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|OT| Panzer Dragoon Remake |OT| It's alive and it's panzer-ing

Orta

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I'm going with the Nintendo Life review, the controls and aiming are horrible, absolutely horrible and have completely ruined the game for me.

Gutted.

*another review:

The controls feel sluggish and awkward, and although this can be corrected to a degree by fiddling with the options you now have to be much more precise with locking onto targets, which is frustrating with smaller enemies and not how it worked in the original. Controlling the dragon is even worse as it now bounces up and down as it flies, and the wings get in the way a lot more when trying to aim. Avoid incoming projectiles is also much harder, as your dragon bobbles around the screen and it becomes almost impossible to predict whether something will hit you or not.
 
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Kacho

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Thanks for the thread. Word of mouth seems poor but I’ll still check it out. Not sure when though since AC just dropped.
 

Saberyoko

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Wow wow wow, hold your horses. This thing already launched? Good heavens, I even forgot about the date.

Gonna check some gameplay videos and see if its good. If the controls are really bad, then thats a damn shame.
 
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Orta

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I hope there will be a decent mouse and keyboard setup for the pc version but I'm not holding my breath seeing as they fucked up such a blatantly simple method on a controller.

The biggest kick in the teeth is Nintendo's absolute refusal to entertain any notion of a refund, the tight fisted cunts. €25 wasted.
 

Al3x1s

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Just went to look at some footage and already don't like the intro showing the first dragon rider as clearly human (ok I guess he could just be very humanoid like Azel) when it was't confirmed if he was a drone instead previously.
 
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Komatsu

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Just went to look at some footage and already don't like the intro showing the first dragon rider as clearly human (ok I guess he could just be very humanoid like Azel) when it was't confirmed if he was a drone instead previously.
There's no reason why a drone couldn't look human.
Orta is a drone herself
and looks very much human.
 

Al3x1s

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There's no reason why a drone couldn't look human.
Orta is a drone herself
and looks very much human.
She's also kinda sorta super unique and one of a kind, as was Azel before her. Also before this stuff (and not counting Mini and the Tiger game) Orta was the worst PD had to show, I don't consider it canon but a fanfic with some good elements (like the story from the imperial soldier's POV) >_>
 
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Shifty1897

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Hopefully they patch the dragon bobbing, wings getting in the way of aiming, crosshairs and the controls.

Patching those four wouldn't be quite as hard and doing that would dramatically improve the game. Honestly the graphics don't bother me at all.
 

Pansy

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I've been tuning in to the Forever Entertainment discord server regarding this game's development. There are many issues that do need to be addressed with the gameplay, but they've been very responsive regarding the possibility of creating bug fixes and such. We'll see where this flies.
 

Kazza

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The game looks really good. For stage one, even though I like what they did with it, I can still understand those who prefer the more minimalist style of the original. For the rest of the stages however, the remake looks much better, imo. While the VDP2 magic works well for displaying a boundless ocean in Stage 1, it's a lot less convincing when being used to draw the canopy in Stage 5 (although still impressive for 1995). The remake looks like how the original was meant to be, sans technical limitations. Episode 6 has a lot more going on in the remake too.

The lack of the remixed soundtrack (it will be patched in a little later) does make it seem the game was rushed out for the Nintendo Direct, but it looks quite polished aside from that. The aim always being in front of all of graphics (including the dragon) seems like a deliberate choice, but they hopefully will include a "traditional" option for purists. The only worrying thing for me is some people mentioning that the targeting seems a little slow, so I hope the can increase the speed on that.

SLX posted what seems to be a pretty fair and objective review:



I'm convinced and will definitely be buying it as soon as it is released on Steam
 

Kazza

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Here's a review of the original from Mean Machines Sega magazine back in May 1995:




...........................................................................


With a 6 page spread and 93% score, it's fair to say they liked it! The parts they praise are the same aspect fans of the series tend to emphasise today: the atmosphere, the impressive graphics (for the time) and the satisfying feeling from painting targets and letting fly with the lasers (which is why it's so important that the Remake team reduce any lag). One surprising omission is the general lack of praise for the soundtrack, the "background music" merely being "suitably dramatic".
 
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cireza

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I completed the game in Normal and Hard and the controls are fine honestly. These complaints are way exaggerated.

When moving the camera, the camera actually turns upon releasing the button. So if you hold it, it won't turn immediately.

It does feel a bit heavier, but not that much. People need to replay the original. It ran at 20fps on Saturn, it was not a smooth experience, and aiming wasn't perfect at all. Zwei is the one that nailed everything with its stable 30fps (on a CRT, which is way better than on LCD) and gameplay wise it was refined and more precise, as well as having a better level-design with more variety.


