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PAL Charts - Week 9, 2017

I'm 10 hours in and I'm right next to the first tallneck location, still have a bunch of side quests and missions to do around it before I go in there.

I think it took me 8 hours to get out of the first map. There's just so much stuff to do and since sidequests only show up on the map once your close enough, I'm obsessed about checking every part of the map before moving on.

14 hours and just did the first cauldron as soon as it unlocked.
though playing on very hard may have something to do with it , im coming for that sawtooth ass .
the sequel needs to let you control more than one and have each of them be mountable. oh and maybe a less op and a more in depth melee system
 
14 hours and just did the first cauldron as soon as it unlocked.
though playing on very hard may have something to do with it , im coming for that sawtooth ass .
the sequel needs to let you control more than one and have each of them be mountable. oh and maybe a less op and a more in depth melee system

A real shame you can't ride the chocobo.
 

Ashtar

Member
I tried to do an avatar bet with someone about hzd beating Zelda too bad they never responded
Great showing for horizon,goof showing for Zelda and okay showing for switch
Also poring out done forms boy raylan
 

ethomaz

Banned
Well I found unexpected some guys thinking Zelda could beat Horizon when I didn't expect even Switch sales beat it.

Expect for Switch hardware (I predicted ~130k) I guess I come close with Horizon (~150k) and Zelda (~100k).
 
There's a difference between posting a wrong prediction and having a history of hating something

I think there's also a difference between 'taking into account series history vs. new IP, critical reception etc. I believe Zelda will come out on top' and 'OMG Sony are SHOOK, Zelda is going to kill Horizon, anyone who thinks differently is crazy' predicitons.
 

timberger

Member
Wow, never thought Horizon would beat Zelda. Legit shook over here! Well deserved, game is excellent.

lol at goalpost moving going on though.

I think the ban was harsh. Are we that thin skinned that we can't handle being called out?

Yeah, I'm a tad confused, considering stuff like that Uncharted 3 review thread post that is quoted and linked constantly on here is celebrated as one of the greatest posts in Neogaf history, and it was much worse than the first post in this thread.
 
This. Funny to see these posts alongside every explanation under the sun as to why it happened.

One look at past Nintendo launches said everyhing you would need to know. Were people expecting less than 100k for Horizon?

Yeah, I'm a tad confused, considering stuff like that Uncharted 3 review thread post that is quoted and linked constantly on here is celebrated as one of the greatest posts in Neogaf history, and it was much worse than the first post in this thread.

It's the literal definition of shit post. No purpose other than to stir shitand distract from the threads actual purpose.
 
There's a difference between posting a wrong prediction and having a history of hating something

I know that. I'm referring to the latter as something I see no problem with calling someone out on.

The post with all the wrong prediction wasn't bad either though and not uncommon, but the thread derailing potential was too high.
 
One look at past Nintendo launches said everyhing you would need to know. Were people expecting less than 100k for Horizon?

Oh I'm sorry, was 100k guaranteed for Horizon? News to me. I forgot all the other tons of new Sony IPs this generation that opened to 100k and more.
 
Oh I'm sorry, was 100k guaranteed for Horizon? News to me. I forgot all the other tons of new Sony IPs this generation that opened to 100k and more.

Nothing is guaranteed. But I was pretty positive the game which is being positioned as the largest new IP Sony has launched on the PS4 wasgoing to do well. I don't get the shock. Lots of PS4 exclusive have posted strong sales and this is one of the biggest ecxlusives.
 
Nothing is guaranteed. But I was pretty positive the game which is being positioned as the largest new IP Sony has launched on the PS4 wasgoing to do well. I don't get the shock. Lots of PS4 exclusive have posted strong sales and this is one if the biggest ecxlusives.

I could list most of Sony's new IPs this gen (and just all IPs in general from Sony) for you and what sales they opened too.

Hint: Most of them aren't remotely close to 100k, let alone above that.
 
