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[HyperBitHero]

Hey everyone,

Back in 2014, I had a pretty controversial thread about the original The Last of Us and a video I made on its enemy AI where everyone got banned by the end. Fun times!
So for old time's sake, I thought I'd start another thread, this time regarding a video I just finished discussing how much they improved the combat encounters and interactions in the sequel.
I haven't seen any other video that discusses the nuances I do in this, so I think many of you will enjoy seeing things from this perspective.

Part 2 Did What The Last of Us Couldn't (Video)

Hope you enjoy, let me know your thoughts!

 

[N1tr0sOx1d3]

Looking forward to watching this after work

 

[Represent.]

Absolutely fantastic combat. The most polished in game history. As well as the most visceral. The moment to moment gameplay is fucking sublime

 

[Rick Monster]

Yeah, people hated TLOU2 for its story, but they shouldn't. If you don't have the time, patience or desire to learn how the story works then that's totally fine but don't expect the sharp edges to be filed down and have everything bubble wrapped for you. Staying true to Naughty Dog’s intentions is only right and proper. Developers shouldn't compromise their vision just to cater to gamers at all. If you don't like their game then simply don't buy it. End of story. The narrative is hardcore challenging. It is not for cookie bakers and cushion knitters. Make a sensible decision to not play a game you feel will be too progressively challenging or too much for you, instead of bitching and moaning about the "SJWs" like some other people do. These games don’t have to be for everyone.

 

[RJMacready73]

best fucking game i played since the first one, the combat was sublime.. the cunts really kept you on your toes and those whistling bastards.. fuck me, i always had to knock the boss fights down a difficulty notch cause im shite, no idea how cunts can play this game on the higher difficulties

 

[Monkeygourmet]

Will wait for the PS5 remaster.

hope ND adds 60fps and some extra RT, shits going to be so cash

 

[Jon Neu]

Hey everyone

Hiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!

If you don't have the time, patience or desire to learn how the story works then that's totally fine but don't expect the sharp edges to be filed down and have everything bubble wrapped for you.

It's another one of those dudes that somehow think TLOU2 story it's some kind of intrincate and complex thing that you have "to get".

Oh boy, I love this threads.

best fucking game i played since the first one, the combat was sublime.. the cunts really kept you on your toes and those whistling bastards.. fuck me, i always had to knock the boss fights down a difficulty notch cause im shite, no idea how cunts can play this game on the higher difficulties

The combat was indeed amazing. I hated those fucking dudes that can see you in the dark while you can't see them if they don't move.

The remaster with the 4K/60fps treatment + RT will be amazing. Hope they go the Miles Morales route and give a brand new DLC with it.

 

[Redlancet]

Yeah, people hated TLOU2 for its story, but they shouldn't. If you don't have the time, patience or desire to learn how the story works then that's totally fine but don't expect the sharp edges to be filed down and have everything bubble wrapped for you. Staying true to Naughty Dog’s intentions is only right and proper. Developers shouldn't compromise their vision just to cater to gamers at all. If you don't like their game then simply don't buy it. End of story. The narrative is hardcore challenging. It is not for cookie bakers and cushion knitters. Make a sensible decision to not play a game you feel will be too progressively challenging or too much for you, instead of bitching and moaning about the "SJWs" like some other people do. These games don’t have to be for everyone.

Fantastic response on of the best experiences this generation

 

[assurdum]

I have had fun with the gameplay. I can't deny that . But really, really hated how pretentious moralistic is the story in this game. I preferred a lot the first. The final battle for example is one of the more stupid grasp I seen in a vg personally. In the end, it still hurts too much to me how they landing the story.

 

[Clear]

Non design professionals always seem to miss how important "readability" is for mechanics. You cannot just plan for the to 5% of people skill or observation wise even if it is the right or properly realistic way of doing it.

You need to accommodate lower-skill players without making the system overall too dumb. For instance making throwing decoys 100% exploitable is a good thing in many ways because it establishes it as a reliable tactic for gaining advantage when going head-on needs to be somewhat unforgiving.

TLOU2's AI is, even on normal difficulty, so well put together that for most players combat is a chaotic affair. If you want to maintain advantage you really need to work at it, meaning that for many people its about lurching between panicked states making it feel less empowering. Which really makes sense in the story context, but also makes for less consistent bad-ass moments.

Games, cinematic style ones particularly, are generally more about illusion than accurate simulation. So what makes the most sense in a design context is having a set of mechanics and behaviors that reinforce the story more than doing everything. I suspect the "balance of power" system was coded, but never used because basically it wouldn't be much fun if the last enemy in a group always tried to hide from you.