Colors are extremely saturated and this is the main problem. It was already a problem when they unveiled the game, everyone told them "it looks a bit bad, too much contrast", and they said they would add filters... But I only see the filters in photo mode, and they don't really solve the problem anyway.

To me, they failed at listening to the feedback on this point. The game does not respect the original art direction color wise, and that's a big fail.
 
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Kazza

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In this image from the OP, reflections are visible on the water. This makes me think that maybe a lot of the complaints about reflections are due to the switch version?

Maybe I should hold off for the One X version? I wonder how long the exclusivity is for.
I'm looking forward to the PC version, not only for the extra reflections, but also for the 60 fps gameplay. That said, for a linear rail-shooter, they probably should have been able to achieve 60 fps, even on the Switch.
 

Rock And Roll

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I beat it and also believe the criticisms to be a bit exaggerated. The controls aren't as bad as people claim (the bouncing dragon is not as disorienting as they have been made out to be), the sensitivity takes a bit of getting used to but it's not bad (that being said options would be nice).

Switching to left or your right with the wing getting in your way is annoying, but the right joystick is a camera and if you pull back on it, the camera zooms out. Sometimes the camera is set further out and other times it is pulled in right on the dragon, don't know why it does this but if that wing is getting in the way, just zoom out. Not the end of the world, just a minor annoyance.

I'm fine with the art style and choices they made. I think when people go on about reflections in the water (which see still there) and too many things added to the environment, it would actually be a product of technical limitations at the time. If the tech was available I'm sure Team Andromeda would have loved to fill out the levels with more stuff but they couldn't, so instead the worked within the limitations and did small things like reflections in water to add to the immersion.

I think a 6/10 is fair. There are a lot of overlooked things the Devs should have done, hopefully they get patched in but at the moment all the minor details really bring the game down. But a 6/10 isn't a horrible score by my standards, it just means it's a good game but not going to set the world on fire. Hell I'd probably give the original PD a 7/10, it was definitely surpassed pretty easily by everything that came after it.

I hope people here give it a try, I would love to see more PD games in the future.
 

Saberyoko

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I saw some videos...they weren't kidding.

Seems like the flap of big wings indeed bothers the vision, alongside the overall body of the dragon. Not sure about the controls, but I understand the concerning. Maybe they were expecting something better than what used to be? Sounds like a legitime complain to me.

Gonna wait and watch more videos and see if it holds up. Only time will tell.
 

Enjay

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I'm looking forward to the PC version, not only for the extra reflections, but also for the 60 fps gameplay. That said, for a linear rail-shooter, they probably should have been able to achieve 60 fps, even on the Switch.
wtf even the sega saturn version hit 60fps IIRC with the use of a (relic) secret code.
 

Al3x1s

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The Saturn code was to hit 30 fps cos natively it ran worse but at the time with their tech when they had the performance breakthrough they couldn't rework the game to be 30fps so they made it a cheat option that actually sped up the game speed to increase the fps (and made it so the music tracks synced to each level's length didn't get the chance to finish, lol). Zwei both looked way better and ran at 30 fps natively in gameplay with the proper speed and also had 60fps in-engine cut scenes and a widescreen mode too. Still, this isn't the original game obviously. Remake. Irrelevant.

Sadly the new art style is a bland caricature of the original and they somehow botched the feel of the dragon's movement and controls going by most of the reviews. Just emulate the Saturn trilogy on SSF/Mednafen/Beetle (or skip the first game if you can't handle low fps, Zwei was way better).
 
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RAIDEN1

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If it ain't broke why fix it? The controls I mean, and so in some respects you are better of getting the unlocked version from Panzer Dragoon Orta on Xbox One et all, rather than this version which doesn't provide anything new from that 2003 release....unbelievable..
 

cireza

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Sadly the new art style is a bland caricature of the original and they somehow botched the feel of the dragon's movement and controls going by most of the reviews.
This is a bit harsh honestly. People who love Panzer Dragoon should be happy with this remake. Not great, but still pretty good in many aspects. The colors are not great this is for sure, but otherwise they did a good job at updating all stages and bosses, and I had absolutely no issues with the dragon and its movement. The dragon really isn't a problem at all for visibility, I really don't understand this complaint.

People, if you love Panzer Dragoon and want to see more of it, you are not supporting a shitty game by buying this. You are actually encouraging a developer (probably passionate and still unknown in the landscape) to improve on the sequel. My personal belief is that it should be supported.

What matters is for you to make your own decisions as you see fit and be satisfied with what happens in the future according to your decisions.

