Paid mods looking to make a comeback

Jun 29, 2013
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Hungary
#1
I mean Valve said they want to revisit it, so this shouldn't be a surprise. Might happen sooner than later based on these recent updates. Yesterday:

https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1446262&p=50176499&viewfull=1#post50176499

https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1446262&p=50176541&viewfull=1#post50176541

Hey I have an item on the Gmod workshop on Steam. I just went to the page and this was above the subscribe button:


What is this and why
It's showing on every workshop item for every game,

[t]http://i.imgur.com/Tia6QO6.png[/t]

[t]http://i.imgur.com/9P6MzFu.png[/t]

Paid mods are coming back bois
A month ago: https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1446262&p=49978091&viewfull=1#post49978091

Valve just added a ton of strings to the STS related to paid workshop mods, detailing stuff like author controlled monetization, profit splitting and more
 
Dec 6, 2012
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#2
Good. I like the idea in concept, but the original was a half backed model. As long as the publisher isn't picking up a huge percentage again and there's some good way of copyright ID with a good challenging mechanism, then I'm all for it.

How tone deaf the Skyrim mod launch was doesn't fill me with confidence.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Mar 25, 2006
26,213
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www.wasfuersohr.blogspot.com
#4
Good. I like the idea in concept, but the original was a half backed model. As long as the publisher isn't picking up a huge percentage again and there's some good way of copyright ID with a good challenging mechanism, then I'm all for it.

How tone deaf the Skyrim mod launch was doesn't fill me with confidence.
Another issue is the accountability of mod creators. What if a mod doesnt work with the next version anymore or if a mod is incompatible with another one you already bought and then cant use both? Or what if a mod issue occurs after 2 hours of playing? Or a game with a million mods, where mods use contents of other mod creators without permission.. and you bought it. Such a mess.

I like the implications for huge mods as well, but I think it shouldnt be incentivized this much, so that everyone and his mother will try to get a paid mod up. Guess we'll know more once they unveiled their current plans.
 
Apr 14, 2010
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#11
If valve don't get there first, Microsoft will beat them to the punch because I'm 100% sure paid mods will be their strategy to monotize pc gaming (paid online is a dead end).

Like it or not, it'll probably end up working out too. As such, I'd rather valve get in first.
 
Oct 6, 2006
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#12
it deserves a real shot, and modders deserve a chance to monetize their creations if they decide to do so. the skyrim launch was botched for many reasons, but the core idea is still very relevant and can lead to a lot of neat stuff I think. the emphasis being placed on the choice for the creator to charge or not

personally though I feel the best solution would to simply incentivize donations by making it a super easy, one button solution at the same location where you download the mod.

but to think all mods should be free by default is just kind of hilarious
 
Jun 5, 2013
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#13
The spirit of modding is going to take a beating from monetization. This hurts the community. Modders are already incentivized to create content because they love the games they work on. Many of them are also building portfolios to break into the game industry, so it helps that way too. I don't understand how anyone can see this move as more than a cash grab by Valve. Yeah, I know - modders deserve to get paid! - but I worry about how this will affect modding in the future. I know I'd be much less likely to mod my games if I had to pay to use the best mods.
 
Jul 31, 2014
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#14
If valve don't get there first, Microsoft will beat them to the punch because I'm 100% sure paid mods will be their strategy to monotize pc gaming (paid online is a dead end).

Like it or not, it'll probably end up working out too. As such, I'd rather valve get in first.
How long until Workshop mods can be torrented, I wonder?

The sole reason why that's never really been a thing is mainly because it's never been required. If the only way to get it is to pay, that stuff is going on a tracker real soon.
 

dragonfart28

Gab Ambassador
Jun 12, 2009
4,164
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#15
I think we're going to find that there is actually a market here even if we don't like the idea.

Also, a lot of existing DLC is really just a mod of the game that it's building on.
 

Toma

Let me show you through these halls, my friend, where treasures of indie gaming await...
Mar 25, 2006
26,213
0
0
www.wasfuersohr.blogspot.com
#16
If valve don't get there first, Microsoft will beat them to the punch because I'm 100% sure paid mods will be their strategy to monotize pc gaming (paid online is a dead end).

Like it or not, it'll probably end up working out too. As such, I'd rather valve get in first.
Steam already has the monopoly. As much as I dislike Microsofts recent PC efforts, Steam is the one who needs a competitor.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Jul 30, 2009
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Western Australia
#17
...so this is why they banned people for downloading mods crippling the mod scene of GTA 5?



I don't like Rockstar anymore. At all - almost every single thing they've done since coming out with GTA 5 has been bad. What the hell happened to them?
It's a GTAV asset pack for Garry's Mod. GTAV itself has no Workshop support.
 