Firstly because it'd lose all momentum at the end of large encounters, and secondly because it'd set up a scenario where a casual player who having struggled their way through the group could end up getting sucker-punched at the very last. That'd be seriously aggravating.

Anyway, good video on the whole and a fine showcase of quite how next-level the action, animation and visuals are in TLOU2's combat.

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

Hiiiiiiiiiiiii!!!



It's another one of those dudes that somehow think TLOU2 story it's some kind of intrincate and complex thing that you have "to get".

Oh boy, I love this threads.




The combat was indeed amazing. I hated those fucking dudes that can see you in the dark while you can't see them if they don't move.

The remaster with the 4K/60fps treatment + RT will be amazing. Hope they go the Miles Morales route and give a brand new DLC with it.

Like clockwork, i expected you to be here and you didn't disappoint, got my popcorn ready for the usual round of goal post moving, gonna be such great work out!

 

[Enzo88]

Yeah, people hated TLOU2 for its story, but they shouldn't. If you don't have the time, patience or desire to learn how the story works then that's totally fine but don't expect the sharp edges to be filed down and have everything bubble wrapped for you. Staying true to Naughty Dog’s intentions is only right and proper. Developers shouldn't compromise their vision just to cater to gamers at all. If you don't like their game then simply don't buy it. End of story. The narrative is hardcore challenging. It is not for cookie bakers and cushion knitters. Make a sensible decision to not play a game you feel will be too progressively challenging or too much for you, instead of bitching and moaning about the "SJWs" like some other people do. These games don’t have to be for everyone.

Please....
Stop trying to make it look like this game is too deep for the average person.
I don`t have any issue with the themes the game touches, but the pacing of the game/story is all over the place and some character`s motivations and reactions are not convincing at all in my opinion.

And this has nothing to do with "patience/desire", but I guess I "shouldn`t" have this opinion?

How dare I? XD

Ps: combat is great, but I think MGS5 is still superior in this regard and the level design/enemies and weapons variety are not good enough to sustain the 25 plus hours the game lasts. There are just not enough ideas, the game was dragging out for me during the last 4-5 hours gameplay wise.

 

[TintoConCasera]

TLOU2 is, simply put, boring as fuck.

Slow, bad pacing, same mechanics as it's predecessor and bad, senseless writing.

 

[Jon Neu]

Like clockwork, i expected you to be here and you didn't disappoint, got my popcorn ready for the usual round of goal post moving, gonna be such great work out!

I'm already anxious of you pointing out that magical goal post moving!!

Ps: combat is great, but I think MGS5 is still superior in this regard and the level design is not clever enough to sustain the 25 plus hours the game lasts.

MGS5 combat is great, but the level design of the game is not that great and the combat doesn't have the same tension as TLOU2.

TLOU2 is, simply put, boring as fuck.

Slow, bad pacing, same mechanics as it's predecessor and bad, senseless writing.

The problem of TLOU2 is that the story and most of the characters are a complete drag when they should be the perfect complement to the great gameplay. Half the game it's a masterpiece, the other half it's Kotaku the movie. And that's a big problem for a "cinematic experience".

Still, the graphics and animations are amazing and the gameplay it's fun, atmospheric, rewarding and complex enough.

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

TLOU2 is, simply put, boring as fuck.

Slow, bad pacing, same mechanics as it's predecessor and bad, senseless writing.

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Spoiler

Both fun games but i hope you get the irony of your post.

 

[Rick Monster]

TLOU2 is the Dark Souls of stories. So challenging to the snowflake gamer psyche that they even - snort - created a PETITION to DEMAND that Naughty Dog change the game's narrative because their precious protagonist was killed. Boo fucking hoo. How DARE they kill our white man, our beautiful stand-in. What a BETRAYAL it was. Man up, you pussies.

 

[TintoConCasera]

The problem of TLOU2 is that the story and most of the characters are a complete drag when they should be the perfect complement to the great gameplay. Half the game it's a masterpiece, the other half it's Kotaku the movie. And that's a big problem for a "cinematic experience".

Still, the graphics and animations are amazing and the gameplay it's fun, atmospheric, rewarding and complex enough.

Agree. Gameplay wasn't bad (got a bit sick of perforing people's neck with a kniefe tho) but it had it's shinning moments.

But the story was so, so boring to me that even the gameplay couldn't compensate for that.

 

[Enzo88]

TLOU2 is the Dark Souls of stories. So challenging to the snowflake gamer psyche that they even - snort - created a PETITION to DEMAND that Naughty Dog change the game's narrative because their precious protagonist was killed. Boo fucking hoo. How DARE they kill our white man, our beautiful stand-in. What a BETRAYAL it was. Man up, you pussies.

