
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#58
All orthodox believing Jews, Christians, and Muslims believe that homosexual behavior is sinful and forbidden by God. You are saying that having that view means that you cannot be allowed employment, at least in the public sphere.
Believing that (a) god (exists and) thinks that something is bad does not absolve you from evaluating it yourself. The same god is written to think it's fine to kill almost all humans, to punish children for the failings of the ruler of a country and that certain conquerers should exterminate whole people. Just because you believe that that being exists does not excuse making its ascribed psychopathic views your own.

Does a secularist professor publishing a paper critical of traditional morality create the "fear of discrimination" or an "exclusive space" prejudicial towards students of traditional religious faiths...?
Being critical of views and being critical of inherent properties of humans is not comparable. This guy basically says that parts of what people are is not humanly acceptable. The super crazy thing about this is that there is no logical way in which this property has any impact on anyone but the person it is part of, so these properties are also entirely clear to be none of his buisness.
 
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#62
In order to make leftists see the flaws in their reasoning, you have to speak their language.

Therefore my question for leftists is, does being an atheist make you an islamophobe?
 
Apr 19, 2018
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#63
It is not hateful to say that believing something does not excuse hateful behaviour. I did not state that anyone who has a different opinion from me shall be out of a job. In fact, it would still be fine if people were opposed to gay marriage, universal health care or renewable energies (in most jobs; of course things differ if you are a politician, because then, heck, get lost if you have any of those positions) kept their jobs. But for someone in a teaching position to hold such hateful views - and publish them in the capacity of your job - is a huge issue. It creates the fear of discrimination and creates an exclusive space.
Excusme Yoshi i love you man, but who decides what is hateful ? Which is my point.
You argue right now that what you said is not hateful. Who decided that ?

It is not about faith. I am agnostic myself but i understand underlying principle here.
Principle of having personal belief and still acting within bounds of society norms.

If his students decide what he is teaching is wrong scientifically, they can ask school to change their teacher, you won't have me defending that.
But if he actually teaches his students well then i don't see reason why his views on certain things warrant school to fire him.
 
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#64
Leading question is leading.

I've pointed out that you're being disingenuous.
Doubling down on it shows us how sincere you are being.

EDIT: Good to see those that rely on misrepresentation and control are circling their wagons. SOP.
Disingenuous really?

Your comment critised how certain types of speech are not accepted in a world where we are trying to accept everyone ..

So I've asked you .. in relationship to to this thread do you hate homophobia and by extension it's speech. But clearly you've misread the question as a quantum physics equation
 
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#66
Excusme Yoshi i love you man, but who decides what is hateful ? Which is my point.
You argue right now that what you said is not hateful. Who decided that ?
Everyone needs to decide that on their own, how can I decide for others? I have given you the distinction why criticising an idea and a sexual orientation is not the same thing. Then again, if someone said "Being a Christian is never a valid, humanly acceptable choice", then I (as a pretty outspoken atheist) would call that pretty fucked up as well and would deem this as a potential issue when it comes to employing the person as a professor. But, alas, I did not say this, but instead said that the hateful position on gays quoted in op is inacceptable and a major issue when it comes to making such statements on the job, especially when you have teaching duties as well. If some Christians, Muslims or Jews share these views, then this applies to them as well, but it's not something that goes against C/M/J people in general.

If his students decide what he is teaching is wrong scientifically, they can ask school to change their teacher, you won't have me defending that.
This be a completely different issue that has nothing to do with the case at hand.
 
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#67
In order to make leftists see the flaws in their reasoning, you have to speak their language.

Therefore my question for leftists is, does being an atheist make you an islamophobe?
No, thinking some factual statements are wrong does not make you a hater of the people who believe the statements are correct.
I'm ok with you, whom I believe to be a racist, to post on this forum and be able to engage with people who are not racists.
Care to provide evidence for the claim that @AfricanKing is a racist?
 
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#70
Everyone needs to decide that on their own, how can I decide for others? I have given you the distinction why criticising an idea and a sexual orientation is not the same thing. Then again, if someone said "Being a Christian is never a valid, humanly acceptable choice", then I (as a pretty outspoken atheist) would call that pretty fucked up as well and would deem this as a potential issue when it comes to employing the person as a professor. But, alas, I did not say this, but instead said that the hateful position on gays quoted in op is inacceptable and a major issue when it comes to making such statements on the job, especially when you have teaching duties as well. If some Christians, Muslims or Jews share these views, then this applies to them as well, but it's not something that goes against C/M/J people in general.