Oh I'm sorry, was 100k guaranteed for Horizon? News to me. I forgot all the other tons of new Sony IPs this generation that opened to 100k and more.

I don't think we can compare Horizon to Gravity Rush or Tearaway, I think Sonys marketing spend assured us of that.

It's fantastic for the dev and the game in Ge real uts sold so well but it isn't exactly a surprise. It was a stick on to do big numbers.
 

Donos

Member
A game with a female protagonist, by a developer who have worked on a different genre. I doubt anyone could have said it with certainty that Horizon will do that well.

I doubt GG games have strong launches in UK or anywhere in the world.

Did not disagree with your post, was just saying that maybe GR2 wasn't the best example since that is rather a niche (anime) title.
 
Oh I'm sorry, was 100k guaranteed for Horizon? News to me. I forgot all the other tons of new Sony IPs this generation that opened to 100k and more.

Being a new IP there was no direct precedent, but looking at the response to similar games, such as the Far Cry series and the Witcher 3 and then the game getting good review scores is far more relevant to predicting where Horizon would land than thinking because it's a Sony game that Gravity Rush 2, Tearaway or even Bloodborne were the more natural guides.
 
I don't think we can compare Horizon to Gravity Rush or Tearaway, I think Sonys marketing spend assured us of that.

It's fantastic for the dev and the game in Ge real uts sold so well but it isn't exactly a surprise. It was a stick on to do big numbers.

Yea, we can't compare it to Bloodborne either. Or Ratchet & Clank. No, we can't compare it to anything really, right?

But that's why it's totally expected it would open above 100k and outsell Zelda. Because it did so, now retroactively we can pretend it was bound to happen.
 
I could list most of Sony's new IPs this gen (and just all IPs in general from Sony) for you and what sales they opened too.

Hint: Most of them aren't remotely close to 100k, let alone above that.

Please go ahead and do it. Because the numbers will not contradict what I said. The Horizon is the biggest new IP they have dropped. The other IPs they have launched have been well received by the market. I expected over 100k for this game. Based on past Nintendo launches I did not expect Zelda to approach 100k.

I said that in last weeks thread. So what is your actual argument? That no one should have expected Horizon to perform well?
 

ethomaz

Banned
Oh I'm sorry, was 100k guaranteed for Horizon? News to me. I forgot all the other tons of new Sony IPs this generation that opened to 100k and more.
Compare receptions and you will have your answer.

With Horizon reception expect less than 100k was harsh.
 
Please go ahead and do it. Because the numbers will not contradict what I said. The Horizon is the biggest new IP they have dropped. The other IPs they have launched have been well received by the market. I expected over 100k for this game. Based on past Nintendo launches I did not expect Zelda to approach 100k.

I said that in last weeks thread. So what is your actual argument? That no one should have expected Horizon to perform well?

No, my argument is that people are being retroactively reductive as to paint Horizon's success as guaranteed and especially in comparison to Zelda (e.g. "Of course it would sell more, bigger userbase").

I expected Horizon to sell well too. But there is a difference between personal predictions that a game will open to 100k or more and general expectations that it will do so.

The latter is generally reserved for known quantities (e.g sequels) and not new IPs that are untested without any other market data to support the contention.
 

vivekTO

Member
I don't think we can compare Horizon to Gravity Rush or Tearaway, I think Sonys marketing spend assured us of that.

It's fantastic for the dev and the game in Ge real uts sold so well but it isn't exactly a surprise. It was a stick on to do big numbers.

If anyone has paid attention the marketing only ramped up in last Couple of months , that is after the positive internal reviews and strong confidence shown by the management.
Its not like the Huge marketing led to people to buy this game , when games like nioh , yakuza , resident Evil 7 are out there.

Again this is for Everyone:

It is marketed heavily because its a good(Great) game according to the internal review, not the other way around.
And i can't really comment on the Large Userbase notion going around in here.
 
