Barack Lesnar
Banned
Good lord, that list is just brutal. I cringed irl...
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Pachter Says Why Would Anybody Buy A Wii U? [Except to play Nintendo games]
- Thread starter Poetic.Injustice
- Start date
Good lord, that list is just brutal. I cringed irl...
EsotericManiac
Banned
X looks very promising
Linkstrikesback
Member
Oh boy, you went there.
Ok.
Minigame collections. Technically new franchises, but no-one buys a console for minigames barring the miracle that was wii sports.
So by definition it is like the other games. Not sure why you even mentioned it then?
The one game that is actually new. Still doesn't revolutionise anything with regards to open world, being fairly plain in actual gameplay. The story however is hilarious and makes it worth playing.
Because there is now ay doing hte same changes that hte second game made (+1 to characters, +2 to pikmin types) could ever be seen as incremental.
Miiverse is included ion a hardware level, I still don't see why it's listed as a positive for wind waker, like people were expecting it to not be included or something?
Dear lord, it's essentially mario party... 15? I don't even know what we're at now. This is literally the safest any game could ever be.
So what you're saying is "I don't know anything about this game, and despite the fact it's looks, smells and sounds like a level pack, it's not a level pack".
yeah, sure, ok. Oh, I guess it has new camera angles for noninteractive parts? wowee.
Right. Plays different. I can believe that. Or I could if the first... 3? Weren't the very definition of lazy games, with half of the first "winter olympics" game having the exact same, or very similar jestures for the different games, making a bunch of them different skins for the same minigame.
By god, a mario game where you can walk on walls? INNOVATION. Oh, wait.
But hey, you're right, at least sonic lost worlds looks good.
Gonzo The Great
Banned
This list is nothing to be proud about, and this is coming from a guy whose room is covered in Mario memorabilia.
RobFox64tm
Member
Ignoring the fact that calling out Nintendo's software as being "stale," "safe," and "boring" has nothing to do with what Pachter said, it's also a ridiculous argument considering that no other developer offers any games even remotely similar to Nintendo's efforts. In a sea of brown first person shooters, Nintendo works with more colorful genres largely ignored by everyone else. I'm not trying to defend Nintendo's short sighted efforts with attaining 3rd party support, or their hardware design philosophies; mistakes have definitely been made there, BUT the software is not the problem.
I understand Nintendo is in a platformer kick right now, and there's plenty of you out there who see that as some kind of development lull, but who else, outside of indies, is really putting their best foot forward in this genre? It's not really the point I'm trying to make anyway, but more that when I see ignorant "it's an expansion pack" claims, it's a pretty big hypocrisy considering how limited the industry as a whole is in introducing new ideas. (New characters and settings doesn't necessarily equal new ideas, btw.)
Nintendo has made plenty of mistakes, and has done so for many generations now, but the quality of their software has always been among the best in the industry, and remains so. To see so many attacking that aspect now is actually amusing to me, as a I know these critics will also be the ones with the greatest remorse if/when Nintendo is no longer in the game, because they'll realize then that no one else was making anything likewise.
I understand Nintendo is in a platformer kick right now, and there's plenty of you out there who see that as some kind of development lull, but who else, outside of indies, is really putting their best foot forward in this genre? It's not really the point I'm trying to make anyway, but more that when I see ignorant "it's an expansion pack" claims, it's a pretty big hypocrisy considering how limited the industry as a whole is in introducing new ideas. (New characters and settings doesn't necessarily equal new ideas, btw.)
Nintendo has made plenty of mistakes, and has done so for many generations now, but the quality of their software has always been among the best in the industry, and remains so. To see so many attacking that aspect now is actually amusing to me, as a I know these critics will also be the ones with the greatest remorse if/when Nintendo is no longer in the game, because they'll realize then that no one else was making anything likewise.
Aquamarine
Member
You forgot Nintendo x Joysound Wii Karaoke U...and Nintendo has at least partially financed Sonic: Lost World / Mario & Sonic.