This be a completely different issue that has nothing to do with the case at hand.
I'm having a hard time understanding the double standart here, any of those religious people would believe that homosexuality is a sin and should go to hell. We don't punish people for their toughts, we punish them for their actions. If the teacher doesn't treat them any different what he believes is not in any way punishable nor should he lose his job for it, otherwise you're going to be firing every religious person in western society.
 
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#72
I'm having a hard time understanding the double standart here, any of those religious people would believe that homosexuality is a sin and should go to hell.
No, they will believe that Yahweh thinks it is a sin and requests the death penalty for them. That does not absolve them from making up their own mind on whether this is morally just.
We don't punish people for their toughts, we punish them for their actions. If the teacher doesn't treat them any different what he believes is not in any way punishable nor should he lose his job for it, otherwise you're going to be firing every religious person in western society.
Writing those texts (on the job) is an action, not a thought. Creating a hostile atmosphere on the campus and fear among the paying students that they may have to hide their homosexuality in order to not face negative consequences is an action that harms the university. If he merely thinks "well, those suckers will go to hell, and rightfully so", then he'd still be a hateful asshole, but that's his issue, I'm not advocating for thought police (not that anyone would know that he thinks that).
Indeed, but this is about opinions, not behaviour.
Writing essays is behaviour.
 
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#74
Disgusting that you're ok with Nazis
I'm assuming you would also let a peadophile teach your children ?
Paedos and nazis. Godwin's law in effect. The censor always cries "but think of the children" while the SJW is busy calling everyone a nazi. For what it's worth, if the paedophile is a very good teacher and is inactive, and properly supervised, in reality there's no likelihood of harm. Indeed, spending time with kids and realising how fucking annoying they are is the surest way to ensure that a person has no desire to fuck them.
 
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#75
Then again, if someone said "Being a Christian is never a valid, humanly acceptable choice", then I (as a pretty outspoken atheist) would call that pretty fucked up as well and would deem this as a potential issue when it comes to employing the person as a professor.
But your argument is exactly that. If you are ortodox christian/Muslim whatever you can't have a job, especially not as a teacher. And why stop at gay rights ? Why not include abortion views, place of woman in family, who should work, how kids should be thought by parents. I mean at least half of mulsims in 1st world believe that people who quit faith should be decapitated.

Why not include political opinion like i already stated. I mean what is more important rights of some people or some people actual lives ? Ok you support gay rights but you voted for party that kills people ? Dude hates gays but voted for party who don't want war. Who in this case could argue you are more morally virtuous to have a job as a teacher or any place for that matter ? At best he has bad opinion while you actually contributed personally to death of actual people.

That is why this show me personal beliefs before hiring you mantra is so flawed.
As long as you are fine in your work, you personal belief should not matter at all.

Because in civilized society we make distinction between saying something and doing something.
This is why shouting nigger to void is not a crime while attacking him with baseball bat black man is a crime.

If school want to teach kids about gay rights and dude will not do it then school can fire him.
 
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#76
No, they will believe that Yahweh thinks it is a sin and requests the death penalty for them. That does not absolve them from making up their own mind on whether this is morally just.

Writing those texts (on the job) is an action, not a thought. Creating a hostile atmosphere on the campus and fear among the paying students that they may have to hide their homosexuality in order to not face negative consequences is an action that harms the university. If he merely thinks "well, those suckers will go to hell, and rightfully so", then he'd still be a hateful asshole, but that's his issue, I'm not advocating for thought police (not that anyone would know that he thinks that).

Writing essays is behaviour.
Yoshi he wrote this 25 years ago, what he wrote wasn't unacceptable back then and you and these idiots want him fired over it.
Have anyone actually suffered "Negative consequences", if he acts in a homophobic way not only can he face punishment from the University he would be punishable by law.
Well writing your thoughts is behavior I guess, you could only know what he thinks if he wrote it, it's still not "behaviour" he isn't acting in any homophobic manner.
 