They absolute need to put this on all consoles. We must stop with this stupid exclusivity for third party games already. Give the game an opportunity to be a real success by reaching ALL fans scattered on all consoles.
 
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Rock And Roll

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People, if you love Panzer Dragoon and want to see more of it, you are not supporting a shitty game by buying this. You are actually encouraging a developer (probably passionate and still unknown in the landscape) to improve on the sequel. My personal belief is that it should be supported.
This is my biggest concern with the wave of negativity this game has generated for some reason. If no one supports it why would they remake Zwei or Saga? Thanks for summing up the situation so perfectly.
 

Andyliini

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Well, I just went and preordered the Special Edition from Limited Run Games, right out of the blue. I have never played Panzer Dragoon, but I like to try new things with games.
 
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JunkerWoland

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After watching several videos (and putting aside nitpicks and other concerns from existing impressions), I just can't get past the visual direction of this game, both in color choice and overall design. The better decision in this case may have been to let the studio make a new, budget entry in the series, instead of a remake. Hopefully this does well enough for those who want to see this developer handle Zwei, but I have to pass on this current title.
 
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Naked Lunch

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Why did they give one of the most legendary franchises in gaming history to some no name dev? I mean what the actual fuck? Panzer Orta from the early 2000's looks, runs, and plays better than this abomination.

Im not buying it just because. They fucked up not taking it seriously in the first place.
Panzer Dragoon deserves better.
 

Azelover

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She's also kinda sorta super unique and one of a kind, as was Azel before her. Also before this stuff (and not counting Mini and the Tiger game) Orta was the worst PD had to show, I don't consider it canon but a fanfic with some good elements (like the story from the imperial soldier's POV) >_>
Yeah, they tried to make Orta more commercial. But it still sold horribly.

Zwei is the best one of the shooters, and Saga is the best game overall. Heck, I think it's one of the best games ever period.
 
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~Fake

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Why did they give one of the most legendary franchises in gaming history to some no name dev? I mean what the actual fuck? Panzer Orta from the early 2000's looks, runs, and plays better than this abomination.

Im not buying it just because. They fucked up not taking it seriously in the first place.
Panzer Dragoon deserves better.

Hope they don't screw Orta. One of the best Xbox games ever made.
 

Al3x1s

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I watched the SEGA Lord X video, there's way too much focus placed on how, obviously, the added polygon/texture detail is better than Saturn (duh, this isn't 1995) in order to excuse its shortcomings when to me it looks like a total miss (no, not just the colors and contrast) in terms of conveying the original art style. It looks like any amateur's technically passable but artistically inferior UE mod/remake rather than the same level of professional artists full of style and imagination that are now free from the Saturn's outdated specifications and able to realize the original vision exactly as they wished. It doesn't really resemble the mood and tone of the concept art or anything either. I had the same complaint with Orta, how the ancients' unique materials like the float engines and armors didn't look quite right and the dragon's basic form was quite frankly pure shit, but looking back now I suppose it did many things better than this Remake. And of course they should have made it play better than the original, it's a remake, not a port or remaster, saying that the 30 fps (or 60 or whatever on other versions) is better and that the original is now bad is silly, we did get Zwei after all on Saturn which refined everything so obviously it should have played more like that (even if they excluded the new berserk attack) in terms of the crosshair and dragon movement and of course the much improved camera, not even worse than the first game as some say it does (outside the frame rate). Or hell, it could even actually offer us a duology that takes the good bits of all past games to make the whole series equal, from Zwei's Berserk attacks to Orta's Saga-like dragon form switching and ability to speed up/slow down and run circles around the bosses to find weak points and avoid powerful attacks. They didn't get the bare minimum right and I'm to support this to get Zwei? They're already doing it so I doubt it will get cancelled but I have no hope for it. If it turns out good all the better but I originally was miffed when they first showed this yet gave them the benefit of the doubt and I was wrong to do that. Maybe they creators are fans, that's nice, maybe they really wanted and really tried, what I care for are the results and this looks like a bad move that potentially harms the series future when a different studio or level of SEGA support could have worked.
 
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So...should I wait to pick this up on GOG when that version becomes available? Because it sounds like opinion is mixed?

I mean, I really want a remaster or even remake of Saga, but only if the right team is on it. SEGA has the team internally, and they also have Atlus at their disposal, so I don't see why they couldn't do it as an internal effort especially if that would give them absolute control over the quality and put some serious (but reasonable) budget behind it.
 

Kazza

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I think Sega Lord X was pretty spot on when he wrote this:

Sometimes I wonder if Sega fans are just as self destructive as the old company itself. We clamor for classic content and rereleases, then either don’t buy them or bitch and moan about every aspect of it we don’t find absolutely to our liking.