There's no way Sega would make it a Wii U exclusive otherwise.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
The 3DS is still struggling outside of Japan even with a substantial price cut and tons of Nintendo games. The Gamecube didn't fly off shelves even though it launched at $199 with ample stock and Super Smash Bros Melee at its first holiday season. If people aren't going for the Wii U now, I don't think it's ever going to have much appeal to the expanded audience. It could achieve lifetime sales similar to the Gamecube, but even to accomplish that, Nintendo would have to cut the price substantially and release several heavy hitters to cause a real spike in sales.
Even then, Nintendo series aren't infallible. The Wii U launched with a NSMB game, one of Nintendo's biggest series. It did nothing for the platform. Believe it or not, the mass market may not be as interested in The Wonderful 101, Bayonetta 2, and Wind Waker HD as the average GAFer is.
Even then, Nintendo series aren't infallible. The Wii U launched with a NSMB game, one of Nintendo's biggest series. It did nothing for the platform. Believe it or not, the mass market may not be as interested in The Wonderful 101, Bayonetta 2, and Wind Waker HD as the average GAFer is.
diffusionx
Gold Member
I love DKCR and Tropical Freeze looks great. Not great enough to buy a Wii U, which is the problem. The thing is that I can buy a PS4 or X1 (or upgrade my PC) and have access to dozens of games from a variety of awesome developers. Or I can buy a Wii U and have access to the undoubtedly fine games from Nintendo, and nothing else. The value proposition is not there. I can get a Wii U as a second or third console, but then we are getting into time issues.
For one thing, I'm not even sure it's all that much money these days (neither MS nor Sony are designing new CPUs or GPUs from scratch), but Nintendo is a plenty big company with lots of resources. The GameCube was largely custom hardware that was more powerful than the custom hardware PS2, after all. Nintendo can do it, they just don't want to. Plus the GamePad is sucking all the air out of the room on the Wii U.
For one thing, I'm not even sure it's all that much money these days (neither MS nor Sony are designing new CPUs or GPUs from scratch), but Nintendo is a plenty big company with lots of resources. The GameCube was largely custom hardware that was more powerful than the custom hardware PS2, after all. Nintendo can do it, they just don't want to. Plus the GamePad is sucking all the air out of the room on the Wii U.
Only on NeoGAF would a 3D Mario, a remake of an awesome Zelda, a new Donkey Kong Country, an exclusive Sonic, a new IP and a sequel to Pikmin all in the first year of the console be "nothing to be proud about".
Oops, knew I forgot something. Thanks
On the contrary, "minigame collections", especially to the extent of these are very tantalising to the general consumer. Maybe not to the massively core gamer, but those who seldom play games but enjoy it with friends and/or family
It's karaoke. What do you actually expect?
It is a good game, yes
It isn't an "incremental change" when it changes the way you play the game.
Miiverse is included on the hardware level, yes. However, this is not the only way that Wind Waker utilises it. Considering it's a HD port, it's quite remarkable how seemlessly they've added this new feature
It's nothing like Mario Party, other than it having minigames.
What I'm saying is that we don't know much about the game, but it seems to be approaching levels differently to its predecessor.
That's not really the case. It just sounds to me you despise motion control.
All walls, not just patches of honey. It changes how you play every single level, not just ones that give you that powerup
I wouldn't say the 3DS is struggling. It's not doing amazingly, but it's not doing bad in any sense of the word. The Gamecube however is a prime example of how equal/greater power wouldn't make a difference.
BRocknRolla
Member
The general premise that people aren't buying Wii U's except for exclusives isn't wrong. It's why I bought mine full well knowing there wouldn't be much in the way of 3rd party support. (Part of me thought that maybe the best performing console multiplats for the last year would be on the Wii U, but that Idea was clearly a bust.) If Nintendo brings strong offerings with a new Zelda, Metroid, Smash. Mario Kart, and their other fantastic franchises, I'll consider it a worthwhile purchase.