No, my argument is that people are being retroactively reductive as to paint Horizon's success as guaranteed and especially in comparison to Zelda (e.g. "Of course it would sell more, bigger userbase").

I expected Horizon to sell well too. But there is a difference between personal predictions that a game will open to 100k or more and general expectations that it will do so.

The latter is generally reserved for known quantities (e.g sequels) and not new IPs that are untested without any other market data to support the contention.
The graphics look amazing,it's open world and from one of the bigger Sony studios. I personally wouldn't have bet on it being huge, but it's easy to see why some people would.
 
No, my argument is that people are being retroactively reductive as to paint Horizon's success as guaranteed and especially in comparison to Zelda (e.g. "Of course it would sell more, bigger userbase").

I expected Horizon to sell well too. But there is a difference between personal predictions that a game will open to 100k or more and general expectations that it will do so.

The latter is generally reserved for known quantities (e.g sequels) and not new IPs that are untested without any other market data to support the contention.

So you domt want to post all those exclusive sales now?

What ever everyone elses arguments were is irrelevant to what I said. Based on the games reception, marketing and mass appeal (openn world rpg) I was expecting over 100k. I said looking at past launches for Nintendo software it wasn't a hard prediction. I stand by that.

I dunno whether it just personally bothers you or w/e but yes install base matters. Unless you expected Switch to be the best launch in Nintendo UK history you probably were not going to expect >=100k for Zelda.

So your argument is "well your prediction wasnt everyone elses prediction so shut up"?
 

MisterR

Member
Hey im featured in it and even I feel like a ban's a bit harsh lol. It is kinda funny how horribly wrong that first quote is..

Yep, this is a sales thread. If people are gonna throw out opinions and some of them were especially dismissive, then they should be prepared to see their own quotes thrown back at them sometimes. That's a very harsh ban for sure.
 
So you domt want to post all those exclusive sales now?

What ever everyone elses arguments were is irrelevant to what I said. Based on the games reception, marketing and mass appeal (openn world rpg) I was expecting over 100k. I said looking at past launches for Nintendo software it wasn't a hard prediction. I stand by that.

I dunno whether it just personally bothers you or w/e but yes install base matters. Unless you expected Switch to be the best launch in Nintendo UK history you probably were not going to expect >=100k for Zelda.

So your argument is "well your prediction wasnt everyone elses prediction so shut up"?

I was just looking up the data:

Uncharted 4: 192k
No Man's Sky (not a Sony IP but I'll include it): ~115k
Infamous: Second Son: ~70k
TLG: >23k
Bloodborne: ~43k
Ratchet & Clank: 38k
Order 1886: 39k
Nathan Drake Collection: 39k

Yes, install base matters but not so much for the launch comparison of Zelda vs. Horizon. Zelda is expected to be a near 1.0 attach ratio for the Switch so it's bound to sell near or close to the number of Switch's shipped/sold. That means comparatively, the bar that Horizon has to outsell Zelda gets higher depending on how much Switch was shipped (we know now it was about 80k).

It's by no means a stretch of the imagination to think that Zelda (Switch + Wii U) would outsell Horizon. As to your last line, no, it's not. You yourself said, "were people expecting less than 100k for Horizon?"
 
Horizon is a complete brand new IP and only available on only one platform. Nothing was certain.

Again. Were you expecting less than 100k for HZD? Were you expecting Switch hardware to be significantly over 113k?

I said it last week. I would have been disappointed of Horizon didnt outsell Zelda because the health of the PS4 in combinatiom with the marketing, genre and critical reception should have put it beyond what I think you can reasonably peg BOTW.

That isnt a bad thing. I dont get the system warrior shit over this.
 

Kill3r7

Member
I don't think we can compare Horizon to Gravity Rush or Tearaway, I think Sonys marketing spend assured us of that.