Is this actually the main issues people had with the story?
Cause I liked that choice.

 

[TintoConCasera]

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Spoiler

Both fun games but i hope you get the irony of your post.

But I hate SMT IV:A!

Same game recicled and they fucked up all the atmosphere of the first one with too much anime tropes.

 

[Enzo88]

MGS5 combat is great, but the level design of the game is not that great and the combat doesn't have the same tension as TLOU2.

Agreed on the level design, but what you can do with weapons/gadgets is pretty impressive, so many options.

 

[Jon Neu]

TLOU2 is the Dark Souls of stories. So challenging to the snowflake gamer psyche that they even - snort - created a PETITION to DEMAND that Naughty Dog change the game's narrative because their precious protagonist was killed. Boo fucking hoo. How DARE they kill our white man, our beautiful stand-in. What a BETRAYAL it was. Man up, you pussies.

How can I not love this threads?

First page already delivering, baby!

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

But I hate SMT IV:A!

Same game recicled and they fucked up all the atmosphere of the first one with too much anime tropes.

4A is fantastic you heathen!

Spoiler

I bet you killed your friends, monster!

 

[TintoConCasera]

4A is fantastic you heathen!

Spoiler

I bet you killed your friends, monster!

Hahaha well yeah, maybe "hate" is too much. I enjoyed my time with the game, but playing it right after IV was a bit disappointing. I really like the tone of IV and I felt IV:A was too happy and had too many nice vibes, specially considering the setting.

Spoiler

And I did both fights! But I went the kill Dagda route. I still have to finish the game tho, left it in what I think must be the final dungeon, (that trippy place you go with Flynn) but it was dragging a lot with some rehashed bosses and I ended up lefting the game there. Maybe one day I'll replay it and finish it, as I really liked some of the new mechanichs like the improved demon fusion.

 

[Kupfer]

I didn't expect to stretch my coffee over half an hour, but your video was so interesting that I had to keep watching it. It was refreshing, serving impression and your opinion, backed up with facts and video evidence, instead of a loud outcry about how the rest of the internet felt.
I have to admit, I didn't deal with TLOU as much as you did (1x TLOU, 1x Left Behind, 1x TLOU:R, 1x TLOU II), so I didn't notice much of the broken A.I. while playing and I found it less disturbing than it is shown in your videos, but after watching both of your TLOU videos, the A.I. in another TLOU 1 run would probably be very sobering.
Nevertheless I am looking forward to another TLOU II run on the PS5, because I have not seen and tried many things you have highlighted in your video in the game yet.
Thanks for your efforts and good work!

 

[HyperBitHero]

I didn't expect to stretch my coffee over half an hour, but your video was so interesting that I had to keep watching it. It was refreshing, serving impression and your opinion, backed up with facts and video evidence, instead of a loud outcry about how the rest of the internet felt.
I have to admit, I didn't deal with TLOU as much as you did (1x TLOU, 1x Left Behind, 1x TLOU:R, 1x TLOU II), so I didn't notice much of the broken A.I. while playing and I found it less disturbing than it is shown in your videos, but after watching both of your TLOU videos, the A.I. in another TLOU 1 run would probably be very sobering.
Nevertheless I am looking forward to another TLOU II run on the PS5, because I have not seen and tried many things you have highlighted in your video in the game yet.
Thanks for your efforts and good work!

Thank you, I love seeing that a video of mine could be this engaging. I really appreciate the sense of understanding I get from this post.

 

[Balducci30]

Storyline was eh. Gameplay was fantastic though.’

 

[HyperBitHero]

How can I not love this threads?

First page already delivering, baby!

Yeah, I can't tell if half of you are being ironic with some of these posts or not, lmao

 

[Dorohedoro]

Man they really bamboozled us with that TLoU1 2012 footage. The AI looked so much better, oh well, at least they delivered with the sequel. It's interesting how there were some kill animations in this vid I've never seen in any of my playthroughs of Part 2. And I could've sworn the seraphite enemies do investigate when they don't get a whistle in return... but I guess it's possible they just discovered a body. Btw the part you mentioned about taking an enemy's shotgun like the 2012 footage -- Abby can take one off an enemy and knock them out with it, as well as using an enemy's own pistol against them which was something out of John Wick.

Lol at the Uncharted 3 chad enemies tho.

 

[Maxwell Jacob Friedman]

prob best game I played this gen, and the bar was really fucking high as well. TLOUP2 was overall a better experience with amazing combat and a well driven plot with some pacing issues, but most naughty dog games have had those issues.

 

[Javthusiast]

Superb combat, fantastic story. My gotg.