That said, I don't know when we'll get those titles, and after playing Other M, Skyward Sword, and New Super Mario Brothers U it is fair to say Nintendo's bar of high quality is no longer guaranteed. They really need to bring some serious quality in their upcoming titles. Here's to hoping this holiday and Q1 of next year helps to reinstill some of my faith.
That said, I don't know when we'll get those titles, and after playing Other M, Skyward Sword, and New Super Mario Brothers U it is fair to say Nintendo's bar of high quality is no longer guaranteed. They really need to bring some serious quality in their upcoming titles. Here's to hoping this holiday and Q1 of next year helps to reinstill some of my faith.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
Struggling may have been the wrong word to use. Mediocre? It is flat over last year and barely selling better than the 360 in NA. It also doesn't seem to have much software presence in western markets outside of the occasional big Nintendo title.
Well Animal Crossing has given it a decent boost based on reports received, and I can promise you that after October this will no longer be an issue.
What was your issue with Skyward Sword and NSMBU? While Other M I get, Skyward Sword was a masterpiece and NSMBU, while very safe and potentially lazy, has some of the best 2D platforming levels I have ever played. The gameplay isn't the issue with NSMBU.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
Could you elaborate on this please?
To answer the question, the console is pretty cool and appealing for people with other consoles/PC who live with their families or are in a couple (like me) with a significant other/relatives that game moderately. Coop Nintendo land and NSMB:U has been great, and getting to spend time near the girlfriend rather than being stuck on the TV for more "hardcore" games she wouldn't be necessarily interested in is just as great.
Bonus points if you like a few Nintendo games and the other exclusives appeal to you and/or if you missed out on the Wii.
Right now this demographic is pretty specific and we can see that in wii u sales. There's also the issue that by the time Nintendo releases their whole catalogue of games which in theory covers quite a wide array of genres the console's negative perception would be already pretty much set in stone.
Bonus points if you like a few Nintendo games and the other exclusives appeal to you and/or if you missed out on the Wii.
Right now this demographic is pretty specific and we can see that in wii u sales. There's also the issue that by the time Nintendo releases their whole catalogue of games which in theory covers quite a wide array of genres the console's negative perception would be already pretty much set in stone.
Pokémon. Pokémon is every handheld consoles saving grace and it is coming out worldwide on October 2013. Not only that, it's the first ever 3D Pokémon RPG, something people have been clamouring for over the decades
The thing is, I don't think Nintendo can do it. Even losing $50 per system can add up and I'm not sure if Nintendo has many other revenue streams to offset that cost like MS and Sony. It was easier to be performance-competitive in the GC days than it is now. Instead of losing money per unit on competitive hardware and likely still lose out in sales and popularity, Nintendo probably thinks they have a better chance by making cheaper hardware with a different selling point to help them stand out in the pack of consoles. This worked with the Wii, but the Wii-U lacks that same appeal for a number of reasons.
IF Nintendo wished to have competitive hardware, they would have had to wait until this year to launch, which would put them in direct competition with Sony and MS this fall/winter. Unfortunately, there really was no easy route for Nintendo this gen. Not to say they couldn't have done many things better though.
Yep. You know how you see instead of little kids playing with their DS/DSLites 5-6 years ago, and now they are playing with their parents smartphones/tablets?
We are going to see a return of little kids playing with their new 3DS because of Pokemon, and parents will welcome it, since that means they get their phones back.
BRocknRolla
Member
NSMBU was a game I was very excited about initially but ended up feeling like a big letdown to me. I'm not saying it was bad game, but as you said, a lot of it felt very safe. I also felt like I'd played nearly this exact same game several times over. Nintendo can't keep rehashing this general game, assets, and style and keep selling it at full price. I think if it had been half the cost, and been sold more as a "new levels and HD" type of thing, I would have felt I got something out of it, but as it was, the whole experience felt very stale. Maybe my expectations were simply too high, but as a launch Mario game on a new platform, I wanted much more.