Apr 8, 2014
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#18
Another issue is the accountability of mod creators. What if a mod doesnt work with the next version anymore or if a mod is incompatible with another one you already bought and then cant use both? Or what if a mod issue occurs after 2 hours of playing? Or a game with a million mods, where mods use contents of other mod creators without permission.. and you bought it. Such a mess.

I like the implications for huge mods as well, but I think it shouldnt be incentivized this much, so that everyone and his mother will try to get a paid mod up. Guess we'll know more once they unveiled their current plans.
This is why Skyrim's super-modular modding nature was especially ill suited for Valve's approach. And the oversimplified nature of the Workshop also makes things exponentially worse. Worst is probably the game launcher auto-updating any installed mods without asking you. That leaves a high risk of flat out breaking your game.
 
Jul 31, 2014
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#19
Steam already has the monopoly. As much as I dislike Microsofts recent PC efforts, Steam is the one who needs a competitor.
This is going to be really difficult. EA tried, and made an awesome client that has many features Steam doesn't with Origin. They had refunds first, and you could refund EA's games (which is what people mainly buy on Origin in fairness)
They have great support, which Steam is blasted for to this day.

Thing is, gamers don't care if there's just 5 good games there. Microsoft can't make a story with just Quantum Break on it. And just like EA, their reputation with gamers is at a negative percentage. Good luck making a store with no goodwill.

Oh shit, really? Well I'm a dumb doodooface then.
 

JaseC

gave away the keys to the kingdom.
Jul 30, 2009
73,803
6
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Western Australia
#22
This is going to be really difficult. EA tried, and made an awesome client that has many features Steam doesn't with Origin. They had refunds first, and you could refund anything for any reason. They have great support, which Steam is blasted for to this day.
When EA introduced refunds, the policy applied only to EA's own games. It's since expanded to a small number of third-party titles, but that's still not anything and everything.
 
Dec 5, 2009
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Mount Airy, MD
#25
I've said it before, and I'll say it again now: paid mods will never work.

That's not to say that no one can (or should) pay for mods, but rather that the widespread monetization of them just isn't ever going to work.

There's too many moving parts, too many elements dependent on too many parties, and quite frankly, not enough gain (and protection) for the customers.
 
Jul 13, 2007
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Finland
#27
The spirit of modding is going to take a beating from monetization. This hurts the community. Modders are already incentivized to create content because they love the games they work on. Many of them are also building portfolios to break into the game industry, so it helps that way too. I don't understand how anyone can see this move as more than a cash grab by Valve. Yeah, I know - modders deserve to get paid! - but I worry about how this will affect modding in the future. I know I'd be much less likely to mod my games if I had to pay to use the best mods.
So basically you say that you want the modders to get paid but you don't want to be the one who pays.

Paid mods is a great idea, even if the Skyrim pitch failed it's totally worth re-visiting.
 
Mar 18, 2015
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#28
Is that even legal? I doubt you are allowed to use assets from one game, even if its just for a free mod.
Garry's Mod has user-ripped asset packs for all kinds of games and characters. Even ones not on Steam.


I don't think paid mods can work under Valve with their laissez-faire style. It's an idea that needs CONSTANT monitoring and approval to avoid lawsuits.
 
May 23, 2013
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#29
Good.

It's a great idea that has had abysmal execution and control in the past. If they can curate the paid content and have probationary periods to allow for screening of the mods as being from appropriate authors, legit content etc with the right recourse options and refundability, there is a lot of opertunity to help improve the ability for modders to work on content and expand them far further than they could without income.

And obviously free content and access to mods is unaffected, as seen with the current Dota paid mod ideas
 
Aug 25, 2012
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#33
Garry's Mod has user-ripped asset packs for all kinds of games and characters. Even ones not on Steam.


I don't think paid mods can work under Valve with their laissez-faire style. It's an idea that needs CONSTANT monitoring and approval to avoid lawsuits.
Strongly agree. Great idea but Valve is the last company I trust in handling this properly.
 
Jul 31, 2014
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#35
So basically you say that you want the modders to get paid but you don't want to be the one who pays.
This is true for most gamers on PC. It's usually a plain hassle to purchase mods and years and years of going to modbanana dot org or what-have-you and sit through some timer to download mods for The Sims 2 hasn't exactly molded the people to suddenly pay for mods. You can't just expect a certain mentality to grow spontaneously.


They are kinda already thanks to Nexusmods.
I know XCOM2 mod creators get lots of requests from pirates to put their mods up there.
What Steam says is a DLC isn't always foolproof either. You could torrent every single DLC for Borderlands 2 and just put it in your game files and it would totally work with your Steam copy, same with Witcher 3 DLC files from the GOG version of the game.
Wouldn't be surprised if the Workshop hinges on some code that would be trivial for a hardcore cracker to work with, I guess time will tell. The Steam Cloud connection is the difficult part, but as soon as you're working with downloadable files on a physical drive it's all pretty simple to just copy over.
 