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#78
Yoshi he wrote this 25 years ago, what he wrote wasn't unacceptable back then and you and these idiots want him fired over it.
Have anyone actually suffered "Negative consequences", if he acts in a homophobic way not only can he face punishment from the University he would be punishable by law.
Well writing your thoughts is behavior I guess, you could only know what he thinks if he wrote it, it's still not "behaviour" he isn't acting in any homophobic manner.
I have explained the issue already wrt the teaching atmosphere. Regarding the time that has passed: He could distance himself from the essays he wrote back then, or those passages, no one should be fired for expressing hateful views in the past that he has distanced himself from in the meantime.

But your argument is exactly that. If you are ortodox christian/Muslim whatever you can't have a job, especially not as a teacher.
Mo, because being an orthodox Christian / Muslim does not take the responsibility off you to adjust your own morals.
I mean at least half of mulsims in 1st world believe that people who quit faith should be decapitated.
In Germany, if you believe that, you cannot become a teacher. You need to ascribe to the constitution, which grants religious freedom and outlaws death punishment. I am in favour of this rule. I do not want a person as a teacher who is advocating the death penalty, or advocates penalties at all for getting rid of religious beliefs.
That is why this show me personal beliefs before hiring you mantra is so flawed.
As long as you are fine in your work, you personal belief should not matter at all.
Your beliefs don't, your expression, especially on your job, can matter. And if it is such a hateful position as in the op, then it does matter, because it poisons the teaching atmosphere, even if you really do not discriminate (which in itself is hard to control for, if you have such strongly held beliefs).
 
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#80
I have explained the issue already wrt the teaching atmosphere. Regarding the time that has passed: He could distance himself from the essays he wrote back then, or those passages, no one should be fired for expressing hateful views in the past that he has distanced himself from in the meantime.
Ah the good "make them beg for forgiveness", he doesn't need to do anything, he hasn't acted in any homophobic way, somebody who didn't like the dude wen't trough 25! years to find something that could get him fired.


Mo, because being an orthodox Christian / Muslim does not take the responsibility off you to adjust your own morals.
Alright, but most religious people still believe being gay is a sin, if they believe that, are they or not allowed to have jobs?



In Germany, if you believe that, you cannot become a teacher. You need to ascribe to the constitution, which grants religious freedom and outlaws death punishment. I am in favour of this rule. I do not want a person as a teacher who is advocating the death penalty, or advocates penalties at all for getting rid of religious beliefs.
I'm fairly certain being in favor of the death penalty is not "outlawed", if it is it's already trying to control political beliefs, not that I would be surprised if thats the case.

Your beliefs don't, your expression, especially on your job, can matter. And if it is such a hateful position as in the op, then it does matter, because it poisons the teaching atmosphere, even if you really do not discriminate (which in itself is hard to control for, if you have such strongly held beliefs).
He didn't express his beliefs on his job, you're just completely misconstruction whats happening at this point. He didn't act in any homophobic way. There's no proof that he did. People went out of their way something that he wrote over two decades ago, he didn't create an "exclusive" environment, nobody would know he held those beliefs unless they wen't looking for them.

Yoshi you're advocating for policing though, what people believe isn't and shouldn't be punishable, unless they act on it.
 
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#82
Mo, because being an orthodox Christian / Muslim does not take the responsibility off you to adjust your own morals.
So to be clear, you wish to deny people the right to hold their personal deeply-held religious beliefs, and will only tolerate them as a person if they align with your views. Got it. You and NI are so authoritarian it's fucking scary. You two (and AfricanKing) are the best recruitment tool the right ever had because you really have me questioning whether the left is something I wish to remain a part of.
 
May 4, 2005
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#83
Ah the good "make them beg for forgiveness", he doesn't need to do anything, he hasn't acted in any homophobic way, somebody who didn't like the dude wen't trough 25! years to find something that could get him fired.
Forgiveness? Saying that you changed your mind if you actually did is not asking for forgiveness.
Alright, but most religious people still believe being gay is a sin, if they believe that, are they or not allowed to have jobs?
They are idiots then (unless sin ist just meant to say that it is outlawed by Yahweh), but yes, they should be allowed to have jobs. But if they, on their jobs, promote this view and their job is such that it may harm the institution they are working for, then it would be fine for them to be out of their job. As a professor, being tolerant and accepting of people of all walks of life is important to not create a harmful teaching atmosphere of fear.
So to be clear, you wish to deny people the right to hold their personal deeply-held religious beliefs, and will only tolerate them as a person if they align with your views. Got it. You and NI are so authoritarian it's fucking scary. You two (and AfricanKing) are the best recruitment tool the right ever had because you really have me questioning whether the left is something I wish to remain a part of.
No, you are completely wrong in your explanation of what I said. Everyone may hold whatever religious beliefs they want. I will tolerate them as a person, if they do not align with my views. Several deeply relgious people have my highest esteem, and I guarantee you, religious positions automatically do not align with my views. It is completely fine to believe that Yahweh outlaws homosexual sex. Indeed, my understanding of the bible is that the authors wrote him in such a way that he does indeed outlaw homosexual sex (between men). What is not fine is to say that it should be prohibited or that it is morally wrong, especially using such crass words as quoted in op. This would colour my perception of the person similarly negatively as a racist position. That being said, I will tolerate people as persons even if they have such views that I deem extremely appaling, but I will have a bad opinion of their morals.
 