 

[tassletine]

Yeah, people hated TLOU2 for its story, but they shouldn't. If you don't have the time, patience or desire to learn how the story works then that's totally fine but don't expect the sharp edges to be filed down and have everything bubble wrapped for you. Staying true to Naughty Dog’s intentions is only right and proper. Developers shouldn't compromise their vision just to cater to gamers at all. If you don't like their game then simply don't buy it. End of story. The narrative is hardcore challenging. It is not for cookie bakers and cushion knitters. Make a sensible decision to not play a game you feel will be too progressively challenging or too much for you, instead of bitching and moaning about the "SJWs" like some other people do. These games don’t have to be for everyone.

That's the usual arrogant excuse for this game. Personally I didn't find it challenging, I found it overwrought and repetitive to the point of boredom.

There was barely any story at all, more a soap opera, and if you think that particular story needed 30 hours to tell, you're wrong. It was mostly character work with dull characters.
It didn't have a bad narrative, just one that was embarrassingly wrapped up in it's own self importance.

 

[Valentino]

I hope ND announce something in December (majority of their games get announced this month) I haven't played the game since my 2nd run through but I think about it a lot. I just want to have some time away from it before I can fall back in that world again and dissect the whole game thoroughly perhaps on PS5 or some surprise new DLC/multiplayer. Truly one of the best and visually phenomenal game I've played

 

[Rean no Kiseki]

Yeah, I can't tell if half of you are being ironic with some of these posts or not, lmao

Jon Snow's our resident TLOUP2 hater and goal post moving champion, you won't get any where discussing the actual game with him so save your breath, sanity and time.

 

[Neff]

It's a terrific game and a dramatic improvement over the first in both gameplay and storytelling.

Stop trying to make it look like this game is too deep for the average person.

Anecdotally speaking I have seen countless incidents of people not understanding very obvious points in the story.

 

[Le Big Mac]

Yeah, people hated TLOU2 for its story, but they shouldn't. If you don't have the time, patience or desire to learn how the story works then that's totally fine but don't expect the sharp edges to be filed down and have everything bubble wrapped for you. Staying true to Naughty Dog’s intentions is only right and proper. Developers shouldn't compromise their vision just to cater to gamers at all. If you don't like their game then simply don't buy it. End of story. The narrative is hardcore challenging. It is not for cookie bakers and cushion knitters. Make a sensible decision to not play a game you feel will be too progressively challenging or too much for you, instead of bitching and moaning about the "SJWs" like some other people do. These games don’t have to be for everyone.

The story is hard core challenging?

I mean it's not, it's pretty obvious what the message and the thematic goal of the game is.

The problem is the games narrative is shitty (ie how the theme is communicated and the consistency) given how character decisions shift without any logical explanation or substantive reason.

I know a couple of threads ago someone mentioned it was asinine to compare this game to the last Jedi but honestly given how many times I've seen your and similar responses : >You hate the story because it's deep and you didn't understand it

I mean the discourse sounds eerily familiar.

On topic with the thread, the gunplay is spectacular altho the damage physics is stupid - firing a 9mil round into someone's leg wouldn't blow their leg off

 

[HyperBitHero]

Anecdotally speaking I have seen countless incidents of people not understanding very obvious points in the story.

I can understand having issues with a lot of the story, but yeah even a bunch of the comments I’m getting seem willfully ignorant about certain messages the game was intending the convey.

 

[Neff]

I just watched the video, it's an impressive dissection of the sequel's improvements. You can tell from the instant you start playing it that it's much closer to what they were trying to do in the first game. It's also a far, far more polished product over the original, which really was a buggy and inconsistent piece of crap at times, good as it was.

I've already been through part 2 three times since release (including a grounded run) but I suspect I'll be doing it again soon. Wonderful game.

 

[HyperBitHero]

I just watched the video, it's an impressive dissection of the sequel's improvements. You can tell from the instant you start playing it that it's much closer to what they were trying to do in the first game. It's also a far, far more polished product over the original, which really was a buggy and inconsistent piece of crap at times, good as it was.

I've already been through part 2 three times since release (including a grounded run) but I suspect I'll be doing it again soon. Wonderful game.

I finished recording this video before they added grounded into TLOU2, but how was that? I felt like I had to play on grounded in 1 to prove my points or else people would say it didn’t happen, but the opposite helped prove my points for the sequel, since it was to the game’s benefit for the impressive AI moments to be happening even on lower difficulties.

 

[Thirty7ven]

The combat is absolutely sublime. Best in class. You know it's gonna be good from the first moment you shoot a gun. And the accessibility options, OH MY GOD, more of this please. Having the choice to bump up the combat difficulty but still choose to have more resources available is incredible if you want a more action oriented play style.