Before I get into Skyward Sword, I just want to say that I'm not interested in fighting about it, because I've fought about it before and it really is a matter of opinion. Clearly lots of, if not most, people enjoyed it, but there are definitely people who did not. My reasons are not irrational; I've played and beat every Zelda (With the exception of finishing Zelda II and Minish Cap) and Skyward Sword proved to be the most tedious Zelda experience I've ever had. Refighting the same boss repeatedly or flying back and forth through mostly empty skyboxes became a point a serious frustration for me. Certain item collection activities likewise just felt like padding for the sake of extending the game. I also felt like the dungeons were very hit and miss. Some were brilliant, like the the dessert with time manipulation, or the final dungeon's rotation and puzzle solving, but many just felt like generic block pushing, arrow shooting affairs. It left me wondering whether the well of creativity was starting to run dry. Lastly, I felt the motion controls were a huge detractor from the game. Some people clearly love them, but whether it was my controller having issues, the environment in which I played it, or the game being less precise than people claim, my sword fighting experience was almost universally terrible. This led to certain enemy encounters and boss fights happening over and over again, where victory often became dumb luck, and to the point that I was literally angry at the game. No amount of fiddling with my technique ever remedied things, and believe me I looked up information online and experimented for maybe over a hour one evening to try to figure it out, and straight through to the final battle, I never felt I really had control over my character's fighting. But even without the control issues, the game was uninspired. The art style was fine, but felt like a lesser version of Windwaker (I'd prefer them to go all the way if they want to go with a flatter look), and the stories of the characters and missions in the game didn't feel substantial the way they did is previous iterations. Ultimately, while we can disagree on control or other subjective things, when I consider that "bar of high quality" I referred to earlier, Skyward Sword ends up being only a middling Zelda title at best for me. It's not the worst Zelda, but it certainly doesn't hold a candle to things like A Link to the Past, OoT, or Majora's Mask.
Edit: Feel free to respond, or rebut, or whatever, but I probably won't answer simply because it drags the thread off topic to get into a debate over the merits of an old game. If it matters to you a lot for whatever reason, you can pm me and we can discuss it there.
I wouldn't call it negative reception. More like, no reception at all. Many people don't have a clue what the Wii u is, partly thanks to the god awful name, and partly because Nintendo is not very good with marketing.
Wii U has been on the market for a year now; when are Pikmin, Bayonetta 2, Wonderful 101, Zelda, X, Metroid and Mario releasing? All those titles, except possibly Wonderful 101 and Pikmin would be system sellers for me. Wonderful 101 was, but it doesn't look that interesting anymore -- I'm still quite interested in Pikmin. X and Bayonetta 2 look incredible, Metroid, Zelda and Mario game would be awesome, depending on what kind of games they are.
Nintendo only titles wouldn't be a problem, at all, if they actually released titles for it. They've only released a couple so far; certainly not enough to warrant a system purchase.
diffusionx
Gold Member
For one thing, Sony doesn't have that many other revenue streams. The only thing propping up that company right now is life insurance and one-time real estate sales. They are moving in this PS4 direction because they feel like it is the right thing to do to grow their business - you need to spend money to make money, after all.
And that's really my point. Nintendo may *think* they have a better chance with the strategy they went in, but there's plenty of reasons to believe that thinking is wrong.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
are you serious?
I agree with him. What's wrong with that lineup? Those games look great. I'm excited to buy a Wii U in December, after they've all come out.
Well, you said first party. I was going by your metric, but if you want to go by Nintendo published third-party titles, the yes, Wonderful 101 and Lego City could be added to that.
No. It isn't getting current gen games because the current gen is over. Late to the party syndrome.
That's an apples and oranges comparison, in my opinion, but I still think that people would've bought the Wii in droves. It was the nature of it that sold it. That and Nintendo somehow marketed the thing incredibly well, which is unlike them.
The Wii was a curious oddity, and its low price let people satisfy their curiosity without much risk. It captured both skeptical gamers and people who'd never bought a console before. I believe if it'd launched at $399, the 360's launch price, those two groups would've decided it was safer to remain curious.