appaws

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#84
Writing essays is behaviour.
Oh Boy. Can I play leftist for a second....? I've always wanted to do this.....

Wow. Just Wow.

Mo, because being an orthodox Christian / Muslim does not take the responsibility off you to adjust your own morals.
That is exactly wrong. As a member of those religions, you are a believer or you are not. It is not a buffet line where you pick and choose.
 
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appaws

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#85
They are idiots then (unless sin ist just meant to say that it is outlawed by Yahweh), but yes, they should be allowed to have jobs. But if they, on their jobs, promote this view and their job is such that it may harm the institution they are working for, then it would be fine for them to be out of their job. As a professor, being tolerant and accepting of people of all walks of life is important to not create a harmful teaching atmosphere of fear.
Calling millions, maybe billions of people idiots.....in the same paragraph where you non-ironically say "tolerant and accepting of people of all walks of life."
 
Aug 22, 2018
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@Yoshi - and yet you would have them lose their jobs for expressing their opinion. The problem here is that going down your chosen path we create an environment in which people can lose their positions for views held 25 years ago, under a different moral environment (and just so you know, 25 years ago people weren't woke). The inevitable consequence of this is that people will be concerned that a perfectly acceptable view expressed now may come to be viewed harshly in the future and limit their speech accordingly, on the presumption that as we become ever more censorious, ever more puritan, that trend continues to the future. Do you have any idea how dangerous that is for humanity?

If we limit the expression of ideas, even ones we find harmful, we lose so much intellectual diversity, and cut off access to so many people who might have contributed great things to the world. We close lines of inquiry, unable to touch them for fear of being judged to be x-ist, and miss out on key information that may even help the people that x might represent to overcome challenges they face.

The most important thing however is that you set a precedent, and thus if the pendulum swings the other way you risk becoming a victim of that censorship. If you're ok with censoring the views of those who are compelled by religious belief to consider homosexuality a sin, then you are ok with holding your tongue and parrotting the accepted party line, even one you find abhorrent like 'homosexuals are evil and wrong', should that become the prevailing accepted opinion. You cannot have one without the other. If you insist on burning people for heresy, don't be surprised if one day someone lights a fire for you.
 
Jun 13, 2017
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#88
They are idiots then (unless sin ist just meant to say that it is outlawed by Yahweh), but yes, they should be allowed to have jobs. But if they, on their jobs, promote this view and their job is such that it may harm the institution they are working for, then it would be fine for them to be out of their job. As a professor, being tolerant and accepting of people of all walks of life is important to not create a harmful teaching atmosphere of fear.
Well this didn't happen so I'm glad we agree, phew.
 
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#89
Oh Boy. Can I play leftist for a second....? I've always wanted to do this.....

Wow. Just Wow.



That is exactly wrong. As a member of those religions, you are a believer or you are not. It is not a buffet line where you pick and choose.
Believing Yahweh exists does not mean you need to have a positive opinion of everything he (is supposed to) says or does. I even agree, it is not a buffet line, you believe it all or nothing, intermediate positions are hard to understand for me. Stating Yahweh is not against homosexual sex would be pretty wild.

Calling millions, maybe billions of people idiots.....in the same paragraph where you non-ironically say "tolerant and accepting of people of all walks of life."
For many outrageous positions you can find millions who hold them. E.g. racism. Does not make them any less idiots.
 
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Mo, because being an orthodox Christian / Muslim does not take the responsibility off you to adjust your own morals.