And the story, I mean, I have 0 sympathy for those who felt letdown by it and argue the first one is better. It's such a superior piece of fiction writing that I can only shrug at those who wanted a more... let's say, commercial sequel to the first.

 

[DustQueen]

Made me hate lesbians even more?
Yeah. What an achievement

 

[INC]

Combat was great, but wasn't used to its fullest

the best part of TLoU2 was the hub City area, where u get a map, then they completely ditch that idea and go back to basic corridor gameplay again

such a waste

 

[Woggleman]

It's some of the best combat I have ever played.

As for the story I liked it but I understand why it was divisive. That being said some of the reactions towards it and the people involved with creating it shows that it is not only the left that practices cancel culture.

 

[HyperBitHero]

Combat was great, but wasn't used to its fullest

the best part of TLoU2 was the hub City area, where u get a map, then they completely ditch that idea and go back to basic corridor gameplay again

such a waste

I've also questioned this decision, especially seeing as that open city area only had infected encounters from what I remember. The other big one is not long after. It's less open but actually has humans and infected together. The one with the library and gas station. I'm going to assume they tested things and found that this was the best way to go for a series of human encounters all existing in the same environment. This way you wouldn't easily trigger several encounters at once, though I was still able to achieve this there. Some of the best ideas for combat encounters are in Abby's side of the story, but by that point, I was more burned out by having to go back in time and play through all the days again just to see the climax to a scene I was watching, so I was just trying to power through things.

 

[Psos]

Wow, I've played TLoU1 twice and I didn't see all of these AI bugs showed in the video.

 

[GrayFoxPL]

Hey everyone,

Back in 2014, I had a pretty controversial thread about the original The Last of Us and a video I made on its enemy AI where everyone got banned by the end. Fun times!
So for old time's sake, I thought I'd start another thread, this time regarding a video I just finished discussing how much they improved the combat encounters and interactions in the sequel.
I haven't seen any other video that discusses the nuances I do in this, so I think many of you will enjoy seeing things from this perspective.

Part 2 Did What The Last of Us Couldn't (Video)

Hope you enjoy, let me know your thoughts!

I didn't realize how dumb enemy AI was in the first game. I just don't remember much of it.

As for other things it's pretty amusing that some ppl are still falling for these scripted demo presentations.

 

[Neff]

I finished recording this video before they added grounded into TLOU2, but how was that?

It makes an already great game just about perfect in terms of the variables it tweaks, with imo the one exception being enemy alertness. They're way too good at spotting you, which kind of becomes a nuisance at times considering how bigger the areas are and how many more enemies you tend to face compared to the original. Everything else- supplies, damage, enemy aggression, enemy accuracy etc are all absolutely spot-on. It makes for a terrifically tense, stingy, intimidating game which is a lot of fun to tame. In future I suspect I'll continue to play on custom grounded and dial stealth down a notch.

 

[HyperBitHero]

It makes an already great game just about perfect in terms of the variables it tweaks, with imo the one exception being enemy alertness. They're way too good at spotting you, which kind of becomes a nuisance at times considering how bigger the areas are and how many more enemies you tend to face compared to the original. Everything else- supplies, damage, enemy aggression, enemy accuracy etc are all absolutely spot-on. It makes for a terrifically tense, stingy, intimidating game which is a lot of fun to tame. In future I suspect I'll continue to play on custom grounded and dial stealth down a notch.

Interesting, I was wondering if it removed listen mode like in the original, since it now plays a bigger role in knowing when dogs are tracking you.

 

[Neff]

Interesting, I was wondering if it removed listen mode like in the original, since it now plays a bigger role in knowing when dogs are tracking you.

It's gone in grounded, along with most of the UI. Listen mode is already heavily nerfed in TLoU2 compared to the first game, but like you say it has its uses, particularly when dealing with the dogs.

On grounded though, you've just got to be smart and remember where you've been.

 

[Games of Today]

I agree the combat was really sick in this game. I didn't mind the story at all, I just think it should have been played out in a different order with the flashbacks happening first with both characters and the BIG BIG SPOILER happening at the middle climax of the story. For sure, the best way to play the game is Custom difficulty with Grounded turned on everything accept friendly A.I., turn that to easy so when you have an A.I. partner they are just as aggressive as you are so they actually help in combat.

 

[zkorejo]

Combat was one of the biggest things that kept me going and not quit the game. It felt like a natural evolution of first part's gameplay.

Can't say the same for mission designs though. The last level design was outstanding. I just wish the game had that kind of level design to give the players freedom to play around the level from much earlier in the game.