As far as exclusives go it's a reasonable roster. I'm sad MK isn't available though. And the list of non exclusive games is almost non existent.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
MK missing the holidays is such a dagger for them. They really really needed a blockbuster like that for Xmas season, especially with the new competition.
staticneuron
Member
megabytecr
Member
I don't care what anyone says, I love my Wii U and the coming games look very promising
I could spend a lot of time with just
Pikmin 3
W101
Sonic Lost World
WatchDogs
CoD Ghosts (hopefully)
SM3DWorld: this looks like a safe bet to get it out fast, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt until I see the whole game.
Lol at the people who bash Nintendo for not innovating in a shooter heavy brownish games industry.
I love Nintendo because I can play different types of games while also catering for my kids and the wife.
Pikmin 3 after 10 years
3D Mario: 1 or 2 on each console
Zelda: 1 or 2 on each console
DKCR was brought back after years, now 1 on Wii and we will get 1 on Wii U
Fire Emblem: 1 per console
LoZ WW HD: a remake, everyone did this in the current gen, looks amazing, and I did not play the GC game so will pick it up some time.
New Games:
Lego City Undercover brings open world to Lego games with hilarious story and dialogue. Insanely packed with content, could get 100 hours to get everything.
W101: looks charming and so unique, for the hardcore crowd.
Mario Kart: yes more of the same with little innovations but 1 per console, though the Wii U one looks amazing.
SSB: 1 per console. Same as above.
NSMB: they released 1 per console but I think that releasing NSMB2 so close to the launch Wii U game NSMBU was a mistake.
Wii Party/Mario Party: they are mini game collections but they are built under the strengths of the systems. As much hate as mini games get, there are gamers with families or friends that come over, so this is much appreciated.
Going to cut it here.
I could spend a lot of time with just
Pikmin 3
W101
Sonic Lost World
WatchDogs
CoD Ghosts (hopefully)
SM3DWorld: this looks like a safe bet to get it out fast, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt until I see the whole game.
Lol at the people who bash Nintendo for not innovating in a shooter heavy brownish games industry.
I love Nintendo because I can play different types of games while also catering for my kids and the wife.
Pikmin 3 after 10 years
3D Mario: 1 or 2 on each console
Zelda: 1 or 2 on each console
DKCR was brought back after years, now 1 on Wii and we will get 1 on Wii U
Fire Emblem: 1 per console
LoZ WW HD: a remake, everyone did this in the current gen, looks amazing, and I did not play the GC game so will pick it up some time.
New Games:
Lego City Undercover brings open world to Lego games with hilarious story and dialogue. Insanely packed with content, could get 100 hours to get everything.
W101: looks charming and so unique, for the hardcore crowd.
Mario Kart: yes more of the same with little innovations but 1 per console, though the Wii U one looks amazing.
SSB: 1 per console. Same as above.
NSMB: they released 1 per console but I think that releasing NSMB2 so close to the launch Wii U game NSMBU was a mistake.
Wii Party/Mario Party: they are mini game collections but they are built under the strengths of the systems. As much hate as mini games get, there are gamers with families or friends that come over, so this is much appreciated.
Going to cut it here.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but kids have their own smartphones.
Oh absolutely - For $399 or less you could have bought a traditional gaming experience in an Xbox 360 with network capability, better graphics, and a traditional controller layout.
Still, if all things were considered equal and the only difference was that the Wii gave you motion controls (as an option - Gamecube and Pro Controllers were still available) I think the Wii would've sold much better. It wouldn't have been a castaway with regard to multiplatform games.
I'm curious what promotional deals Nintendo will offer this holiday. They can't possibly stick with the same two SKUs and price point.
Personally, some new colours would probably do well to separate Nintendo from the pack. PS4/X1 being black doesn't help the black/white WiiU stand out. A red/blue/orange or something might be an easy way to promote a new SKU/bundle at the same time showing they are more focused on families/kids.