In Germany, if you believe that, you cannot become a teacher. You need to ascribe to the constitution, which grants religious freedom and outlaws death punishment. I am in favour of this rule. I do not want a person as a teacher who is advocating the death penalty, or advocates penalties at all for getting rid of religious beliefs.

Your beliefs don't, your expression, especially on your job, can matter. And if it is such a hateful position as in the op, then it does matter, because it poisons the teaching atmosphere, even if you really do not discriminate (which in itself is hard to control for, if you have such strongly held beliefs).
I mean if you have this view why allow anyone on campus who believe in any traditional faith ? I already explained to you that almost all faiths have something more to them than just stance on gays in society. Find a man and i will find paragraph on him as they say.

Who poisons more atmosphere is class. Those who have problem with gay rights or those who supported war that ended up killing actual human beings ?
 
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#92
@Yoshi - and yet you would have them lose their jobs for expressing their opinion.
I did not say they should not be able to hold any job whatsoever. In a teaching environment, being hateful towards people for immutable properties of theirs, is a much bigger problem than in many other occupations. If he was a programmer, I would not be in favour of him losing the job over it, because it is inconsequential to his work.

The problem here is that going down your chosen path we create an environment in which people can lose their positions for views held 25 years ago, under a different moral environment (and just so you know, 25 years ago people weren't woke). The inevitable consequence of this is that people will be concerned that a perfectly acceptable view expressed now may come to be viewed harshly in the future and limit their speech accordingly, on the presumption that as we become ever more censorious, ever more puritan, that trend continues to the future. Do you have any idea how dangerous that is for humanity?
The problem here is that you overextend what I said by projecting it towards your expectations. The ground rule is clear: Being hateful towards people for immutable properties is not just any position. I am not advocating any further excalation towards arbitrary opinions.

If we limit the expression of ideas, even ones we find harmful, we lose so much intellectual diversity, and cut off access to so many people who might have contributed great things to the world. We close lines of inquiry, unable to touch them for fear of being judged to be x-ist, and miss out on key information that may even help the people that x might represent to overcome challenges they face.
Good luck stating you think that black people are worse people and trying to hold an academic position. Not all opinions are equal and hateful positions towards immutable characteristics of people is not within the realm of debatable political positions.

The most important thing however is that you set a precedent, and thus if the pendulum swings the other way you risk becoming a victim of that censorship. If you're ok with censoring the views of those who are compelled by religious belief to consider homosexuality a sin, then you are ok with holding your tongue and parrotting the accepted party line, even one you find abhorrent like 'homosexuals are evil and wrong', should that become the prevailing accepted opinion. You cannot have one without the other. If you insist on burning people for heresy, don't be surprised if one day someone lights a fire for you.
Refer to the above: "homosexuals are evil and wrong" cannot be put under the umbrella of outruling hateful behaviour towards people for immutable characteristics (that are not harmful towards others).
 
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#93
Everyone may hold whatever religious beliefs they want. I will tolerate them as a person, if they do not align with my views.
What is not fine is to say that it should be prohibited or that it is morally wrong, especially using such crass words as quoted in op.
This bit is particularly amusing, and cuts to the heart of your arguments. You are simply saying, "being religious is fine, I don't discriminate--just don't express those views in the public square, because their mere presence is harmful."

That is precisely what the professor was arguing with respect to upholding laws that forbid certain public recognitions of homosexual behavior while striking down any laws to would interfere in private affairs; meaning, you can have whatever identity or private behavior you like, but to some extent democratic processes may reasonably forbid various sexual arrangements from the public square for the good of the polity.

You are similarly imposing a specific and class-based moral framework upon the public in an authoritarian style, while pretending to be neutral--but for you, the harmful toxin to be regulated carefully is religion, not sexual behaviors--and this conflict makes all your arguments rather brazenly deceptive.
 
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#94
This bit is particularly amusing, and cuts to the heart of your arguments. You are simply saying, "being religious is fine, I don't discriminate--just don't express those views in the public square, because their mere presence is harmful."

That is precisely what the professor was arguing with respect to upholding laws that forbid certain public recognitions of homosexual behavior while striking down any laws to would interfere in private affairs; meaning, you can have whatever identity or private behavior you like, but to some extent democratic processes may reasonably forbid various sexual arrangements from the public square for the good of the polity.