It's fantastic for the dev and the game in Ge real uts sold so well but it isn't exactly a surprise. It was a stick on to do big numbers.

The other way to look it at is that only 3 new console exclusive IPs (yes made up term to account for NMS and TF, sorry ethomaz) this gen have debut at over 100k. Marketing dollars does not necessarily equal sales. Horizon did incredibly well and it happens to be a fantastic game to boot. This level of performance is a relatively new trend and probably an outlier.
 

weekev

Banned
Fanboy wars aside, this was one of the greatest weeks for gaming ever. A new IP which was a breath of fresh air and an old stalwart getting a complete makeover in a breath of the Wild. Great time to be gaming.
 
It's by no means a stretch of the imagination to think that Zelda (Switch + Wii U) would outsell Horizon.

It's also not a stretch to have predicted it going the other way, as happened in the final shakedown. It's also not a stretch to ignore Zelda comparisons completely and in and of itself predict that Horizon was going to be one of Sony's best ever new IP launches (or just launches in general).

Horizon did great, I don't see the need to aggrandise its debut by promoting some underdog story around it.
 
It's also not a stretch to have predicted it going the other way, as happened in the final shakedown. It's also not a stretch to ignore Zelda comparisons completely and in and of itself predict that Horizon was going to be one of Sony's best ever new IP launches (or just launches in general).

Horizon did great, I don't see the need to aggrandise its debut by promoting some underdog story around it.

And hey, I'm not disagreeing with any of that.
 
I was just looking up the data:

Uncharted 4: 192k
No Man's Sky (not a Sony IP but I'll include it): ~115k
Infamous: Second Son: ~70k
TLG: >23k
Bloodborne: ~43k
Ratchet & Clank: 38k
Order 1886: 39k
Nathan Drake Collection: 39k

Looking at this I am pretty comfortable with >100k

Yes, install base matters but not so much for the launch comparison of Zelda vs. Horizon.

A launch game is always at a disadvantage vs an existing userbsse because it has to rely on the launch not sucking. The hardware has to be marketable and on point on addition to the software.

Zelda is expected to be a near 1.0 attach ratio for the Switch so it's bound to sell near or close to the number of Switch's shipped/sold.

Software attach rate of 1 is not reaistic. 70-80% is the absolute high end.

That means comparatively, the bar that Horizon has to outsell Zelda gets higher depending on how much Switch was shipped (we know now it was about 80k).

I don't agree with this for the premise stated above.

It's by no means a stretch of the imagination to think that Zelda (Switch + Wii U) would outsell Horizon. As to your last line, no, it's not. You yourself said, "were people expecting less than 100k for Horizon?"

Okay. I will concede the average person should not of expected it. If you follow sales I dont think this was a hard call though.

I also agree with the poster above that removing Zelda launch week I still think Horizon had all the makings of a big game with a great launch.
 
Looking at this I am pretty comfortable with >100k

A launch game is always at a disadvantage vs an existing userbsse because it has to rely on the launch not sucking. The hardware has to be marketable and on point on addition to the software.

Software attach rate of 1 is not reaistic. 70-80% is the absolute high end.

I don't agree with this for the premise stated above.

Okay. I will concede the average person should not of expected it. If you follow sales I dont think this was a hard call though.

I said near 1, not 1 itself. The attach rate for Zelda was and is expected to be extremely high.

And okay cool, you don't think it was a hard call and that's understandable. That makes you far better at predicting sales than me. Could you give me some rough figures for what you expect the launches of Nier Automata, Mass Effect and Ghost Recon to be? I'd love to adjust my personal expectations accordingly as I'm not sure what they'll open too.
 

Kill3r7

Member
On the MS side Minecraft is beating Halo Wars 2 in sales. I mean....

If they want big sales numbers then they should try to avoid making RTS games on consoles. I do wonder who made the call to buy Minecraft because that has proved to be an amazing decision for them.
 

vivekTO

Member
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