May 23, 2013
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#39
Garry's Mod has user-ripped asset packs for all kinds of games and characters. Even ones not on Steam.


I don't think paid mods can work under Valve with their laissez-faire style. It's an idea that needs CONSTANT monitoring and approval to avoid lawsuits.
There is nothing wrong with this as long as it is free and unmonetised. Of course, if it were to be paid, this could not happen without consent / profit sharing etc with the original content / asset authors. This is why curation is needed for such monetisation, as well as a the ability to properly report / screen paid mods as they evolve to ensure they are still compliant and fairly using assets / content. This is where things get messy even in a curated system, but such is true for all user generated content - eg youtube
 
Apr 6, 2015
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England
#40
Don't think Valve can do it properly to be honest. So far they have taken a Laissez-Faire attitude to everything. With Mods I personally believe they need to step up and do some quality control, hold Modderd accountable to fixing Mods if broken by patch. Also the Mods can't be like last time, they need to be new mods that are more than just weapons and skins. Maybe a expansive quest or completely new mechanics, only way I think people would support the idea.
 
Mar 18, 2015
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#43
There is nothing wrong with this as long as it is free and unmonetised. Of course, if it were to be paid, this could not happen without consent / profit sharing etc with the original content / asset authors. This is why curation is needed for such monetisation, as well as a the ability to properly report / screen paid mods as they evolve to ensure they are still compliant and fairly using assets / content. This is where things get messy even in a curated system, but such is true for all user generated content - eg youtube
Valve isn't the type of company to make it work then. Their structure is completely against strict rules and regulations of such a program. That's why the last time they tried this it blew up in their faces.
 
May 23, 2013
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#44
I like the idea, but it will take some extremely robust implementation to work without issues.
Precisely! It will be a long term endeavour to even get right. No matter what happens, there will assuredly be issues that come and go. That certainly isn't a reason to avoid the idea however.
 
Apr 14, 2010
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#45
I've said it before, and I'll say it again now: paid mods will never work.

That's not to say that no one can (or should) pay for mods, but rather that the widespread monetization of them just isn't ever going to work.

There's too many moving parts, too many elements dependent on too many parties, and quite frankly, not enough gain (and protection) for the customers.
I think this pretty much ignores the amount of people who are willing to pay to play online, pay for extra maps and even pay to do the equivalent of incrementing a value in a memory location in their own computer.

People pay for shit. If it is well done and easy to just click a mod people will pay for that too.
 
Nov 14, 2014
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#46
This could be one of the reason why Fallout 4 mod tools keep getting delayed. It wouldn't surprise me and this would once again create similar sort of CF since Fallout 4 akin to Skyrim is not a good game for that due to engine limitations, mod conflicts, steam mod auto-updates, etc...
 
May 23, 2013
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#48
Valve isn't the type of company to make it work then. Their structure is completely against strict rules and regulations of such a program. That's why the last time they tried this it blew up in their faces.
This is under the assumption Valve does everything - which they most likely won't. Tooling and systems to get this to work are on Valve's part, but they would likely start with select developers curating for their own games and working things out. The current Dota "paid mods" idea, is really sound. The fact that their attempt has already been called into question and been acted upon is likely to be the way things shape in terms of identifying legit content / fair usage. Only a select minority of mods will be able to go the paid route, and only with significant reason to do so in this system Dota uses, which is massively different to the previous paid mods idea. In other games as an acutal system, I'd still expect things to differ from this monthly idea
 
Jan 12, 2013
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#49
I've said it before, and I'll say it again now: paid mods will never work.

That's not to say that no one can (or should) pay for mods, but rather that the widespread monetization of them just isn't ever going to work.

There's too many moving parts, too many elements dependent on too many parties, and quite frankly, not enough gain (and protection) for the customers.
Sums up my feelings well. I don't think anyone would have any complaints about financing large-scale modding projects, like Skywind for instance. However, mods that only involve minor UI changes or adding unbalanced items to the game world are hardly worth the initial novelty, not to mention real money. However, at least in the system there was, there was no incentive to maintain a free marketplace when a mod changed from being a mutation of the original game, into a commodity. I hope Valve put a lot of thought into how they're going to approach this again.
 
Jul 31, 2014
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#50
Precisely! It will be a long term endeavour to even get right. No matter what happens, there will assuredly be issues that come and go. That certainly isn't a reason to avoid the idea however.
You will need a complete revolution of the landscape, one which I personally wish would happen but probably never will in a long time. In the current state of things I could name ten different reasons why paid mods wouldn't work just with the current state of Steam in mind alone. It's like introducing an animal to a completely different ecological system, it just wouldn't work out.

Technology would have to change, and the mindset of the consumers would have to change as well. Hard to do in such a complacent industry.