You are similarly imposing a specific and class-based moral framework upon the public in an authoritarian style, while pretending to be neutral--but for you, the harmful toxin to be regulated carefully is religion, not sexual behaviors--and this conflict makes all your arguments rather brazenly deceptive.
Again, believing Yahwe (exists and) is opposed to homosexual sex is not the issue. You could believe that and still think it is not a moral issue to perform the act.
 
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#95
@Yoshi - so, oh holy one, what jobs may a person convicted of wrongthink apply for?

How is what I said an overextension? If a person is fired today for views expressed 25 years ago, how is it unreasonable to think that in 25 years someone may be fired for what they say today, and that they may choose to limit their speech accordingly? Do you not consider that this scenario would have a chilling effect or is this accusation a means of escaping from a quandary of your own making, to which you lack an adequate answer? Btw if being hateful towards people for immutable qualities is a bad position (and I would agree that it is) do you then also support firing people from their jobs for tweeting "fuck white guys", "kill white people", etc as is common among your allies?

I'm wondering where you get the idea that I would propose that black people are worse people. I hold no such view, but get the feeling that you're trying to frame me as a racist, and I consider that exceptionally rude. Further, the question here is what is hateful? Some would argue that treating a trans-woman as a man is hateful, and yet for doctors to provide the correct treatment it may be necessary that they do so. What if the position on what is hateful shifts to a point where a reasonable description of a person becomes hate speech? Consider how much of language has gone from being acceptable to becoming hate speech, especially in a framework in which the social justice movement chooses to redefine words.

So you have your catch-all of hatefulness, which allows you to dodge the issue entirely as you are prone to doingd, but you have failed to consider that society may move in a direction that compels you to express that view or be fired. How would you respond in that environment? Would you push back? Would you accept your fate and be fired? As I said, if you insist on burning people at the stake for heresy, you run the risk of someone lighting a fire for you. Or to put it another way, those who live by the sword die by the sword.

You're a lot like NI, in that you seem incapable of defending your position from a view of reason and logic, and that saddens me. We really do need a higher calibre of poster on that particular side of the fence as it would be far better exercise.
 
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Again, believing Yahwe (exists and) is opposed to homosexual sex is not the issue. You could believe that and still think it is not a moral issue to perform the act.
You continue to argue the merits of religion or homosexuality while dodging the continued issue of personal freedom, refusing in all cases to consider that one day you may find your own freedom similarly restricted if the political winds turn the other way.
 
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Absolutely dumbfounded how wide spread the desire to punish people for mere thoughts/beliefs has become in the past few years. Who cares about how this professor actually behaves in class, he merely has the wrong opinion and therefore does not deserve his job.

@YoshiYou're a lot like NI, in that you seem incapable of defending your position from a view of reason and logic, and that saddens me. We really do need a higher calibre of poster on that particular side of the fence as it would be far better exercise.
Completely disagree, we do NOT need posters defending "that particular side of the fence". It is a wholly indefensible position and represents all the worst aspects and possibilities of our authoritarian dystopian nightmare of a future should they get their way. They need to be rejected at every opportunity in as vocal a way as is possible when they express these thoughts.

Again, let's be perfectly clear here. If this professor was actually discriminating against any class of students in his lectures, I'm pretty sure basically everyone would be onboard with removing him from his position. That IS NOT the case here. He's a good professor with an earned tenure who, 25 years ago, wrote about an uncontroversial opinion academically.
 
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@bigedole - You don't want to see people punished for thoughts and beliefs, but don't want people like Yoshi/NI/AK here to defend that viewpoint. Sorry but that's every bit as bad as anything those guys have posted, equally authoritarian, and going against your first paragraph. You are right that we should argue the opposition case when they post, but to say that we should not have them here is a terrible idea. I strongly disagree with @Yoshi's posts but I will defend his right to make them, I just wish there was someone doing a better job of it.
 
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@bigedole - You don't want to see people punished for thoughts and beliefs, but don't want people like Yoshi/NI/AK here to defend that viewpoint. Sorry but that's every bit as bad as anything those guys have posted, equally authoritarian, and going against your first paragraph. You are right that we should argue the opposition case when they post, but to say that we should not have them here is a terrible idea. I strongly disagree with @Yoshi's posts but I will defend his right to make them, I just wish there was someone doing a better job of it.
Nowhere did I say I don't think they should be allowed to post... I'm not sure what you're going for here.