We need to all stay grounded and realize GAF, as well as the game-journalism-world, is run by 18-35 year old males. WiiU is tanking and that world is loving it. We should remember that Nintendo is a family-friendly company who shows its muscle over the holidays.
If one was looking for a console for a 6-14 year old, or even a console that I could play local multiplayer with friends/family, isn't WiiU the absolute best option this holiday?
Personally, some new colours would probably do well to separate Nintendo from the pack. PS4/X1 being black doesn't help the black/white WiiU stand out. A red/blue/orange or something might be an easy way to promote a new SKU/bundle at the same time showing they are more focused on families/kids.
We need to all stay grounded and realize GAF, as well as the game-journalism-world, is run by 18-35 year old males. WiiU is tanking and that world is loving it. We should remember that Nintendo is a family-friendly company who shows its muscle over the holidays.
If one was looking for a console for a 6-14 year old, or even a console that I could play local multiplayer with friends/family, isn't WiiU the absolute best option this holiday?
For that small subset of consumers, sure.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
So a $350 U is a better choice than a $200-$250 Xbox 360 or PS3 with a 250-500GB HDD, larger online communities, and a plethora of games in every genre that can be found at a fraction of the price of most U games?
I love my U, but no way would I steer someone in the wrong direction if they wanted my opinion on a good console to purchase for their kid.
TheChocolateWar
Member
Whether or not a game is on a next generation system doesn't mean its all new assets. Cross-generation ports are indications of that. And its not so much that it reduces the impact of what you said, its that you should use a different metric. I would focus more on whether or not new assets had been used than new gameplay mechanics. Cause once you start doing that, as a PC gamer I would say that ain't worth the full price.
Well, to start, I'm of the opinion there is a guaranteed price-drop coming this holiday for WiiU. I'd put a ban bet on the fact there will be a better deal on the system this holiday, and not one set by the retailers.
I would also wonder what family/kid friendly games are on Playstation or Xbox? That doesn't mean Call of Duty or Halo. What are you going to play with them that can top Mario, DK, Sonic, Sonic/Mario Olympics, and some others like Wii Party and Wonderful101. All of these games have local multiplayer/co-op. Not to mention the fact that WiiU has Mario Kart and Smash Bros. on the horizon.
occasional, it already has plenty of excelent games...
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
The 360 and PS3 certainly have them. Lego games, Sonic the Hedgehog, Just Dance...they're most certainly are plenty of family games available offer 8 years on the market.
You're also a little off if you think most preteen and teenage boys are cool with the Toadstool kingdom. At that point they want to play what their friends are playing. They want Call of Duty on the system their friends own. They want the violent games, and if you think most parents give a crap that their 14 year old is playing a profanity laced game, you'd be surprised.
walking fiend
Member
There is no reason to buy other consoles except to play 3rd party games.
My time spent on Nintendo games this generation has been an order of magnitude more than what I have spent on other HD games in total.
My time spent on Nintendo games this generation has been an order of magnitude more than what I have spent on other HD games in total.
The Wii's library was lackluster at best imo compared to other consoles, I remember dry spells that lasted months and months. That was a successful console, the Wii U isn't successful, even less third party support. Patcher is right, #nintendoomed
Sticking exclusively to the 3DS this generation for nintendo games, right until the end when the Wii U is cheap as chips to clean up on them first party titles.
Sticking exclusively to the 3DS this generation for nintendo games, right until the end when the Wii U is cheap as chips to clean up on them first party titles.
JerryThePredator
Banned
Sure
Compare Wii support to that of the PS360, came out ages after the 360 and around the same time as the PS3 yet they had to end its life cycle way before due to support being dry as a damn tumbleweed. The Wii U couldn't even reinvigorate the market, publishers didn't want to know as they were burnt before. People bought Wii sports and nothing else on that console. Lowest third party software attachment rate ever.
Wii U is struggling harder than the Vita in Japan, complete bomba.
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