Perhaps it’s because I’m older and try and find the good in things more than I did in my youth, but just seeing the responses to stuff like Streets of Rage 4, Panzer Dragoon Remake, and Sega Ages, makes me question why Sega even bothers to give us anything.

I’m not saying you need to like everything. You certainly don’t need to buy everything. If you have a poor opinion of a product, share it respectfully. But Jesus, the hateful, disillusioned, vitriolic, and combative responses to some of this content is downright shameful.
They’re video games folks. It’s ok to move on if you don’t like them without setting fire to the developers and fans that do. Shitting on other people’s parade is a past time I’ll never understand.

I think SoR4 will get a similar reaction to this remake, as will the House of the Dead and so on. It's hard for any developer, however how talented and dedicated, to compete with an idealised and very personal vision of a game someone has had in their head for the past 20-30 years. That is especially the case with Panzer. I think the relatively simple graphics of the game made it a little like a blank canvas that anyone could paint their own vision onto, meaning now that the devs have filled in the details people are getting upset that it doesn't match what their own imagination had created. It's like when people who read the book get upset at the TV adaptation - why don't the actors look exactly what I imagined in my head back when I read it!

I think the environments look great in this remake, but it's the enemies which show the biggest improvement. You can actually see what they are supposed to be now, rather than just seeing jumbled mess of pixels. Admittedly, that did give the original a somewhat impressionist and ethereal quality, and I suppose they could have tried to do a modern take on that, but I'm happy with what they produced here.

PC when?
 

~Fake

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I think Sega Lord X was pretty spot on when he wrote this:




I think SoR4 will get a similar reaction to this remake, as will the House of the Dead and so on.
Now you're hyperbole a little, no much than the guy you mention about 'bruh Sega fans are more destruictive'.
Dragons Trap get a decent amount of love because of his new art work, amount of video filter options, ability to change to the classic and how well he runs at every machine.
If SOTR4 maintain his artwork and add a bunch of filters, he'll fine.

SEGA is acting like Ubisoft when they theat Farcry 3 port like trash, just simple as that. I know this game could be a sucess if the company take more care. Its not about a game SEGA release, is more like about their legacy and fans expecting their history with the game to be respected. No hard science.
 
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Komatsu

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I think Sega Lord X was pretty spot on when he wrote this.
I agree with him. Which is one of the reasons I suspect Satomi and the rest of the SEGA leadership pretty much let third party publishers like Deep Silver and Forever Entertainment handle the release of the newer installments in some of their storied franchises.

Fortunately it is mostly a Western thing - I had the opportunity of attending a SEGA FES in Tokyo in the recent past and it gladdened my old heart to see how positive and future-thinking their fan base is back in Japan.

As for the gaming press: The double standards are glaring - it is shocking to me that PDR is getting lower scores than Star Fox Zero, an absolute garbage of an on-rails shooter. But then again, for whatever reason a good chunk of the American gaming press seems to have an axe to grind with SEGA. Guys, you won! SEGA is out of the running. Let us have our fun.
 
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KAOS

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This remake is a let down in it's sluggish controls and framerate. How could you get the lock on part of the game wrong? The feel and that pgr kudos sfx is a very important part of the game. It makes me appreciate the job the bc team at MS did with Panzer Dragoon Orta!!!
 
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Komatsu

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This remake is a let down in it's sluggish controls and framerate. How could you get the lock on part of the game wrong? The feel and that pgr kudos sfx is a very important part of the game. It makes me appreciate the job the bc team at MS did with Panzer Dragoon Orta!!!
I checked the FE discord and it seems like there'll be a patch coming.

PS: Thank you, kind soul who gifted me gold!
 

SirTerry-T

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I watched Maximilian Dood's playthrough, they even changed that gorgeous artwork that displays during the sublime staff roll music. You HAVE to have the pic of the dragon and rider by the camp fire, you just have to! :)


 

I Love Rock 'n' Roll

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To be fair, this remake should not be compared to the original (and dated but still great) Saturn version but rather to the Playstation 2 budget port. Any fan of the game should play this version on PS2 or modded PS3.


When it'll come to buy or not this remake, i'll wait for a PS or XBOX port or modds for the PC. But seriously, shame on SEGA.
 
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Dec 25, 2018
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I do want to support this myself but given I don't get much money and LRG charge $15 for Customs Fees, I can't really pay £45 for a game I may or may not like based on reviews. :/

I took the chance with SoR 4 because I love the series and I got eBay Money to offset it.

I wonder if I should wait until the final week to decide whether to get it or not.

Still not played Zwei yet (played PD via PDO and I own Saga).
 
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